Digital Piano for Jazz gigs

[loxley11]

Hi all,

 

It's been about 4 years since I regularly haunted the forums (thanks to grad school), so my knowledge of current gear is a bit rusty.

 

I'm looking for a very basic but good quality stage piano for jazz gigging. I'll stop by the music store later this week, but it looks like Yamaha, Roland, and maybe Korg is all I'll be able to get my hands on 'round these parts. I've checked out the major manufacturer's sites, so I know the specs/prices, but am curious what your opinions are for this particular setting. I don't have a laptop or any VST software, so virtual is out. All I'm trying to do is replace an acoustic piano/rhodes for live gigs. I use a Motif ES8 at home, but that sum'bitch weighs a ton in its case...

 

What I do need:

88 weighted keys with a decent action (or at least equivalent to the ES8, depending on your opinion of that keybed ; )

One good piano for solo or small group work, another for cutting through in a larger group.

A Rhodes would be nice.

As light as possible (given aforementioned weighted-88 requirement).

Basic reverb/EQ

 

What I don't need:

Any other sounds (organ, strings, etc).

Ability to layer, sample, sequence, any of that fun stuff.

Onboard speakers.

Lots of other onboard sound effects.

 

It looks like the pickings are from the usual suspects (Yamaha, Korg, Roland, Kurz) plus models by Casio, Nord, and apparently Kawai makes a stage piano too. Of course most of these have way more than this on them, but I think it's easier to decide once you know what's important and what's not. And used equipment is definitely an option.

 

Thanks for your help

Drew

 

[Josh Paxton]

The new Casio PX-5 has everything you need. It also has a few things you don't, though there aren't many boards out there that don't. It may be the lightest and most economical option that does what you want.

[Ekewaka]

You could also get good used deals on other Casio Privias as many are jumping over to the PX-5S one.

[Bobadohshe]

It's funny that the Privias get named here. I've had my PX3 for a couple years now and I've often thought it's just inferior in a couple ways to the CP33 that it replaced (when the CP was stolen). I was called to be the house pianist at this jazz jam in town for a couple weeks and the normal house guy uses as CP300. I wasn't sure if my Privia would cut it. Well it did. It sounded better than his rig. Might have had something to do with the amplification, but there you go. Now, we weren't playing ballads or super lush exposed stuff, but for the montuno based stuff and shredding jazz lines it sounded great.

 

Moral of the story: don't sleep on the Privias.

 

Not to mention it's the champion of lightweight.

[timwat]

Completely concur re: PX3. This doesn't happen at every gig, but I happened to play trio five or six times over the last two weeks, and at almost every gig a musician walked up in between sets to complement me on the piano sound.

 

Yes, downstream amplification absolutely makes or breaks it - but that's true of any DP. Even had another piano player walk up and say the reason he walked in was from outside, he mistook it for an actual acoustic grand and didn't know the venue had bought one. They haven't.

[Dave Ferris]

My favorite, as many know all too well here, is the Yamaha CP5. For me it has the most responsive action for single line solos, in addition to having the nuances required for chords on Ballads & comping. For the straight ahead, acoustic based jazz idiom, it's the best acoustic piano substitution out of anything currently available imo... The sound and feel are always *right*-perfectly even up and down in all the registers. It's been often criticized the last 3 years since its inception, mainly for its user interface. But that aside, I feel it's the most significant and important release in a portable stage DP to ever come down the road.

 

Of course it's not the lightest at 55lbs., but still much easier then your ES8 to schlep around. Plus it sounds and plays way better...no comparison whatsoever.

 

My lightweight compromise has been the Nord Piano 2. Overall way less inspiring for me to play, but the sound, live, can be excellent (depending on room acoustics) and more forward or present then the CP5.

 

However, I think in this day and age, brighter and "more in your face" is often considered "better" then a more mellow or softer hue....like the CP5.

