OT: What do you guys think of Phish/reunion/new single?

[scottasin]

I know there's a lot of people on here (or at least I get the feeling there are) that don't really like/appreciate Phish. I however am really looking forward to hearing the new tour. After hearing the first new phish song in years released today (listen to it on their myspace page, 'Time Turns Elastic').

 

Although the lyrics are cheesy and not very good, thats just like 90% of Phish songs. However, the music is really good,very prog rock feel, lots of changes, very technical.

 

Phish seems to get a lot of flack for being a one chord jamband group, but I challenge you guys to listen to some of their composition/prog stuff (Try 'divided sky', 'fluffhead/fluff's travels' and 'guelah papyrus' and 'reba' to name a few).

 

Also, some of their 'one chord jams' are really quite incredible and uplifting. I challenge anyone to download this song and listen to it all the way through and tell me they don't like it (http://www.sendspace.com/file/8cc3r6).

 

Anyways... am I the only phan on here?

[kanker.]

I don't like it. The bass player should be shot, one Phil Lesh is one too many. The over 10 minute long guitar wanking was generally meaningless, the drummer dropped beats like crazy, and the keyboard work was thoroughly marginal. If I could get those 14 minutes back, I would.

[scottasin]

which didn't you like?

[kanker.]

The one you challenged people to not like. Lots of notes, not much music

[scottasin]

I suppose me and you have differing opinions, which is OK. To me, yes that song has lots of notes, but it's the transitions and improv that really gets me. Its when they change keys as a band without planning on it so smoothly, the building to a peak, and the uplifting guitar part... those 2 minutes or so with the high sustained guitar are my favorite two minutes of music... they just make me happy...

 

What kind of music do you like? I suppose it's likley just differing tastes...

 

And you can't deny that they aren't all great listeners, improvisers and musicians. (well, maybe you can, but I won't agree)

[Mike Davis]

... The bass player should be shot, one Phil Lesh is one too many. The over 10 minute long guitar wanking was generally meaningless, the drummer dropped beats like crazy, and the keyboard work was thoroughly marginal ...

 

Other than that it was OK.

 

 

 

[Jonathan Hughes]

I'm not a Phish fan, but a good friend of mine is, and I've heard lots of stuff that would've been a better example than this song. I don't think they're particularly tight on this song, and the song itself is pretty uninspiring/uninspired. The part starting around 6:08 really doesn't sound like they're listening to each other. There are some really bad notes (Mike Gordon!) and some just plain old amateur-sounding playing

[NoahZark]

...they just make me happy...

 

Isn't that all that matters?

[scottasin]

...they just make me happy...

 

Isn't that all that matters?

 

Of course.

[FunkKeysStuff]

My take: they are neither as good as their fans claim, nor as bad as their critics claim. They're not gods, nor are they utter wankers. They're a band that got good at what they do, found a large and loyal audience, and parlayed those things into an admirable career -- and for that, my hat's off to them. I have enjoyed some of their music, and I owned a couple of their early albums. In fact I still occasionally pull out the rhythm changes tune they did ("Magilla," I think it was called?) on jazz gigs. But for better or worse, the first thing I think of when I hear their name isn't their music; it's the inescapably massive baggage that comes with their "scene," which fully obliterates any desire on my part to see them live.

[wmp]

The bass player should be shot, one Phil Lesh is one too many.

 

I can appreciate Phil, but I probably wouldn't call him for a gig. Got friends who kick his ass at his own game who work cheaper. He'd get fired from every band I work with. If Phil would like to call me, I'm all ears. Where and how much? After seeing Phil and Friends on Dave or Conan a while back, he should call me.

 

Saw a craigslist ad a while back looking for a keyboard player who could, among other things, play like Page. I had to answer the ad, just to ask. Who the hell is Page? Never did score a gig out of the deal, but I did play a few Phish tunes with a couple of other bands. Couldn't tell you which tunes.

 

I don't dislike Phish, it's just that I had already done the hippy drippy bag for years and moved on long before they got started. They're all pretty good, but I play with folks I like more.

 

 

[Dana.]

I think they should've stayed broken up.

[kanker.]

I suppose me and you have differing opinions, which is OK. To me, yes that song has lots of notes, but it's the transitions and improv that really gets me. Its when they change keys as a band without planning on it so smoothly, the building to a peak, and the uplifting guitar part... those 2 minutes or so with the high sustained guitar are my favorite two minutes of music... they just make me happy...

 

What kind of music do you like? I suppose it's likley just differing tastes...

 

And you can't deny that they aren't all great listeners, improvisers and musicians. (well, maybe you can, but I won't agree)

I like and listen to all kinds of music, quite literally. Bach and earlier music, blues, country, Indian Classical music, Cuban, Brazillian, reggae, soul, funk, RnB, hip-hop, rock, etc.... I especially like and listen to improvised music. I play and improvise music most of the time. This is not good improvised music in my opinion. This is an average garage band with a following. This is the Grateful Dead with *slightly* better time, and equally amateurish bass playing. On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being smokin and 1 being horrible, Phish is about a 2.5.

