Introducing UB-Xa

[JoJoB3]

2 hours ago, bennyray said:

Gentlemen you get what you pay for Mic Drop!

 

The OB -X8 is superior hands down if you ain't first you are last.

Ew boy. Are things in keyboard land so shitty we have to keep going to the same dry well?
This stuff goes hand in hand with the "who's the greatest [instrument here] ..." stuff.

I LOVE my vintage selection here, each of them chosen for their role...but I hate to break it to ya, few people really give a rip today the superiority thing (anyone worth a damn that is).  I understand outlier cases but mainly it's just 'collector fodder' at best now. What matters are what the brain and fingers do with any of these things.  That's it...and that's all that should matter btw.  Revisit the Knower thread for a good example. Those young humans are absolutely ripping (live and in studio) on free to $50 maudio controllers via 'anything making sound', whether cheap/free VSTs to Spectrasonics latest.  It's always about the use, not the toy.

Personally I've found myself in approx zero situations begging for an OB and so I'm not in the race with this one but from what I'm hearing from OB owners and folks using it it turns out the B word (fortunately? unfortunately?) has another one in the line to consider here. But for me midi and layering with the ESQ1 and SQ80 fill the role just fine.  Not all in the B synth dept. interests me but I do dig their Poly-D (and the Model D), DM12 and 2600 (and ODY actually). Great sounds, size, functionality. I was NOT expecting to like them. I only buy used now but they could've charged more and I'd likely still own them.

Anyway it's been stated very well by so many others here but they're right, B company really isn't stealing customers away.  Again I'm sorry but in a way they're fostering the future (in hardware synth realm).  I mean, there are folks with serious need for an OB. Discerning, adult users/buyers with a clear musical need for an OB and they make their decisions after weighing everything thoroughly.  Banter like this isn't on their radar,  they're going to get into their OB/Moog/etc. (so really who are we speaking to anymore?). Here's what's what - the synth division at Behringer is bringing some of the classic clones to a new generation and I'm sorry but in the long run this is nothing but a good thing (for all!  Dear vintage collectors/future sellers: you WANT a new gen interested in hardware).

Also and admittedly,  personally I'd rather see less people going 'VST synth' and tapping the connection of human to hardware  - the immediacy of it all (synthesis and performance).  It's a thing (well, can be) and it leads to better music made, better musicianship.

Also, you don't see this ridiculous back and forth/invented drama in the class A mic preamp realm for example. There it's 100% about how well and accurate the clone and you can never have enough. Go ahead and test those waters. Tell BAE or SCA owners how awful they are for not hunting a vintage 1073 and see how it goes for example.  They're gonna read the riot act to ya before giving the boot (these folks are serious about their input!).
Same goes with the Hammond clones in a sense. Most aren't looking for Hammond's 'new take and twist' on the classic sound, they want that classic sound (and feel) - to a T.

Come on, let's get outta the sandbox.
 

[David Emm]

1 hour ago, JoJoB3 said:

 >> Ew boy. Are things in keyboard land so shitty we have to keep going to the same dry well?
This stuff goes hand in hand with the "who's the greatest [instrument here] ..." stuff.

 

After years at this, I do tend to wonder what personal issues underly someone foaming at the mouth over a synth. Last time I looked, its already so esoteric that the argument comes off like a junior high fist fight. The greatest instrument is the one that gives ME a synth-boner. The rest of you are on your own!  

 

1 hour ago, JoJoB3 said:

 >> Also and admittedly,  personally I'd rather see less people going 'VST synth' and tapping the connection of human to hardware  - the immediacy of it all (synthesis and performance).  It's a thing (well, can be) and it leads to better music made, better musicianship.

