Is there a list of common organ drawbar settings for common songs?

[kpl1228]

5 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

I read the OP carefully. To my eye, this was a guy stopping on the corner and asking if anyone here knew where he could buy hot dogs. We looked like a bunch of guys who know hot dogs.

OP here: It is exactly this. Good analogy here.

I remember running into, decades ago, my undergrad English professor, sitting at a bar with some friends. I had just won an essay award, and I had her to largely thank for it. She had talked me up to her department as a bright spark, she was the main impetus behind my essay submission for the award, and she was crucial in helping me with fine-tuning and the structure of the thing. I was young, raw, and had a bunch of questions about it all. I approached her to thank her for her help for the award I had received days earlier, and she was hammered, bitter, mad that I had asked about it all, and couldn't be bothered with me. I kind of said thanks and slunk away, my interest in writing now greatly minimized. It was a drunken moment, sure, and I realized that, but it was enough to put me off asking any more questions in her class, and it was also enough to take it personally and kill the fire i had for writing. I then channeled writing towards papers in my other college subjects, never to advance into other English classes, because young 20 year old me remembered the slight.

Yes, I've grown thicker skin since then, but as a now-30 year veteran high school social studies teacher, I am very careful to make sure that all questions are welcomed, and I know I've put more than one bright spark off by not showing them all of the options and learning approaches at hand, not just the ones I deem acceptable. I know my field, my subject, my students, and my profession, but I also know I screw up from time to time in limiting or stymieing creativity. And while I would never give away an easy answer, if a student came to me asking how I get something (aka a preset), I'd certainly all but give them the keys to the kingdom. They're showing interest, they sought me out, and I'm not going to be a self-righteous gatekeeper about it. 

I've laid off of my post for several days, not because I'm enjoying the slugfest (I'm not), but because I'm collecting data and info for the question I asked. This group is not only a welcome break from the high school teenage drama I deal with on a daily basis (or is it?), it's also been very informative and a tremendous help.

668800000 is a favorite. People have pointed it out to me, and even private messaged me with tips and hints. I got that from noodling and experimenting, yes, but also from the specific input of several of you.

However, when I have more questions about me and the organ, I'll consider what I ask carefully and, sadly, now with a tiny bit of apprehension. I've learned.

I know it's the internet, and it's not face-to-face, but I couldn't imagine in person not being 100% forthcoming to any newbie that had a question about something they were interested in. Why should this forum be different in that regard than in-person? In short, it shouldn't be.

But I'm still excited, still happy with the instrument and this forum. Thanks, everyone. ALL of you. This site is appreciated.

 

[SMcD]

This thread has turned into quite the 800000888, if you get my drift.

[Melving]

Soo..  Chiming in from the largely organ naive camp, I think this is a thread that I didn't know I needed.  Thanks to all...

[Tom Williams]

21 hours ago, SMcD said:

This thread has turned into quite the 800000888, if you get my drift.

I don't get it, unless you mean "inverse of a good thing."

[mate stubb]

2 hours ago, Tom Williams said:

I don't get it, unless you mean "inverse of a good thing."

 

That drawbar setting, either 800000888 or 800008888, is called the "squabble"setting after a style of block chord playing which often uses this setting, popularized by Erroll Garner.

 

 

[timwat]

I was this many years old when I learned that for the first time.

[CEB]

Squabbling can hurt if you aren't careful at first.  The technique calls for curling the first knuckles so you can chromatically glissando CHORDS up and down from white to black (visa versa) keys.  I consider squabble to be the technique and not the registration but I'm a dogmatic crazy guy from the internet who doesn't know anything.

 

800000888 ish and 800008888 ish are useful registration shapes I use them in blues gigs quite a bit.  They cut. There was a cool video online of me doing a solo with this registration in Spanish Moon but Pete took them down.  You would have to settle for these guy doing it instead without the large egregious organ solo.  This band plays with taste.

 

  

[jazzpiano88]

Here’s a masterful squabbling tutorial.   Tony’s demonstration of the squabbling roll is killer.  
This technique is taking the organ and making it a new instrument.  
 

