Jazz+ Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 A friend of mine commented that "Spain" (1972 by Chick Corea) was the last tune written that could really be called a Jazz Standard. Can you name a more recent widely known, performed, and recorded Jazz Standard among jazz musicians? Jazzstandards.com - catalogue of over 1000 standards, ranked by the number of jazz artists who have recorded each one; also historical and biographical information http://www.jazzstandards.com/compositions/index.htm Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
konaboy Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 awesome site, thanks for the link. The musical analysis of each tune is especially interesting, together with all the other info it is really mind boggling. to answer your question - Birdland appears in a few real books, as do a number of Stevie Wonder tunes. I've seen more than one jazz band play "Isn't she lovely" and "You are the sunshine". Do they qualify as jazz standards though? hang out with me at woody piano shack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moj Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Europa - Santana Sudden Samba - Neil Larsen Shaker Song - Spyro Gyra Memories of Tommorrow - Keith Jarrett Pieces of a Dream - Stanley turrantine Affirmation - Geroge Benson Breezin' - George Benson Mr. Magic - Grover Washington Jr. These are tunes that I play regularly with groups and jam sessions. If you consider *Acid Jazz* as a legitimate form of jazz, then you could add a lot of other more recent and current tunes that get the "jazz treatment". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Definitely "Birdland" and "Mr. Magic," as far as being commonly played. A lot of what Mojazz lists falls into the more smooth territory, by my judgement. Other Keith tunes I hear played fairly often are "Spiral Dance" and "Long As You Know You're Living Yours." Some of McCoy's tunes, as well, like "Happy Days," remind me of those Sonny Rollins calypso tunes. David My Site Nord Electro 5D, Novation Launchkey 61, Logic Pro X, Mainstage 3, lots of plugins, fingers, pencil, paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Originally posted by David R: Other Keith tunes I hear played fairly often are "Spiral Dance" and "Long As You Know You're Living Yours." Wonderful songs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Zeger Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 "Chameleon" perhaps? That was a little later than "Spain". I could see a few more Metheny tunes becoming Real Book entries, like "So May It Secretly Begin", "James", and "Always and Forever". "April Joy" and "Jaco" are already in the RB though not often played. "Bright Size Life" is almost a modern standard for guitar players. Originally posted by David R: Other Keith tunes I hear played fairly often are "Spiral Dance" and "Long As You Know You're Living Yours." I was playing "Long As You Know..." last night. Love "Belonging". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzed Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 How long does it usually take for a song to become a standard anyway? Have the more recent songs had the time yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moj Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Originally posted by David R: Definitely "Birdland" and "Mr. Magic," as far as being commonly played. A lot of what Mojazz lists falls into the more smooth territory, by my judgement. Your remark regarding the tunes I listed as "more smooth territory" implies that they are not considered Jazz Standards. Only the tunes by Spyro Gyro and Grover Washington Jr. are considered "smooth jazz" in general. The other's are jazz, pop, rock or fusion tunes. Europa - Santana Sudden Samba - Neil Larsen Shaker Song - Spyro Gyra Memories of Tommorrow - Keith Jarrett Pieces of a Dream - Stanley Turrentine Affirmation - George Benson Breezin' - George Benson Mr. Magic - Grover Washington Jr. As you should know, any tune can be played, (arranged or improvised) using the melody of the aforementioned tunes. What is done with it determines whether it's thought of as a "pop-style" or "jazz-style" performance. Take any of the tunes and give it the "jazz treatment" ie. reharmonisation, altering the melody, a different rhythmic foundation, etc. and they take on the characteristics of what many will considered to be "jazz". I don't think i've ever played or heard these tunes played as a note-for-note cover versions of the original recordings. They're played with the same kind of approached that a tune from the Great American Song Book would received albeit with more of a funk rhythm then say a swing beat. These tunes are very popular in many jazz jam sessions, that is why I call them Jazz Standards. Here's an interesting book from Sher Publishing The tunes below are included in Chuck Sher's The Standards Real Book Saving All My Love For You Piano In The Dark Pick Up The Pieces One Hundred Ways Minute By Minute Something To Talk About Song For You, A Soul Man Suite Judy Blue Eyes Valdez in the Country I don't think you could call these Jazz Standards, however, they are popular enough to be call Standards, played anyway you like smooth or a bit rough. And look who is endorsing this book, the guru of piano jazz theory, Mark Levine. "Sher Music's Real Book series just keeps on getting better and better. The Standards Real Book is the closest thing in print to The Great American Song Book." Mark Levine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted September 10, 2006 Author Share Posted September 10, 2006 Mark Levine has a vested interest in promoting anything Sher Music does, it's his publisher. Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordude Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Weather Report's Birdland and A Remark You Made qualify for the standard status, IMHO. And Jaco's Continuum, Pat Metheny's Have You Heard and some others perhaps do as well. I always considered Skunk Funk (Brecker Brothers) as a landmark tune as well, but it's not a very easy tune to play, so when a standard is supposed to be played and be able to get adaptations and all, then Skunk Funk gets a "no". To me, it's not directly the inclusion in one or the other self-crowned "Real Book" which is deciding. It's the strenght of the composition (and not necessarily the performance as recorded) that counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David R Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Originally posted by mojazz: Originally posted by David R: Definitely "Birdland" and "Mr. Magic," as far as being commonly played. A lot of what Mojazz lists falls into the more smooth territory, by my judgement. Your remark regarding the tunes I listed as "more smooth territory" implies that they are not considered Jazz Standards. Only the tunes by Spyro Gyro and Grover Washington Jr. are considered "smooth jazz" in general. The other's are jazz, pop, rock or fusion tunes. Very true, and I'm aware that any tune can be played in any style (whether it works or not is another story). I've always been baffled at the inclusion of pretty much straight-up pop tunes ("After the Love Has Gone" by EW&F, for instance) in the New Real Books or other resources of that ilk, just in terms of context. The Fifth Edition Real Book, and its large doses of Metheny, Steve Swallow, Mike Gibbs and even Zappa, at least corresponds to its apocryphal tale (put together by a bunch of former and then-current Berklee students; Swallow's rumoured to have had large participation in the book). Maybe it's just the different geographical circles we run in, Mojazz, but I've never heard anybody play the Santana, Spyro Gyra or Neil Larsen tunes you've mentioned. David My Site Nord Electro 5D, Novation Launchkey 61, Logic Pro X, Mainstage 3, lots of plugins, fingers, pencil, paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridog6996 Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Same here. I've done tons of jam sessions in my day, and I've never heard anybody call one of those tunes. It's not that they're bad tunes, but they're certainly not what I would call standards. My YouTube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Horne Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Saving All My Love For You No guitarists were harmed during the making of this message. In general, harmonic complexity is inversely proportional to the ratio between chording and non-chording instruments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linwood Posted September 10, 2006 Share Posted September 10, 2006 Hey Dave...You sing that one, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 The tunes mentioned above seem to mostly fall into what Chuck Sher's books classify as: "Pop-Fusion Classics" (Crusaders, Spyro Gyra, Benson, etc.) "Contemporary Jazz and Jazz Fussion" (Corea, Brecker, Weather Report, etc.) "Brazilian Classics" (Jobim, Lins, Bonfa, etc.) "Jazz Classics" (Giant Steps, Oleo, Bag's Groove, Tune Up, etc.) "Choice Standards" (Gershwin, Porter, Rodgers, etc.) is the category Sher uses for what people call The Great American Songbook. These are the tunes most often "chosen." Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Ha... I often have a bit of fun with my improvisation students, by asking them the title of the most corny pop song they can think of, and giving it a Bill Evans treatment on the spot... Nothing better to open their ears to the marvels of harmony! (Yeah, I know I could just play Bill's version of "Santa Claus is Coming to Town", but it's not widely known in Italy, so that would detract from the effect) Just a way to alleviate the load of long teaching hours. Hope to change that soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marino Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Back to topic... Chick's "500 Miles High" and "Windows", or Herbie's "One Finger Snap" and "Dolphin Dance" come to mind as modern standards, but they are even older than "Spain". Once, a sax player called for Steps Ahead's "Pools" (by Don Grolnick). But he had brought written parts for everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 1986 Chan's Song - Hancock 1980 Love Dance - Ivan Lins 1979 Close Enough for Love - Mandel 1976 Isn't She Lovely - Stevie Wonder 1975 The Peacocks - Jimmy Rowles 1974 Everything Must Change - Benard Ighner 1973 Send in the Clowns - Sondheim 1972 Spain - Corea Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazz+ Posted September 11, 2006 Author Share Posted September 11, 2006 The 1970s-2000 in Song "Prior to the 1960s, popular songs were the primary source for the majority of entries on the jazz standards list. There were significantly fewer in the decade from 1960-1970, where the mix of popular song, songs from Broadway shows, and jazz originals is, for the first time, evenly balanced. The jazz standards list from the decade 1970-1980 has only 14 tunes, of which one, Superstition, comes from pop music, and one (Send in the Clowns) from a Broadway show. The remaining songs are jazz originals, as is the only tune from the 1980s, Love Dance. Although during the 70s and 80s there were pop songs with melodies and harmonies capable of being adapted as jazz vehicles, musicians seemed to be either going back to the music before the 1960s (especially tunes classified as jazz standards) or writing their own material. If the trend of popular music continues to move away from melody and harmony into rhythmic based music (hip hop and rap), in may be an indication