Nord C3 Combo Organ Official Announcement

[eric]

Originally posted by NuSkoolTone:

Hmmm.. Now THOSE keys look a little more like what I remember. Now I have to go fix my edits!

 

Damn dude, why'd you go bust my chops like that? Takin advantage of a poor boy in the sticks who has only played an Electro once!

Well, you were trying to convince us not once, not twice, but FOUR TIMES that the Electro had lipped keys. Hopefully it is pretty clear now and we have a reference thread (queue Sven's "Use the Search Button" post) for the next time some other whipper-snapper comes along asking questions about waterfall keyboards. We can just reference this thread in all its glory.

 

Getting back on topic now, I am intrigued to see the new red Nord beast, but don't really find myself having any serious bout of GAS for one. As I mentioned before, if I had a bonafide need for a dual manual organ rig, I would probably just add a second Electro 61. But if Nord put all the Clav and EP sounds in the C3, along with a drawbar add-on, I might give it some more consideration.

 

Regards,

Eric

[RichieP_MechE]

Who knew that a dual-manual organ clone could cause so much controversy?

[ITGITC]

You guys are a riot.

 

Waterfall keys?... Lips?...

 

OK. Gotta go... The cables going from my keys to the mixer need polishing.

[Tonysounds]

You may have played one, but I own one Nuskool, and I can tell you unequivocally: it has a waterfall keyboard, no lip.

 

As a Hammond lover myself, I thought getting used to the drawbuttons was a downside, and went and bought a drawbar controller for it (right Eric?!!). It was nice, on a beautifully stained red piece of wood (right Eric!?). And after two shows of setting up the xtra crap, I sold it back to the original owner (right Eric!?!). *By the way, I should add here that I might be the only person with suffers with GAS as chronically as Eric or slightly moreso. We don't talk often enough, but when we do, it's "so what's new in the rig!?"

 

MY NAME IS TONY, AND IM A gearJUNKIE. "HI TONY."

 

Anyhow, what I loved about the Electro, over my CX3 and BX3 (analogs), VK7, Voce V5, Hammond XK2, XK3, XK1, XM2 and B4 was the fact that I could visually see what my preset was. WOW, that became a huge thing to me, that when I did integrate the drawbars into the equation, I felt the trade-off was too great.

 

The buttons are different, but I have grown to really like them.

 

As a standalone keyboard with leslie sim, the Electro is really unsurpassed IMO. The XK3/XK1 got the percussion better, and grinds a little harder (midrange), but the leslie sim: eccch. Only B4 has a better leslie sim on board.

 

I do agree that they may have dropped the ball losing the pianos. And they better have left the ring modulator in!

[Tonysounds]

Oh jeez...my post looks like the drunk who just woke up an hour after the family discussion and piped up!

 

And as for GAS on this one, I don't see it for myself either. My Electro 73 is plenty enough "dual manual" for me. But there is another clone due this year (I saw pics of the prototype) that will BLOW YOU AWAY in terms of its ergonomics.

 

It is 99.994% faithful to the venerable BEAST of which we strive to clone; everything is where it's 'supposed to be'. And historically, its predecessors have been very authentic. Don't know if it's being shown at NAMM, but I would be surprised if it isn't.

 

This new single manual clone will weigh twice what the dual manual C3 does. I might have GAS for that one.

[lowerhodes]

The reason, for those who seem confounded, that it does not have drawbars is because that is Clavia's long established modus operandi. I don't believe they are targeting traditional B3 players. They are targeting gigging keyboardists who, like most of us, are not Joey D and whose playing is not the focal point of their bands and whose bass players forbid us to kick bass and for whom size and weight are a priority. In other words, they are offering an alternative to the Hammond and Korg double manuals. That said, the new "2nd Generation Model" had better be a significant improvement (which would be quite a feat as I think it sounds good as it is) or I suspect guys will just get an NE2 and a 61 key controller and MIDI them up. It would mean two boards to carry but the cumulative weight would be the same or less and be much cheaper. I would have thought that they might want to try a keybed with a traditional B3 action to forestall that but we'll see.

