Introducing UB-Xa

[ElmerJFudd]

The most watched YouTubers will have their hands on a UB-Xa soon and will A/B it with the OB-Xa it attempts to clone.   This type of comparison is exactly what the designers planned for - let’s see how it does.  

[Radagast]

15 hours ago, RABid said:

I think they are going to have to come down on that price. Way down. Poly-aftertouch is nice but for $1500 I can get a MODX+ with a DX7 inside, a 128 voice DX7, and a lot of other stuff. Or I can get a Fantom 0 which can cover a lot of vintage analog sounds, plus a lot more. $1500 is a tough place to compete right now.

Then you should say the exact same thing for every other analog synth out there, including the ones made by manufacturers approved by this crowd.

[ChazKeys]

This is worth another watch - it's the guys from Midas at the start of their development journey 5 years ago. I'm not sure if they are still involved in the final product but I liked how candid they were about how close they could get to the original. 

 

https://youtu.be/Zp-UmxMDXKQ

[ProfD]

17 hours ago, RABid said:

I think they are going to have to come down on that price. Way down. Poly-aftertouch is nice but for $1500 I can get a MODX+ with a DX7 inside, a 128 voice DX7, and a lot of other stuff. Or I can get a Fantom 0 which can cover a lot of vintage analog sounds, plus a lot more. $1500 is a tough place to compete right now.

Not really.  It's apples and oranges. 

 

A MODX+ is aimed at the preset user market.  Very few MODX+ will program their own sounds regardless of whether there is a DX7 or or a CS-80 inside. They might come up with performances, splits and layers for playing cover tunes.

 

OTOH, a tactile, poly synth is a sound designers dream especially if it has a Tums-like effect on nostalgia in providing some semblance of a synth from yesteryear.  A $1,500 price tag allows those users/enthusiasts to buy more than one synth compared to a reissued classic.😎

[Threadslayer]

On 11/22/2023 at 5:02 AM, mpn_user7629 said:

People can bark and rant all they want, it IS an Oberheim OB-Xa.

 

Behringer has done it again, whether we admit it or not.

 

 

I think it sounds terrific and would love to have one.

I don't care who makes it.

[SteveCoscia]

Just saw this thread today for the first time.  The video looks and sounds great - Behringer will sell a boatload.

 

I might buy one someday, but I don't need it right now.  I haven't maximized my current keyboards and sound gear, plus I am in the midst of a fun sequencing project using the Casio PX-560M and MZ-X500.  That being said, my hands are full at the moment.

 

Getting older has made me less susceptible to GAS and its contagion.

[ElmerJFudd]

8 hours ago, Radagast said:

Then you should say the exact same thing for every other analog synth out there, including the ones made by manufacturers approved by this crowd.

As with all things there can be a certain snobbery in analogue synths and synth brands.  As with cars, nothing Nissan makes, not even the GTR or 370Z would be considered.   They just aren’t an M3 or 911.  With motorcycles nothing from Yamaha, Honda or Kawasaki can offer a riding experience like a Harley Davidson.  

 

Some fans won’t consider any analogue synth other than a DS/Sequential, Moog, Oberheim (regardless from what factory the components are sourced or who owns the brand in ).  Any other brand is a knock off and in Behringer’s case it’s always quite obvious - they largely make clones, knock-offs, shān zhài.  
 

The west traditionally values branding, a success story (particularly in the face of adversity), history, lineage and IP of course.  In certain Asian markets there isn’t much regard for branding and IP and little in the way of protection for ideas, designs or being first. If you can build it good enough and sell it cheap enough you win.  
 

Since the day Western brands decided chasing cheapest labor far and wide was the surest path to winning lines are very blurry indeed.  What does Fender branding mean today? Their guitars and basses are made in the US, Japan, China, Mexico and may or may not have these or those components made who knows where. Players largely resort to picking one they’ve held in their hands and plays well, is within their price range and may or may not swap out pickups or a tail  piece, better tuners.  🤷‍♂️ 

 

[ABECK]

8 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

The most watched YouTubers will have their hands on a UB-Xa soon and will A/B it with the OB-Xa it attempts to clone.   This type of comparison is exactly what the designers planned for - let’s see how it does.  

