Yamaha E.S.P - as it pertains to Montage M

[ElmerJFudd]

BLAKE'S TAKE: E.S.P. FOR MONTAGE M

 

 

The MONTAGE M Expanded Softsynth Plugin (E.S.P.) is here – putting MONTAGE M in your computer!

 

This initial “Quick Edit “version offers MONTAGE M sound plus basic editing. Future versions (coming soon) will add full editing, enhanced connectivity and more. Read on to learn more.

 

E.S.P. Computer Hardware and Software Requirements:

Windows: Windows 10 or later. 64-bit required

Plugin format: VST 3

Minimum CPU: Intel Core i5 (4th Gen) or AMD Ryzen

 

Mac: MacOS Monterey or later

Plugin format: VST 3, AU v2

Minimum CPU: Intel Core i5 (late 2015 or later) or Apple Silicon M1 or later

Apple Silicon M series is recommended.

 

Minimum system memory: 8 Gb RAM or more

Storage required: 10 Gb free space.

Display resolution: 1440 x 870 or above recommended.

 

Software

Yamaha Steinberg USB Driver for Windows or Mac OS. MONTAGE OS v1.20: E.S.P. Quick Edit requires MONTAGE M OS v1.20. This latest OS version adds additional integration components for seamless connection between MONTAGE M and E.S.P. Get MONTAGE M OS v1.20 here. Please see the READ ME file included with the MONTAGE M OS v1.20 download package for more information.

 

DAW

E.S.P. is available in VST3 and Apple AU Plugin formats. If you don’t own DAW software, no worries: MONTAGE M owners can download Cubase AI for Mac or PC here free of charge. In the box with MONTAGE M is the Cubase AI Download Information card. It looks like this:

 

MORE IN THE LINKED ARTICLE

 

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Vagueness continues -

 

It seems you need the hardware; they aren't selling the plug-in separately.   If so, that's a bizarre choice as those who would want the VST most are those that don't own the hardware. 

 

If it requires the hardware - do you have to always have your Montage M with you?  You couldn't say, take all your Montage M playlists on your MacBook to a gig and just use the backline's keyboard or other controller? 

 

It doesn't have a standalone version?  Only wrapped as AU/VST so you have to use a host? 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

If Yamaha is looking at this as a way of directing users to Cubase - perhaps it should be included with Cubase or available for Cubase in Absolute.   
 

A Montage M VST would be most compelling as a part of VST Live (Steinberg’s MainStage).  

[allan_evett]

I'd be all over this if it was available as an AU/VST for non-Montage owners. I'm a former Montage/MODX user; and while my CK88 is fine for stage work, it'd be great to have access to the  extensive sounds and editing features from AWM history - and beyond. 

I've experimented with various versions of Halion Sonic over the past decade or so - trying it on a couple different Macs, but it's been somewhat messy: lots of issues with Steinberg's USB drivers and eLicensing. Lots of Motif/Montage history there, but it's never really worked smoothly here.

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, allan_evett said:

I'd be all over this if it was available as an AU/VST for non-Montage owners. I'm a former Montage/MODX user; and while my CK88 is fine for stage work, it'd be great to have access to the  extensive sounds and editing features from AWM history - and beyond. 

I've experimented with various versions of Halion Sonic over the past decade or so - trying it on a couple different Macs, but it's been somewhat messy: lots of issues with Steinberg's USB drivers and eLicensing. Lots of Motif/Montage history there, but it's never really worked smoothly here.

Most recently if I understand correctly, they’ve moved away from the eLicenser. Which hardware were you having USB issues with? 

[jazzpiano88]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

If Yamaha is looking at this as a way of directing users to Cubase - perhaps it should be included with Cubase or available for Cubase in Absolute.   

It is.  An access code is provided to download a full version of Cubase AI.  

[ElmerJFudd]

9 minutes ago, jazzpiano88 said:

It is.  An access code is provided to download a full version of Cubase AI.  

That’s the reverse direction, you need a Montage to get the ESP which comes with a code for Cubase AI.   As opposed to those that purchase full Cubase can add the ESP (as they would Halion or Padshop).  

[jazzpiano88]

21 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

29 minutes ago, jazzpiano88 said:

It is.  An access code is provided to download a full version of Cubase AI.  

That’s the reverse direction, you need a Montage to get the ESP which comes with a code for Cubase AI.   As opposed to those that purchase full Cubase can add the ESP (as they would Halion or Padshop).  

 

Ah, I get your point.   Sorry for my confusion.  Yes, that would make sense to include it with Cubase (along with a possible upcharge).

I've been wanting to try Halion to play with the FM interface.

[konaboy]

just a matter of time before it becomes available to general public.

 

makes no sense to invest in developing a product just to give away for free to a tiny subset of the market. as pointed out, owners of hardware are the least interested in the software.

