Roland RD-08

[ElmerJFudd]

23 minutes ago, CHarrell said:

 

I don't get Roland's product lines, they all overlap in features and price in weird ways, and I have a hard time seeing what would entice me to buy one over the other. For example, their dedicated MIDI controller, the A88mk2, sells just a little bit under the RD88. With the 88, you get pitch and mod, some readily assignable knobs, a whole bunch of sounds, built in speakers, and like 6 lbs less than the A88 with the same key action. Who in the world would buy the A88mk2 instead, just for a few unique control surfaces?

 

Login to the cloud, dig around and try to figure out what will run on which hardware.  Every time they release something it’s a guess as to how compatible it is with their engines.  

[Ibarch]

4 hours ago, Stokely said:

I haven't really looked into it that much, as I haven't been close to getting a keyboard where it could pop up (closest would be a Fantom)--but with these user account licenses, how does resale work?  If you are a buyer, do you get access to any add-ons purchased by the previous owner?  Hell, are you really "authorized" to use it at all?   Buying a used Fantom or Fantom-0 that happened to have paid add-ons installed, what happens?  And as a seller, are you even able to sell those?   

 

For the wave expansions and sound packs, they are tied to the individual Roland Cloud  account and not to the board. So if you buy a 2nd hand board you would not be licensed to use it. Having said that, if the previous user did not remove it, then you can carry on using it. There is no phone home functionality today to check licenses once installed to the keyboard. 

 

As to how it works for this RD-08 upgrade or even the Fantom EX, I don't know. 

[The Piano Man]

The models in the RD line should be pro level, ie:

 

Internal power supply

Solid construction 

 

The FP line should offer the lighter weight, internal speaker, plastic construction options

 

If Roland want a lighter weight RD, they should follow Yamaha’s lead and aim for a CP73 competitor 

 

Just my opinion 

[David Emm]

21 hours ago, Thethirdapple said:

More walled gardens

Every home a prison

 

... and every backyard patio a nuclear protectorate! Sorry, what was the question? TBH, Zenology fascinates me because of its depth. You can buy emulations of most of Roland's synths from multiple software shops like Cherry Audio. I wonder how many people have committed to that synth universe as their main toolbox? Vintage emulations aside, the full Zenology engine isn't exactly lacking. Its not as detailed as a Papen synth or something in that vein, but its respectable. Surely there are more than a few people for whom its a go-to. Personally, I'm too crusty to depend on the cloud that much.

 

I sample the bleep out of my rig, because these days, if someone says the sky is blue, I still look up and check. I always loosely expect for my instruments to go POOF. My last line of defense is Autosampler, which has generated a healthy library. Of course, if my Mac goes, I'm screwed with my pants on. 😬    

[ElmerJFudd]

22 minutes ago, David Emm said:

 

... and every backyard patio a nuclear protectorate! Sorry, what was the question? TBH, Zenology fascinates me because of its depth. You can buy emulations of most of Roland's synths from multiple software shops like Cherry Audio. I wonder how many people have committed to that synth universe as their main toolbox? Vintage emulations aside, the full Zenology engine isn't exactly lacking. Its not as detailed as a Papen synth or something in that vein, but its respectable. Surely there are more than a few people for whom its a go-to. Personally, I'm too crusty to depend on the cloud that much.

 

I sample the bleep out of my rig, because these days, if someone says the sky is blue, I still look up and check. I always loosely expect for my instruments to go POOF. My last line of defense is Autosampler, which has generated a healthy library. Of course, if my Mac goes, I'm screwed with my pants on. 😬    

Going to Mac for sounds is sound freedom, sound consistency everywhere you go with that Mac, or MainStage file.  Great flexibility in fx, routing, layers and splits on a full size screen with a pretty decent user interface.  Freedom to use any USB pedals, any keyboard controller.  But Apple’s gotcha then - you may even have to think about a redundant Mac for backup.  😊 

 

The RD-08 looks like a pretty good pick for MainStage - it’s just going to cost a bit more than $999 - and while your setting that up - come check out our Zenology sound packs and vintage instruments you may want to add to MainStage.  In fact you may feel our instruments are superior and worth the subscription.  😉

[DeltaJockey]

45 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

The RD-08 looks like a pretty good pick for MainStage - it’s just going to cost a bit more than $999

I'm wondering why you might think the RD08 would be a good pick vs the RD88 for Mainstage?

I am beginning to wonder if the price difference between the RD08 and RD88 is less here in Oz than in the US? It makes the RD88 a no brainer for me.

