Is Your Music Any Good? Find Out Here!!

[The Studio Pet-Rock]

Chip: Hey, it's all good. I know it wasn't a put down. It was a very honest and articulate critique and I appreciate that. The "kick me in the scratch post" thing was just a joke. Combining the two elements is a good idea and I have been trying to close that gap a bit. Subtlety is an art in itself. It's a fine line, though. Too crazy with structures, and people become alienated by it. But if you strip it down too far, you become Creed or the Offspring. Again, I thank you for your input. I don't consider anything you've said to be an insult. Just good advice. Peace out (war in)

[not Cereal]

my friend has a girlfriend and I SAID OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHH there. creedspring. Offcreed. combining two elements FA FA FA! curve- umm.....well......i liked it better when i heard it the first time...20 years ago......good effort though what exactly did you do on that tune? you didnt mix it, edit it or anything.

[m2]

[quote]Originally posted by dadabobro@yahoo.com: [b][QUOTE]Originally posted by wfturner@csonline.net: It is difficult to take your "response" very personally, as you obviously did not listen to our music. I am not very familiar with the genres you mentioned, but if someone did document 1,000 pieces belonging to those genres (it wouldn't be you- by your own admission you dismiss them out of hand), they would probably find just as much talent, hard work and soul as anywhere else. Artists use the tools at hand. As far as "triggering a drum loop" and all that, I have never used a sample CD in my life and synthesize all sounds from scratch, except for the occaisional guitar and piano. The drum loops and breaks on "Cruel Miracles" and "Dark Age Swank" are me playing an acoustic guitar as a percussion instrument- saw Sabicus doing it in concert and modernized the concept. Everything else is played in, nothing ripped from CDs. Not to disrespect sampling artists- I respect all labor and passion, regardless how foreign it is to me. Since all us hipsters are making such simple tunes, and you are talking about theory books, why don't you take a minute and notate the vocal and organ lines (composed the old fashioned way- heard in the heart, written down with pen on paper and played in by hand) from something simple like "Cruel Miracles"? An easy excercise, might remind you of some concepts like counterpoint and listening. As far as your comment about "try to sing", I won't translate into English what Bernarda, the other half of the Kosmolith duo, has to say because I'm trying to cut down on that kind of language. Then again, she is a soloist in the Vienna Volksoper, and I am her coach, what do we know? There are some people on this forum more than qualified to help us out with eqing, balance, recording techiniques, getting the most out of a home studio- we would love to hear from them. And as to having a nice day- well, it's evening, lovely and unseasonally warm, but thanks and you too. http://www.mp3.com/Kosmolith [/b][/quote] Just wanted to say that I find your stuff oddly compelling and addicting. At first, my conventional mind was thrown, but soon, I found myself really into it. Cruel Miracles is hypnotic and nearly scary, but I really like it. Macle

