Rumors: Yamaha Montage successor

[ElmerJFudd]

I’m curious what the Montage M 88 key with poly AT feels like for pianists.  Of course - that’s why the CP/YC exists, where Montage is in fact definitely more of a synthesizer.  

[Redknife]

DJ: I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the m8x should you follow through since you are a Montage and Kronos user. I have a Kronos 2 and have been thinking about one last hoorah of studio revision: selling Kronos and Moog, picking up the m8x. Looking for something fresh. It's hard for me to find holes in the Kronos sound pallet but sometimes different is good. So far, I like the m8x control interface, PAT, the particulars of the AN-X, and overall sound characteristics. Pianos are important to me. Ever since I sold my SY77 I've missed the Yamaha sound. Maybe it's time to get in the Y game again. Given the power of computer/iPad sound generation it can be tough to argue the need for a flagship controller, but the integration of sounds and controls on a workstation is a big differentiator for me. For now, I'm taking all the info in and waiting on member hands-on reports! Maybe a Montage M will show up on the floor stock of the local Guitar Center (low expectation).

I lack clarity on how MIDI control has changed montage:M8X. I also don't know how to view the utility of the user sample memory. Are there Yamaha/aftermarket "user samples" to load (other than generating home grown samples and transferring to user sample memory)? I also don't know the functions available for sample management for issues such as multi-sample options although in truth I'll likely never do that.

26 minutes ago, DeltaJockey said:

I've been quietly following the discussions from the beginning, without contributing to speculation, even though I know synth hardware from the beginnings in the 70's, I am totally clueless when it comes to speculation on marketing strategies for keyboard companies. I've had an original Montage8 from near the beginning, and have gone in and out of passion for it.

The things I like about it are not the same as most people, and I have used it as a master studio controller for much of the time, because of its high quality audio interface and onboard 4 channel analog outs which I use for 4 channel surround monitors. I have on the whole liked the BHE action, but not above some of my other actions, particularly compared to the NumaX GT action.  I don't use the organ and EP patches at all, so drawbars don't enter into my calculation. The one thing in particular that really irked me about the Montage, was the fact that I couldn't get the sliders to control external vst parameters, only the rotary encoders.

 

...Enter the MontageM8x

 

I was not intending to upgrade anytime soon, but the specs and discussions have me following with interest, particularly the new action, which is always a moth to light for me

The incorporation of the hybrid tech, and the ability for additional functionality with firmware upgrades, along with less physical and wear-outable sensors also had me excited.

The comments about it being lighter than previous actions got me listening, and with hope I thought it may be a bit more like the Numa X GT in this regard.

I'm not in a position unfortunately to go traveling to try it out for real, but along with interest in many of the upgraded and added features, already having my gun locked and loaded, the little GAS voice which sits on my right shoulder whispering in my ear, went and pulled the trigger before I had a chance to stop it :).

 

Of course I'm excited about the increased level of sound generation, ANx and control/display improvements, and will be pouring over every youtube video I have time to watch.

 

I now have a perfectly new condition Montage8 to sell, and rather cheap I suspect! I expect the M8x to turn up hopefully by the end of the coming week.

If no one else has given first hand opinions, I will make some comments when I get it from a pianists point of view.

 

The speculation on fan noise is not an issue for me, as I've owned a Kronos for many years, with zero concerns over it's fan noise, and life, which is about 8 years of use, and no wear or dust on the fan. Non issue! The Montage has a 5 year warranty, before I'd even have to consider the burden of this.

 

I'm not normally a first adopter, and hope that there aren't any gotchas which will emerge in the next few months from people roadtesting them.

I see folks baulking at the price in USD and UK pounds etc. Spare a thought for us in OZ with a quite terrible exchange rate at the moment.

The Yamaha recommended price is $7200AUD! Street price seems to be around $6400, and there seems to be a promotional price at the moment of $5750, so not wanting to spend more later, I grit my teeth and went for it. It's not a sign of wealth, it's indicative of the only hobby I spend my money on

 

So, just a few of my ramblings, take them with salt, or whatever pinch of spice takes your fancy!

 

 

 

s). 