 

 I understand. I started out struggling to acquire gear, sometimes settling for less than I thought I wanted and then discovering that sweating over it often yielded the gold all the same. I had a moderate ring of synths that grew into a bigger one until I got tired of wrestling with the cords, power issues & MIDI tumult. That gradually shrank down to just Logic and two hardware synths, one having been a nice Xmas gift. I didn't lose my connection to hardware. My hands got creaky and led me to "just" a couple of controllers, but what I learned in getting here didn't disappear. It simply broadened into a Wakemanesque software stack. That's the only way I was going to land a Mellotron, a B-3 and a CS-80. I miss playing two-fisted piano, but its been a worthwhile trek from A to Here & Now. 

 >> Come on, let's get outta the sandbox.

 No! I enjoy the debate and I have a scoop for discarding the occasional cat turdette.

 

 

[ksoper]

On 12/13/2023 at 5:12 PM, jazzpiano88 said:

They spend a fair amount of time discussing Ghostbuster's ripoff of Huey Lewis's "I want a New Drug" and the ensuing lawsuit and settlement.   Ackroyd kind of defects the whole thing as "Yes, we ripped it off, but everyone got Paid and was happy in the end".   

 

 

 

Not to derail the thread, but I've always felt that Robin Scott (M) should've sued Huey Lewis for ripping off "Pop Muzik."  They're as close as Ghostbusters is to I Want A New Drug.  Unfortunately it was widely known that IWAND was the temp song and Reitman et. al. told Parker to "copy" it.  

[Sleeves]

On 11/20/2023 at 3:30 PM, GovernorSilver said:

There's been some talk of Behringer implementing polyphonic aftertouch in other keyboard products going forward.  

 

For those who have been looking for more new keyboards with poly AT, this has been a decent year:   Korg, Yamaha, and now Behringer joining ASM

And Native Instruments Kontrol. I never thought I’d see anyone put polyAT in a MIDI controller. 

[GovernorSilver]

15 hours ago, Sleeves said:

And Native Instruments Kontrol. I never thought I’d see anyone put polyAT in a MIDI controller. 

 

I'm more invested in Ableton Live than the Ni ecosystem (Maschine, Komplete, etc.), so I tend to overlook NI's controllers, but this is a fair observation.  

 

I only recently came across videos showing how to set up a Kontrol-S Mk3 for polyAT control over certain Ableton softsynths - they seem to target people who've invested in both Ableton and NI ecosystems.

[uhoh7]

Just an update, with more foaming

 

How many 16 voice analog polys have you owned? With stereo ouput tweakable per voice?

 

3 weeks in, I have got 8 or 10 presets tweaked to where they can entertain an ADD player for long periods. The "meh" keyboard is now one of my favorites, really the first super light action I've enjoyed. That was a matter of tweaking velocity and poly AT to various destinations in the matrix.

 

At this moment, for me, it's the most impressive electronic instrument I've played, in terms of a single preset retaining interest in my practice sessions. How's that for foaming? OK I'm in love with the thing, shoot me. I find it unique in my experience, very tactile, and super responsive to key and knob. Filters are unbelievable. 

 

Just another synth. My lying ears tell me different. But it did take me me weeks to develop this level of irrational affection. I wonder if back in the day, players tended to choose their instruments based on the personality of the money behind them, or the sound and performance of the instrument. Really smart money hides personality....sometimes behind very cultivated fictions, like Nike. The Behringer stigma is an object lesson why angels fear to "wing it" sharing their opinions in public. My last corporate boss often said "that's above my pay grade", as way to avoid comment on all manner of issues. 

 

Or who knows, maybe the stigma gets attention and saves advertising money?

 

That's a question I can't answer and don't enjoy contemplating. This keyboard, on the other hand, I consider a gift from the gods. Maybe in a year it'll be in the closet. But today it inspires attention. That's what I hoped to be paying for. 

 

Damn, I forgot to turn it on first thing.....it likes that. I leave it hot, self tuning through the day. 

[lsj]

On 2/20/2024 at 1:57 PM, JoJoB3 said:

Ew boy. Are things in keyboard land so shitty we have to keep going to the same dry well?
This stuff goes hand in hand with the "who's the greatest [instrument here] ..." stuff.