[Chip McDonald]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dadabobro@yahoo.com: [b] [www.mp3.com/Kosmolith]http://www.mp3.com/Kosmolith[/b] [b]"Brittle Glass"[/b] - Ooooh.... this veritably exudes torrents of pained amorphous animosity wrenched from the turgid soul of the obsidian waste that is "Humanity"... Sorry, you will have to allow me some levity here.... This is very interesting because - in America there is a stereotype connected to this type of music that on the face seems absurd, but apparently really does exist. True angular gothic post-classical music. This is what Peter Murphy wanted to be. This is not my tastes at all, but it appears to be executed well. Sounds like a possibly classically trained low alto? Comes off as kind of absurd to my stiff American parochial sensibilities, but there's an underground goth scene that's big enough in big cities here in the U.S. that would support stuff like this if presented right. [b]"Cruel Miracle"[/b] - willie sie touchen meinen monkey? Now, we must dance! "scary" "primitive" percussion sort of like something in a Bizet thing, or like a bolero... music for a Cocteau work (which I suppose is the aim..).. Contains that "found" quick-edit sound, which contributes to the "foreboding alienation" vibe. Man, this is "disturbing"... The atonal chimes leading into the choral pseudo-major bit, with the... half-diminished harmony..like a Christmas carol reharmonized to some odd locrian hybrid scale. Then the strange detuned honky-pseudo bassoon sounding guitar phrase that "resolves" to an atonal augmented chord? Wild... I know people who would get into this sort of thing, but it's way too atonal for me. The vibe fits the title in that cliche "Dieter" manner: I do feel much gloomier in a warm way after listening to this. It is cold and harsh, like a Bauhaus influenced multiple family dwelling; which is what you want it to sound like kind of, right? "Wire to the World" - for a moment.. hmm. The drum part sounds like it's going to be a techno version of "Radar Love". Then the synth strings come in... very 40's noir... hmm. That Moby piano thing.. Hmm.. crazy major sounding but dissonant marimba... "Blow up the taxman"... "we have memories like elephants" followed by boing-boing "flexing a big saw blade" sounds... Then back to the curious major vocal theme.. This is pretty peculiar as well... dare I say it again, "disturbing"... ? "Dark Age Swank" - "scary" intro... "my boat will float until it reaches some port"... the female vocal reminds me of part of a Kate Bush tune.. "Haunting in an amusing way". Hmm.. Leslied Hammond on a church drawbar setting... that was truly peculiar... I'm not into the atonal thing... There's Glass-isms here I don't get into. But it's well done for what it is, and everything seems balanced and eq'ed well from a recording standpoint. From a low-brow "Amekican: standpoint it comes off extremely pompous, but I understand in gothic circles how that works... I remember long ago doing some experiments to figure out "what is the sound of a sinus headache" (one must strive to learn everything), trying to come up with rules governing some sort of hybrid locrian scale that starts out with consonant intervals descending into a certain type of diminished polychord... I don't remember the details (I like to learn and then throw away), but I hear that (loosely) "resolve" in what you're doing. Something I might consider using for an instant as a curveball in something; you wallow in it which is interesting. It's sort of like a variant of the New York Knitting Factory scene, there's a guy... frick... anyhow, there's this guitar player from that scene that does a particular type of atonal "resolve" and if you listen to it long enough it really warps your tonal sensibility... Not my taste, but creepy stuff in a high-brow pretentious sort of way. It would be great to see you perform this stuff wearing bright clothes picked out from WalMart, maybe a Dale Earnhardt jersey or some such; that would provoke instantaneous cerebral dysphasia in people. [i]I have to say - this message board, based on what I've heard so far as of this moment, harbors the most disparate assemblage of tastes ever gathered in one place. If this is a suitable cross section of a global sampling of interests, this suitably demonstrates how far right "mainstream" music really is.[/i] Hmm. In fact, I've noticed that most all of the polls CNN conducts online breaks down like the old Republican/Democrat party line: 51/49% demarcation. All of the poll topics are wide ranging - but if you look at the results from "is this something a person of open minded tastes would approve of" versus close minded, it starts making sense. So what I'm getting at is - I think, and this is of course unsubstantiated wild speculation - mainstream music only reflects what half the population prefers probably, in it's tendency towards conservatism. The other half is probably willing - and more interested in hearing something that is *deliberately* NOT mainstream sounding. In other words - there is a very large untapped audience for music in the category of "other" that hasn't been approached properly. Perhaps it is a basic genetic trait that pushes the species forward: is there a 50/50 probability a person is born with a basic disposition to be either open or closed minded? I'm almost thinking that is a fundamental trait that is being overlooked - trees for the forest style. A 50/50 balance would be most efficient; a stabilized balance acquired over time, since being weighted to either side would create a society that would either become de-evolving from lack of experimentation, or would possibly burn out due to too many different forces pulling at everyone at the same time. Or maybe that mahi mahi quesadilla isn't digesting properly right now... I dunno. Enough! I feel strained by this. (Dieter Mode: OFF) [b]http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald[/b] This message has been edited by Chip McDonald on 01-27-2001 at 11:05 PM

[Uh Clem]

Curve - well I'm way behind on these things but I had to jump ahead to yours since I've been jousting with you since way back [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img]. Green Tunnel Probably heard it 4 or 5 times now. Production is good - even on my computer Altecs w/Sub the MP3 sounds fine (for MP3) - so I'm not missing any bass - the balance is fine - a good solid mix. How much of the recording process / mixing did you actually do? BTW, is this the same Translux T listed at the Garage in the Fringe 99 - Triphop/Acid Jazz? You guys must have changed your style a bit....or I need a refresher genre course. Anyways, thanks for jumping in with both feet - MP3.COM can be a pain, but it is pretty darn nice considering the price. For other who don't want to do that, there are some free WEB folder services out there where you can place file - MSN.COM (WEB Communities?) is one that I use for sharing data on the WEB. ------------------ Steve Powell Bull Moon Digital Atlanta GA [i]music is a problem for everyone[/i] you could hear things differently [url=http://www.bullmoondigital.com]www.bullmoondigital.com[/url]