 

I'll just say for me, after using the Nord Piano 88 from 11/11 to 5/12 and currently the NP2 since 6/12, I still prefer the softer timbre of the CP5 CF Grand to the brighter, often not so smooth character of the Nord's pianos.

 

The only thing I've played live in that 1K price point/ lighter weight area that I've liked has been either the Yamaha CP33 or P155. A half step up class wise and price point from those two- the Yamaha CP50. I think that's an excellent choice.

 

And yes as Bobby & Tim mentioned, speakers and the rest of your "front end" chain go a long way in determining the sonic end result of all this..

[LX88]

I had to walk away from the Casios I have played. The acoustic piano sound just wasn't there for me. I hope for better things from the PX5S but I just couldn't live with some of the tones on the PX 350.

 

Ditto for the Nord piano. I share a lot the same views as the above post . I tend to like Yamaha ( the Cp-5 and the CP-33). The problem is,the Cp-5 is damn heavy and the CP-33 does not have a usable Rhodes, and is somewhat heavy as well.

 

I came up with another solution by pure luck. A local player had a Roland RD 300GX that he just could not sell on Craigslist. He reduced it down to a stupid price ( 600 dollars) and it was in excellent nearly new condition.

 

I have to say that I do like the acoustic sample ( Superior Grand ) that the 300 GX has. I have come to appreciate and understand it over time. The bass is solid and the mid range has a warm quality to it, with almost nothing not to like. It's maybe a little warmer sounding than the CP33 ,but similar in many ways. It also has a very good , warm sounding Rhodes and it weighs a managable 35 pounds.

 

I have A/B ed it against the CP33,the Nord piano , the new Roland supernatural 700 NX and the 300 NX and for the the only thing that trumps it might still be the CP-5.

 

These are becoming a bit hard to find though. But for something that has manageable weight, and good acoustic and electric pianos I am still sticking with it.

 

I hope to see Yamaha coming out with something good in a lighter weight class. Till then, its the RD 300 GX for me.

[Dana.]

I have A/B ed it against the CP33,the Nord piano , the new Roland supernatural 700 NX and the 300 NX and for the the only thing that trumps it might still be the CP-5.

Which Nord piano sound(s) were you comparing it to? And what don't you like about Nord's piano sounds in general?

[Adan]

Seems like anyone in the market for a lightweight weighted 88 would owe it to themself to check out the PX-5.

 

I have a Yamaha P105 and like it a lot. The action feels good to me, the piano sounds are excellent, and the rhodes is useable though not super inspiring. It's my jazz axe.

 

Like Ferris, I think the CP5 is the gold standard, but I wouldn't haul it around.

[ADino]

Agree on the CP5 and the CP50..had them both, loved them both.

If the poster is looking for "just" AP and roads, mabey the CP1 if you can swing it.

[LX88]

I only have considered the Nord piano, and I have played both the newer and older versions. It's not for me. The only thing I really remember about it was thinking "I don't have to have this" ( based on how it sounded), and I am not going to pay that kind of money for something I don't need.

 

As I said above,the RD 300 GX ( and probably the FP-4) sound very similar to the Yamaha CP-33, which I am very used to hearing because I have a Yamaha Nocturne at home. For whatever reason, I am very used to hearing Yamaha stuff as a reference.

 

I also have come close to considering the Yamaha P-95 and 105. For some reason I prefer the 95.

 

I actually could live with the action, but its the lack of a usable Rhodes that bugs me the most.

 

One time I miked the speakers of a P-95 and got good results through a relatively good P/A. set up.

 

Given a choice of the recent Casios or a P-95, or 105 I would still go with Yamaha. They seem to know piano.

[Dana.]

I only have considered the Nord piano, and I have played both the newer and older versions. It's not for me.

But why? I'll ask again: what is it exactly that you didn't like about the Nord Piano? Sounds? Action? What?

[NeedMoreBass]

You should consider the Casio PX-5S. It meets the criteria you're looking for. I got mine 2 days ago and am very pleased with it.