I LOVE my vintage selection here, each of them chosen for their role...but I hate to break it to ya, few people really give a rip today the superiority thing (anyone worth a damn that is).  I understand outlier cases but mainly it's just 'collector fodder' at best now. What matters are what the brain and fingers do with any of these things.  That's it...and that's all that should matter btw.  Revisit the Knower thread for a good example. Those young humans are absolutely ripping (live and in studio) on free to $50 maudio controllers via 'anything making sound', whether cheap/free VSTs to Spectrasonics latest.  It's always about the use, not the toy.

Personally I've found myself in approx zero situations begging for an OB and so I'm not in the race with this one but from what I'm hearing from OB owners and folks using it it turns out the B word (fortunately? unfortunately?) has another one in the line to consider here. But for me midi and layering with the ESQ1 and SQ80 fill the role just fine.  Not all in the B synth dept. interests me but I do dig their Poly-D (and the Model D), DM12 and 2600 (and ODY actually). Great sounds, size, functionality. I was NOT expecting to like them. I only buy used now but they could've charged more and I'd likely still own them.

Anyway it's been stated very well by so many others here but they're right, B company really isn't stealing customers away.  Again I'm sorry but in a way they're fostering the future (in hardware synth realm).  I mean, there are folks with serious need for an OB. Discerning, adult users/buyers with a clear musical need for an OB and they make their decisions after weighing everything thoroughly.  Banter like this isn't on their radar,  they're going to get into their OB/Moog/etc. (so really who are we speaking to anymore?). Here's what's what - the synth division at Behringer is bringing some of the classic clones to a new generation and I'm sorry but in the long run this is nothing but a good thing (for all!  Dear vintage collectors/future sellers: you WANT a new gen interested in hardware).

Also and admittedly,  personally I'd rather see less people going 'VST synth' and tapping the connection of human to hardware  - the immediacy of it all (synthesis and performance).  It's a thing (well, can be) and it leads to better music made, better musicianship.

Also, you don't see this ridiculous back and forth/invented drama in the class A mic preamp realm for example. There it's 100% about how well and accurate the clone and you can never have enough. Go ahead and test those waters. Tell BAE or SCA owners how awful they are for not hunting a vintage 1073 and see how it goes for example.  They're gonna read the riot act to ya before giving the boot (these folks are serious about their input!).
Same goes with the Hammond clones in a sense. Most aren't looking for Hammond's 'new take and twist' on the classic sound, they want that classic sound (and feel) - to a T.

Come on, let's get outta the sandbox.
 

great post and intellectual thinking.

[ProfD]

16 hours ago, uhoh7 said:

Just an update, with more foaming

 

At this moment, for me, it's the most impressive electronic instrument I've played...

 

OK I'm in love with the thing, shoot me. I find it unique in my experience....

 

This keyboard, on the other hand, I consider a gift from the gods. Maybe in a year it'll be in the closet. But today it inspires attention. That's what I hoped to be paying for. 

Awesome when the connection to an instrument inspires creativity.

 

Makes the purchase totally worth it regardless of how long the love affair lasts.

 

Continue having a blast with the UB-Xa mayne. 😎

[SteveCoscia]

This showed up on FB yesterday.  Makes much more sense for my setup.

 

[Melving]

On 2/20/2024 at 12:34 PM, bennyray said:

Gentlemen you get what you pay for Mic Drop!

 

The OB -X8 is superior hands down if you ain't first you are last.

Soo...  I got tired of waiting at Sweetwater and got a ?gray market UB-Xa at Alto.  Large number of annoyingly clicky keys (loud, hard bottoming) with admittedly enthusiastic playing, but who doesn't want to be able to play the keys?  Lots of clicky sounds - the "pop" issue I think it's called.  Poor volume levelling.  My ownership lasted 24 hours.  I hope others have had a better experience with the keybed?

 

Hope springs eternal.  Maybe I'll get a NI S61 MKIII with a pro 800

 

[J.F.N.]