I'd be interested to hear it compared to other modern "recreations", like the OB-6.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, ABECK said:

I'd be interested to hear it compared to other modern "recreations", like the OB-6.

 

Definitely.  That’s a lovely sounding $3500 six voice analogue.  Can Behringer bring a good sounding analogue poly synth to market at less than half the price?  I’m sure they can but it won’t be Sequential or Oberheim branded (or designed) and it won’t sound exactly like an OB-Xa.  But how far off?  We shall see. 

[ProfD]

1 hour ago, ABECK said:

I'd be interested to hear it compared to other modern "recreations", like the OB-6.

 

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Can Behringer bring a good sounding analogue poly synth to market at less than half the price?  I’m sure they can but it won’t be Sequential or Oberheim branded (or designed) and it won’t sound exactly like an OB-Xa.  But how far off?  We shall see. 

It would be great for the B company if the UB-Xa sounded nothing like the other offerings  

 

Then, they could change the name and color scheme and let it be it's own thing.😁😎

[ElmerJFudd]

19 minutes ago, ProfD said:

 

It would be great for the B company if the UB-Xa sounded nothing like the other offerings  

 

Then, they could change the name and color scheme and let it be it's own thing.😁😎

I personally agree.  I really wish they focused on new synths that are inspired by the classics (even if they do actually decide to put modern features or improvements on their clones).  However their market research suggests they are taking the right approach.  The day Uli Behringer took the stage and suggested they would be cloning sought after analogs his audience was chomping at the bit.  A recent scroll through the music tribe group on facebook shows daily requests - please clone this, please clone that.  Nostalgia is big business, and the software developers modeling vintage hardware will concur.  

[Radagast]

4 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Definitely.  That’s a lovely sounding $3500 six voice analogue.  Can Behringer bring a good sounding analogue poly synth to market at less than half the price?  I’m sure they can but it won’t be Sequential or Oberheim branded (or designed) and it won’t sound exactly like an OB-Xa.  But how far off?  We shall see. 

But as RABid said, $3500 is a lot more than synths from Yamaha and Roland. 

[ElmerJFudd]

28 minutes ago, Radagast said:

But as RABid said, $3500 is a lot more than synths from Yamaha and Roland. 

It is - but are digital synths the same as analogue synths?
 

The sounds in a digital synth are software and samples.  They can be made to play on all sorts of computing devices.  The unique sound of an analog synthesizer requires specific physical components to create their sound. 
 

In current times are analogue synths the only synths worth owning?  🤔

 

Or, has software modeling defeated the purpose of owning any hardware other than a controller and a computer?  
 

The wild cards are ease of use and feeling of connection to the player (does it feel like an instrument?). 

[timwat]

5 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It is - but are digital synths the same as analogue synths?
 

The sounds in a digital synth are software and samples.  They can be made to play on all sorts of computing devices.  The unique sound of an analog synthesizer requires specific physical components to create their sound. 
 

In current times are analogue synths the only synths worth owning?  🤔

 

Or, has software modeling defeated the purpose of owning any hardware other than a controller an a computer?  

 

There's room for all of these options at the buffet. 

 

 

[Radagast]

51 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

It is - but are digital synths the same as analogue synths?
 

The sounds in a digital synth are software and samples.  They can be made to play on all sorts of computing devices.  The unique sound of an analog synthesizer requires specific physical components to create their sound. 
 

In current times are analogue synths the only synths worth owning?  🤔

 

Or, has software modeling defeated the purpose of owning any hardware other than a controller and a computer?  
 

The wild cards are ease of use and feeling of connection to the player (does it feel like an instrument?). 

The point I’m trying to make is that criticizing the Behringer for its price by comparing it to various digital alternatives, never seems to happen to other manufacturers of much more expensive analog synths.  Therefore it’s silly to criticize the UB-XA for its price.

