Changing patches quickly

[jerrythek]

I also use my iPad chart reader to send my program changes. But I subbed in my old (really old) wedding band a few years ago, and the singer has a big white pad (with an erasable marker) that she would write a song name or chart number and show it around the band when they decided to call an audible. She does it early enough that I can get prepped. Simple solution, that works well. I should mention that the band has 3 lead vocalists, which makes it easier for someone to be free to handle the pad.

 

[Stokely]

We don't often call an audible in the way you all are mentioning, it's usually a request and so there'd be a pause anyway.  Thankfully!

I did mention a talkback mic, but that only works if everyone is on in-ears as we are.   Our bass player originally wanted it to help guide our new drummer through a lot of tunes he didn't know all that well (he's 20+ years younger  ) but now he's taken to it to be the band director and pushing the next tune.  

Personally I like to see the list so that I can look ahead and see what's coming, even 2 or 3 tunes down the road.  Obviously it doesn't solve all my problems as this thread shows!

Sat night for example, I saw "Only the Lonely" (Motels song) coming which I start.  We were getting near the end of a Joan Jett song which really doesn't have keys in the first place.  I simply stopped playing a few seconds before the end and scrolled to my OtL patch.   I'd prefer not to do even that but it works and as far as I know, bothered nobody!  I wouldn't be able to do that if Carry On (Kansas) or some other tune that I play all the way to the end was the previous song.  So the singer and I talked a bit about juxtaposition of songs and how the song before has a lot to say about how much scrambling I'll be doing.

[MathOfInsects]

21 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

Though I'm not sure I see any advantage to using the 5 "Live" spots for this approach, as opposed to just using the first bank of 5 Programs...?

Two reasons. One is that "Live" lives as a layer on top of all the banks. So if you drop (say) synth solo patches onto Page A, they are there waiting for you just to "unLive" to use--one click. If you put those main patches in one bank/page and solo patches in another, you have to do a bunch of clicking to get back and forth. 

The other is that Live preserves a snapshot of however the sound is left whenever you use it. So if I want (say) upright piano on a particular gig instead of an expensive grand, if you use Page A for that, you either have to change it to the piano you want and either save it the new way, or make the changes anew each time you go back to the sound. If you decide this song is going to have some delay on the Wurly, and then you click away to take a solo on another another instrument, "Live" lets you resume playing the same Wurly without having to stop mid-song to save the patch over your existing Wurly patch.

 

Same with organ; the patch is a preset, the "Live" is a snapshot.

 

I find it way more versatile and nimble to make those "Live" options.

[J.F.N.]

@AnotherScott Oh, I like that MidiMacros app, need to check that (just bought it).. The Midi Designer Pro definitely looks competent too.

 

 

[Reezekeys]

2 hours ago, Delaware Dave said:

I cant believe that anyone would suggest a new $1000+ keyboard as a solution to this problem ....

 

Really? This is the Keyboard Corner - it's a time-honored tradition here! 🙂 

[sherry]

This is where Kronos/Nautilus shines.  Between Setlist and Scene changes, all of these issues are addressed with one button press or pedal press.  I'd consider  the Nord Stage 4 if had a bigger screen and Setlist mode like korg.  Nord' does sound awesome though.

[jarrell]

5 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Someone was telling me that some app--maybe Forscore?--has a feature where the BL can call up the next song on his iPad, and everyone else's will go to that song as well, which is a cool idea.

Also unrealBook will do this, and more importantly, both apps can send MIDI program change commands when a song is selected.

[HammondDave]

6 hours ago, Stokely said:

Good points everyone.  Fortunately it's just me (as far as I know!) that's having any angst over this--the singer and the band are cool with me taking some time.  She marked all the songs I told her I might need a minute on, so everyone's set list has a little pink line on those tunes   Our bass player and drummer didn't notice it on one of them so it takes time.   She's been using those songs to mention the servers/bartenders, mention the band's info etc.

I'm the only one with a bunch of patches, the guitarist literally has like 4 on his modelers with some optional stomps, boosts and effects for them to further change.  I had fewer patches but now with songs like Down Under, Footloose, Africa and others, they all need their own patch.  I'm happy to be doing songs like that, I repeat     I don't want the band to sit there and twiddle while I navigate patches if I can help it though.