On 2/20/2024 at 5:34 PM, bennyray said:

Gentlemen you get what you pay for Mic Drop!

 

The OB -X8 is superior hands down if you ain't first you are last.

 

Hmm let me think... Done - 8 voices for 5000€ vs 16 voices for 1200€, yup, I definitely get what I pay for, and I still have a huge chunk of cash left in my account!

 

 

[Baggypants]

On 2/20/2024 at 9:08 PM, David Emm said:

After years at this, I do tend to wonder what personal issues underly someone foaming at the mouth over a synth. Last time I looked, its already so esoteric that the argument comes off like a junior high fist fight.

Objectively, the Triceratops is the best of all the dinosaurs.

[Doerfler]

 

[J.F.N.]

I definitely have a Christmas present for myself coming up in December!!!

[ProfD]

The demo sounds in that OS 2.0 video definitely capture the 1980s vibe if that's supposed to be another selling point.😎

[David Emm]

On 8/31/2024 at 2:26 PM, ProfD said:

The demo sounds in that OS 2.0 video definitely capture the 1980s vibe if that's supposed to be another selling point.😎

 

The 2.0 update is surprisingly pro. So far as the 80s "vibe," even that idea has faded for me. Dual sawtooth patches chorused, panned L & R and reverb'd always sound like surfing in space. Its a part of Synth 101. I have several polysynths. Stack two or three of them and you all but have your own T.O.N.T.O. I feel well past seriously debating how pure a clone is. The building blocks are just a few clicks away.             

[Mighty Motif Max]

Played one of these today at GC! Never thought I'd see one in the wild out here. I was pleasantly surprised by the keybed - it's not bad at all IMO, and the aftertouch works nicely - miles better than my Fantom 7's (because you actually have a range of motion to use vs just off/on). The UI is very straightforward, which was nice.

 

Now for the not as nice part. The biggest thing I noticed is that it would really benefit from some effects. That's probably why the videos are so effects-laden.  Now, to be fair, I'm someone who grew up in the era of built-in effects in most keyboards/synths. I do have some outboard processors, but it's a tough sell for me to buy a new board with zero effects of any kind because I'd be gigging it, and no built-in effects means even more gear to haul than just an additional keyboard (the new Moog Muse at least has a nice delay). Honestly, a good EQ wouldn't hurt, as it really needs some more beef in the low-mids IMO. It just sounds a little flat - there was an Oberheim TEO-5 up above it that I could A/B test with - and while that's not truly an apples-to-apples comparison, the TEO-5 sounded way better, even on similar patches.

 

A few other things I noticed, and I'm guessing part of it's just my lack of familiarity with the original OBXA - it's lowest-note priority for monophonic patches, which threw me off a bit as I'm used to the opposite on pretty much all my other gear. The other thing is that notes would randomly hang when switching patches...I don't mind a clean cutoff, but it seems to be a midi note hang issue. Kind of annoying, but it could just be something I've gotten overly accustomed to with my other gear.

[J.F.N.]

8 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

Played one of these today at GC! Never thought I'd see one in the wild out here. I was pleasantly surprised by the keybed - it's not bad at all IMO, and the aftertouch works nicely - miles better than my Fantom 7's (because you actually have a range of motion to use vs just off/on). The UI is very straightforward, which was nice.

 

Now for the not as nice part. The biggest thing I noticed is that it would really benefit from some effects. That's probably why the videos are so effects-laden.  Now, to be fair, I'm someone who grew up in the era of built-in effects in most keyboards/synths. I do have some outboard processors, but it's a tough sell for me to buy a new board with zero effects of any kind because I'd be gigging it, and no built-in effects means even more gear to haul than just an additional keyboard (the new Moog Muse at least has a nice delay). Honestly, a good EQ wouldn't hurt, as it really needs some more beef in the low-mids IMO. It just sounds a little flat - there was an Oberheim TEO-5 up above it that I could A/B test with - and while that's not truly an apples-to-apples comparison, the TEO-5 sounded way better, even on similar patches.

