2 Tier Stands

[JamesInPA]

Can anyone recommend a 2 tier stand that gets the keyboards close together like the old invisible stands did? What is your choice for the best 2 tier stand?

[Ed A.]

I liked the Invisible stands too. They should re-release them, there seems to be a demand. I don't know of anything else like them.

[CEB]

No.   Nonethat I’m immediately aware of.  There are stands available I like.  They aren’t like the invisibles.   
 

PS I like a little space though.  Generally I need control panel access without putting the top board too far away from my torso.  

[AnotherScott]

K&M 18880 with 1881 stacker, with the stacker flipped backwards (facing away from you).

 

Tip: Always put the bottom keyboard on the stand first. With nothing on the bottom, if you put a board on the top (esp. if it is somewhat heavy), it may want to tip backwards.

 

Also, depending on the height of your bottom board, you still might not get the two as close as you'd like. In that case, you can attach risers to the bottom platform to raise it relative to the second platform, and/or modify the top one so that it can sit lower than originally designed.

[Dave Number Four]

Does this work for your needs?

 

It can go as low as you want, and also change the angle of the upper tier. I don't use it that low since I need to see the YC controls. 

 

On-Stage KS7365EJ

 

Or is there something about the invisible stands I'm missing?

 

[brenner13]

I’ve got several including an Invisible.
 

Have been gigging nearly every weekend with OnStage Z 2-tier as shown above; VR09 on top of Studiologic Numa Compact X SE. Lovin it!

[lsj]

standtastic 2 tier or 3 tier stands.  very adjustable and really solid and stable, absolutely no rocking.

[Stokely]

I have a standtastic (bought very cheap used), I find them a bit too fiddly for me.   Granted you get flexibility like crazy on position and angles, but they take more time and effort to set up for my liking.   I'll admit I'm quite the impatient set up person though--I have a couple musician friends that take 20-30 minutes to set up and I couldn't stomach that.   They also have quite a deep footprint if that matters for your stages.  I don't think there's a way to have a mic stand attachment on those (I may be mistaken), that's something I really value as then I only need to bring a telescoping boom that fits in my cable case.

I used an Onstage Z for many a gig, still using it at home and the only negative really for that was that it's clunky to transport if you keep it together.

My two stands now are both K&M, a spider pro and an omega pro.  I prefer the Omega with one keyboard, and (slightly) prefer the spider for two.  The Omega 2nd tier is terrible for getting the keyboards close together, though I've seen a hack using the 3rd tier that allows it.   I don't have a long heavy keyboard, so the spider wouldn't be for those that want no flexing (the weight limit is quite high so I'm not worried about failure).

[AnotherScott]

Standtastic has its pros and cons, but it does not let you get boards close together in the way an Invisble does. You need to be able to get the tio board vertically close to the bottom board, and largely behind it as well. On the Standtastic, if the boards are vertically close, you can't move the top board back by very much; if you raise the arms to allow the top board to be largely behind the bottom one, it will no longer be vertically close.

[analogman1]

To piggyback on this thread..

I'm cutting back to one keyboard and a laptop.

Is there anything out there that's easy to set up but NOT an "X Stand"?

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, analogman1 said:

To piggyback on this thread..

I'm cutting back to one keyboard and a laptop.

Is there anything out there that's easy to set up but NOT an "X Stand"?

 

In general, my answer is still K&M 18880, but there are other options as well, the 18880 is just a particularly light one.

 

Do you need something specifically with a laptop attachment?

[niacin]

stand of your choice + a saw, add a touch of black paint to prevent rust.

[analogman1]

Hi Scott,

yes, having a laptop stand would help. It would give me the option of using the laptop for certain gigs. 
Right now, I’m taking a separate laptop stand; I’d love to be able to avoid that. 
is the 18880 stand quick to set up, live? 

[Stokely]

11 hours ago, analogman1 said:

To piggyback on this thread..

I'm cutting back to one keyboard and a laptop.

Is there anything out there that's easy to set up but NOT an "X Stand"?

It's expensive (especially for us here in the states now that Thomann won't ship K&M to the states), and not light, but it doesn't get much easier nor sturdier (if you need that) than the K&M Omega Pro.   Completely open underneath too.  Mic stand attachments will cost you though.  There is a laptop attachment that goes around a leg of the stand, I've thought about picking that up to put my ipad and monitor mixer on, if not a laptop.