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by Curve Dominant: [b] http://www.mp3.com/TransluxTheater You'll see a lot of credits - Eric Vincent is me. Damn, there goes my anonymity.[/b][/quote] Sounds like a U2 bass line over a Duran-Duran drum beat. Heavy metal take on an Edge harmonic thing - open string to harmonics ala "I Will Follow", but with Floyd-Rose bar accents. Aren't you the same person that said "What decade are you from? " Vocals come in: sounds like Matt Johnson of The The using the "Dogs of War" vocal treatment. End of the verse section - ostinato accents vaguely akin to Soundgarden's "Jesus Christ Pose". Hmm.. which also features a narrow-pinched vocal sound... Hmmm.. Your drummer likes _Signals_ period Rush I bet, but picked up some snare/hat things from SG's "Bad Motorfinger". Chorus... Neil Peart/Scott Rockenfield drum pattern... singer.. hmm.. the melody is sort of like "Dogs of War" kind of. Like Rush with Brian Ferry maybe. HEY, WAIT A MINUTE... How'd the solo from VanHalen's "I'm the One" and "Sunday Afternoon in the Park" get in there???? Again... remember these words: "F*ck you, you eighties weedly-weedly-wee jerk-off. " ? Hmm. I'd want more exaggerated breath sounds on the "Green tunnel" verse bits. Almost sounds like "green jello", I'd watch out for that. At 1:20 your drummer does the hat accent Neil does in "Spirit of the Radio" (if I'm remembering correctly) that leads to the verse before the middle 8 of that song... HEY! How'd the ascending fan picking bit from "Eruption" get in there? That's also the bend from the beginning of the solo to "Now Your Ships Are Burned" by some Swedish fellow that shall go unnamed who fancies himself a Viking... Back to Edge harmonics.... Vai harmonic bar thingy... Vai theme into Vai divebomb... Now the chorus has double-bass.... Queensryche ending ala a tune off _The Warning_, I can't recall the name of right now. Nice mix, toms get lost a bit at times. Live gig drum micing sound. Great hat sound. Guitars could be more upfront on the verses, but good basic sound; less overall mix compression on the verses, or maybe a lower ratio - so the drums can punch a little more. I'm assuming you submixed the toms and erred on the conservative side, but a 2-mix compressor clamping on an overly loud tom now and then would probably fit the vibe of the song (again, the toms in "Jesus Christ Pose" come to mind). I'd want a touch of a high shelf boost starting at maybe 4k, but that may be a side effect of the mix compression? Or maybe just a slightly slower attack on the mix compression, or everything mixed harder into the compressor... I'd take the pinched vocal effect off the chorus to give it a break, or figure out something different to set the vocal apart on the chorus thematically from the verse. Fitting the production intent, maybe a wide panned-double tracked vocal part to contrast the narrow-up the middle vocal sound in the verses. It's curious - if you didn't claim to be from Philly I would swear you're a pair of guys I know in my town.... I don't care if you think my acoustic music is "Muzak" or that my deliberately 80's shred-metal sounding thing I did as a joke sounds 80's metal, that's your opinion; and now you have mine, so *now* we're cool if you are (barring the insults that are still posted, which *could* be deleted allowing this thread to have a high signal to noise ratio....)? [b]http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald[/b]

[Uh Clem]

Dogs of Lust - but nice reference to a great album IMNSHO. DOW is Floyd. Amen on the SN going up - Craig, can you clean this joint up?

[Guest]

<> After having a bit of time to reflect on my listen and reaction to your material yesterday morning, I'm intrigued by the rage your music instilled upon me. So much that I ranted. I apologize for the rant.. they're unproductive, distracting and distorting. I don't apologize for the way your music made me feel. You wrote it and produced it, it was supposed to generate some type of emotional attachment and it did. It generated a strong sense of negative emotions and opinion. I don't apologize to anyone about my opinions other than perhaps the way I choose to express them from time to time.. for which I again apologize. I'm intrigued enough to want to go back and figure out why sometime... sometime. <<(barring the insults that are still posted, which *could* be deleted allowing this thread to have a high signal to noise ratio....)?>> <> SN is kinda of a personal thing. It's learning to control the filters within ones own mind (a task at which I failed miserably yesterday). Life ain't no nursery where you scream for the NANNY cause someone say's something that another might not disagree with. ------------------ William F. Turner Guitarist, Composer, Songwriter

[Guest]

