New Wurlitzer

[zxcvbnm098]

I happen to think Kurzweil has some great Wurlie patches, some (or many) of which were created by forum member Dave Weiser. I favor them over my Nord Electro 5D. If I'm not bringing the real Wurlie, the Kurz one/s get the most use by far for me....

[Jim Alfredson]

6 minutes ago, zxcvbnm098 said:

I happen to think Kurzweil has some great Wurlie patches, some (or many) of which were created by forum member Dave Weiser. I favor them over my Nord Electro 5D. If I'm not bringing the real Wurlie, the Kurz one/s get the most use by far for me....

Agreed. The Wurlis in the latest Kurzweil boards are killer, with my favorites being in the Forte and K2700. I think the PC4 has slightly smaller samples, but it's still good.

For software, I like AcousticSamples VReeds, too. If I'm lazy and don't feel like using my 206a, I just load that up.

[Moonglow]

17 hours ago, ProfD said:

I suspect the sound will be produced by some type of physical modeling married to a great key action in a nice box yielding a cool modern take on the Wurlitzer.

If they can create the Wurlitzer experience to the same level as the Rhodes in the Crumar Seven, it should be a winner.

[Outkaster]

Donny Hataway always reminds me of how good the 200A is. 

[ProfD]

9 minutes ago, Outkaster said:

Donny Hataway always reminds me of how good the 200A is. 

The 200A was just the tool he chose to use.  Donny Hathaway as a musician/composer made the instrument sing.😎

[davinwv]

Much like choosing between B-3X and Waterfall, I usually load a few different Wurly libraries into a given song/project and decide between them. Usually, I end up using either VReeds, the Hammers and Waves EP 145B, the old e-Instruments Session Keys W, or the old NI/Scarbee A200. Every now and then, the Keyscape 140B or AcousticSamples' older Wurlie will get the nod.

 

For live playing, I always use the A200. It's light on resources and sounds great in FOH/IEMs. 

[SamuelBLupowitz]

My Wurlitzer 200 is one of my prized possessions. I stopped taking it to gigs for the most part after the pandemic (both to save my back and because I now have a home studio I can keep it set up in), but man, truly nothing like the real thing -- the feel, the sound, the response. Maintenance is kind of a pain though, I admit. I'd be fascinated by a Vintage Vibe-style contemporary electromechanical piano that's more reed-y than tine-y. I imagine the market would be more for mid- to upper-level touring and recording artists (and of course home use by affluent folks), than those of us carting our own gear to gigs. That seems to be how Vintage Vibe gets by, what with Stevie Wonder, Esperanza Spaulding, and John Ginty touring with their pianos and clav copies.

 

Interested to see where this goes!

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

The 200A was just the tool he chose to use.  Donny Hathaway as a musician/composer made the instrument sing.😎

 

Took the words out of my mouth and encapsulated my feelings regarding all the nostalgia for these "authentic" recreations. It's the music, stupid! 🙂 That's the fairy dust not included in the price, and what you can't buy anyway. I still wish well for whoever is making these new Wurlies - it's most likely a labor of love since imo the market will be limited. I used to own one in my youth, and remember the broken reeds, melting & filing solder blobs, etc. I'm OK with my plugins - just speaking for myself, I'm pretty sure having a real Wurly won't make my music any better!

[1203]

Yes, it’s not the tool, it’s the carpenter. A good musician will sound better on a cheap Casio than a bad musician will sound on an expensive boutique instrument, no question. But: Nevertheless, it is a completely different feeling and very inspiring to sit at a real instrument in which something physically happens and for which you have a completely different respect as a result. John Medeski once said years ago that he thought many of today's keyboard players were pussies because they no longer wanted to lug around the real instruments. 😅 I only do it myself from time to time, but it's worth it and there are always people in the audience who come up and enthusiastically ask about the real Rhodes. 

[HammondDave]

I miss my 200 so much, but the 206 in my studio is pretty much the same instrument, and the keyboard feels so good!  Wished the Rhodes I bought to replace my 200 felt the same. 

[octa]

Miss my 200a too. Was stupid of me to leave it in car overnight 10+ years ago. Car window was smashed and 2 200a’s were stolen, one was for parts. — have played some wurlies since and none can compete with the sound and feel of the stolen 200a. And with how much they cost now, figuring I’ll stick w/ the plugs at home and lately have been liking Nord thru uafx dream ‘65 pedal (black face fender deluxe sim) at gigs. 

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, Reezekeys said:

....nostalgia for these "authentic" recreations...That's the fairy dust not included in the price, and what you can't buy anyway. 

Not to ad hominem quote each other but that last line covers both reissued electromechanical KBs and synths and newer gear too. 🤣

 

Manufacturers can load up hardware and software with every sound, feature and functionality, etc. 