 

For people who grew up in the days after great arena rock bands, serious rock and roll, real psychedelia, etc... this is probably impressive. People just don't play music in that vein in the world of popular music. For people who grew up on the great rock bands of the 60's and 70's, this is just not particularly good music. That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of 60's and 70's jazz and fusion, where you REALLY need serious listening and improvising chops. Don't get me wrong, like it all you want, but don't make it into something it isn't. I've listened to the tracks you've posted - you can get way beyond the quality of music that Phish plays if you want to.

[Tonysounds]

I've got a bunch of Phish discs, and most of them are pretty forgettable. But when they get it right, they're very good.

 

Kanker, I would recommend checking out RIFT and A PICTURE OF NECTAR, those are actually decent (Maze has a pretty happening grinding organ solo). I couldn't recommend much more though. This is the band that worked with "The Dude Of Life"....whatever that is.

 

I did buy tickets to see them when they come to down. They're cheap, it's outside, and it's hippy chicks! As much fun as a Cubs game....hopefully!

 

I'll let you know if my opinion of them improved at all.

[Tonysounds]

Besides, I was always more of a Widespread Panic and String Cheese Incident fan. But give me The Neville Brothers, Santana, Gov't Mule and The Allman Brothers any day!

[RedKey]

I would recommend checking out RIFT and A PICTURE OF NECTAR, those are actually decent (Maze has a pretty happening grinding organ solo).

 

+1

 

Junta also has a moment or two....... and the rest is very forgettable.

Never seen them live. I like cheap, outside, and hippy chicks.

[Griffinator]

Besides, I was always more of a Widespread Panic and String Cheese Incident fan. But give me The Neville Brothers, Santana, Gov't Mule and The Allman Brothers any day!

 

Of your list, the only one I'd pay to see is the Allman Bros - and that's only prior to Duane's passing, as Duane pretty much made that band. One pass through Greg's solo album back in the 80's is all the evidence I need to back that point.

 

I'd just as soon go hear Greg Howard go at it with his percussionist and his beat poet (Code Magenta, for those wondering) than listen to any of that "jam band" rubbish.

[Outkaster]

I opened up for them. I like a lot of music and could never get into the jam band thing.

[ProfD]

Minus the negative aspects of it, I appreciate the jamband scene because it does provide bands playing original music with an outlet.

 

Scott, I hope that your affinity for Phish will lead you back to happening stuff in other styles especially from the 60s and 70s.

[Bridog6996]

I think Phish was one of the most amazing bands that I've seen live, and by "was" I mean their style has changed over the years. Up until around '95 their group improv was really dynamic. It was much more jazz-oriented, for lack of a better phrase. As a group, they could bring the music in and out to some very interesting places in ways that I'd never heard before and have yet to hear since. One thing I would certainly not call Phish is a band that's not "tight." They're way tight. If you're so inclined, seek out a live recording (they've released many on CD recently) from somewhere in the '91 to to '95 era and I guarantee you won't be disappointed. On the other hand, I can see how it's the kind of music that can be polarizing, much like Zappa. You often love it or you hate it.

 

In more recent years, though, it seems like their playing has distilled itself down to where it's simpler, with predictable one-chord jams that rarely change focus. I'm not sure why that is. Maybe as they got "bigger" they felt that more intricate playing didn't translate to massive arenas. Who knows. I think they're kinda at the point where they're almost a parody of themselves, much like the Grateful Dead became (although I think the two bands sound nothing alike). In short, there's a night and day difference between "old" Phish and what they sound like now. I can see how hearing their newer stuff as a first introduction to the band can turn people off. That's not to say I don't dig some of their newer stuff, either. I thought "Story of the Ghost" and "Farmhouse" had some interesting tunes (to be honest, I haven't heard any of their albums since). I'm just talking about the "jamming" aspect.

 

Anyway, with that said, while I don't have the interest in Phish that I used to, I still enjoy them. Went to their reunion run in Hampton and had a great time. There's no doubt they're a "live" band, in that it's meant to be experienced in person and not in the studio.

[Tonysounds]

Besides, I was always more of a Widespread Panic and String Cheese Incident fan. But give me The Neville Brothers, Santana, Gov't Mule and The Allman Brothers any day!

 

Of your list, the only one I'd pay to see is the Allman Bros - and that's only prior to Duane's passing, as Duane pretty much made that band. One pass through Greg's solo album back in the 80's is all the evidence I need to back that point.

 

I'd just as soon go hear Greg Howard go at it with his percussionist and his beat poet (Code Magenta, for those wondering) than listen to any of that "jam band" rubbish.