Thanks, Macle and Chip McDonald, for listening. Macle- thanks. It is good to hear your reactions. The first concern is of course can people actually physically hear the music? That's no joke, as Curve Dominant found out listening to his music in mp3.com lo-fi for the first time - mp3 seems to be the default AM radio of our time but it can really suck. At least, mastering for mp3 is an artform in itself. In spite of all the stereo imaging toys widely available, summing well to mono seems to be more of a "law" than ever. After reading some glowing reviews about the stunningly beautiful recording quality on a recent major label release, I listened to some streaming examples- about the worst recording sound you can imagine. Literally physically impossible to judge the music in any way but the most abstract. Too much stereo madness in the original? Poor conversion? Original listening environment too radically different from typical computer multimedia speakers? Who knows, but it can't be helping sales any. It could be that part of wfturner's concern about the genres dominating internet play is directly related to the fact that a couple of generations of brilliant recording musicians have devoted themselves a great deal to the very things that most suffer in the conversion process and streaming environment- dynamics, human voice, and guitar. Music without these three factors is much easier to make sound "good" in mp3 format. That being said here is a link to inspire- I don't know the guy, his musical vision is entirely foreign to me, but he victoriously kicks the ass of lo-fi mp3 without sacrificing the elements mentioned above. http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/99/stephen_paul.html Respect. As far as your music, Mr. McDonald, you could probably guess that "Majestic 12" is the piece both of us like the most, as well as the contrapuntal work in "Languid Shell Beach." Overall the music you have posted (important never to forget that what people post is probably not their entire body of work and may not even be indictive of their typical efforts) evokes feelings of vacations at the seaside, can't begrudge that emotion. A totally different trip, but- respect. It is also interesting that Mr. McDonald mentioned Peter Murphy- I have heard only one solo album of his, and some of his work with Mick Karn. There is definitely a lesson to be learned from his career- in an interview I read recently, he told his "Goth" audience to "grow up". The popular success of his youthful work tends to pigeonhole him as an artist, which is too bad, because he is obviously a "musician", not a "goth". Ready-made genres are dangerous things- they can virtually assure an instant audience and potential for "success", but turn to quicksand with the passing of time. Rather than be falsely associated with someone else's genre, we have made our own- it is called "Mahagonny- take it or leave it". Perhaps the lesson for us here is the visual artwork at the site- false connotations? The official site will avoid them. The highly negative responses we have recieved have come predominately from Germans and "Goths", so it is very interesting that you make the associations you do- the highly positive responses have been almost entirely from Eastern Europeans and Americans. Go figure. "'40s noir" is dead on, by way of Dimitri Tiomkin, Ukrainian-American film composer whose music could be heard as synonomous with mid-century noir. Theoretically our chromatic modality could be descended from his immediate ancestory. But that is not so important. Quote-".... this veritably exudes torrents of pained amorphous animosity wrenched from the turgid soul of the obsidian waste that is "Humanity"..." Interesting reaction to a straightforward crooning tune most related to the work of Rumanian composer Nicolai Bretan- and a good description of how I feel, without sarcasm, about a lot of Motown-era music- I cannot listen to the gorgeous song "Under the Boardwalk" without crying. Try this- "Brittle Glass" vocal melody with accompaniment in "key of Irving Berlin"- F#Major: I, ii, V7 ...vi, v/vi...repeat. A melody is a melody is a melody. I don't believe in atonality- the ear will create what it needs and "paper" music, that can't be grasped by the ear or improvised with, is not for us. Quote- "So what I'm getting at is - I think, and this is of course unsubstantiated wild speculation - mainstream music only reflects what half the population prefers probably, in it's tendency towards conservatism. The other half is probably willing - and more interested in hearing something that is *deliberately* NOT mainstream sounding." This is a very good and encouraging statement, except that I disagree with "deliberately not mainstream sounding". If you have a song to sing, you sing it, come hell or high water, it's between you and God, not the mainstream. Music that is "deliberately" not mainstream, as opposed to not mainstream by nature, invariably, as far as I know, betrays either technical ineptitude or lack of a substantial vision- it is not enough, to change every fourth into a tritone and speak of rebellion or innovation. wfturner- apology accepted, and I apologize for the crack about "counterpoint and listening". No direspect. Thank you also for hating the music, because the opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference, and no musician wants to live in that place. peace Cameron Bobro http://www.mp3.com/Kosmolith

[Guest]

Hi I'm Back. If anyone has the time, please listen to a bit of our new live recording (we recorded it 1/21/01). What's wrong with it? Is there anything you hear right away that I could fix? I rough mastered it using SoundForge, are there any frequencies that shouldn't be there and/or are there too much? Is the reverb too much? Your help would be greatly appreciated. Here's the tune: [b]Feelin Good[/b] http://www.besonic.com/jamfree

[Uh Clem]

[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]Hey stevepow! I listened to one of the Merle's tunes and it sounds a BIT bottom heavy to me, but it didn't offend me that way. Will you do me a favor and listen to this: http://lflier.home.mindspring.com/Lee_40_Seconds.mp3 It's just 40 seconds of a snippet, and I wonder if it will do the same thing to your Genelec sub as Alpha's stuff did. I don't like the bass much in general, I needed to change the strings on my bass and I cut it direct through a JoeMeek (as opposed to the usual amp) and overcompressed the hell out of it to make up for the flat sounding strings - but it still doesn't entirely offend me, at least through any of the speakers I have around here. This is obviously not a final version of anything, just an idea I had at 4 in the morning, but I'm interested to hear what it sounds like on your system. Thanks, Lee[/b][/quote] Well the balance is OK - not bottom heavy at all. You're right, the bass part is definitely trash - it couldn't be more muddy or lost in the mix. Also it sounds to me like the acoustic guitar strumming is clouding the bass region, so a better, punchier bass track would benefit from more space from the acoustic guitar low end...I think. But I've become a sort of low-pass / hi-pass manic surgeon lately - like pruning crepe myrtles. What are your monitors again? BTW, what MP3 encoder are you using? People keep beating up on 'em (maybe as an excuse?) as to why their MP3 mixes don't sound so good. They should listen to your sample - oh yeah, and on real monitors, not the computers gizmos - clear as a bell. This message has been edited by stevepow on 01-28-2001 at 02:58 PM