 

Unfortunately, manufacturers cannot include the fairy dust that makes an instrument sing.😁😎 

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, ProfD said:

3 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

....nostalgia for these "authentic" recreations...That's the fairy dust not included in the price, and what you can't buy anyway. 

Not to ad hominem quote each other but that last line covers both reissued electromechanical KBs and synths and newer gear too. 🤣

 

Very true, it just seems these newer electro-mechanical recreations come with the "premium" brand fairy dust! 🙂 

 

1 hour ago, 1203 said:

Nevertheless, it is a completely different feeling and very inspiring to sit at a real instrument in which something physically happens and for which you have a completely different respect as a result.

 

Point  taken, and it's hard to put a price on that - which may explain why some of these expensive keyboards find a market. If that's the case, I say go for it! I know I've enjoyed playing a real Rhodes when I get the chance, though in my case it's mostly for the nostalgia, having owned two back in my misspent youth. The fairy dust doesn't work on me, unfortunately - I suck just as much as when I'm playing my $400 plastic controller!

[Adan]

3 hours ago, 1203 said:

 John Medeski once said years ago that he thought many of today's keyboard players were pussies because they no longer wanted to lug around the real instruments. 😅

I have infinite respect for Medeski, and I would also suspect he said that tongue in cheek.  But it's important to note that he's out there doing his unique thing, he's not usually trying to fit into someone else's thing, so he doesn't have to address the question of how to have a good wurly, rhodes, and piano all in one gig.

 

On the rare occasions I take my Vintage Vibe to a gig, it feels more than worth the trouble for the extra inspiration.  At the same time, there's usually one or several points in the gig where I'd like to switch to a different piano voice, because that's a different way of spurring creativity.

[davinwv]

I have owned a 200a since the late '90s, and I will never part with it (even though I don't use it much because plugins are just easier to deal with).

 

I did do some keyboard overdubs for a rock band here in WV a few years ago whose one caveat was . . . no VIs / plugins! So, their producer came to my home studio, and we tracked real B3/Leslie and Wurly for a day. I did sneak in a virtual piano on one track, though. It would've been really hard to record my Baldwin R5 upstairs correctly.

[Jim Alfredson]

Thinking about this more, I can't imagine a true reed based electro-mechanical Wurlitzer recreation would come in at anything less than $15,000. Probably more. A good acoustic console piano is at least $11,000. And the market for acoustic pianos is dwindling anyway. The market for a Wurli EP is even less.

[Mighty Motif Max]

On 1/30/2024 at 12:17 PM, Synthaholic said:

Is their Wurlitzer the best digital representation available? I do know that their instruments are highly configurable.

I am a big fan of the Purgatory Creek 200A library…I use the PC4 and MODX hardware versions of it, even for recording, but I’d imagine the full software is even better. 

[D. Gauss]

If anyone here is really interested, I've got two whurlys (and a leslie 145) that sadly may need to go soon. A tube 700 series spinet style (can't remember the exact model number, but 1962 or 63 iirc) and a 203 (4 speakers). NYC area.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

16 hours ago, Adan said:

I have infinite respect for Medeski, and I would also suspect he said that tongue in cheek. 

That may be so, but he's also known to be a little bit of an intense, cantankerous purist, so who can say, really! It's a different climate economically than the early days of MMW when they'd load the B3 and Leslie out of the van and the stairs into the club themselves -- and I don't imagine he does much moving Hammonds around on his own at this stage of his career...

[cbhathco]

Regarding Medeski, this is the best interview I've found where he talks about why/how he values the pre-midi, electro-mechanical stuff: https://web.archive.org/web/20130106235326/http://www.emusician.com/news/0766/being-john-medeski/146513

 

Most relevant bits are toward the beginning: 

"Medeski's idea of making music better includes surrounding himself with an array of vintage electronic keyboards, effect pedals, and amplifiers. His main instruments are a Hammond B-3 organ, which goes through a Leslie 117; a Clavinet that goes through a wah-wah, a Roland Space Echo, and a 1953 Fender Bassman amp; a Wurlitzer that's sent through a 1957 Fender Tremolux; a Mellotron that goes through a 1968 Fender Pro Silverface; an ARP String Ensemble; a Yamaha CS80 synthesizer; a Melodica, which is another Wurlitzer-type keyboard (“I don't know what the exact name and model number are, but it's somewhere between a Farfisa and an ARP,” says Medeski); and a Steinway piano. His only concession to modern times is the Moog Voyager, which he puts through a 1950s Kay 703 guitar amplifier.