[DeltaJockey]

46 minutes ago, Redknife said:

DJ: I'm interested to hear your thoughts on the m8x should you follow through since you are a Montage and Kronos user. I have a Kronos 2 and have been thinking about one last hoorah of studio revision: selling Kronos and Moog, picking up the m8x. Looking for something fresh. It's hard for me to find holes in the Kronos sound pallet but sometimes different is good. So far, I like the m8x control interface, PAT, the particulars of the AN-X, and overall sound characteristics. Pianos are important to me. Ever since I sold my SY77 I've missed the Yamaha sound. Maybe it's time to get in the Y game again. Given the power of computer/iPad sound generation it can be tough to argue the need for a flagship controller, but the integration of sounds and controls on a workstation is a big differentiator for me. For now, I'm taking all the info in and waiting on member hands-on reports! Maybe a Montage M will show up on the floor stock of the local Guitar Center (low expectation).

I lack clarity on how MIDI control has changed montage:M8X. I also don't know how to view the utility of the user sample memory. Are there Yamaha/aftermarket "user samples" to load (other than generating home grown samples and transferring to user sample memory)? I also don't know the functions available for sample management for issues such as multi-sample options although in truth I'll likely never do that.

s). 

I definitely have more gear than I need, but I do have the right amount of gear that I want! I too have always worked on the premise of selling off old gear to afford new stuff. Trouble is, it's getting harder to sell things in the current climate of affairs. I've had several Kronos over the years, and the earliest I had was a KronosX 88. I think the fan issue was a bit more problematic in the earlier versions, but my current Kronos2 73, has never been an issue.

 

I'm not a heavy user of AT, but I like it there when the need arises.

I used to have  a Hydrasynth, and rarely used the PAT. But I think that was more to do the the rest of the synth than the PAT. The Montage may be different. One thing that did occur to me, which I haven't checked yet, is while the Montage onboard performances programmed for PAT fully utilizes this, as is its ability to TX externally, whether my vst's will respond to PAT. I like having AT particularly for Zebra and Omnisphere, but will the patches only respond to channel AT?

 

Other than the onboard sound design etc, my use case is going to also be dominated by using it as a master controller with Logic. I took note in the Yamaha advertising that it is more refined at DAW control now, and specifically mentions most of the mainstream DAWs. I'm not a Cubase user nowadays, but they mention Logic, so I assume it will automatically map the controls appropriately when selected.

 

It doesn't surprise me that Yamaha have upped the focus on M8x action also to the piano player, as I get the impression that there are so many musicians out there that value the piano experience, even on synths. The conversations have become more frequent over the years between people, and it seems to be what a lot of folk want, me included.

And it sounds like the new action technology allows for the piano experience while keeping the action nimble for EP, organ and synth. That seems to be the rationale for Studiologic on the NumaX GT too. And in my opinion, it works!

 

The Montage has always had aftermarket performances on offer from many vendors. I expect the method of loading third party libraries hasn't changed, though the interface needs a refresh When I bought my Montage8, it came with a licence for a specific Montage version of SampleRobot. I have some of my own libraries on Montage of favorite programs from my Kronos. Unlike the the Kronos, multisample management on Montage/MODX if I recall, is only done on computer based apps like Samplerobot, you then export it to a Montage/MODX library/performance file. I'm not a guru on this stuff though.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

I’m curious what the Montage M 88 key with poly AT feels like for pianists.  Of course - that’s why the CP/YC exists, where Montage is in fact definitely more of a synthesizer.  

That interests me as well. Subsequent to the CP1/CP5, all the Yamaha hammer actions feel a bit slow and/or heavy to me. I do like the CP88/YC88 best of current Yamahas (up until now), but even they feel too heavy to me at the lower registers. So I'm eager to try out the M88 as well... not that I"ll actually ever buy a board that heavy (which is also why even the CP5 was never under serious consideration).

 

1 hour ago, Redknife said:

I lack clarity on how MIDI control has changed montage:M8X.

 

Basically, now any of the 16 parts can respond to any MIDI channel you want. Before, typically Parts 1-16 would only each receive on channels 1-16 respectively... a 1:1 correspondence that you could not alter, which could be limiting.

[DmitryKo]

23 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

One thing that did occur to me, which I haven't checked yet, is while the Montage onboard performances programmed for PAT fully utilizes this, as is its ability to TX externally, whether my vst's will respond to PAT. I like having AT particularly for Zebra and Omnisphere, but will the patches only respond to channel AT?