[The Real MC]

I'm a piano player, and I've been using my Yamaha P-90 for jazz. Compact, low profile, nice action, and sounds good.

 

If you want a useable Rhodes, the P-120 has much better Rhodes but slightly heavier with onboard speakers.

[M_G]

if you have the chance then check out the kawai

es7 or mp6

great action, great sound, not too heavy....

 

[Dave Ferris]

I don't want to be too negative on this PX-5 since I haven't played it yet, but I made it a point to play the PX-350 yesterday at the GC for a few minutes with phones. And while it's not terrible, I can honestly say it wouldn't work for me for what I'd need it to do.

 

I don't know how the core piano sound and action differs on the PX-5, if at all, I haven't really been following all the threads on it.

 

I made sure to play the P155 and CP33 yesterday at the GC with the PX-350 sandwiched in the middle for comparison sake, and highly preferred the 2 Yamahas with the same phones I listened to the Casio with..

 

Again though, if it were me, I'd suck it up on the extra 5-6 lbs. (over the P155/CP33) of the CP50 and go with that over any of the last three.

[LX88]

Since I am being asked again about the Nord, it was the sound that was the deal breaker regarding my consideration of actually buying one.

 

The best explanation I can give was that I did not agree with their concept of string resonance.It had to do with the harmonics within the tones, or the overtones. Just not what I prefer.

 

Some people are looking for an instrument that will "cut through the mix".This is the last thing I want.

 

When I heard the Joe Jackson clips that were out recently, I got the same impression. Not my bag, though it may be yours. But that's basically the Nord sound, love it or leave it.

 

 

[Ekewaka]

Pretty much the outcome of threads like this is that everyone has their preferences about sound -- the best you could do is either visit a music shop with plenty of gear such as GC or ask to try out fellow keyboard players' gear. Or go to gigs and find out how various keyboards sound in real life.

[NeedMoreBass]

I don't want to be too negative on this PX-5 since I haven't played it yet, but I made it a point to play the PX-350 yesterday at the GC for a few minutes with phones. And while it's not terrible, I can honestly say it wouldn't work for me for what I'd need it to do.

 

I don't know how the core piano sound and action differs on the PX-5, if at all, I haven't really been following all the threads on it.

 

I made sure to play the P155 and CP33 yesterday at the GC with the PX-350 sandwiched in the middle for comparison sake, and highly preferred the 2 Yamahas.

 

Again though, if it were me, I'd suck it up on the extra 5-6 lbs. (over the P155/CP33) of the CP50 and go with that over any of the last three.

 

Someone looking also might want to check out the 2 new Rolands ..FP-80 & 50, with the speakers. There's a massive thread on them over at pianoworld

 

Or wait till late summer for the Kurzweil Artis. Although regarding that-I would've felt better if they had used the Fatar TP40L on the PC3X/K8/LE3 as opposed to the TP-100. I played the the SP4-8 yesterday next to the PCLE8 , and the LE8 was much more to my liking. Perhaps their "new" sample interacts better with the action then on the SP4-8...if not, that TP-100 action would be a deal breaker for me. I guess I'll see.

 

OP's criteria included "As light as possible". The PX-5S weighs 24 lbs!! Also listening from the headphone jack does not give an accurate representation of the sound. There are better sounding DP's, but the Casio is no slouch.

 

[video:youtube]

[Dana.]

When I heard the Joe Jackson clips that were out recently, I got the same impression. Not my bag, though it may be yours. But that's basically the Nord sound, love it or leave it.

I saw Joe last year and went on record on KC saying it was the best digital piano sound I've ever heard live. Seems our bags are different.

[16251]

I had to walk away from the Casios I have played. The acoustic piano sound just wasn't there for me. I hope for better things from the PX5S but I just couldn't live with some of the tones on the PX 350.

 

Ditto for the Nord piano. I share a lot the same views as the above post . I tend to like Yamaha ( the Cp-5 and the CP-33). The problem is,the Cp-5 is damn heavy and the CP-33 does not have a usable Rhodes, and is somewhat heavy as well.