[ElmerJFudd]

47 minutes ago, Radagast said:

The point I’m trying to make is that criticizing the Behringer for its price by comparing it to various digital alternatives, never seems to happen to other manufacturers of much more expensive analog synths.  Therefore it’s silly to criticize the UB-XA for its price.

Price has long been Behringer’s strongest selling point (if not sound or build quality). But in recent years they’ve added sound, features and even reliability on at least a few products. Perhaps through their acquisitions and experiences they’ve grown.  

 

[kpl1228]

All I can think of is this.

 

[ProfD]

18 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

....but are digital synths the same as analogue synths?

Different methods of producing soundd but in most cases hard to tell the difference in a blind listening test.

 

Beyond the geek/nerd/tech level, digital and analog are the same when it comes to making organized noise i.e. music.

 

Digital synths usually have more features and resolve the maintenance issues that come with analog synths.

 

A computer, software and MIDI KB controller accomplish synthesis similar to digital but lacks the immediacy of a tactile, fully integrated KB.

 

Personally, I get more enjoyment in sound design turning knobs on a simple VA synth than mousing around on a computer. 🤣😎

[Dr Mike Metlay]

I wonder how they implemented the left-hand paddles? I never liked wheels except on keytars, hated PPC, was never all that comfortable with ribbons, and could just about fumble along decently well on the Roland wangbar, but I really learned to solo most fluidly on the Oberheim Xk and Matrix-12, as the paddle placement and movement axes were and are far more natural to me than anything else. It will be interesting to see how closely the ones on the UB-Xa hew to the original.

 

Other than that, meh, whatevs. $1500 for a pair of paddles isn't a good investment, even if they work the way my left hand wants them to, and if I want a keyboard with poly AT, 16 voices with splits and layers, and a lot of cool extra trimmings, I'll buy a Hydrasynth Deluxe to go with my OG and Explorer.* I was a loyal Oberheim owner for well over 30 years and might be again someday, but if I need blue pinstripes that badly, I'll paint them on my Hydra.

 

And before folks come rushing in with fists flying:

 

My opinions on B are my own. They are based on personal experiences no one here shares (have YOU sat down for dinner and a chat with Uli Behringer? I have). Therefore they can't be shared by anyone else, let alone be some kind of gospel truth that I think everyone should adhere to. They are my opinions, and they guide my buying practices, and I choose not to own or buy B gear. That's all I have to say, and I frankly don't give a carefully baby powdered and perfume-scented rat's ass what you think about B synths or B business practices or B marketing or B anything at all. You do you and I'll do me. M'kay? M'kay.

 

mike

 

*PS. Someday I will find a gear modder with more balls than common sense to do what ASM says can't be done: remove the wheels from the keyboard, and flip them 180 degrees so the pitch bender is on the right with sharp being towards you and the mod wheel is on the left with 0 at the top, OB stylee. But that's just me. (Maybe I can get the same person to redo the top panel with blue pinstripes and the Obie font. Actually, what IS the Obie font...?)

[CrossRhodes]

On 11/20/2023 at 10:16 AM, ABECK said:

 

 

Sounds great! Looking forward to more reviews.

[David Emm]

18 hours ago, Dr Mike Metlay said:

Other than that, meh, whatevs. $1500 for a pair of paddles isn't a good investment, even if they work the way my left hand wants them to, and if I want a keyboard with poly AT, 16 voices with splits and layers, and a lot of cool extra trimmings, I'll buy a Hydrasynth Deluxe to go with my OG and Explorer.* I was a loyal Oberheim owner for well over 30 years and might be again someday, but if I need blue pinstripes that badly, I'll paint them on my Hydra.

 

I took a short flight of fancy and discarded all the debate to simply consider a total newbie suddenly having a UB-XA. If it does indeed hold up, they're gonna be in a psychedelic mode for some time. My first poly was a Prophet 600 and I was dazzled. I had a few crap synths along the way, but that was a defining moment. If a UB-XA newbie uses it as a springboard into the larger world, it's hard to call it a Miss.  