[Bobadohshe]

Originally posted by konaboy:

Nah, I'll stick with my home-made dual-manual Nord rigs:

 

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/6937/1986/320/DSC00821.jpg

 

That, if I may say so, is beautiful.

[jook]

Originally posted by NuSkoolTone:

I take it back that the new C3 has improper keys. Weird though cause the one I played didn't have keys like that! Maybe it was an electro 1 and not a 2?

Maybe I'm losin it, but I swore it was an Electro.

When I saw it I made sure to play it because it was my first time where one of the stores had one. It was next to a G2X and a NL3. It had an organ section, a Piano section and an FX section.

I'd put money on the fact that you were actually playing a Nord Stage, and thinking it was a Nord Electro.

 

That, or you were smoking something. 'fess up.

 

[psst, the 'photoshop' stuff was sarcasm]

[Jim Alfredson]

Originally posted by lowerhodes:

The reason, for those who seem confounded, that it does not have drawbars is because that is Clavia's long established modus operandi. I don't believe they are targeting traditional B3 players. They are targeting gigging keyboardists who, like most of us, are not Joey D and whose playing is not the focal point of their bands and whose bass players forbid us to kick bass and for whom size and weight are a priority.

Why do those players then need a double manual that only does organ? Wouldn't it be better to have an Electro and another board that has all the other sounds?

[lowerhodes]

Originally posted by B3-er:

Originally posted by lowerhodes:

The reason, for those who seem confounded, that it does not have drawbars is because that is Clavia's long established modus operandi. I don't believe they are targeting traditional B3 players. They are targeting gigging keyboardists who, like most of us, are not Joey D and whose playing is not the focal point of their bands and whose bass players forbid us to kick bass and for whom size and weight are a priority.

Why do those players then need a double manual that only does organ? Wouldn't it be better to have an Electro and another board that has all the other sounds?

Chording with one drawbar / C-V setting with one hand and soloing with another drawbar / C-V setting with the other hand. Happens all the time.

[NuSkoolTone]

Originally posted by eric:

Originally posted by NuSkoolTone:

Hmmm.. Now THOSE keys look a little more like what I remember. Now I have to go fix my edits!

 

Damn dude, why'd you go bust my chops like that? Takin advantage of a poor boy in the sticks who has only played an Electro once!

Well, you were trying to convince us not once, not twice, but FOUR TIMES that the Electro had lipped keys. Hopefully it is pretty clear now and we have a reference thread (queue Sven's "Use the Search Button" post) for the next time some other whipper-snapper comes along asking questions about waterfall keyboards. We can just reference this thread in all its glory.

 

Getting back on topic now, I am intrigued to see the new red Nord beast, but don't really find myself having any serious bout of GAS for one. As I mentioned before, if I had a bonafide need for a dual manual organ rig, I would probably just add a second Electro 61. But if Nord put all the Clav and EP sounds in the C3, along with a drawbar add-on, I might give it some more consideration.

 

Regards,

Eric

The thing is when I say "Those look like the keys I remember", I mea n with the lip! LOL I see a crease in the "Outed" "Non photshopped" picture.

 

So to be clear then, That was NOT a PS job? Honestly, I'm not trying to troll here or be a jerk. Either I have a faulty (Short term) memory, or there is something significant I missed when I checked out the board.

[Bridog6996]

Originally posted by lowerhodes:

Originally posted by B3-er:

Originally posted by lowerhodes:

The reason, for those who seem confounded, that it does not have drawbars is because that is Clavia's long established modus operandi. I don't believe they are targeting traditional B3 players. They are targeting gigging keyboardists who, like most of us, are not Joey D and whose playing is not the focal point of their bands and whose bass players forbid us to kick bass and for whom size and weight are a priority.