[alphajerk]

update on the new mix links, previous dont work anymore. song approved [whoo hooo [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]] [url=http://chooser.mp3.com/cgi-bin/play/play.cgi/AAIBQhbkEgDABG5vcm1QBAAAAFKetgAAUQEAAABDlSpyOoBNTgV2cGTyuh39smf6WG4-/from_the_lungs.m3u]HIFI[/url] [url=http://chooser.mp3.com/cgi-bin/play/play.cgi/AAICQhbkEgDABG5vcm1QBAAAAFKetgAAUQEAAABDlSpyOniyCj7CYj7j3wonZu3FPkM-/from_the_lungs.m3u]LOFI[/url] for some heavy 70's stoner rock

[Uh Clem]

[quote]Originally posted by alphajerk: [b]for some heavy 70's stoner rock[/b][/quote] thank you. nice job.

[Guest]

[quote]Originally posted by stevepow: [b] BTW, what MP3 encoder are you using? People keep beating up on 'em (maybe as an excuse?) as to why their MP3 mixes don't sound so good. They should listen to your sample - oh yeah, and on real monitors, not the computers gizmos - clear as a bell.[/b][/quote] The excerpt sounds physically excellent from here, both on crap multimedia speakers and headphones. The tiny artifacts of the conversion process- listening on Sennheiser 600HD headphones- aren't even worth mentioning. As far as conversion software, that's probably the least likely suspect in mp3 quality problems- between the ever-increasing number of audio editing programs including the Frauenhofer codec, not to mention the availability of cracked top-of-the-line software, realistically speaking, that's got to be the most level part of the playing field. The quality of the recording/mixing, the timbral nature of the material, phasing problems and the way the file is/isnt treated before being fed to the convertor are the issues at hand. Lo-fi streaming quality sucks, but I thank the Good Lord for it- no better way to force me to improve my recording skills.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by stevepow: [b]Dogs of Lust - but nice reference to a great album IMNSHO. DOW is Floyd.[/b][/quote] 10 pts. to Steve Pow... Dogs of Lust, yep, that's what I was thinking... [b]http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald [/b]

[Lee Flier]

[quote]Originally posted by stevepow: [b] Well the balance is OK - not bottom heavy at all. You're right, the bass part is definitely trash - it couldn't be more muddy or lost in the mix. [/b][/quote] Yeah... thanks for checking it out, I was wondering whether on your system all that mud would spread out and obliterate everything. Glad to know I'm hearing things right in the monitors anyhow. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif[/img] [quote][b] Also it sounds to me like the acoustic guitar strumming is clouding the bass region, so a better, punchier bass track would benefit from more space from the acoustic guitar low end...I think.[/b][/quote] Actually I rolled all the low end off the acoustics already. Believe it or not all that crap you're hearing is the bass. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] I'm gonna re-cut it and then post it again. [quote][b]What are your monitors again?[/b][/quote] Event PS-5's. They are nearfields and I'm still getting used to the environment because I don't have a larger set of monitors. I did burn a CD of some stuff and play it over my stereo with a sub though, and it sounds pretty much as expected. I'm very pleased so far with the accuracy of the monitors and/or my ears in adjusting to them. [quote][b]BTW, what MP3 encoder are you using? People keep beating up on 'em (maybe as an excuse?) as to why their MP3 mixes don't sound so good. They should listen to your sample - oh yeah, and on real monitors, not the computers gizmos - clear as a bell.[/b][/quote] I've been a little puzzled by everyone's complaints about MP3 conversion, because I've never had any problem with that. For ripping from CD's, I use a shareware program called AudioGrabber, which allows you a choice of codecs. That's what I used for the snippet, with the LameEnc codec which for some reason gives me better results than the Fraunhofer on that program. For conversion directly from WAV's, as well as downsampling, I use Cool Edit. Never has done anything offensive. I think a lot of the problems people have with MP3 conversion have nothing to do with the software as someone else pointed out... oftentimes it comes from overcompressing something, including mastering software abuse. [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Other times it's having too much of one frequency spectrum or too many transients. If you have any doubts it helps to look at the stereo mix with a waveform editor and hopefully a spectrum analyzer if you have one, and make sure you have a nice looking graph. That seems easier for people in the digital age, to be able to see it if they can't hear it. I still just use my ears. Anyway thanks for checking that out, it was a big help! --Lee