 

 

[TomKittel]

A few years ago I had a Behringer Deepmind here for testing. I tried to like it because it was cheap and I could easily afford it. But it didn't satisfy me at all. I just couldn't get rid of the Behringer fake smell it was giving off. We are all spoiled by cheap overseas throwaway goods we are flooded with these days. At first glance, it is tempting to get something cheap that previously seemed unattainable. But Behringer's mass-products didn't ever make me happy and I don't own a single B product. Instead of the Deepmind I got myself a Sequential Prophet 6 and a REV 2 later on. To me buying a UB-Xa would feel like supporting questionable me-too business practices. This is just me. Others might feel different. And Behringer will for sure drive the next supposed piggy bank through the synth lovers village. But you can't buy love... 😜

[Stokely]

Taking what ProfD says further, I'd love to have a bunch of analog purists put some money up on a blind test with digital keyboards and VSTs.

 

I tried to like the Deepmind.  I just didn't like the sound for what I wanted (which was Prophet/Obie type simple poly and lead sounds).  There just wasn't enough oomph to it.  It sounded good on pads and ambient stuff but that wasn't a need.    That said, the build quality was better than I expected for something that cheap.  

 

Not sure I'll ever have a synth-only keyboard in my live rig again (and am only software at home).  I have a Summit sitting in a case as it is; not sure if I'm going to sell it or keep it just in case I go back to two keyboards.  I really like it but I also like the one-keyboard convenience!     I could possibly see a tabletop version of something (OB6 maybe) in my rig, but so far the Nord Stage 3 has covered my synth needs just fine.

 

[Radagast]

8 minutes ago, Stokely said:

Taking what ProfD says further, I'd love to have a bunch of analog purists put some money up on a blind test with digital keyboards and VSTs.

 

I would like to see that.

[Radagast]

10 minutes ago, Stokely said:

 

 

I tried to like the Deepmind.  I just didn't like the sound for what I wanted (which was Prophet/Obie type simple poly and lead sounds).  There just wasn't enough oomph to it.  It sounded good on pads and ambient stuff but that wasn't a need.    That said, the build quality was better than I expected for something that cheap.  

 

The Deepmind uses DCOs if IIRC.  VCOs are always going to sound warmer.

[Tusker]

I'd suggest that while for many of us, the analog synth was a mind-blowing discovery (it was for me), for today's ears it may not hold the same unique charm.  When I see young musicians play they have respect for those warm analog timbres yes, but they are also enjoying granular, spectral and other tools that they find novel.

[jerrythek]

1 hour ago, Radagast said:

The Deepmind uses DCOs if IIRC.

Looking it up, they say:

 

DEEPMIND 12

"With the creation of DEEPMIND 12, the ultimate true analog, 12-voice polyphonic synthesizer is finally a reality. DEEPMIND 12 allows you to conjure up virtually any sound you can imagine with unparalleled finesse and ease. Thanks to its 4 FX engines, dual analog OSCs and LFOs per voice, 3 ADSR Generators, 8-Channel Modulation Matrix and onboard 32-Step Control Sequencer, the DEEPMIND 12 gives you complete control over your soundscape. Plus, DEEPMIND 12 features comprehensive remote control via iPad */PC/Mac and selected Android * Apps over USB, MIDI or built-in WiFi – for a custom-tailored workflow that lets your creative spirit soar to new heights."

[Doerfler]

1 hour ago, Tusker said:

I'd suggest that while for many of us, the analog synth was a mind-blowing discovery (it was for me), for today's ears it may not hold the same unique charm.  When I see young musicians play they have respect for those warm analog timbres yes, but they are also enjoying granular, spectral and other tools that they find novel.

excellent POV, Jerry.

Love the new avatar. 

[ABECK]

The waveform in a DCO is still technically analog, it's just controlled digitally, hence the "dual analog oscillator" description.

[MAJUSCULE]

I'm sure they'll sell plenty at the current price point.

 

Enough to cover the R&D costs? Too soon to tell. Enough to continue to tilt the market landscape in their favour and make life increasingly difficult for smaller companies? Yeah, I'd say that's likely.