 

I do have a free Roland cloud account with my RD88, and have the option to buy the subscription, but have never had the urge. Mainstage works very well with my RD88, and all my third party plugins!

 

With the risk of sounding hypocritical, I'm locked into the Apple ecosystem, because anything I want to do with it just works 🤩 I champion freedom and choice, but here I am being loyal too. We all choose our poison I guess

 

I guess too, we are all looking for those conflicting human needs of security AND freedom!

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

6 minutes ago, DeltaJockey said:

I'm wondering why you might think the RD08 would be a good pick vs the RD88 for Mainstage?

I am beginning to wonder if the price difference between the RD08 and RD88 is less here in Oz than in the US? It makes the RD88 a no brainer for me.

 

I do have a free Roland cloud account with my RD88, and have the option to buy the subscription, but have never had the urge. Mainstage works very well with my RD88, and all my third party plugins!

 

With the risk of sounding hypocritical, I'm locked into the Apple ecosystem, because anything I want to do with it just works 🤩 I champion freedom and choice, but here I am being loyal too. We all choose our poison I guess

 

I guess too, we are all looking for those conflicting human needs of security AND freedom!

 

 

Same USB audio interface as the RD88, same MainStage control and feedback as well.  $300 less.  Does anyone know yet what the upgrade fee in Roland cloud costs yet?  Is it… $29.99?   $49.99?  $99.99, $299.99?  

[DeltaJockey]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Same USB audio interface as the RD88, same MainStage control and feedback as well.  $300 less.  Does anyone know yet what the upgrade fee in Roland cloud costs yet?  Is it… $29.99?   $49.99?  $99.99, $299.99?  

The RD08 is only about USD$30 less in the stores in Australia. So that's why I've been harping on about it! So for $30usd more you get a working USB interface, and 8 controllers to immediately use Mainstage? In Australia that US $300 would be about $500AUD, so I can see why the economics in the US.

[Fleer]

5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Same USB audio interface as the RD88, same MainStage control and feedback as well.  $300 less.  Does anyone know yet what the upgrade fee in Roland cloud costs yet?  Is it… $29.99?   $49.99?  $99.99, $299.99?  

$300 is what I read. Pretty weird. 

[Ibarch]

12 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Going to Mac for sounds is sound freedom, sound consistency everywhere you go with that Mac, or MainStage file.  Great flexibility in fx, routing, layers and splits on a full size screen with a pretty decent user interface.  Freedom to use any USB pedals, any keyboard controller.  But Apple’s gotcha then - you may even have to think about a redundant Mac for backup.  😊 

 

The RD-08 looks like a pretty good pick for MainStage - it’s just going to cost a bit more than $999 - and while your setting that up - come check out our Zenology sound packs and vintage instruments you may want to add to MainStage.  In fact you may feel our instruments are superior and worth the subscription.  😉

 

If you want Mainstage integration, then the RD-88 is the sensible option as it is available out the box. Why would you choose a device that explicitly does not include this? 

 

Mainstage integration can be added later via the upgrade but based on UK pricing costs around £150 more. If you never wanted this but changed your mind later, then maybe it makes sense. But not to buy the RD-08 instead of the RD-88 with the intention of buying the upgrade immediately. 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

I was in the GC near me yesterday.  For a change there were some things in the showroom worth trying.  I got to sit with the CK88 and the RD88.  Two very different boards as far as user interface.  I can see preferring one over the other depending what type of material and group you are performing with.   The tactile CK is very easy to navigate and focuses on the immediacy of the holy grail - acoustic piano, electric piano, organ.  Like the CP and YC there is an "other" category.   I preferred the main CFX piano sound on the CK to the RD's main piano sound (I'd have to spend some time tweaking the FX and eq on this patch).  That said, I preferred the RD's PHA4 action and key tops to the GHS on the Yamaha (which isn't bad, just not as good).  The inclusion of internal speakers on both is helpful for practice.  Access to Roland's Zen-Core sounds and MainStage integration is a major plus - you're not going to be short on sounds or caught without the one you need for specific gig.  Both are a decently light carry at 28.8 (CK) vs 29.8 (RD88) lbs.  Both are pretty compact, the Roland case being a bit smaller footprint, if a tad taller.  

CK88 (5.8" high, 52.5" wide, 13.9" deep)

RD88 (6.3" high, 50.5" wide, 10.1" deep)

The CK88 has two pedal inputs - 1 and 2, I assume 1 is for damper.  Can the other be used for either a switch or a continuous?