 

I'd think software instuments that support MPE should also support polyphonic pressure (aka polyphonic aftertouch), or at least they could be easily updated to support PAT, since MPE per-note controller messages are essentially based on the same idea (which was further expanded in MIDI 2.0 UMP protocol).

 

ROLI has a list of apps and synths that support MPE,

 

MPE MIDI Polyphonic Expression ROLI Compatible apps synths : ROLI Support

https://support.roli.com/support/solutions/articles/36000037202-compatible-synths-daws-and-instruments

 

 

I wouldn't expect existing patches to be automatically enabled to respond to per-note controllers - you will have to either edit them yourself to enable per-note modulation sources, or wait for an update from the manufacturer. Or just revert the keyboard to sending channel aftertouch for the time being.

 

Of course your sequencer/DAW, VSTi host, and USB-MIDI drivers should also support MPE and PAT. Getting the entire ecosystem to support per-note controls would take some time, if you consider that note velocity has been the only per-note message in actual use for the last three decades, while key-off velocity and polyphonic key pressure were rarely supported (if at all), and other widely used controllers like pitchbend, modulation, sustain, volume, pan, effect levels etc. are per-channel messages. 

 

Yamaha synthesizers for example had no support for polyphonic key pressure since at least early 1990s, so they would neither receive and record nor transmit these messages.

 

 

FYI there were just over a dozen keyboards that implemented PAT throughout the entire history of MIDI - I believe these are Ensoniq SQ-80, VFX, SD-1, TS-10, ASR-10, Yamaha CS80, GS1, DX1, Sequential Curcuits Prophet T8, ARP/Rhodes Chroma, and Synclavier VPK, which were all relased in early to mid 1980s, though there were also a few MIDI controller keyboards from Roland, Kurzweil, Elka, GEM, and Infinite Response. 

 

Then it then took 30+ years for a new generation of flagship keyboards like ASM HydraSynth and Waldorf Iridium - and most recently Waldorf Quantum Mk2, Native Instruments Kontrol S Mk.3, Korg Keystage 61, and Montage M8x - to support it again (though there are also two-ocave mini-key controllers/synths like Arturia Microfreak and CME Xkey, and silicone 'toy key' controllers like ROLI Seaboard and Keith McMillen QuNexus).

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/synthesizers/comments/l1bolo/lets_create_a_complete_list_of_keyboards_with/

 

 

 

 

 

[linwood]

Mine is out for delivery today. Woohoo!

 

[zephonic]

2 hours ago, linwood said:

Mine is out for delivery today. Woohoo!

 

Tell us all!

[Fleer]

Okay, I’m dead, even the M8x has a fan. 

[Jose EB5AGV]

12 hours ago, Fleer said:

Okay, I’m dead, even the M8x has a fan. 

 

In some cases it happens that old models have something which is better than the replacements. I guess this is one of those things. Which may be not important for most people, but in your case is a deal stopper 🫤

[AnotherScott]

7 minutes ago, Jose EB5AGV said:

In some cases it happens that old models have something which is better than the replacements.

It happens quite a lot. People were upset when the Montage lost the sequencing functions of its Motif predecessor (though its MIDI channel flexibility was just restored with the M), and later Motifs lost the hardware expansion slots of the earlier ones. The Nautilus lost the sliders--and originally, the aftertouch--of its Kronos predecessor. The Korg M50 replaced the TR... and it lost the sample memory expansion slot, assignable outs, and aftertouch, ouch! Nords always seem to have trade-offs between one generation and their next. The Stage 3 had lots of advantages over the Stage 2, but lost pending load, bank buttons, and ringed endless encoders for  synth and fx functions. And so it goes...

[DmitryKo]

It's pretty obvious that the Yamaha Montage M8x has a fan, actually a lot of fans, and though the Montage M7 and M6 have less fans, there are still many fans, and I'm a fan too. Now can all fans stop venting about fans? It kills all the fun.

[Docbop]

The Master plays the Montage M

 

 

 

[pjd]

1 hour ago, DmitryKo said:

Now can all fans stop venting about fans? It kills all the fun.