 

expect "omnisphere league" pricing or even subscription.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 minute ago, konaboy said:

just a matter of time before it becomes available to general public.

 

makes no sense to invest in developing a product just to give away for free to a tiny subset of the market. as pointed out, owners of hardware are the least interested in the software.

 

expect "omnisphere league" pricing or even subscription.

 

 

It’s a 10gb install, I’m guessing the library is in wav format as opposed to AWM2.  

[Analogaddict]

I installed it on my Mac Mini as soon as it was available. If I understand correctly, it will be 100% independent and still compatible with the HW. For me this is a really big deal since I play in a couple of different bands and if I travel I won’t have to bring the Montage. If I have a steady gig in another town, I could leave a rig at the venue and travel by train. A LOT less logistics if it works out. 🤩 And this far it’s looking really good. Superknob is CC95 and using my Lab4music Sipario I can translate any midi message to CC95. Win!!!

[ElmerJFudd]

2 hours ago, Analogaddict said:

I installed it on my Mac Mini as soon as it was available. If I understand correctly, it will be 100% independent and still compatible with the HW. For me this is a really big deal since I play in a couple of different bands and if I travel I won’t have to bring the Montage. If I have a steady gig in another town, I could leave a rig at the venue and travel by train. A LOT less logistics if it works out. 🤩 And this far it’s looking really good. Superknob is CC95 and using my Lab4music Sipario I can translate any midi message to CC95. Win!!!

That’s exactly how I imagine this being awesome.  Consistency no matter where you go regardless of having the Montage M with you or not.  

[ElmerJFudd]

 

[felis]

10 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

 

Ah, I get your point.   Sorry for my confusion.  Yes, that would make sense to include it with Cubase (along with a possible upcharge).

I've been wanting to try Halion to play with the FM interface.

 

Halion has a fully functioning 30 day demo if you're willing to jump through the hoops.

https://www.steinberg.net/vst-instruments/halion/trial/

[JamesInPA]

Right now, this the most expensive VST ever!

[DeltaJockey]

Blake and other Yamaha dudes are really pushing the multiple instances thing. There's buckets of optimism floating around.

 

From my experience so far, many instances would have to contain some fairly light performances on each. On my Mac Studio and m1 Pro Macbook Pro, I came into issue very quickly by selecting just one of those more complex morphing arpeggiations. The playing thread on Logic maxed out and the sound broke up. I tried different audio interfaces, different DAW's etc. and that was on only one instance!

I can only hope that further builds will be a bit more resource friendly. Maybe it's been optimised for Cubase, which I don't use, I don't know.

I believe I'm not the only one, so time will tell. Overall, it's quite polished for what it is, and I'm cautiously impressed 👍

[jazzpiano88]

45 minutes ago, JamesInPA said:

Right now, this the most expensive VST ever!

I would disagree.  It’s only offered to owners of the Montage M.  And for them, it’s free. 

[Analogaddict]

An even better option imho would be a Montage M module with USB and LAN ports and all the inputs and outputs of the big Montage. If you’re in a computer environment, simply connect to your computer, if you’re playing live just bring the module. I can see loads of people that would love to add the Montage sound to their rig but already have rigs and no need for another board, but still not using Mainstage and so on to the extent where a montage ESP changes their current workflow. 

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, JamesInPA said:

Right now, this the most expensive VST ever!

7 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

I would disagree.  It’s only offered to owners of the Montage M.  And for them, it’s free. 

 

Nah, I agree with James... because if you just want this "free" VST, you have to spend over $3000 to get it.

[ElmerJFudd]

8 hours ago, jazzpiano88 said:

I would disagree.  It’s only offered to owners of the Montage M.  And for them, it’s free. 

As we all know, nothing is free. The customer is certainly paying for development of ESP.  

[ElmerJFudd]

8 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

Blake and other Yamaha dudes are really pushing the multiple instances thing. There's buckets of optimism floating around.

 

From my experience so far, many instances would have to contain some fairly light performances on each. On my Mac Studio and m1 Pro Macbook Pro, I came into issue very quickly by selecting just one of those more complex morphing arpeggiations. The playing thread on Logic maxed out and the sound broke up. I tried different audio interfaces, different DAW's etc. and that was on only one instance!

I can only hope that further builds will be a bit more resource friendly. Maybe it's been optimised for Cubase, which I don't use, I don't know.

I believe I'm not the only one, so time will tell. Overall, it's quite polished for what it is, and I'm cautiously impressed 👍

In DAW situation you can simply raise the buffer to max to work on projects with heavier cpu needs.  You can also freeze tracks when necessary. 
 

I hope to hear back from MainStage users however where real time low latency is critical for performance.  Can one have two or three instances of Montage M in the same patch?   

[Analogaddict]

8 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Can one have two or three instances of Montage M in the same patch?   

