QSC K12 - Review

[Tonysounds]

Just got back from GC, tried out a K12. Sounds great. The line level preamp stage is woefully underpowered for the Nord Electro. Very disappointing

 

Rather, the Electros output is again to be shown to be woefully inadequate. I use the line level stage sometimes with just my S90es, no problems.

[davinwv]

No issues from my Profire 610 and Firewire Solo interfaces either. If anything, the Firewire Solo comes in a bit too hot!

[zephonic]

Just got back from GC, tried out a K12. Sounds great. The line level preamp stage is woefully underpowered for the Nord Electro. Very disappointing

 

Rather, the Electros output is again to be shown to be woefully inadequate. I use the line level stage sometimes with just my S90es, no problems.

 

I noticed that with my Nordleads 1&2 as well. Low output, that is.

 

[kanker.]

Just got back from GC, tried out a K12. Sounds great. The line level preamp stage is woefully underpowered for the Nord Electro. Very disappointing

 

Rather, the Electros output is again to be shown to be woefully inadequate. I use the line level stage sometimes with just my S90es, no problems.

 

I noticed that with my Nordleads 1&2 as well. Low output, that is.

Indeed the output is low, but driving the JBL has NEVER been a problem due to a proper preamp circuit...

[mate stubb]

So use the headphone output of the Electro to drive them.

[Maze Sound]

Is the output on the electro balanced? Theres a significant difference between "line level" and Mic level". Sometimes as much as 20 db. Is the cable you are using TRS or just TS? Might be worth looking at the specs on the electro. Something seems out of place, you should have plenty of signal. I've used the K12's and own 4 HPR122i's. Its not the preamp section on the K12's.

[Maze Sound]

At the same price(taking the rebate into consideration) it would be a good idea to listen to both the K12 and the HPR, side by side. Everyone's ear is different and both boxes will have distinct sounds at different volume levels. Throw an EQ into the situation and everything changes. Remenber the old saying "buy once, cry once." Nothing worse than spending some decent dollars and not being happy down the road. I'm not knocking the K12's by any means. I use my HPR's for FOH, monitors and in a DJ rig with a sub. When amplifying vocals I find that the HPR's are easier to coax the sound out of. The horns on the K12's need a bit more work with the EQ, but still sounded great. For a sound guy, time at soundcheck is alway at a premium. The HPR's are "flatter" out of the box IMHO.

[ITGITC]

At the same price...

 

Sound quality is extremely important. For many of us size and weight are too.

 

Twenty (20) pounds is considerable if you are schlepping your own equipment.

 

Before making a purchase it makes sense to actually go out and listen.

 

In the running are the QSC HPR122i, K10, K12, K8, and JBL PRX512M. I am certain that others here would add to this list.

 

Tom

 

 

 

[NoahZark]

I keep reading/hearing great things about the Yorkville NX55P, although the Yorkville stuff gets very little mention on this Forum. We're going a little OT, so perhaps it's time to start another "Powered Speakers Thread"? Then again, perhaps Keyboard Mag could do us a favor and run a shootout for us. After all, all those keyboard reviews are great, but we can't actually hear those boards without amplification, so a SR shoot-out seems appropriate to me.

 

Noah

 

 

[kanker.]

At the same price(taking the rebate into consideration) it would be a good idea to listen to both the K12 and the HPR, side by side. Everyone's ear is different and both boxes will have distinct sounds at different volume levels. Throw an EQ into the situation and everything changes. Remenber the old saying "buy once, cry once." Nothing worse than spending some decent dollars and not being happy down the road. I'm not knocking the K12's by any means. I use my HPR's for FOH, monitors and in a DJ rig with a sub. When amplifying vocals I find that the HPR's are easier to coax the sound out of. The horns on the K12's need a bit more work with the EQ, but still sounded great. For a sound guy, time at soundcheck is alway at a premium. The HPR's are "flatter" out of the box IMHO.

HPR's are out of the question- no 1/4" ins. I'm not gonna haul a mixer...

[ITGITC]

HPR's are out of the question- no 1/4" ins. I'm not gonna haul a mixer...

 

Yeah. But... but... You could always purchase a cable with 1/4" phone plug on one end and a XLR plug on the other.

 

(I would've said you could purchase TWO, but since you have a reputation of running in MONO, well...)

 

Tom

 

PS The chef at the BBQ place is asking where you've been hiding.

 

 

 

[kanker.]

Yeah. But... but... You could always purchase a cable with 1/4" phone plug on one end and a XLR plug on the other.

 

(I would've said you could purchase TWO, but since you have a reputation of running in MONO, well...)

 

Tom

 

PS The chef at the BBQ place is asking where you've been hiding.

 

 

I would have to get two - the HPR's only have one XLR in....

 

 

 

(damn you Tom, now I need to go get some Q....)