Tony describes how he learned to play it listening to Vinyl.    A point in Steve’s favor. 
 

 

[CEB]

Nice video. There is a lot there including how he uses his ears and thinks of registrations as shapes and not numbers.  

[jazzpiano88]

Yeah, he is incredible.  I also love how much he devotes to teaching and seems like a super nice guy!

[MathOfInsects]

Reh-VERB. Sim-uh-late.

 

That was cool. Thanks for posting. 

[jazzpiano88]

He is deceptively such a master.  
 

In his instructional videos he starts out teaching the blues by showing us a simple pentatonic scale C  Eb  F  F#  G  Bb. C.  And you’re thinking ok, this is what it’s gonna be, and before you know it he’s playing these tastiest improv licks you’ve ever heard.  
 

I wish I had those chord shapes he does on the lower manual under my fingers like he does. However his hand positioning looks painful!   I love his story of how Jimmy Smith called him on the phone when he was learning.   “Tony! Jimmy Smith’s on the Phone”.  

[CyberGene]

Correct me if I’m wrong, since I know zero about organs, but unlike real Hammond organs, every Mojo will sound like every other Mojo with the same drawbars and settings, no? Then why would it be so bad to ask for ready drawbar recipes for common songs? I would’ve done the same. 

[stoken6]

5 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

However his hand positioning looks painful!

Didn't Tony suffer from a childhood disease ( I want to say polio)? I'll give him a pass on technique in that case.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Lou Gehrig Charles]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Then why would it be so bad to ask for ready drawbar recipes for common songs? I would’ve done the same. 

Apparently it is a faux pas of the highest order.

[Threadslayer]

8 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

He is deceptively such a master.

He is awesome. I could feel what he was saying in my head if that makes any sense. It was as though I could read his mind even though he was verbalizing it.

[Old No7]

7 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, since I know zero about organs, but unlike real Hammond organs, every Mojo will sound like every other Mojo with the same drawbars and settings, no?

 

No, not correct -- as the WiFi editor of the Mojo lets you customize the Hammond to your liking... A, B or C model, model year, crosstalk, leakage, even setting up custom tonewheel sets, Leslie 145 or 147 or other, and a whole bunch more settings too.  The speakers they're played through and EQ settings will also impact the sound.

 

Old No7

[MathOfInsects]

[drawback]

No kidding. 

[Stokely]

I've found sometimes that whatever the original settings are, don't always work in a band setting.  Their band is different than mine, my "b3 organ" is going to be some kind of clone and they all sound different.   If it's a studio recording, the mix plays a big part too.  All too often, the organ is mixed fairly low so if I used their setting I'm liable to be a little too bright and loud in the band (Anyway you want it comes to mind,granted I don't have to have drawbars at 8 if I wanted to match their mix.)   I will look up the settings for "signature" songs--Whiter Shade of Pale for instance has a pretty distinctive sound--but other than that I don't really bother.

Nobody other than me will ever notice or care if my settings aren't authentic, and I certainly don't care so that's that    I just shoot for a part that sounds good in the band and worry more about my playing and singing.
 

[Threadslayer]

Gotta say that if Tony Monaco had given that squabble clinic on the Mojo alone, it would have held its own, but doing the A/B comparison, the B3 kicked the Mojo's ass.

[MathOfInsects]

39 minutes ago, Threadslayer said:

Gotta say that if Tony Monaco had given that squabble clinic on the Mojo alone, it would have held its own, but doing the A/B comparison, the B3 kicked the Mojo's ass.

Yeah, that leslie sim-uh-lation sounded almost comical after hearing the B3. I literally stopped the vid and replayed and said the words “What the fuck?”

[AnotherScott]

 

2 hours ago, Old No7 said:

9 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Correct me if I’m wrong, since I know zero about organs, but unlike real Hammond organs, every Mojo will sound like every other Mojo with the same drawbars and settings, no?