The RD88 has 3 pedals, one damper and 2 assignable that accept either switch or continuous. 

 

No RD-08 on the floor to compare, but they don't seem to have shaved much off the RD-08 when compared to the RD-88 (but the account creation and fee to get it on par with the 88).  Mainly a loss of knobs, but thankfully not a loss of pedal inputs.  

 

[Dave Keys]

I think the RD 88 is an excellent board, but this RD 08 sounds like a cynical product of the accounting department, rather than being musician inspired as it ought. A board I wouldn’t touch with a barge pole. 

Life brings enough overheads without adding costs on top. 

[danskeys]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:43 AM, ElmerJFudd said:

I was in the GC near me yesterday.  For a change there were some things in the showroom worth trying.  I got to sit with the CK88 and the RD88.  Two very different boards as far as user interface.  I can see preferring one over the other depending what type of material and group you are performing with.   The tactile CK is very easy to navigate and focuses on the immediacy of the holy grail - acoustic piano, electric piano, organ.  Like the CP and YC there is an "other" category.   I preferred the main CFX piano sound on the CK to the RD's main piano sound (I'd have to spend some time tweaking the FX and eq on this patch).  That said, I preferred the RD's PHA4 action and key tops to the GHS on the Yamaha (which isn't bad, just not as good).  The inclusion of internal speakers on both is helpful for practice.  Access to Roland's Zen-Core sounds and MainStage integration is a major plus - you're not going to be short on sounds or caught without the one you need for specific gig.  Both are a decently light carry at 28.8 (CK) vs 29.8 (RD88) lbs.  Both are pretty compact, the Roland case being a bit smaller footprint, if a tad taller.  

CK88 (5.8" high, 52.5" wide, 13.9" deep)

RD88 (6.3" high, 50.5" wide, 10.1" deep)

The CK88 has two pedal inputs - 1 and 2, I assume 1 is for damper.  Can the other be used for either a switch or a continuous?

The RD88 has 3 pedals, one damper and 2 assignable that accept either switch or continuous. 

 

No RD-08 on the floor to compare, but they don't seem to have shaved much off the RD-08 when compared to the RD-88 (but the account creation and fee to get it on par with the 88).  Mainly a loss of knobs, but thankfully not a loss of pedal inputs.  

 

I bought an RD-88 assuming that the speakers would be acceptable.  I found them to be a complete joke and totally unusable for anything other than literally being to hear yourself in a quiet room where quality is irrelevant and you just need to practice a riff, or do something last minute before performing.  The speakers were shockingly bad.  So bad, that to this day I wonder if I got a lemon.  I retuned the RD88 for that reason as I bought it to be a portable slab I could take anywhere (for practice and fun, primarily) and play without external speakers or headphones.  I ended up with the CK88 and the speakers are much, much, much better.  Not perfect, but totally usable.  Also, I found the UI on the CK to be far superior to the RD88.  I love the CK88.  But to each their own!

[ElmerJFudd]

49 minutes ago, danskeys said:

I bought an RD-88 assuming that the speakers would be acceptable.  I found them to be a complete joke and totally unusable for anything other than literally being to hear yourself in a quiet room where quality is irrelevant and you just need to practice a riff, or do something last minute before performing.  The speakers were shockingly bad.  So bad, that to this day I wonder if I got a lemon.  I retuned the RD88 for that reason as I bought it to be a portable slab I could take anywhere (for practice and fun, primarily) and play without external speakers or headphones.  I ended up with the CK88 and the speakers are much, much, much better.  Not perfect, but totally usable.  Also, I found the UI on the CK to be far superior to the RD88.  I love the CK88.  But to each their own!

Heh, now when I was in the shop CK88 was on the  open floor and RD88 was against the wall.  So not a fair comparison for me on usefulness of the speakers on either model.
 

There aren’t many situations for me where I would use internal speakers other than practice and half the time I’d grab headphones so as not to disturb the family. So not a deal breaker for me on any slab - generally speaking they’re all deficient, even consoles until you get into the high end models.  
 

The CK88 and RD88 have nothing in common interface wise.  Different boards for different needs.  I only commented  because they happened to have those two - no RD-08 (which I expect to have weaker speakers based on the specs).  Sad really.  I wish shops were able to have more complete showrooms, but I fear this will occur less and less often.  