Each instance is multitimbral..! 👍

[ElmerJFudd]

16 minutes ago, Analogaddict said:

Each instance is multitimbral..! 👍

So little need to have more than one instance at a time.  Maybe when in complex voice mode?  I don’t have an M but that’s how previous generation Yamaha stuff worked.  
 

But less to the question of would we need to - how does a modern Mac handle having two or three instances of Montage M open in a MainStage patch.  Does the CPU bark? 

[Analogaddict]

14 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

how does a modern Mac handle having two or three instances of Montage M open in a MainStage patch.  Does the CPU bark? 

I loaded a couple of presets in Key Performer just to try and it seemed to work fine. I’m getting my laptop back on Tuesday, I’ll try more then..! It’s a 2015 MBP with 8 gb ram so I’m guessing it will choke. 😅

[ElmerJFudd]

13 minutes ago, Analogaddict said:

I loaded a couple of presets in Key Performer just to try and it seemed to work fine. I’m getting my laptop back on Tuesday, I’ll try more then..! It’s a 2015 MBP with 8 gb ram so I’m guessing it will choke. 😅

Mine is a 2013 with 8gb.  

[konaboy]

no, i think the others are right.  most expensive vst ever.

$5000 for the plugin bur you do get a free M8X.

[DeltaJockey]

6 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

In DAW situation you can simply raise the buffer to max to work on projects with heavier cpu needs.  You can also freeze tracks when necessary. 
 

I hope to hear back from MainStage users however where real time low latency is critical for performance.  Can one have two or three instances of Montage M in the same patch?   

I simply tried everything. Every buffer size, sample rate etc. The issue I see, is it's more about thread use than cpu load in total. When playing a live track in Logic, it seems to use one thread per track, and doesn't share with other threads. It's the same effect with Mainstage. I loaded it in Mainstage and on some performances the sound broke up when playing lots of notes or sounds with long sustains. (The same sounds played in the same way on the hardware Montage is not a problem). Realtime latency isn't an issue when playing live. Most performances on the whole are pretty good. So having multiple instances of performances which don't max out each thread would work. When using multiple instances you're not going to be live playing them all at once in Logic so that should be ok. But I wouldn't layer several instances in Mainstage and play live, haven't tried it, but I can guess where that will go!

[ElmerJFudd]

18 minutes ago, DeltaJockey said:

I simply tried everything. Every buffer size, sample rate etc. The issue I see, is it's more about thread use than cpu load in total. When playing a live track in Logic, it seems to use one thread per track, and doesn't share with other threads. It's the same effect with Mainstage. I loaded it in Mainstage and on some performances the sound broke up when playing lots of notes or sounds with long sustains. (The same sounds played in the same way on the hardware Montage is not a problem). Realtime latency isn't an issue when playing live. Most performances on the whole are pretty good. So having multiple instances of performances which don't max out each thread would work. When using multiple instances you're not going to be live playing them all at once in Logic so that should be ok. But I wouldn't layer several instances in Mainstage and play live, haven't tried it, but I can guess where that will go!

Two issue possible here.   Logic and MainStage need an update to take advantage of all cores on newer Apple silicon like the M2.  Yamaha/Steinberg have some efficiency improvements to make.   Of course we can't test the latter because there is no standalone version of Montage M.   But someone with access can try Montage M in other hosts like Gig Performer for instance.  

[DeltaJockey]

12 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Two issue possible here.   Logic and MainStage need an update to take advantage of all cores on newer Apple silicon like the M2.  Yamaha/Steinberg have some efficiency improvements to make.   Of course we can't test the latter because there is no standalone version of Montage M.   But someone with access can try Montage M in other hosts like Gig Performer for instance.  

Yes, I think a Logic/Mainstage update is in order. The Steinberg/Yamaha driver isn't in the picture, because I didn't have the Montage hardware connected. Though the problem occurred when playing using the Montage as a DAW contoller, I also tried it through my RD88, and its USB audio. Same. I then suspecting issues with Logic, loaded the Montage vst via another vst host which came with a Nektar controller I have, (Nektarine). Same thing happened, So maybe the thread issue is a Mac OS issue. I'm running Sonoma 14.3.  Acutally, the more I look at what I've just said, the more confused I am, and the more I don't know 🤔

[Analogaddict]

I installed it on my 2015 MBP today - unfortunately the UI doesn’t fit the screen and I can’t find any way to resize it… 🤦‍♂️I can’t scroll to the first two parts and therefore I can’t load anything. I’ll try again tomorrow. 

[Motif88]

24 minutes ago, Analogaddict said:

I installed it on my 2015 MBP today - unfortunately the UI doesn’t fit the screen and I can’t find any way to resize it… 🤦‍♂️I can’t scroll to the first two parts and therefore I can’t load anything. I’ll try again tomorrow. 

What native display resolution are you using for your MBP?