 

No, not correct -- as the WiFi editor of the Mojo lets you customize the Hammond to your liking... A, B or C model, model year, crosstalk, leakage, even setting up custom tonewheel sets, Leslie 145 or 147 or other, and a whole bunch more settings too.  The speakers they're played through and EQ settings will also impact the sound.

 

All true. But still, if the Hammond setting used on a recording was 888 000 000, the sound that will come closest to that on any clone is going to be 888 000 000 or something very close to it. It at least tells you, for example, not to pull out any of the other drawbars, and that the first three should be pulled out quite substantially, even if the exact balance may vary a bit if you're trying to match how a particular organ sounded with that setting. And you can easily find it will never sound as close to the original as you'd like, but you at least know that you've gotten in the ballpark of about as close to your target sound as you'll be able to get using the drawbars of your clone (without perhaps going into some of those deeper settings you've alluded to, if your clone has them).

[kpl1228]

17 hours ago, CEB said:

Squabbling can hurt if you aren't careful at first.  The technique calls for curling the first knuckles so you can chromatically glissando CHORDS up and down from white to black (visa versa) keys.  I consider squabble to be the technique and not the registration but I'm a dogmatic crazy guy from the internet who doesn't know anything.

 

800000888 ish and 800008888 ish are useful registration shapes I use them in blues gigs quite a bit.  They cut. There was a cool video online of me doing a solo with this registration in Spanish Moon but Pete took them down.  You would have to settle for these guy doing it instead without the large egregious organ solo.  This band plays with taste.

 

  

OP here....

Cool sounds, good info.....and the opposite of the reliance on the lower drawbars so many have discussed here. Much to learn, much to learn......

Thanks hot dog guys

[CEB]

In general I don’t think people shove in the 16’ and 5 1/3’ enough.   Especially the 16’.   I’ve gotten tons of mileage with flutey things on the top manual like 008000000 and 000008000. 

Stuff like like 008600000 ish I use a lot.    

[xKnuckles]

On 10/17/2023 at 9:45 AM, Dockeys said:

There are as many lists as there are drawbar combinations:
 

https://keyboardservice.com/Drawbars.asp

https://thegospeluniversity.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/GU-Drawbars-EBOOK.pdf
https://archive.org/details/CreatingBeautifulToneColorsWithTheHarmonicDrawbarsOfTheHammondOrgan

http://hammondentusiasterne.dk/?page_id=809

 

ive attached an excel sheet of some classic settings as well. 

This is only the tip of the iceberg I’m afraid. Presets are great for getting started and studying the sounds, but like Moe said one you look past that and delve into the operating of the drawbars it becomes more interesting. Best of luck. 

Drawbar Settings.xlsx 54.82 kB · 38 downloads

This is brilliant!! Thanks!!

[stoken6]

On 10/25/2023 at 6:51 PM, CEB said:

In general I don’t think people shove in the 16’ and 5 1/3’ enough.   Especially the 16’.   I’ve gotten tons of mileage with flutey things on the top manual like 008000000 and 000008000. 

I've learned this from this forum. Probably from you Ed?

 

Cheers, Mike

[Outkaster]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:55 PM, matted stump said:

To put Steve's point in perspective: I think some of us older players feel a bit like we are the last generation of organists, and it becomes our duty to try to pass on what we have learned by encouraging newer players to spend a bit of time at it. With the instrument disappearing from pop and other modern music, players might use organ only occasionally. 

 

I have great love for Hammond and it is my preferred instrument. I mourn its decline. Thank goodness for gospel!

That's where the market is now for sales, not the rock or jazz bands for the most part. 

[Baggypants]

Checkout the first reply on this thread from 13 years ago 😂

 

[jazzpiano88]

6 hours ago, Baggypants said:

Checkout the first reply on this thread from 13 years ago 😂

 

Now that is almost unbelievable!!!  Perry Mason sweeps in at the last minute and even ensnares a co conspirator!
 

i wonder if Steve used the same shotgun on the porch for this thread as that 13 year old thread?

I’ll give an A++ for consistency!!  Unbelievable!!!