[Dave Ferris]

Before I bought the EV 360 SXAs two years ago, I schlepped my P120 into a Sam Ash and tried various speakers. The QSC HPR1222i was one of them, I think they had just come out. On the P120 they sounded terrible IMO-very boxy. I hooked up a vocal mic and they sounded great. Could have been the P120, it is older, but before you pull the trigger on those, I'd be sure to try em' out with your keyboard or at least have the option to return if you don't dig them.

 

I'm actually very curious to hear both the K8 & 10. The EVs are sounding a bit electronic to me these days on both my P120 & CP300. The last few gigs I've been hauling out the CP300 cause I'm just burned on the P120. Actually my Motion Sound KP200 has sounded better with the CP than the EVs....coulda been the room, but I'm beginning to think certain speakers/amps are better matched to particular keyboards or DPs than others.

 

Still would like to hear the Acoustic Image with the CP300. With the Roland 700GX I didn't miss the stereo thing at all. It was the Coda I heard, not even the model they recommend for keyboards.

[Dave Ferris]

One more thing---I'm also beginning to feel that the 12" cabinets are too "big" a sound for Jazz pianists playing a DP. I think the 8" or 10"s might be better suited for the sound that pianists are going after.

[bhodaway10]

One more thing---I'm also beginning to feel that the 12" cabinets are too "big" a sound for Jazz pianists playing a DP. I think the 8" or 10"s might be better suited for the sound that pianists are going after.

 

A fellow jazz organist came by my house to A/B his setup. He used a KP100s w/ a sub and I use the KP500 sn. While I still like my setup, I did think the 8's on the KP100 sounded very nice and I wonder if it's a similar concept as to what you're thinking Dave.

 

I've tried the K8's - I think you could get by w/o a sub if you had two. Maybe even one K10 might suffice......

[davinwv]

I've had 10' actives (FBT MaxX2As) and the K8s sound much cleaner and less boxy on piano sounds than 2As. Don't get me wrong, you'll still need to roll some mids off your piano sounds at higher volumes, but, with the DEEP setting enabled, I cannot imagine needing more lows on a medium-sized quartet/trio gig.

[Dave Ferris]

The main problem that I'm running into the last few years around town in at least 80% of the rooms I play is, the set up space is too small. Even for just a trio, the room is not there for the footprint of 2 small speakers and my Quicklok WS550 stand.

 

That's why I've been looking for a good mono source. The best I've heard so far has been the Acoustic Image.

 

 

[Dave Ferris]

 

A fellow jazz organist came by my house to A/B his setup. He used a KP100s w/ a sub and I use the KP500 sn. While I still like my setup, I did think the 8's on the KP100 sounded very nice and I wonder if it's a similar concept as to what you're thinking Dave.

 

I remember trying out the KP100 at the Sherman Oaks GC a few years back. I can't remember if it was with a P250 or the P120/90 equivalent at the time.

I do remember the sound being way more focused than my KP200 is. I almost bought it but didn't have the dough at the time to put towards an amp that would be used just for little Jazz gigs.

 

I know SK had one for awhile and felt it sounded good but was way under powered for trio playing.

[SK]

Hmm, now with a sub, the KP100 might cut it for gigs. Otherwise, it will distort at the volume you'd need to play.

[bhodaway10]

The main problem that I'm running into the last few years around town in at least 80% of the rooms I play is, the set up space is too small. Even for just a trio, the room is not there for the footprint of 2 small speakers and my Quicklok WS550 stand.

 

That's why I've been looking for a good mono source. The best I've heard so far has been the Acoustic Image.

 

 

I hear you Dave. I don't know how a lot of people here have room for all of their gear w/ the shrinking stages I'm playing on.

 

 

 

[WWW]

If you have the ability to accept 1/4" ins, you should design the pres be able to drive the amp sufficiently, as JBL did with the first two EON iterations.

Totally agreed..

How about the HPR 122i on this issue?

[Dave Ferris]

The main problem that I'm running into the last few years around town in at least 80% of the rooms I play is, the set up space is too small. Even for just a trio, the room is not there for the footprint of 2 small speakers and my Quicklok WS550 stand.

 

That's why I've been looking for a good mono source. The best I've heard so far has been the Acoustic Image.

 

 

I hear you Dave. I don't know how a lot of people here have room for all of their gear w/ the shrinking stages I'm playing on.

 

 

 

Jeez forget stages around here, it's more like..."Hey you guys see that 6X10 space over there by the bathroom? That's where you'll be going and oh, don't block the door either."

 

It's more like the music is an afterthought or annoyance to most these days.

[burningbusch]

 

A fellow jazz organist came by my house to A/B his setup. He used a KP100s w/ a sub and I use the KP500 sn. While I still like my setup, I did think the 8's on the KP100 sounded very nice and I wonder if it's a similar concept as to what you're thinking Dave.

 

I remember trying out the KP100 at the Sherman Oaks GC a few years back. I can't remember if it was with a P250 or the P120/90 equivalent at the time.