[Chip McDonald]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dadabobro@yahoo.com: [b]typical efforts) evokes feelings of vacations at the seaside, can't begrudge that emotion. A totally different trip, but- respect.[/b] Pretty much diametrically different, eh? Thanks for the respect... [b]not a "goth". Ready-made genres are dangerous things- they can virtually assure an instant audience and potential for "success", but turn to quicksand with the passing of time.[/b] I pointed out the goth references because, unfortunately, I think most Americans are conditioned to reflexively think in categorical terms. [b]Perhaps the lesson for us here is the visual artwork at the site- false connotations? The official site will avoid them.[/b] No, their appropriate. Maybe a high contrast Man-ray style photographic image suits, I dunno. [b]The highly negative responses we have recieved have come predominately from Germans and "Goths", so it is very [/b] Well, it's not negative, but merely an association. You may or may not be aware of the Saturday Night Live sketch featuring Mike Meyers as the "Dieter" character, who is something of a catch all for stereotypes of such things. Again, most American comedy plays off of stereotypes: it is not neccessarily a "negative" image as much as it is using a stereotype as an excuse to make comedy. Akin to making sketch comedy around a beatnik jazzer, or a 60's hippie stereotype for instance. [b]with mid-century noir. Theoretically our chromatic modality could be descended from his immediate ancestory. But that is not so important. [/b] Well, it's significant you're not doing a bunch of plagal cadences... [b]A melody is a melody is a melody. I don't believe in atonality- [/b] I don't like most musical terminology myself, but it is sometimes useful for quick communication of general principles. I would much prefer much more *musically* specific references - like "the Miles Davis chord" or "the Hendrix chord" or "in the key of Irving Berlin". [b]the ear will create what it needs and "paper" music, that can't be grasped by the ear or improvised with, is not for us.[/b] I grok that. Every system has it's own self contained set of rules, at least those worth bothering with. In fact, it's quite tedious to listen to people talk about music in general due to ignorance of this concept: one person debating with someone else as to whether Stevie Ray Vaughn is better than Allan Holdsworth is absurd not only on an artistic level, but a technical one as well. Both artists conduct their music within a set of parameters which have very few elements that are part of a common set. The mind adjusts to those different sets - provided it is open. The key is self-same consistency so the parameter set is obvious: Stevie Ray Vaughn couldn't have played a bunch of chords based on clusters, and likewise Holdsworth can't add a major passing tone to a pentatonic scale in his rule set. [b]sounding". If you have a song to sing, you sing it, come hell or high water, it's between you and God, not the mainstream. [/b] I used a poor choice of wording. Not *deliberate*, I should have said "blithely uncaring" of the mainstream. Thanks for you review of my music. [b]http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald[/b]

[Chip McDonald]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b] choice of codecs. That's what I used for the snippet, with the LameEnc codec which for some reason gives me better results than the Fraunhofer on that [/b] I read so many negative comments about that codec that I didn't even try it, although I tried a few others (including the Fraunhofer). I did side by side tests of them, and was amazed by the disparity between all of them... and the random behavior. One would produce slight gurgling noises.. but another would not. One would seem to have a comb filtering effect on certain sounds, others would not.. on and on... Being the option-anxiety type I tried to practice an exercise in "letting go" and used one of the cheesiest free ones - Music Match - since it seemed to create the least amount of *artifacts*, although it seems more finicky about response versus level... I don't want to compress my stuff at all, but it did behave better with a compressed mix...which destoys certain dynamic nuances... ahg. At the time I made my mp3 page I wasn't that concerned about the whole venture, but on my next project I'll definitely have to try harder - people are getting much better results than I am overall, much to my dismay. I suppose probably what I did on the last project isn't conducive to the conversion process: music that's more consistent in level (meaning not compression, but arrangement) seems to come out best it would seem. [b]http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald[/b]

[Anderton]

Question time: This thread is getting reallllly long. Do you think I should: 1. Just let it keep on rollin' along (I do like the interaction that's happening...) 2. Close this thread, and start another from scratch (sort of "Son of Is Your Music Any Good? Find Out Here"). 3. Start a few genre-specific threads ("Is your Rock Music any good," "Is your techno/dance music any good," etc.). Opinions, anyone?

[Uh Clem]

[quote]Originally posted by Anderton: [b]Question time: This thread is getting reallllly long. Do you think I should: 1. Just let it keep on rollin' along (I do like the interaction that's happening...) 2. Close this thread, and start another from scratch (sort of "Son of Is Your Music Any Good? Find Out Here"). 3. Start a few genre-specific threads ("Is your Rock Music any good," "Is your techno/dance music any good," etc.). Opinions, anyone?[/b][/quote] I know it would be a pain, but it would be nice - even I would do it if I could - if you would delete all the non-music posts or non-music specific replies. Delete all the arguing, bickering and junk including this response - or move that to another thread if you have magic powers. That would be cool. It would make it a lot easier for me to get thru listening to the music. Thanks.

[dave251]

With as much interest as this one topic has generated...maybe a whole new FORUM would be in order...someplace for all of us masochists who like to get beat up can go(I have a fretless acoustic/electric bass that no one would probably want to hear...). Or, maybe divide it up into two topics...criticize my technical aspects/criticize my music...Although the way some of the posts read, the two "seperate" issues are pretty intertwined. Great posts on the topic though...lots of good interaction. I wish I had a cable modem so the downloads didn't take so long. Some of this stuff is way beyond me musically speaking...I don't get it...but I'm trying... Dave This message has been edited by dave@electrocoustic.com on 01-29-2001 at 12:20 AM

[Lee Flier]

Yeah Craig, on the homerecording.com bulletin board they have a whole forum dedicated to people sharing MP3's and offering input about them.... might be a good thing to do here! --Lee

[alphajerk]

lets go for the longest thread EVER!