Why do those players then need a double manual that only does organ? Wouldn't it be better to have an Electro and another board that has all the other sounds?

Chording with one drawbar / C-V setting with one hand and soloing with another drawbar / C-V setting with the other hand. Happens all the time.

That is true. Having the second manual is pretty key (pun slightly intended) for serious organ playing. However, what would be even better is be able to do that PLUS also comp with an EP on the bottom keyboard while soloing with organ on top if you wanted to. I tell you, if the C3 had the EPs included, I would want one BAD. The way it is now though...meh. Sure, it would be nice, but for my purposes not worth the money.

 

They had nothing to lose and everything to gain by including the EPs. I still think they dropped the ball.

[kanker.]

Originally posted by B3-er:

Why do those players then need a double manual that only does organ? Wouldn't it be better to have an Electro and another board that has all the other sounds?

You have to remember that there were what, 250,000 B3 series Hammonds produced? That includes C3's and A1xx's. They're aging, expensive, and hard to find. There a LOTS of folks out there who have little to no real Hammond experience, but want something that at least gives them that impression. How many keyboard players are there in the world? A HELL of a lot more than there are Hammonds. I'm a longtime Hammond owner who has really gotten used to the drawbuittons, and I actually enjoy them, and can easily manipulate them while playing, and unlike a real Hammond, can easily manipulate them with both hands on the keyboard.

 

 

Regarding the keys everybody, they are the same as the Electro ergo they will in fact transmit velocity.

[kanker.]

Also, according to Synthlord who works for the US Clavia distributor, adding the EP's would have raised the price significantly.

 

Also, the second generation organ sound will not be making its way into the Electro or the Stage according to him.

[lowerhodes]

Originally posted by Bridog6996:

"That is true. Having the second manual is pretty key (pun slightly intended) for serious organ playing. However, what would be even better is be able to do that PLUS also comp with an EP on the bottom keyboard while soloing with organ on top if you wanted to. I tell you, if the C3 had the EPs included, I would want one BAD. The way it is now though...meh. Sure, it would be nice, but for my purposes not worth the money.

They had nothing to lose and everything to gain by including the EPs. I still think they dropped the ball. "

 

I won't be interested either unless the 2nd Generation Tonewheel Model is a substantial improvement (unlikely). Even so, any disappointment in it could be countered by more tweakable leslie ramp times, key click etc.

[b3_john]

Its not a total loss. By busch's calculations I just saved $2700 today. That's an Eric Johnson strat and a throwback Twin Reverb right there.

 

John

[zxcvbnm098]

I have THOROUGHLY enjoyed reading all of the comments on the new 'board, reinforcing how much I dig the forum. I'm looking forward to actually test driving this tomorrow at NAMM.

 

My thoughts: I agree, the loss of the rest of the Electro sounds is a big bummer, and although I am no software engineer, I find it surprising that that would add a considerable cost to add in. That should have been the goal in the initial development, and I think it could have been done with a nominal incremental cost had it been.

 

Secondly, I have always understood that the bulk of Hammond's revenue come from the church market, and not from the Pro world. Anyone that has visited Hammond at NAMM knows they have a VERY small presence in terms of booth size, and I recall a couple of years ago they didn't even show at NAMM. They do the regional gospel and church trade shows because that's where they make their dough. Ergo, the bulk of the market for dual manual organs is the church market, and I think this will not address their needs at all.

 

On the flip side, Clavia is a European company. I think this may work much better in a region where the real deal is hard to come by, and they don't have a market that has extensive experience playing authentic Hammonds with real drawbars. My guess is they do about half of their business ex-US, so this can be a Clavia success without being a big seller in the US. While small and light is important to us here in the US, it is even more crucial to Europe, where cars are much smaller and public transportation much more ubiquitus.

 

In the end , this is not my cup of tea, but thinking globally, they should do well with it.