that jazz musicians will continue to look to older material or originals for their repertoire." http://www.jazzstandards.com/history/history-7.htm Harry Likas was the Technical Editor of Mark Levine's "The Jazz Theory Book" and helped develop "The Jazz Piano Book." Find 700 of Harry’s piano arrangements of standards for educational purposes and jazz piano tutorials at www.Patreon.com/HarryLikas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 "Saving All My Love For You" Hey, have you heard Lester Bowie's version? Mal Waldron tried to create a few albums using modern pop tunes as jazz vehicles in the 70s and Herbie's tried it more recently. Nothing's really become a standard though. Over here inthe UK, you do hear quite a few people play Stevie Wonder's Visions and a few of his tunes have become standards of a sort. Nice analysis Jazz+ http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DafDuc Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Girl from IpaNaima? It SHOULD be a standard. And I got one up my sleeve too. It's been there for almost a year. But I have a note from my doctor. Anyhow, it's melodic enough to be a standard. Whether it ever sees the light of day would be an entirely different question. I played in an 8 piece horn band. We would often get bored. So...three words: "Tower of Polka." - Calumet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 DafDuc, Girl from Ipanema was written in 1962: way before Spain! There are lots of Jobim songs that deserve to be/are standards. http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DafDuc Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 No no no. IpaNaima, not Ipanema. Written by KC's own Richard Whitehouse (forgetting his screen handle now). Included melodic and rhythmic elements from both Jobim's and Coltrane's classics. It was on KC Comp CD 10. I played in an 8 piece horn band. We would often get bored. So...three words: "Tower of Polka." - Calumet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Cheers, I wondered how Naima had snuck in there. I'd like to hear that. Sorry for biting the wrong end of the stick! http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DafDuc Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 He posted a chart. I'll see if I can find a link. I played in an 8 piece horn band. We would often get bored. So...three words: "Tower of Polka." - Calumet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DafDuc Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Here we go. And his board name is Floyd Tatum. http://www.richardwhitehouse.ca/images/GirlFromIpaNaima.jpg I played in an 8 piece horn band. We would often get bored. So...three words: "Tower of Polka." - Calumet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guestuserguestuser.com Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Thanks for the plug, DafDuc! I think of Girl From IpaNaima as more of an arrangement than an original composition. But it's an arrangement of two tunes glued together, mixed with a smattering of original composition. If that became a standard, I'd freak! I'd also likely get sued by the estates of Jobim and Coltrane, so let's just keep it to ourselves, ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil W Posted September 11, 2006 Share Posted September 11, 2006 Well I have it printed out so I'll try to play it tonight. Don't worry, I won't record it and release it on a majotr label or anything! http://philwbass.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Schmieder Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 It seems that some are focusing on composition vs. recording. It has always been my understanding that something becomes a "jazz" standard once a popular jazz performer integrates it into their repertoire, either via live performances or via recording. For instance, "Someday My Prince Will Come" is a jazz standard because Miles Davis recorded it. The story for compositions written by Miles Davis himself, is slightly different -- though when dealing with someone of that stature, probably almost everything that he wrote himself is by now considered a standard. Compositions such as "Watermelon Man" may not have become "standards" if they had not been re-recorded by so many other artists. After all, isn't that what makes it a standard, as opposed to whether the original source recording is simply liked by a whole lot of people? I too would be interested to see a list of what is considered a standard following the early 70's. I just replaced my "Real Books" with the new "official" ones (I felt guilty about the old ones, but there was no option at the time). I haven't yet looked thoroughly at Volume 3 (which just arrived last week) to see what it has in the way of newer compositions. Eugenio Upright, 60th Anniversary P-Bass, USA Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, D'angelico SS Bari, EXL1, Select Strat, 70th Anniversary Esquire, LP 57, Eastman T486, T64, Ibanez PM2, Hammond XK4, Moog Voyager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fulc Posted September 12, 2006 Share Posted September 12, 2006 Originally posted by Mark Zeger: I could see a few more Metheny tunes becoming Real Book entries, like "So May It Secretly Begin", "James", and "Always and Forever". "April Joy" and "Jaco" are already in the RB though not often played. "Bright Size Life" is almost a modern standard for guitar players.Interesting choices those, though I'd have to guess that more than one child walking around today was probably conceived to Are You Going With Me. Originally posted by David R: "Long As You Know You're Living Yours." Of course, the fact that Steely Dan nicked a few pieces of that one for Gaucho doesn't hurt either. The Womb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.