There is (was?) a stand made by Knox that is very inexpensive that people here had favorable opinions of.   It's the one with an accordion-style back brace.  It folded flat, big plus, but unlike an x stand you could adjust the height without sacrificing width.  My main beef with X stands is that I can't get them quite tall enough for me when I stand to play.  The lower braces are also in the way too much.   Unfortunately this stand is not available on Amazon anymore, though last I checked it was still at Walmart.

 

[niacin]

49 minutes ago, analogman1 said:

is the 18880 stand quick to set up, live? 

it takes a second, literally.

[DJkeys]

Another vote for K&M 18880 and 18881 stacker.  You don't have to reverse the second tier if you drill an additional hole to lower it. Great stand, weighs nothing, sturdy, folds flat.  Best I ever owned, and I have two Invisible stands-

 

 

[analogman1]

The 18880 looks like it could work.

Can it go high enough to play, while standing? 

(I have the K & M Spider Pro, which is too heavy and bulky.)

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

13 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 

Also, depending on the height of your bottom board, you still might not get the two as close as you'd like. In that case, you can attach risers to the bottom platform to raise it relative to the second platform, and/or modify the top one so that it can sit lower than originally designed.

I did both of those mods to my Knox Z stand and matching Knox 2nd tier.....  I used a Sawzall to trim down the 2nd tier uprights by a couple inches, and added some 1x1 square tubing to the lower tier to raise my KB by an inch there.  It's way better than the gaping huge gab between the boards like it used to be!

[AnotherScott]

9 hours ago, niacin said:

it takes a second, literally.

Well, literally, a bit more than that. 🙂 But yes, the 18880 sets up very fast.

 

Assuming you tightened the two knobs for transport, you hand loosen the two knobs, spread the two sides, and then hand tighten the two knobs. Maybe 10-15 seconds? If you use the cross brace, maybe another 5-10 seconds for that? And if you flip the top tiers backwards but choose not to transport it that way (because it takes more room), maybe another 20 seconds to loosen those arms, flip them, and re-tighten them. So I'd say well under a minute, even "worst case" if you need to do all of those things.

 

9 hours ago, DJkeys said:

Another vote for K&M 18880 and 18881 stacker.  You don't have to reverse the second tier if you drill an additional hole to lower it.

 

Reversing it is not about lowering its height (the height of that those arms is determined by the available holes--or your willingness to not use any of them--regardless of whether it is facing forward or backward). What reversing it can do is potentially allow you to rest the front of the top board directly on the rear of the bottom board, with the arms supporting the rear of the board. So--assuming your bottom board permits it--you could reduce the space between your top and bottom boards to, literally, zero. (And again, depending on the boards, you still may want to make small mods, like drilling additional holes in the stacker, or using small risers on the arms, to achieve the goal.)

 

9 hours ago, analogman1 said:

Can it go high enough to play, while standing? 

 

Yes. 

[DJkeys]

1 hour ago, analogman1 said:

The 18880 looks like it could work.

Can it go high enough to play, while standing? 

(I have the K & M Spider Pro, which is too heavy and bulky.)

Yes, I only stand when I play.  However, the adjustments to change from sitting to standing are fiddly and take time, so that is something to be considered. It took me a couple hours to make all of the modifications I needed for my situation, like shortening the second tier, changing its angle, adding weatherstripping, etc.

 

-dj

[EscapeRocks]

I own, or have made many stands.

The one I tend to use the most these days is the K&M 18820 with 2nd tier attachment

 

It fold up and is very easy to carry.  I leave the 2nd tier on.

It is rock solid stable

 

My very favorites are the stands I've created with Gibraltar hardware.   You can have the top tier be as angled or as flat as you desire.

You can  do cool designs only limited by your imagination.

 

 

 

 

My old missile launcher  Ultimate Support AX90 could really get the tiers close and flat.

 

 

LOL  I've even made one out of lighting truss, with an OnStage 2nd tier attachment.

 

 

All in all I'd say for easy setup and transport, one of the K&M that others have posted would be good for you

Don't forget about the OnStage Z-Stand with 2nd tier.   I have one I use in the studio and it is a workhorse.  No bounce, rock solid.

 

[kpl1228]

There's Invisible stands for sale in the KC Classifieds right now, coincidentally...why not get the real deal? You're right....they're the best to "close the gap." I can't believe both ads have lasted at all. Everyone here seems to want one yet no one is pouncing on this rarity, shipping cost or not.