 

Ouch. Have you heard any of the Govt Mule stuff, or Panic or String Cheese for that matter? A lot of ABB was forgettable, but with the current version with Warren Haynes and Derek Trucks live is really pretty happening, and their bassist, Oteil Burbridge is a frightening player: he lays it down the way it should be, but when it comes to his spot, that's when the chops come out, and man, does he have them: he's a pretty happening scat singer too, and when he scats and solos on the bass....look out! Their last album Hittin The Note has some pretty decent stuff on it.

 

Govt Mule (Warren Haynes is the principal in that outfit) is a pretty ferocious band too, and their last couple of records (DejaVoodoo, High & Mighty) are very good. GREAT live too.

 

Widespread Panic are my favorite of that bunch, but you either love them or hate them. They've changed a bit since Mike Houser died, but their songwriting has gotten even better.

 

It's okay if you've sampled them and just decided this music is not for you, but you can't really discount it if you haven't heard it.

[Bridog6996]

I might also add that, however one feels about Phish's music, I think credit should at least be given for the fact that they were well ahead of their time from a business standpoint. They had self-released three albums and were ranking on Pollstar as one of the country's top-earning touring artists before any record company even knew they existed. They were really the ultimate "indie band," and this was ages before term "indie" even existed. The music industry is only just now starting to catch up to certain aspects of the business model that Phish started 20 years ago.

[wmp]

... the inescapably massive baggage that comes with their "scene," which fully obliterates any desire on my part to see them live.

The tribe. A gene pool that could use a new filter. Got two calls in the last five years to replace dead keyboard players in Dead cover bands. One national and one regional. Both very tribal. Both too religious and authentic for me.

 

Got a taste of the tribe last month in Worcester. My brother bought me a ticket to see the Dead and I felt obliged to attend. Half way through the space and drums mess, I gave my niece the elbow and asked, what does a deadhead say when he runs out of herb? This band sucks. Mickey Hart should not be allowed to touch a synth in public.

 

Bob's keyboard player is pretty good, and he played his own game. Warren was not playing his own game, he was playing Jerry's noodles. If I go on, I'll really tear up that show. It would score about a 1 on the kanker scale.

 

To be 17 and into Phish isn't a bad thing. Whatever inspires you to play and learn is all good. Just don't join the tribe. To an old dog who went through that school before they did, they're a bunch of lucky kids. Musically, they don't have anything of interest to teach me. Though they do whop my ass in business management.

[ABECK]

Up until around '95 their group improv was really dynamic.

 

Agreed. After Rift, I have not been impressed with anything they have done. Some of the earlier live stuff is pretty good. Back when Page was playing a Yamaha Electric Grand and a Hammond L100.

[Phil Aiken]

I try not to be critical of bands that other people are fans of, especially on a semi-anonymous internet forum. I try to respect differing opinions, and also try to respect musicians that are giving it their all, regardless of whether or not I dig what they do.

That said, due to the nature of this thread....

 

If there is one band I wish didn't exist, it would be Phish. I really, really despise them. Truly. Everything that turns me on about rock music is absent. No groove. No soul. No hooks. Horrid vocals. Terrible writing. And yes, Trey has some chops, but technical proficiency means nothing to me unless it is serving some greater purpose.

 

But again, if they make you happy and you enjoy them, then that is reason enough for me to put up with their existence!!!!

[Griffinator]

It's okay if you've sampled them and just decided this music is not for you, but you can't really discount it if you haven't heard it.

 

Trust me, I've heard it. Gov't is just a bit too mid-90's blues for me (there were a dozen bands out there doing this modern blues sound during that time, peeps like Kenny Wayne Shepherd and the like) Widespread just never really moved me, and while I respect the hell out of Trucks, the new ABB is just a bit too drone-ish for me.

 

Bear in mind, I'm also a serious prog-head, so yeah, this kind of stuff really isn't going to turn me on.

 

Oh - and the Greg Howard mention wasn't intended to be a slam - I actually dug Code Magenta for its brief lifespan, and I've seen him live several times (he used to live in Charlottesville, and came down here to do shows all the time)

[ELP71]

I liked 'Hoist', which most Phish fans detest. The song structure is much more defined and 'poppy' on that album, and I think its actually quite impressive. Played 'Down With Disease' in a couple cover bands and it always went over well.

 

Their more 'jammy' stuff sounds like rehearsal to me. I've actually heard better stuff at ad-hoc bands initial sound check. Its sad that a group of musicians listening to and reacting to each other is thought of as 'amazing musicianship' as opposed to 'basic skill'.

[Jim Alfredson]

Poor Scott... you guys are giving him the business!

[scottasin]

Poor Scott... you guys are giving him the business!

 

Hey, its not like I wasn't expecting it.

[kanker.]

Poor Scott... you guys are giving him the business!

 

Hey, its not like I wasn't expecting it.

Which is cool. When you make a challenge like the one you made, you need to expect the a reaction like mine. Don't let that deter you...