[Ibarch]

On my RD-88 the speakers were just about sufficient for band rehearsals, playing against one moderately amped guitar and a bass amp.  They did not cope once we added the full acoustic drum kit. 

 

I would say they would be fine for individual practice or playing with mainly acoustic instruments in rehearsals. Perhaps even for gigs in very small venues.

[David Emm]

1 hour ago, Ibarch said:

On my RD-88 the speakers were just about sufficient for band rehearsals, playing against one moderately amped guitar and a bass amp.  They did not cope once we added the full acoustic drum kit. 

I would say they would be fine for individual practice or playing with mainly acoustic instruments in rehearsals. Perhaps even for gigs in very small venues.

 

I'm sure quite a few of us would do a can-can in our undies on the evening news for a solution to the power & weight issues of speakers. The Harmon-Kardons in my old iMac were a wonderland of clarity. Thumping bass, no, of course, but I wish more small speakers would go there. You can't cheat the physics too much and get a proper bass tone. Speakers like that for an RD would wreck the cartage factor anyway.

 

Until "They" devise drones that will form speaker gangs in the air that you can configure to taste, at least there are some nice rechargeable party speakers that will give you a couple of decent hours' pizzazz. The Mackie Thump runs for 12 hours and only reaches down to 50 Hz, but up to 20k Hz, @ 200w peak. Its not "budget"-priced at about $450, but its still a semi-magical option. Just charge it carefully so it doesn't 'splode and cause your band to re-write "Smoke On The Water."

[DeltaJockey]

13 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

I'm sure quite a few of us would do a can-can in our undies on the evening news for a solution to the power & weight issues of speakers. The Harmon-Kardons in my old iMac were a wonderland of clarity. Thumping bass, no, of course, but I wish more small speakers would go there. You can't cheat the physics too much and get a proper bass tone. Speakers like that for an RD would wreck the cartage factor anyway.

 

Until "They" devise drones that will form speaker gangs in the air that you can configure to taste, at least there are some nice rechargeable party speakers that will give you a couple of decent hours' pizzazz. The Mackie Thump runs for 12 hours and only reaches down to 50 Hz, but up to 20k Hz, @ 200w peak. Its not "budget"-priced at about $450, but its still a semi-magical option. Just charge it carefully so it doesn't 'splode and cause your band to re-write "Smoke On The Water."

I've found not a bad compromise for the RD88, is to plug a small 6inch cube subwoofer into the line outs, then turn on the internal speakers, EQ the bass down onboard so you can turn up the volume without distorting the internal speakers, then up the volume on the sub to compensate. Some pretty punchy volume comes out then.

It saves having to carry a 2 speaker setup, and you can put the sub away underneath. It effectively turns the onboard speakers into satellites.

[AUSSIEKEYS]

4 minutes ago, DeltaJockey said:

I've found not a bad compromise for the RD88, is to plug a small 6inch cube 

 

It saves having to carry a 2 speaker setup, and you can put the sub away underneath. It effectively turns the onboard speakers into satellites.

 

 

 Ive often wondered about doing something similar.

 

What is this 6 inch cube you speak of? 

[DeltaJockey]

38 minutes ago, AUSSIEKEYS said:

 

 

 Ive often wondered about doing something similar.

 

What is this 6 inch cube you speak of? 

I'm using a Cambridge Audio sub, 6.5inch 200W. It wasn't cheap, but it only weighs about 5kg and is quite compact. I think they call it a microsub.

But there are others that would do the job. I bought it from AudioTrends in Ringwood, but it was a few years ago.

https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/row/en/products/speakers/minx/x201

 

[CHarrell]

19 hours ago, David Emm said:

 

Until "They" devise drones that will form speaker gangs in the air that you can configure to taste

 

[danskeys]

10 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

I've found not a bad compromise for the RD88, is to plug a small 6inch cube subwoofer into the line outs, then turn on the internal speakers, EQ the bass down onboard so you can turn up the volume without distorting the internal speakers, then up the volume on the sub to compensate. Some pretty punchy volume comes out then.

It saves having to carry a 2 speaker setup, and you can put the sub away underneath. It effectively turns the onboard speakers into satellites.

Interesting idea!  I'm going to try that with my CK88 and see what it does....

[ElmerJFudd]

Here is a peculiar one for our Aussie friends. Mannys has the RD-88 on sale for $1529.

The NEW RD-08 is $1799... pre upgrade.  

 

Strange days indeed. 

[DeltaJockey]

53 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Here is a peculiar one for our Aussie friends. Mannys has the RD-88 on sale for $1529.