 

It's pretty hard on the vibe(s), too. 😃

 

Thanks for the Greg Phillinganes videos. Been thinking about a meditation piece like "Lush Layers" and will be studying that one! Love his work!

 

-- pj

 

[timwat]

I was just served up the Lush Layers vid this morning...and I thought:

 

1) Greg is, as always, incredible with his musical choices, and

2) What, of what I'm hearing, couldn't have been done on the original Montage...or ever a MODX?

[CyberGene]

17 minutes ago, timwat said:

What, of what I'm hearing, couldn't have been done on the original Montage...or ever a MODX?

I also thought the same. BTW, one of the reasons might be that as far as I can see Greg is not using aftertouch at all, let alone poly AT, I guess he’s too used to the good old “push a slider / mod wheel” thing. With that in mind, indeed, all could’ve been done on any workstation from the last 20 years. 
 

And he’s giant, no two opinions!

[ElmerJFudd]

15 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I also thought the same. BTW, one of the reasons might be that as far as I can see Greg is not using aftertouch at all, let alone poly AT, I guess he’s too used to the good old “push a slider / mod wheel” thing. With that in mind, indeed, all could’ve been done on any workstation from the last 20 years. 
 

And he’s giant, no two opinions!

There’s also a ribbon controller.  Albeit a small one. 

[GovernorSilver]

Yamaha should sponsor a contest for young musos - the winner gets a Montage M8X

 

Then we can sit back and watch the young muso innovate on the M8X, showing us what can only be done on this keyboard and nothing else in production

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, timwat said:

2) What, of what I'm hearing, couldn't have been done on the original Montage...or ever a MODX?

This. Phillinganes would sound amazing on a beat-up upright, or a Bontempi.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Charleston]

2 hours ago, GovernorSilver said:

Yamaha should sponsor a contest for young musos - the winner gets a Montage M8X

 

Then we can sit back and watch the young muso innovate on the M8X, showing us what can only be done on this keyboard and nothing else in production

Why "young"? I don't get it.

What age range is "young" to you?

 

[GovernorSilver]

38 minutes ago, Charleston said:

Why "young"? I don't get it.

What age range is "young" to you?

 

 

My thinking was influenced by classical piano competitions, the Thelonius Monk International Competition, etc. which generally impose an age limit of around 30-32 years.  I have however heard of at least one that does not have an age limit.

 

But really, I just like seeing the eyes of some kid or young adult lighting up when they win a prize they normally can't afford.

 

Don't mind me though - just an idea that was thrown out there, not to be taken seriously (unless you, YAMAHA, are reading).   

 

[Docbop]

On a Patreon post I ask Nick Semrad Yamaha endorser about doing sound design for the new Yamaha Montage M.   He said he's worked on it a long time, but it's very different because the physical board was still being worked on.   Nick said Yamaha a software for working on the board, but at a much lower level than the controls will be on the board  He equated to programing in mathematics and said it was really educational see all these other parameters involved with generating the sound.    Be cool to see what that development software Yamaha uses looks like. 

[Fleer]

9 hours ago, DmitryKo said:

It's pretty obvious that the Yamaha Montage M8x has a fan, actually a lot of fans, and though the Montage M7 and M6 have less fans, there are still many fans, and I'm a fan too. Now can all fans stop venting about fans? 

or get a Fan

tom

[Jose EB5AGV]

14 hours ago, Docbop said:

The Master plays the Montage M

 

 

 

 

He really sounds fan-tastic! 😬

 

It is a pity the fan kills the fun for some 😆

 

OK, enough is enough, sorry 🙏🏻

[ProfD]

12 hours ago, Docbop said:

Nick said Yamaha a software for working on the board...equated to programing in mathematics and said it was really educational see all these other parameters involved with generating the sound. 

For that reason, I don't believe ROMpler/workstation synths really appeal to synth programmers and sound designers.

 

Most performing  musicians and music producers buy these KBs for the onboard sounds. They might tweak a sound but they're not using this type of KB to create sounds from scratch. 

 

I've laid hands on the Montage M. Getting beyond that it looks like a Christmas tree lit up, the build quality is better than a MODX+ but has similar touches. GEX key action feels  slightly better than BHE. The ANX-1 is cool for some semblance of sound programming. Overall, same sounds. No surprises there.😎

[DmitryKo]

But those prices... holy cow, 4200 € to preorder the Yamaha Montage M7 at the few European dealers that list them.