The other thing about Invisibles, and why I now have two, is that the top tier "stuck out" more in the back, so not only was there small gap, the top keyboard covered little-to-none of the bottom keyboard's knobs, switches, or screens...most of the other two-tiers hung right over the bottom keyboard.

I like the K&M Omega Pro, and I keep seeing those chrome big-bucks Gibraltar stands, which I would spring for if it came in BLACK chrome, and not just chrome chrome. 

 

[AnotherScott]

54 minutes ago, DJkeys said:

the adjustments to change from sitting to standing are fiddly and take time, so that is something to be considered.

 

As I learned from someone in an earlier thread, you can make those height adjustments pretty fast and easy by replacing the four standard height adjusting bolts with these hand-turnable knobs... 

 

 

The height adjustment then takes about 2 minutes. 

[EscapeRocks]

3 hours ago, kpl1228 said:

I like the K&M Omega Pro, and I keep seeing those chrome big-bucks Gibraltar stands, which I would spring for if it came in BLACK chrome, and not just chrome chrome. 

 

That's incredible easy to solve.

 

My Gibraltar tubes did not come in red.  They're the standard chrome

 

 

Enter Dupli-Color Automotive MetalCast paint.  I knew about this paint from my race car days.

Designed to be pained over chrome, and adheres with no prep other than a cleaning, to the chrome Gibraltar tubes.

 

 

 

You can get many colors, including a black smoke

Here's just a few

 

You can also create a black chrome with the proper metalcast base coat.

 

I'm happy to walk anyone thru it if they want

[djdisbro]

I've had good luck with these and the accompanying second tier add-ons.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/284735-REG/QuikLok_M_91BK_M_91_Single_Tier_The.html

 

 

[niacin]

8 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Well, literally, a bit more than that. 🙂 But yes, the 18880 sets up very fast.

 

Assuming you tightened the two knobs for transport, you hand loosen the two knobs, spread the two sides, and then hand tighten the two knobs. Maybe 10-15 seconds? If you use the cross brace, maybe another 5-10 seconds for that? And if you flip the top tiers backwards but choose not to transport it that way (because it takes more room), maybe another 20 seconds to loosen those arms, flip them, and re-tighten them. So I'd say well under a minute.

I just spread the two sides, so literally a second.  I tighten the knobs a little when i pack the stand down, but rarely enough to have to loosen them to spread the sides.  I’ve never used the crossbar.  If you kick the legs out so they’re angled slightly it’s quite stable even with a second tier.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, niacin said:

I do none of that.  So literally a second.

 

IMO, you should consider locking down the two knobs for transport. It takes maybe 5 seconds, and it pretty much eliminates the possibility of losing one of the knobs during transport, and keeps the piece more solidly closed with no chance of it starting to open accidentally depending in how you're carrying it. But if your setup is one second, it sounds like you're not locking it into its open position either. Which I guess works, but to me, it's worth the few seconds to lock the pieces into place,

[Tom Williams]

At the risk of Blasphemy, the OnStage is more versatile than the Invisible stand (I have both) due to the former's ability to adjust both height and tilt for the upper tier.  My Invisible stand is essentially just two parallel metal shelves.

[niacin]

7 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

IMO, you should consider locking down the two knobs for transport. It takes maybe 5 seconds, and it pretty much eliminates the possibility of losing one of the knobs during transport, and keeps the piece more solidly closed with no chance of it starting to open accidentally depending in how you're carrying it. But if your setup is one second, it sounds like you're not locking it into its open position either. Which I guess works, but to me, it's worth the few seconds to lock the pieces into place,

i should have said I’ve put a piece of gaff tape around the legs at the height i want the stand so that I simply open the stand until the bolts hit the gaff tape, kick the legs out, and I’m done.  I tighten the bolts a little when i pack the stand down, but not so much that they don’t move up the leg slits.  I’ve never lost a knob.  YMMV.

[paulnajar]

This is what I’ve been pretty happy with for a few years now. Hercules KS410B. It’s very stable and well priced. It doesn’t need those extra cross rods they ship with.In general I’m not a fan of x stands and I used to have an invisible many years ago that was great for closeness but not as stable as this one.

 

Because my bottom board the A-88 is so shallow I had to hacksaw off about 10cm of the bottom tier arms to get this arrangement.

 

i am a bit obsessed with having the two keyboards as close together as they can be and don’t get guys that have them so far apart when they could be closer easily.