 

A few other things I noticed, and I'm guessing part of it's just my lack of familiarity with the original OBXA - it's lowest-note priority for monophonic patches, which threw me off a bit as I'm used to the opposite on pretty much all my other gear. The other thing is that notes would randomly hang when switching patches...I don't mind a clean cutoff, but it seems to be a midi note hang issue. Kind of annoying, but it could just be something I've gotten overly accustomed to with my other gear.

 

For that price, you can afford to add an Eventide H9 Max ($599), and then you got an extremely powerful ridiculously amazing sounding effect processor to your Uberheim...

 

[JoJoB3]

7 hours ago, J.F.N. said:

 

For that price, you can afford to add an Eventide H9 Max ($599), and then you got an extremely powerful ridiculously amazing sounding effect processor to your Uberheim...

 

And I don't know any serious players that do not push sweet analogs thru outboard.

shameless plug because the small company is that killer: I highly suggest trying Meris outboard products among the rest.  
Hey I like Eventide but all I hear from Ev owners is that their gear needs repair...again and again.  Overpriced as well.

[J.F.N.]

6 minutes ago, JoJoB3 said:

And I don't know any serious players that do not push sweet analogs thru outboard.

shameless plug because the small company is that killer: I highly suggest trying Meris outboard products among the rest.  
Hey I like Eventide but all I hear from Ev owners is that their gear needs repair...again and again.  Overpriced as well.

 

Any ol' outboard will do...

 

[CyberGene]

Onboard FX are much easier to use, you can store their settings with the patch, you don’t have to connect cables, no additional space is taken, and you can modulate FX parameters from the mod matrix.

 

Lack of onboard FX is a total dealbreaker for me. 

[HammondDave]

23 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Onboard FX are much easier to use, you can store their settings with the patch, you don’t have to connect cables, no additional space is taken, and you can modulate FX parameters from the mod matrix.

 

Lack of onboard FX is a total dealbreaker for me. 

I must concur.  Saves wall wart space too. 

[JoJoB3]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Onboard FX are much easier to use, you can store their settings with the patch, you don’t have to connect cables, no additional space is taken, and you can modulate FX parameters from the mod matrix.

 

Lack of onboard FX is a total dealbreaker for me. 

Storing settings has it's place but is this really the 'now you don't have to' forum?  Of course you don't 'have to'. You also don't have to care about or play music professionally.

Most of the humans you and other players refer to incessantly, write about, reflect on, did/do it though (all that work, all that lifting, all those connections, all that time and care). When's the last time someone wrote a chapter about the artist who 'did something with a vst on a daw'?  How about even a social media review (outside of said products fb group that is)? "Onboard fx are easier".  Sure but that doesn't mean they sound that great or lead to creativity the same way. Most onboard are tacked on 'meh' overall imo (for many companies, an abused route to better sell their wares).  Sure, nice to have on hand for that casual gig and light load but 'meh' in comparison to those who care about their works to print.

Example: recently I've been applauding the Roland VR series but that's in regard to a schlep-saving, tool/product to get these 'types of jobs' done (without having to overpay for RED). It's likely not the board a talented and creative artist will/should turn to in the studio (like say a real B3/leslie, ac piano, rhodes/wurly, vintage or new analog synths, etc.  There's a reason these are staples. You can do a ton with them as is).

Put another way, iPads are NOT rock n roll, nor do they jazz. They often rehearsal, bar/cover gig, and wedding.

[David Emm]

I don't think the lack of effects is a deal-breaker. From my first synth until onboard effects became a serious thing, I went through a series of pedals, half-racks and finally, the All-Father, the Roland RSP-550, which gave me an early glimpse of Valhalla. 39 killer algorithms and a 44.1 sampling rate make it golden, even now. They can be had for a few hundred bucks on Reverb. On the other end, ZOOM pedals are the budget tools to beat, with a surprisingly clean sound.