 

There's also this new direct sales model, where customers sign directly with Yamaha Europe, and your local dealer only acts as a sales agent who drop ships the package fron Yamaha's warehoude to your door.

 

Obviously Thomann called it quits and won't even stock the Montage M.

 

Montage M availability in EU? 

https://yamahamusicians.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=20125

 

 

[Keyboardplayer]

Have you noticed it seems practically all the online demos of the Montage M feature the M8x i.e., the only one with Poly AT.  Yamaha probably realizes its huge blunder, and they're pushing the M8x almost exclusively, since the M6/M7 lack the very feature that every synth keyboard player on the planet would benefit mostly from and choose to purchase if they had polyphonic aftertouch like big brother M8x. Let's face it, most seasoned synth keyboard players don't buy synths with 88-keys. Musicians who are mainly pianists at heart buy 88-key hammer-action keyboards because, well, they are pianists first and foremost. 💡

 

Because of Yamaha's marketing decision, they've basically distanced themselves from the very people who would actually benefit the most from the M6/M7 if Yamaha had given them Poly AT. To avoid embarrassment, Yamaha has seemingly decided to put the M6/M7 on the back burner and hope people buy the overweight, gut-busting M8x with Poly AT that Pianists will probably rarely, if ever, use. The M6/M7 remind me of two fingers that Yamaha poked in the eyes of every synth keyboard enthusiast on the planet. Take that, you lousy synth aficionados. 👀 💥 Buy our most expensive, gut-busting 88-key hammer-action M8x with poly AT or see you in 7 more years when we finally come to our senses, hopefully. You can't make this stuff up, folks. Yamaha could have raked in tons of extra cash in my opinion if the M6/M7 had poly AT. I would have purchased an M7 most likely. As a refresher, in 7 long years, Yamaha couldn't produce a 61/76-key keybed versions with GEX technology? You're telling me they only had enough time for the gut-busting 88-key M8x before they launched? Something smells fishy. Look at other synths currently on the market with Poly AT. Most are either 49 or 61-keys, so hammer-action keys should not come into play as some have suggested as to why Yamaha decided to nix Poly AT on the M6/M7. Yamaha wants people to purchase the gut-busting 88-key M8x, since the most expensive items produce the most profit per each unit sold. 💡 Yamaha is probably trying to make up for the money they will likely lose on the M6/M7. Que será, será, I reckon. Thanks, Yammie. 😒      

[Docbop]

34 minutes ago, Keyboardplayer said:

Have you noticed it seems practically all the online demos of the Montage M feature the M8x i.e., the only one with Poly AT.  Yamaha probably realizes its huge blunder, and they're pushing the M8x almost exclusively, since the M6/M7 lack the very feature that every synth keyboard player on the planet would benefit mostly from and choose to purchase if they had polyphonic aftertouch like big brother M8x. Let's face it, most seasoned synth keyboard players don't buy synths with 88-keys. Musicians who are mainly pianists at heart buy 88-key hammer-action keyboards because, well, they are pianists first and foremost. 💡

 

Because of Yamaha's marketing decision, they've basically distanced themselves from the very people who would actually benefit the most from the M6/M7 if Yamaha had given them Poly AT. To avoid embarrassment, Yamaha has seemingly decided to put the M6/M7 on the back burner and hope people buy the overweight, gut-busting M8x with Poly AT that Pianists will probably rarely, if ever, use. The M6/M7 remind me of two fingers that Yamaha poked in the eyes of every synth keyboard enthusiast on the planet. Take that, you lousy synth aficionados. 👀 💥 Buy our most expensive, gut-busting 88-key hammer-action M8x with poly AT or see you in 7 more years when we finally come to our senses, hopefully. You can't make this stuff up, folks. Yamaha could have raked in tons of extra cash in my opinion if the M6/M7 had poly AT. I would have purchased an M7 most likely. As a refresher, in 7 long years, Yamaha couldn't produce a 61/76-key keybed versions with GEX technology? You're telling me they only had enough time for the gut-busting 88-key M8x before they launched? Something smells fishy. Look at other synths currently on the market with Poly AT. Most are either 49 or 61-keys, so hammer-action keys should not come into play as some have suggested as to why Yamaha decided to nix Poly AT on the M6/M7. Yamaha wants people to purchase the gut-busting 88-key M8x, since the most expensive items produce the most profit per each unit sold. 💡 Yamaha is probably trying to make up for the money they will likely lose on the M6/M7. Que será, será, I reckon. Thanks, Yammie. 😒      