“I'm more interested in an instrument that has one sound world rather than an instrument that has 1,000 sounds, but each type has its limitations,” explains Medeski. “And each of my keyboards has its own sound world. I think of them as different personalities, and that's why they each have their own amplifier. I spend a lot of time finding amps that work. I really like the Wurlitzer sound that comes from its own speaker, but you can't mic it live. Even in the studio it doesn't have enough balls. But in the studio the Wurlitzer and the Mellotron can sound great direct to tape.”"

/end quote

 

What I find interesting is how specific he is with the amplifier/keyboard, how deliberate the choices seem to be. I think he hardly ever uses a Rhodes, for instance. And he seems to prefer the pre-200 Wurlitzer models. Fascinating! 

 

And I think what everyone is saying here is simultaneously true: there is a degree of fairy dust with these old instruments, no doubt inflated by nostalgia. They are heavy and impractical. There are reasons the technology changed. But playing them is a unique experience, despite the fact that the emulations get better every day. Anyone who gigs these things is probably deluded, and heroic. 

[Jim Alfredson]

55 minutes ago, cbhathco said:

Anyone who gigs these things is probably deluded, and heroic. 

 

Or they have roadies, as I'm sure Medeski does.  And good for him! But many of us schlubs don't, so I'll use my trusty XK5 and K2700 and have every sound under the sun covered.

[Matthiola]

5 hours ago, cbhathco said:

‘each of my keyboards has its own sound world. I think of them as different personalities, and that's why they each have their own amplifier’ (Medeski quote)

When I saw/heard MMW live for the first time (Melkweg, Amsterdam), Medeski had a wall of vintage amps behind his setup. Initially I thought of it as a gimmick. Until they started playing… wow, never, ever heard such a gorgeous, crisp and articulate keyboard sound on stage. Just jaw dropping.

Now as Jim said this is simply not feasible for most of us. Nevertheless the experience changed my view on keyboards an amps entirely. I’ve tried to replicate this on a much smaller scale. That means some serious limitations, but also allows (for me) more focus on the playing and the music itself.

Another game changing experience for me was seeing Patrick Muller live (w Erik Truffaz Q). The only keyboard he used was a Rhodes, but with an array of effect pedals on top. It sounded like a compete arsenal of different synths… just staggering. So… a single board not necessary means limited sound I guess.

 

Anyway, I’m exited to see more and more boutique keyboard instruments are coming to market. Keyboardists deserve that choice (like guitarists do )

[pianomikeoct]

I have had three Wurly's back in the Seventies, they were 650 dollars new the last one cost 500 dollars new because they were going out of business, the new Rhodes they are selling today have outrageous prices, but I read that Wurlitzer is going to come out with a new instrument and knowing a little about the Wurlitzer brand if the stay true to form I am guessing the price on their new piano will be 5,000 dollars or lower just because their motto used to be music for millions , so I think they will make it as affordable as possible.

[analogika]

35 minutes ago, pianomikeoct said:

I have had three Wurly's back in the Seventies, they were 650 dollars new the last one cost 500 dollars new because they were going out of business, the new Rhodes they are selling today have outrageous prices, but I read that Wurlitzer is going to come out with a new instrument and knowing a little about the Wurlitzer brand if the stay true to form I am guessing the price on their new piano will be 5,000 dollars or lower just because their motto used to be music for millions , so I think they will make it as affordable as possible.

This appears to be a German family of that name having secured the brand name rights and licensing them out to…someone. 
 

This company has no connection to the original in anything other than name, from what we know so far. 

[pianomikeoct]

Hope they follow the old companies formula, I am sure they should be able to make a better Wurlitzer at an affordable price.

[pianomikeoct]

On 1/31/2024 at 9:37 AM, ProfD said:

The 200A was just the tool he chose to use.  Donny Hathaway as a musician/composer made the instrument sing.😎

 

[pianomikeoct]

I had a 200A back when they came out and I had the 200 before that, out of all the wurllies out there I think the 200A was the best , I ran mine through Ampeg 100 watt tube amp with a 12 inch speaker, it sounded beautiful.

[pianomikeoct]

I was just looking for anything new on the new Wurlitzers coming out in 2024 and it said the original Wurlitzer Family had obtained the rights to I in 20 21 so I think they will keep the prices from being over inflated and I am getting some decent money back from my tax returns, I am very interested in the New Wurlie E Piano.

[zxcvbnm098]

1 hour ago, pianomikeoct said:

I had a 200A back when they came out and I had the 200 before that, out of all the wurllies out there I think the 200A was the best , I ran mine through Ampeg 100 watt tube amp with a 12 inch speaker, it sounded beautiful.

Essentially what Ian McLagan used on the classic Faces tunes. What a sound......and what a player. 

[pianomikeoct]

It was way back in the seventies , and I remember my Ampeg amp had two 12 in speakers , I did play one of the Rod Stewart songs on it , Stay with me I think the songs name was , Red lips hair and fingernails I heard she's a mean old jezebel , something like that.