 

Its easy to become a bit spoiled by omni-convenience, but I found my adventures in Effects Land to be worth the small hassles. I came to see that pedal on the side as a filter expander rather than a kluge. I PLAYED those suckers live. It was largely great, even though I occasionally slipped up and created a Mellotron Glurp. 🙄

[CrossRhodes]

Man, I can't imagine a world in which I was limited to only synths with on board effects or where I didn't get to experience the immense joy of accidental discovery that happens while experimenting with different effects pedals. I am a bit of an effects pedal junkie though so maybe that's just my disease talking. 😜

[ProfD]

Totally unexpected but I was able to lay hands on the UB-Xa today. It feels solidly built. Sounds like a decent poly synth too.

 

Then, I walked over to the OB-X8 in the same room. Majestic.

 

There's definitely a sonic difference between the reissued OB-X8 and the copy. 

 

The $2,500 price difference lies between the end user and their wallet. 

 

Price-wise, the UB-Xa could possibly give the smaller footprint and polyphony Take 5 and TEO-5 a run for the money. 

 

It's great that these tools are available at different price points. The barrier to entry has been lowered.😎

[CyberGene]

3 hours ago, CrossRhodes said:

Man, I can't imagine a world in which I was limited to only synths with on board effects

Those effects can always be switched off. Just saying 😉 Or is the mere presence of them annoying?

[CrossRhodes]

1 hour ago, CyberGene said:

Those effects can always be switched off. Just saying 😉 Or is the mere presence of them annoying?

 

Apologies if my comment was unclear. You said no effects was a deal breaker but that eliminates so many forms of analog synthesis available today. I cannot imagine a world in which I would turn away from a killer synth simply because it didn’t have some built in effects as I really enjoy incorporating effects pedals and DAW effects into my workflow as well. I’m not in a band though so I get how people outside of the studio may need instant recall of effects with their patches. I’m just addicted to effects boxes and switches and buttons and knobs and cables and tape and tubes and all of the chaos that can spark inspiration. It’s a problem lol. 

[HammondDave]

6 hours ago, CrossRhodes said:

 

Apologies if my comment was unclear. You said no effects was a deal breaker but that eliminates so many forms of analog synthesis available today. I cannot imagine a world in which I would turn away from a killer synth simply because it didn’t have some built in effects as I really enjoy incorporating effects pedals and DAW effects into my workflow as well. I’m not in a band though so I get how people outside of the studio may need instant recall of effects with their patches. I’m just addicted to effects boxes and switches and buttons and knobs and cables and tape and tubes and all of the chaos that can spark inspiration. It’s a problem lol. 

I look at all my guitar players’ pedal boards and think… “Glad I don’t have to do that!”  It’s even more humorous when a mysterious hum occurs and they frantically unplug and plug in devices to find out where the culprit is.

[Stokely]

I've kinda come around to the other point of view (somewhat) on onboard effects.  I was pretty much a "must have fx" person.   

For home studio use, I often turn off the reverb in VSTs because I want less different reverbs happening during a mix.  Same to a lesser extent with delays.  As always, it depends on how much the effect actually makes the patch.

For live, we've all played at places that had too much reverb baked in.  Recently for me this was a ballroom at a convention center, even conversation was amped up by this room.  It was awful.   When you have reverb levels saved with each patch, and no master on/off or level for them,  then it's pretty much impossible to say "hmm, I don't need reverb in this place, I need less if that were possible!".    I've found I use very little reverb live most of the time, granted we play standard cover rock stuff and not ambient music or some other genre where you'd expect big ol verbs.

Having a pedal/outboard unit has the big advantage of just being able to turn down the effects in one spot, and ideally just once, if you need to for a venue.  I wish to hell our guitarist would keep this in mind....every time he struggles with "mud in his monitor mix" I strongly suspect that it's the echo on his guitar patches.   I've mentioned my opinion on this, fixing it is up to him and I'm not going to bug him about it