[eric]

Originally posted by NuSkoolTone:

The thing is when I say "Those look like the keys I remember", I mea n with the lip! LOL I see a crease in the "Outed" "Non photshopped" picture.

 

So to be clear then, That was NOT a PS job? Honestly, I'm not trying to troll here or be a jerk. Either I have a faulty (Short term) memory, or there is something significant I missed when I checked out the board.

 

NuSkool - I promise you 2 things in all seriousness:

 

1) No PhotoShop was used in any of my pictures in this thread. I do not own PS or know how to use it.

 

2) The Electro's keyboard is squared-off with no lip on the keys. A true waterfall keyboard.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[david.edwards8]

I was really hoping - not expecting but hoping - that Clavia were going to release something that looked just like this but was just the bottom manual (MIDI controller with the same action as electro) and casing.

 

Take off the wooden ends of your existing electro, drop in on the top and voila! A 2 manual organ upgrade.

 

I mean, this does look great and I do want one, but how can most electro owners justify the cost? And what more does it offer over my idea? Two sets of 'drawbars' (one switchable set is not a problem for the non-purist) and the vox / farfisa sounds (which are a nice touch but only a little icing on the cake)

 

An upgrade kit for standard electro would be a 'must have' for many existing owners, surely.

[konaboy]

david, your idea is great. I like it. Electro 73 owners would be out of luck though, unless they were offered a 73-note weighted keyboard - that would be sweet.

[david.edwards8]

Originally posted by konaboy:

david, your idea is great. I like it. Electro 73 owners would be out of luck though, unless they were offered a 73-note weighted keyboard - that would be sweet.

Thanks. There's no reason there shouldn't be a longer version for 73 owners. Still 61 standard action keys on the bottom, just a little blank space. (Somewhere to put the optional drawbars? :-0 )

[b3_john]

Originally posted by zxcvbnm098:

... although I am no software engineer, I find it surprising that that would add a considerable cost to add in. That should have been the goal in the initial development, and I think it could have been done with a nominal incremental cost had it been.

Synthlord over at the nordusa.com forums suggested adding an electro rack to this. Which, since THAT already has the electronics for one organ manual anyway, adding the EPs shouldn't have been all that difficult (or expensive, IMO). Maybe, MAYBE? another five bills to the retail price would be my guess. Obviously they have access to their own market research (and we don't) but judging by the reaction I still think they missed what looks to me like a significant target audience. I hope that's not lost on them...

 

John

[David Loving]

Yes a rack would work just fine for eps, and a rack is red, too

[BigJPatton]

I don't see what the big deal is, obviously this thing is for a specific player- gigging organists who don't want to lug around a heavy console, if you want the drawbars get a Hammond, if you want EP's get an Electro or any of the other dozens of keyboards that can do it all, if you just need a dual manual organ that won't break your back or wallet this is THE board right now with no competition IMO.

[Jim Alfredson]

Originally posted by zxcvbnm098:

On the flip side, Clavia is a European company. I think this may work much better in a region where the real deal is hard to come by, and they don't have a market that has extensive experience playing authentic Hammonds with real drawbars. My guess is they do about half of their business ex-US, so this can be a Clavia success without being a big seller in the US. While small and light is important to us here in the US, it is even more crucial to Europe, where cars are much smaller and public transportation much more ubiquitus.

Great, so now when I do international festivals, they'll be trying to pass one of these off as a "Hammond" for me to play!

 

No thanks!

 

I don't see what the big deal is, obviously this thing is for a specific player- gigging organists who don't want to lug around a heavy console

And who don't want pedals, reverse preset keys, drawbars, etc.

 

The XK System is not heavy, especially comparing it to a real tonewheel console. Each part is about 40 lbs, but it's solid wood and does not move around on stage once you put it there. It FEELS solid, like a real console, because it is.

 

Also, unless Nord starts making a case for this, expect to spend $250 to $300 for a good, custom case.