[Tedster]

Neat, Alpha, but, I find it frustrating to read a post, and then have to page back an unknown number to find what tune the post is referring to. Then again, there are various aspects of this here, like, "great song but need a crisper snare sound"...or "Crappy song but the snare sounds great", or such... I myself would like A) One thread or such devoted to songwriting/production (song needs stronger bridge, and I hear horns in there)... B) One devoted to performance (the drummer's cookin' but the bass player seems uninspired)...and... C) One to engineering/technical (bass too muddy, and use a different mic on the acoustic)... In that order, so one can offer up a rough demo (Is this song worth pursuing, or should I can it)...refine it a bit...(yeah, I like the song and arrangement now, but the horns don't sound as inspired as they should)...commit it to tape (good song, you've got the performance happening, now let's fine tune the technical stuff). Granted, a certain amount of tweaking should be there at all levels, and we're never going to 100 percent please everyone. Just to get ideas, y'know??? Just my 2 cents...

[Tedster]

BTW...I heard this dude at a coffee house once. Wasn't a very good singer or guitar player, but was playing the most amazing original stuff! Then another guy came in, playing and singing amazing versions of cover tunes 'cause he couldn't write for beans. I could see perhaps a similar talent pool evolving here, where everyone can capitalize on their strengths, and shore up their weaknesses.

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by Anderton: [b]1. Just let it keep on rollin' along (I do like the interaction that's happening...)[/b][/quote] Yeah. I don't think it hurts anything, and it holds an identity to itself almost at this point. It started to spill over into other topics at one point I noticed, but that has since stopped... [b]2. Close this thread, and start another from scratch (sort of "Son of Is Your Music Any Good? Find Out Here").[/b] I like knowing the pre-history is available; someone new here, if they chose to do so, can go backwards and find for themselves the nature of the people interacting - for better or worse. So for a separate thread - I don't see the point. Separate forum - I dunno. What has made this so active is the ever present "watchful eye" so to speak of the Rarefied Confirmed Authority Figure: i.e., [i]you[/i], Mr. Craig Anderton. That lends a certain weight here. The possibility that a Confirmed Authority Figure may actually bestow countenance upon one's music probably initially held things in check a bit. That waned a bit after it seemed you were a bit more scarce posting-wise in the thread... at which point things broke down a bit, particularly in light of my participation with another Unnamed Forum Individual. So - a separate forum would be worthwhile providing: A) You had a regular presence there to both lend credibility to the action of posting one's link there, as well as providing something of a latent chaperone effect.... B) There was a certain expectancy of maintaining civility and decorum. However, if this were to happen, I predict you would see an initial spurt of many individual posts regarding each person's own individual music, as one sees on MP3.com's own forum site (which seems curiously locked off at the moment?). Additionally, people would tend to feel compelled to regularly spam the forum to keep their music listed. The result would be seldom would any post actually get more than a cursory review, and probably not any followups; because new posts would be coming in a regular rate, an interesting thread would not be allowed to "grow" due to it constantly being pushed down lower in the message queue. Also, since such things already exist elsewhere on the Net - outside of your own participation it would be somewhat redundant. This reasoning tends to favor keeping the current thread running I think? [b]3. Start a few genre-specific threads ("Is your Rock Music any good," "Is your techno/dance music any good," etc.). [/b] I dislike this for the following reasons: A) It would immediately splinter the strength of the thread into sub-groups - diminishing it's longevity and popularity. B) It forces you into categorizing your music. Based on what I've heard/reviewed here already, the majority is almost non-categorizable, as least in a definitive sense. Because of that you would probably see problems with "that's not rock music", "that's not (insert genre here)", along with multiple redundant crossposts... This thread is starting to get spammy to the point of inevitable ineffectiveness I think. The trick is *your* sporadic participation. EQ magazine has done something tremendously brilliant here; this is an amazing resource to have you Rarefied Confirmed Authority Figures present. It's what makes it worthwhile to post here - I think it keeps the posts a bit more... measured perhaps than in a more generic locale. Ultimately everyone here wants *you* do review/listen/critique their music. However - knowing the players involved here makes the *other* reviews interesting as well, since their *history* is known by reading into the thread. That is *also* an interesting resource. A resource that is dependent upon that "history" being left alone I think. I've been on the Net a looooong time ("since it was black and white (pre-Mosaic days)), and on BBS's before that. I've never encountered such a *truly* diverse group in one forum - usually it's *exactly* the opposite: a bunch of Republicans, a bunch of democrats; fans of a certain basketball team; people interested in one particular rock group. Here, though - let's see, you have a folksinger, an Austrian (please excuse me Kosmolith) classical-goth group, a guy that does sort of post-Athens psychedelic college rock, a loud-mouth abrasive post-80's metal guy, a Keith Richards rocker, a fingerstyle guitarist, a jazz guy, a psychelic organist, another guy that does sort of euro-pop influenced metal, an electronica guy, a rapper, a neo-art-fusion (hmm.. "art fusion".. I'll have to remember that..) bass player - and some nutter that's actually a blues-fusion ex-shredder that is ironically in a new age acoustic phase.... *That's* interesting in itself. Where else am I going to possibly get feedback from the above? If you divide things up - people will migrate accordingly. Boring. --------------- If I were to have any *rules*... I would suggest: Civility and manners required. No one can comment without having their own music readily available for critique. Perhaps beyond that - if there was some way you could filter the thread so that only "senior members" could post, thereby preventing drive-by spamming.... Those three things would improve things dramatically I think. The "never ending thread" seems to be working remarkably well, given what I've seen in my experience, barring the, erm... "minor hiccup apparently precipitated by me inadvertently" (which again, I'm willing to have any of my *non-music* posts deleted in regards to). All in IMHO of course... Man, my verbosity seems to be out of hand, but I *think* I'm being fairly concise and staying pertinent? [b]http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald[/b] This message has been edited by Chip McDonald on 01-29-2001 at 01:46 AM