I do remember the sound being way more focused than my KP200 is. I almost bought it but didn't have the dough at the time to put towards an amp that would be used just for little Jazz gigs.

 

I know SK had one for awhile and felt it sounded good but was way under powered for trio playing.

 

You should try out the Roland AC-90. It is the rough equivalent of the KP100S (power/8") but it's cleaner and has a much more accurate frequency response. I own both and have A/B'ed them with a variety of material and the Roland is clearly better, IMHO.

 

I use it in a duo (with an electric bass player). All my sounds and backing tracks are run through AC-90. It's a small, quiet venue but the Roland easily covers the room.

 

If you try it out remember this:

 

a) You MUST run through the AUX in (RCA or 1/4") in order to get stereo out of the amp. The other, main inputs are mono. This setup does not allow you to use EQ or FXs. Only the main volume control is available.

 

b) The amp has speaker stand mount underneath. USE IT. Get the amp off the ground and at ear level.

 

The AC-90 is only $599 and includes a nice carrying case. I also own JBL SRX series, EONs, AccuGrooves and the Motion Sound. The little AC-90 holds up really well.

 

The AC-90, SKB Studio Flyer 2U, V-Stand, Ultimate speaker stand and piano bench all easily fit in the trunk of my Acura sedan. The RD300GX rides in the back seat.

 

Busch.

[Dave Ferris]

Thanks Busch, I'll try and check out the Roland. I don't recall seeing them at the Sherman Oaks, Hollyweird, or Pasadena GCs. Maybe Sam Ash has them.

 

I just came in from running my CP300 into my Dyn Audio BM6As. Went out of the XLR outs directly to the Dyns. Man if I could get THAT sound in a gigging speaker I'd be a happy camper.

[burningbusch]

Thanks Busch, I'll try and check out the Roland. I don't recall seeing them at the Sherman Oaks, Hollyweird, or Pasadena GCs. Maybe Sam Ash has them.

 

I just came in from running my CP300 into my Dyn Audio BM6As. Went out of the XLR outs directly to the Dyns. Man if I could get THAT sound in a gigging speaker I'd be a happy camper.

 

Look for the AC90 in with the acoustic guitar stuff. Roland markets them as an acoustic guitar amp.

 

I agree with the nearfields. I have ADAMs and Genelecs and those are my benchmarks for sound. My goal has been to get close to that live. Check out the Roland. You might be surprised at how good they sound for not a lot of money or size.

 

Busch.

[ITGITC]

Update on the gig using the K12 as monitors.

 

We have two. I daisy-chained them from the output of my Mackie 1402VLZ.

 

The gain on each was set 1/2 way up in a 12:00 position and they had plenty of volume. No problem. I cannot see it ever becoming a problem.

 

They do have an EQ switch to roll off the bass response when using them in a monitor position. I used it. I also used the vocal presence EQ - as opposed to a flat response.

 

How did they sound? Great.

 

Unfortunately, because of time constraints I did not have the opportunity to give them an honest appraisal with just me, my PC2x and the monitors. But I'll get that chance. In this capacity, they were really nice.

 

BluesKeys was at the gig and came up to sing. (Thanks again, Jim. You rock!) Perhaps he'll have time to post his comments.

 

Tom

 

 

[MusicaL]

Looked up the AC-90. Interesting. One problem for me would be the fact that the Aux-in do not output to the line outs. I suppose a mixer would take care of that... But, who wants to lug yet another piece.

 

Still intrigued by the K-8 or K-10's. I'll have to find time to get to GC and try them out!!!

 

aL

[Maze Sound]

Noah Yorkville is the parent company of Traynor. They make some great boxes in the price range they shoot for. Some of their folded horn subs are pretty amazing. First time I got to mix on a Yorkville setup I was a little skeptical as they have this really wierd horn setup. When I saw them I thought they were just another "gimmick". Right up tp the point where I started dialing them in. They put the tweeter and 3 mid speakers in one horn. Not sure who designed them, but they put out one hell of a clean loud sound. I'd consider them in a heartbeat. I think the boxes model was U15P (they were active boxes). Kind of odd to see a 3 way top box these days. They also have a 2 year "even if you break it" warranty.

[Floyd Tatum]

Maze Sound, I found your post really interesting, so I had to find out more. If anyone's interested, the Yorkville Unity high-frequency driver system is explained here:

Yorkville Sound Unity Summation Aperture Horn Technology

 

However, I don't think the Unity U15 is a folded-horn design That's something else again, where the horn is folded into the cabinet - that's a cabinet thing.

[TieDyedDevil]

I came here a few years ago to peruse the powered monitor and keyboard amp threads while searching for amplification to use with my guitar played through a modeling processor. I've been through a few iterations since then, culminating recently with a pair of K10s.

 

Here's a detailed review I wrote for the K10s: http://lamkins-guitar.com/music/article/k10 .