Even on the Modx I'd occasionally forget which page of the Live set a patch would be on.

I'll get there, just having things alpha might be a simple way to find stuff.   Maybe put the "generic" patches like Piano, organ etc with special names ("_" in front of the name or something) on the live buttons so they don't appear in the main pack, I'll mess around.   The suggestion for categories might work for me as well, I'd have to give thought on how to categorize to make my life easier.   It probably won't be by instrument type--a song like Brandy for example I've got rhodes, organ and horns so what would that be  

You are doing it wrong on the MODX. Don’t scroll through your set lists… just hit the category button, type the first three letters into the search window, hit search, then press the performance you want when it appears.  Takes about 6 seconds total. 

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, jarrell said:

Also unrealBook will do this, and more importantly, both apps can send MIDI program change commands when a song is selected.

MobileSheets looks like another that can do these things.

 

ETA: Also BandHelper.

[CEB]

I run MobileSheetsPro.  It does.  It also runs on Android tablets if anybody happens to have an Android tablet who wants to do this on the cheap and not buy any hardware.

[stoken6]

I'm late to this topic, but if you don't want an iPad, do you have a smartphone? I use BandHelper on my phone, but many apps exist. Plus it's super-easy to attach. Combine one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/SMALLRIG-Cameras-Umbrellas-Photography-Accessories/dp/B00855QK0Q with this kind of thing: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Holder-Portable-Smartphone-Broadcast-Compatible-default/dp/B08L6TF31H?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A2KUGJ1Y4MWDU0

 

When it comes to the live programs - remember each program contains two pianos, two organs and two synths. Easy to turn on/off within each slot. So in "LIVE 1" you could have a grand, an upright, an organ and (say) strings. LIVE 2 could be Rhodes, Wurly, Vox Continental and horns.Etc.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Stokely]

19 hours ago, HammondDave said:

You are doing it wrong on the MODX. Don’t scroll through your set lists… just hit the category button, type the first three letters into the search window, hit search, then press the performance you want when it appears.  Takes about 6 seconds total. 

Thanks.  I haven't been gigging with the Modx but if I take it back out I'll explore that.   I do use the search when building patches on it, I happen to like the OS on it quite a bit (I know its not everyone's cup of tea).    



 

[AnotherScott]

Remember also that MODX Live Set banks and pages can be named, which makes them easy to navigate from the pop-down menus, to get to ones that you've grouped accordingly. Using special characters in your Performance naming can also be a search aid, and of course there's also the Favorites function.

[Stokely]

On 7/30/2024 at 1:44 AM, stoken6 said:

I'm late to this topic, but if you don't want an iPad, do you have a smartphone? I use BandHelper on my phone, but many apps exist. Plus it's super-easy to attach. Combine one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/SMALLRIG-Cameras-Umbrellas-Photography-Accessories/dp/B00855QK0Q with this kind of thing: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Holder-Portable-Smartphone-Broadcast-Compatible-default/dp/B08L6TF31H?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A2KUGJ1Y4MWDU0

 

When it comes to the live programs - remember each program contains two pianos, two organs and two synths. Easy to turn on/off within each slot. So in "LIVE 1" you could have a grand, an upright, an organ and (say) strings. LIVE 2 could be Rhodes, Wurly, Vox Continental and horns.Etc.

 

Cheers, Mike.

I do, but two problems    One, it's a work phone (I've never bothered to get my own, they don't mind me using it for personal stuff) and it locks in like 1 minute.  I do own an ipad already.  2nd, I'd definitely need my glasses live, which is fine I guess but I tend to misplace them.  I don't need them to drive.    Or readers.  Our singer puts hers on when she does anything on her own smartphone   Nothing says "old people in a band" like musicians putting on and taking off readers LOL

I'm leaning toward alpha re-org on the Nord as a first simple attempt.   If not, then maybe one of the apps mentioned here in-thread.   And at the same time, she's working with me to not have certain songs back to back.  Ones where I sing and play all the way to the end need to be followed ideally with a song I don't start, that sort of thing.