 

I came up with another solution by pure luck. A local player had a Roland RD 300GX that he just could not sell on Craigslist. He reduced it down to a stupid price ( 600 dollars) and it was in excellent nearly new condition.

 

I have to say that I do like the acoustic sample ( Superior Grand ) that the 300 GX has. I have come to appreciate and understand it over time. The bass is solid and the mid range has a warm quality to it, with almost nothing not to like. It's maybe a little warmer sounding than the CP33 ,but similar in many ways. It also has a very good , warm sounding Rhodes and it weighs a managable 35 pounds.

 

I have A/B ed it against the CP33,the Nord piano , the new Roland supernatural 700 NX and the 300 NX and for the the only thing that trumps it might still be the CP-5.

 

These are becoming a bit hard to find though. But for something that has manageable weight, and good acoustic and electric pianos I am still sticking with it.

 

I hope to see Yamaha coming out with something good in a lighter weight class. Till then, its the RD 300 GX for me.

IMO - 300 GX/FP-4 has best action of all gigging DP's I've owned.

[LX88]

Agreed... I love the RD300GX action.

 

It is a little more forgiving than the CP-33 standard Yamaha action.

 

As I recall, the FP4 has the same Rhodes and AP as the RD300GX. So this might be an option, there might be a few FP-4 's out there at reasonably good used prices.

 

 

[Ekewaka]

To be fair, I purchased a PX-5S without even testing it: personally I'm not so picky about key beds or final piano sounds and the feature set sounded crazy-good. But it depends on a person if they do such ad hoc purchases or not.

 

So far it's been fun using this Casio.

[Jazz+]

I can't imagine not wanting onboard speakers for jazz gigs...

[16251]

Agreed... I love the RD300GX action.

 

It is a little more forgiving than the CP-33 standard Yamaha action.

 

As I recall, the FP4 has the same Rhodes and AP as the RD300GX. So this might be an option, there might be a few FP-4 's out there at reasonably good used prices.

 

I like having the internal speakers of FP-4. Also a friend of mine found a used one for $600 in near new condition, so they're out there (or were.)

[Jazz+]

I own the Roland FP-4 and the FP-4F and I have witnessed a decline in quality from the FP-4 to the FP-4F. Specifically, the piano clarity, velocity response, and action have all gotten worse.

 

I expect no improvement with the FP-50 since Roland is still stuck in the Super Natural samples, with jumpy velocity scales, and sluggish actions. The previous "Superior Grand" samples used in the FP-4, RD-700S, and RD300GX, had better presence for live performances than the more recent N series models.

[Ekewaka]

I can't imagine not wanting onboard speakers for jazz gigs...

 

Depends. Some of the built-in speakers' sound quality are not fun listening to.

[Dana.]

Roland is still stuck in the Super Natural samples, with jumpy velocity scales, and sluggish actions.

I thought the SuperNATURAL® technology was supposed to provide seamless, undetectable velocity switching. In fact, I recall a review of the 700NX in which Jim Aikin said he couldn't hear any. :idk

 

I agree about the action. It plays like it's broken -- the keys don't return fast enough, making smooth, dynamic playing very difficult.

[Jazz+]

Maybe it sounds seamless. But the touch dynamic response is too jumpy on the FP-4F and the RD-700NX. For example, with the default setting it can jump from from mp to ff to easily. It's not like a good concert piano's response. I have to play with a very restrained touch technique to manage dynamic control.

[Jazz+]

I can't imagine not wanting onboard speakers for jazz gigs...

 

Depends. Some of the built-in speakers' sound quality are not fun listening to.

 

Which ones?

On-board speaker sound quality is an issue for me when I am playing digital piano live. I am grateful to have them, regardless of the quality. Having a stereo field aimed at my head is what I like to help stay focused. I hate it when my only piano sound comes from "over there" (a remote speaker). I often feel detached and distracted from what I am playing in those situations.