[Federico78]

Originally posted by zxcvbnm098:

On the flip side, Clavia is a European company. I think this may work much better in a region where the real deal is hard to come by, and they don't have a market that has extensive experience playing authentic Hammonds with real drawbars. My guess is they do about half of their business ex-US, so this can be a Clavia success without being a big seller in the US. While small and light is important to us here in the US, it is even more crucial to Europe, where cars are much smaller and public transportation much more ubiquitus.

 

In the end , this is not my cup of tea, but thinking globally, they should do well with it.

Right thoughts, I totally agree with you.

Let us know your impression about the sound of the Nord C3, I'm curious about the new model of tonewheels and if the leslie was enhanced.

[Federico78]

Originally posted by B3-er:

The XK System is not heavy, especially comparing it to a real tonewheel console. Each part is about 40 lbs, but it's solid wood and does not move around on stage once you put it there. It FEELS solid, like a real console, because it is.

 

Hi B3-er,

what leslie do you use to amplify your XK-System?

Did you change the XK-3 tubes? How do you feel in terms of sound with XK-System compared to the real thing?

 

Thanks and excuse me for all these questions

[DanL]

Originally posted by NuSkoolTone:

]To quote clavia:

- Dual 61-note manuals, same keybeds as Electro 61

 

I've played the electro, they are NOT TRUE waterfall keys. They are a hybrid and have a lip on the end that helps facilitate a piano feel.

 

Since this is strictly an organ, there should be NO Lip IMO.

 

Now stop trying to give ME lip! [/QB]

I'm sitting here with an Electro. The keys do NOT have a lip on them. They are waterfall keys. edit to add- it's an Electro 1, so no go on that theory either.

[ITGITC]

Originally posted by B3-er:

...unless Nord starts making a case for this, expect to spend $250 to $300 for a good, custom case.

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/1/0/1/279101.jpg

 

SKB 5817W for my Kurzweil PC2X - $465

 

I don't think a case for a double-manual organ would be much less than this.

 

Plus, it would have to be RED.

[Legatoboy]

Hi Everybody,

 

Not for nothing, and I hate to complicate this at this time, but I'm curious as to what the new sample sounds like on the C3.

 

I had sold my CX-3 in favor of upgrading to an XK-3 2 years ago. Without a doubt the XK-3 with my Speakeasy Classic Pre and 145 Leslie kicked serious butt over the CX-3 w/145 Leslie. But, I missed the action on the CX-3 and through a simple amp, the XK-3's Leslie sim. wasn't working for me with the band and I missed the CX-3 vibe overall! I decided to by another CX-3 at that point for my smaller gigs.

 

I looked at the Clavia's organs and I liked them but in GC going back and forth between the two trying to decide on weather to get a CX-3 or a Nord Electro 61 I noticed a characteristic of the Nord's sound that I personally had a problem with. I noticed a hint of it originally listening to somebody at a big blues festival show using one with no Leslie, outdoors on a large stage.

 

It was certain graniness and a slight high end distortion. It made me feel like the organ sound wasn't getting over the top sonically to describe it in simple terms! When I compared it to the Korg side by side I really noticed it. I found it just distracting enough to head me back to the CX-3 as my next purchase! Again to describe it, it was like a slight phasing in the drawbar sound when pulling out the upper drawbars and using the sim.! Maybe I just got used to the Korg drawbar sound, maybe not!

 

I had previously heared the organist/pianist in Room Full of Blues use a Nord Electro 73 one night on a double bill we did with them at the Bottom Line in NYC and I was pretty impressed with the Nord's sound and sim. that night, that kid (young man) is a very nice player btw, he was 19 years old then! But I noticed the problems I just mentioned years after I had been using my Korg for a few years!

 

I'm personally wondering if the new sample on the C3 is any cleaner than the old one! That would really matter to me if I were interested in buying a C3 first-off! Just some sidecar input to the C3 argument!

 

Please Nord owners, I think their great instruments, I like them better now than I used to!

 

LB