[AnotherScott]

54 minutes ago, Stokely said:

One, it's a work phone (I've never bothered to get my own, they don't mind me using it for personal stuff) and it locks in like 1 minute.

the lock time is an easy setting to change, and change back, as needed.

[Stokely]

Ok, that's weird.

I know where auto-lock is, I used to be able to change it.  Then at some point the auto-lock was locked, to 2 minutes.  

Now I go in and check, it's 5 minutes and I'm able to change it to "never" (if I want, i'd only do that for a gig)

Probably some policy change from our IT dept.  I know they have some stuff they set on these phones, like our 2 factor auth settings etc.

Phone is back on the menu!  I'll still need glasses though   Which is fine, the Buddy Holly look will be an improvement for me This is actually pretty nice as I can also use this to show the set list (if I don't have an ipad) and it can velcro anywhere. 

Anyway, sorry for the diversion and thanks for the mention, which got me to check it.

[Iconoclast]

I did a survey in late 2022 that might bear on this subject, just review this thread. Kind of enlightening what people use. Keep in mind this was a year and a half ago and I think more and more people are using some kind of off-board technology to solve this problem. 
 

Personally I use Mainstage to run and command my rig. My setlist is drop/drag to the right order and I can search alphabetically if I need to. Plus I have a folder of generic sounds if we try something I don't have scripted out or are just jamming.

[Iconoclast]

On 7/29/2024 at 8:13 AM, Delaware Dave said:

1st world problem. I cant believe that anyone would suggest a new $1000+ keyboard as a solution to this problem ....

[stoken6]

4 hours ago, Stokely said:

2nd, I'd definitely need my glasses live, which is fine I guess but I tend to misplace them.  I don't need them to drive.    Or readers.  Our singer puts hers on when she does anything on her own smartphone   Nothing says "old people in a band" like musicians putting on and taking off readers LOL

Bandhelper and Set List Maker have configurable layouts - if you just need song titles (because you're using it as a quick patch changer), you can magnify text to your heart's content. 

 

Cheers, mike.

[ProfD]

This thresd is a great example of KBs having more features than immediately apparent.

 

The Nord Stage was built to cover all aspects of live performance. Just a matter of digging into it and/or RTM.🤣😎

[Stokely]

Yeah, it was one of those things where I did read (even before I got it), but mainly to make sure it could do things I thought it could do.  And how to program the synth and that sort of thing.  I watched most of the vids out there but if they mentioned some of this stuff it was in passing and I missed it.

And as I said, I was fine until we both added enough songs needing their own patches to hit a critical mass AND started speeding up     Gotta up my game!

[ProfD]

7 hours ago, Stokely said:

Yeah, it was one of those things where I did read (even before I got it), but mainly to make sure it could do things I thought it could do.

Understandable. Most folks approach gear from that perspective.  Very few deep dive every nook and cranny of it.

7 hours ago, Stokely said:

And as I said, I was fine until we both added enough songs needing their own patches to hit a critical mass AND started speeding up     Gotta up my game!

Sure. It's just great that your existing gear covers the need instead of having to buy and/or add something else.😎

[vonnor]

The ability to get setup for the "next" song instantly has been a must-have for me since 1989. Back in the day my workflow looked like this:
Lake Butler MIDI Mitigator foot controller - fully programmable with a LED display of the song name: One stomp would send a Program Change event to... ->
Digital Music Corp MX-8 MIDI patch-bay / processor - rack mounted: which would send individual Program Change events out to each board or rack module.

Could create setlists on the foot controller so the songs were in the correct order - not perfect for audible calls, but pretty great for the current tech of '89.

 

Today I use a FAMC Liquid Foot Mini+ foot controller to hold all the setlists: One stomp sends a Program Change event to ->

Cantabile3 running on a 2-in-1 Win10 laptop, which sends the individual Program Change events to all the boards and VSTs.

For audibles, the laptop (touch screen) shows all the songs in a panel so I can hijack the process and just touch the called-out song name.

Audibles take maybe 2sec longer to bring everything up.

Cantabile also handles all the splits, layers, cross-fades, controller mapping, key ranges, sample triggers, 8va xpose, etc.

 

All the solutions posted here are basically the same idea: Let MIDI do the heavy lifting for calling up patches, save your fingers for playing music. 😎

 

~ vonnor