The NEW RD-08 is $1799... pre upgrade.  

 

Strange days indeed. 

That was why I was dumbfounded at Roland's bazaar offering. The Roland Australia website has a RRP which show a smaller difference than US pricing, but the street price is even more absurd. I'm a good customer of Manny's and their partner stores StoreDJ, and sometimes can negotiate something even cheaper than their listed price.

I didn't actually buy my RD88 from them, but I paid about that mid last year. Perhaps when the dust settles, the RD08 will come to rest at around $1,200?

[AUSSIEKEYS]

21 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Here is a peculiar one for our Aussie friends. Mannys has the RD-88 on sale for $1529.

The NEW RD-08 is $1799... pre upgrade.  

 

Strange days indeed. 

 

Yes we are the arse end of the world thats why many strange things occur here.

 

We are the Southern Hemisphere's version of Bizaro world.

[sam6599643]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:03 PM, Ibarch said:

 

Whatever Roland's reasons for releasing the RD-08, I just don't see Cloud membership and data acquisition as being the main driver - despite all the paranoia here. 

 

 “main driver” is not really the poiht. The point is standalone hardware is being deliberately designed to necessitate tethering and connection. 
 

As for “paranoia” review the disclosures on any Roland app in te few cases where the App Store requires them. It’s quite an extensive data suck. So that’s factual. The big data is a subject for another thread. 
 

But this equipment is being taken in a clear direction that we can see. And it’s not for user benefit. I would have hard time recommending this. There are better wars to design and deliver entry level equipment. 

[AnotherScott]

2 minutes ago, sam6599643 said:

“main driver” is not really the poiht. The point is standalone hardware is being deliberately designed to necessitate tethering and connection. 

 

For many (perhaps most) purchasers, I suspect the RD-08 will do all they need out of the box. It does not necessitate tethering/connection unless you need it to do something else, and most of that something else is available (without tethering/connection) in the RD-88 that someone who needs those things probably should buy in the first place.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

57 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

 

For many (perhaps most) purchasers, I suspect the RD-08 will do all they need out of the box. It does not necessitate tethering/connection unless you need it to do something else, and most of that something else is available (without tethering/connection) in the RD-88 that someone who needs those things probably should buy in the first place.

 

 

It’s an interesting tactic.  
 

I suspect they needed a new slab with some unique features at the $999 price point for spring 2024.  They surmised the fastest way to get there is use the RD-88 design and components.  Like the other 0 offerings it had to be downgraded a bit - if not so much physically, then via firmware.  And 💡 we’ll differentiate by providing a path to upgrade.  This will give us an opportunity to get to know who our customers are that want these features and introduce them to the Roland Cloud.  
 

There are drastic shifts in customer behavior afoot.  Many players aren’t choosing to replace a keyboard they are happy with for a new model - just expand it via their computers.  Many players are choosing not to go for the top tier workstations - they can get those features in software.  

[DeltaJockey]

5 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

For many (perhaps most) purchasers, I suspect the RD-08 will do all they need out of the box. It does not necessitate tethering/connection unless you need it to do something else, and most of that something else is available (without tethering/connection) in the RD-88 that someone who needs those things probably should buy in the first place.

 

 

That may be true, especially for the US or Europe, but why would I pay more, or at least the same price compared to an RD88 for a reduced feature instrument?

The irony, is that we live closer to the manufacturer than N America and Europe, so the price must come down to market size and what the market will tolerate and not the shipping costs.

I know there is a popular belief amongst multinationals that Australia supposedly being a wealthy first world country, will blindly pay more, but I think times are changing, and folks will not be so loyal and be more critical about paying whatever for products in less affluent times.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, DeltaJockey said:

That may be true, especially for the US or Europe, but why would I pay more, or at least the same price compared to an RD88 for a reduced feature instrument?

The irony, is that we live closer to the manufacturer than N America and Europe, so the price must come down to market size and what the market will tolerate and not the shipping costs.

I know there is a popular belief amongst multinationals that Australia supposedly being a wealthy first world country, will blindly pay more, but I think times are changing, and folks will not be so loyal and be more critical about paying whatever for products in less affluent times.

It doesn’t seem like their intention is to drop the RD-88 and honestly, it’s been out long enough that you can find a deal on one new or second hand.  There’s no reason to grab an 08 unless you intend to use it as is.  
 

If/when they do tweak the RD-88 I am curious to see what improvements they make.