[Tom Aragon]

(Man of few words here) I say.....[b]Leave it as is.[/b] [b] [url=http://www.mp3.com/tomaragon]Tom Aragon[/url] [/b] [b] [url=http://www.mp3.com/tomaragonII]Tom AragonII[/url] [/b]

[alphajerk]

"Perhaps beyond that - if there was some way you could filter the thread so that only "senior members" could post, thereby preventing drive-by spamming...." thats the best idea i've heard. and raise the total number of posts to aquire it to like 100-200.

[The Studio Pet-Rock]

Spam I am, am I that spam that sounds alot like empty can? It's time for some of us "small timers" to concentrate on a low-fat diet with more substance & less assumption anyway. Ci, Senior Member Diago. Hint taken. Regards.

[Guest]

Here, though - let's see, you have a folksinger, an Austrian (please excuse me Kosmolith) classical-goth group, a guy that does sort of post-Athens psychedelic college rock, a loud-mouth abrasive post-80's metal guy, a Keith Richards rocker, a fingerstyle guitarist, a jazz guy, a psychelic organist, another guy that does sort of euro-pop influenced metal, an electronica guy, a rapper, a neo-art-fusion (hmm.. "art fusion".. I'll have to remember that..) bass player - and some nutter that's actually a blues-fusion ex-shredder that is ironically in a new age acoustic phase.... Oh, no, not Austrian, anything but that! [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] No disrespect to Arnie. NOW I get the Dieter references. A German friend of mine "IS" Mike Mayer's character Dieter, it's pretty humorous- we did some shows together, even. He has an endless stream of gorgeous young girlfriends, maybe it's Nature's compensation for getting carpal tunnel syndrome from "triggering drum loops." [img]http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif[/img] The other half of Kosmolith, Bernarda, is Slovenian, and I am a red-blooded American, which I assumed was obvious from my music and posts. Okay, I grew up in a "multi-cultural" family, and have communicated more in languages other than English for five years or so, but that makes me more of an American in the grand tradition of old than not, and I get pissed off when people here try to explain to me that I am not a "real" American. My father escaped from behind the iron curtain to become an American citizen- some things you just don't disrespect. And I hope noone tries to disrespect my great country by defining what kinds of music Americans are "allowed" to write, or insult her great diversity by jumping to conclusions about the kind of music her citizens grow up with. Reference the Linda Ronstadt interview in December issue of- dare I say it- Mix magazine. No offense, Chip, because it was an honest mistake. As far as "Goth"- and this goes directly to the issue of "is your music any good", because it addresses roots and meanings and intent- when you are listening to a tune I wrote on the day I was awoken by the roar of NATO planes flying overhead on their way to bomb the people my wife grew up with, realize that the sadness and ambiguity you hear didn't come from a poor translation of poetry by some absinthe- sipping French guy. To address "genres", a parable, straight from real life. Once, in Oakland, I watched a verbal confrontation between a white and a black man. After a bit of arguing a bit, the white guy tried to smooth things over by explaining how much he could relate, because he grew up under-priviledged in the ghetto. "What the hell are you talking about", said the black man, "I grew up in a middle class suburban neighborhood and am getting my Masters at Berkley". It's very cool that Mr. Anderton has volunteered to play the devil's advocate and comment on what is "good" from the point of view of an AR man and/or producer engineer in the pop world, but let noone forget, Burger King (that's the metaphor for commercialized music, not Craig) is not the only restaurent in town, regardless of how delicious and affordable their products sometimes are. I am also gabbing too much, but at the moment this is my outlet for cutting loose in my mother tongue, which is American, dammit, not English. http://www.mp3.com/Kosmolith