 

I would disagree and say Yamaha Marketing see main group of Montage users are workstation buyers that do a lot of Media composing and sound design for film, TV, games.    The media composers are mainly 88-key players and use AT.   So I say Yamaha see a different demographic as the Montage buyer. 

[HammondDave]

41 minutes ago, Keyboardplayer said:

Have you noticed it seems practically all the online demos of the Montage M feature the M8x i.e., the only one with Poly AT.  Yamaha probably realizes its huge blunder, and they're pushing the M8x almost exclusively, since the M6/M7 lack the very feature that every synth keyboard player on the planet would benefit mostly from and choose to purchase if they had polyphonic aftertouch like big brother M8x. Let's face it, most seasoned synth keyboard players don't buy synths with 88-keys. Musicians who are mainly pianists at heart buy 88-key hammer-action keyboards because, well, they are pianists first and foremost. 💡

 

Because of Yamaha's marketing decision, they've basically distanced themselves from the very people who would actually benefit the most from the M6/M7 if Yamaha had given them Poly AT. To avoid embarrassment, Yamaha has seemingly decided to put the M6/M7 on the back burner and hope people buy the overweight, gut-busting M8x with Poly AT that Pianists will probably rarely, if ever, use. The M6/M7 remind me of two fingers that Yamaha poked in the eyes of every synth keyboard enthusiast on the planet. Take that, you lousy synth aficionados. 👀 💥 Buy our most expensive, gut-busting 88-key hammer-action M8x with poly AT or see you in 7 more years when we finally come to our senses, hopefully. You can't make this stuff up, folks. Yamaha could have raked in tons of extra cash in my opinion if the M6/M7 had poly AT. I would have purchased an M7 most likely. As a refresher, in 7 long years, Yamaha couldn't produce a 61/76-key keybed versions with GEX technology? You're telling me they only had enough time for the gut-busting 88-key M8x before they launched? Something smells fishy. Look at other synths currently on the market with Poly AT. Most are either 49 or 61-keys, so hammer-action keys should not come into play as some have suggested as to why Yamaha decided to nix Poly AT on the M6/M7. Yamaha wants people to purchase the gut-busting 88-key M8x, since the most expensive items produce the most profit per each unit sold. 💡 Yamaha is probably trying to make up for the money they will likely lose on the M6/M7. Que será, será, I reckon. Thanks, Yammie. 😒      

in my case its not “gut-busting”… its more like “testicular-explosive”. 
 

But seriously, it is strange to leave PAT off of the two true synth models. But nothing that Yamaha does really surprises me. 

[Paul Woodward]

Well, I personally like to keep my pianos (weighted playing) separate from my Synths and, for that reason alone, I lost interest in the new Montage. More interested in the Korg Keystage and what I can connect to it.

im sure they (Yamaha) won't lose any sleep, but I’m betting I am not the only one put off by that 88 note beast.

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Keyboardplayer said:

Yamaha probably realizes its huge blunder...As a refresher, in 7 long years, Yamaha couldn't produce a 61/76-key keybed versions with GEX technology? You're telling me they only had enough time for the gut-busting 88-key M8x before they launched? Something smells fishy. Look at other synths currently on the market with Poly AT. Most are either 49 or 61-keys, so hammer-action keys should not come into play as some have suggested as to why Yamaha decided to nix Poly AT on the M6/M7.

Yamaha's tech is different from what is on other company's boards, so saying that others have done it in small non-hammer boards is not a relevant argument in terms of what Yamaha could or could not have done, or done within whatever other constraints. And we don't know that the poly-AT was part of the plans as of 7 years ago, either. Just too many assumptions there!

 

Here's another interesting take on why it may be that, at least for now, PAT is only on the 8, from pjd, based on the tech that is actually implemented in the M8X:

https://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-m8x-key-notes/

 

In short, it's partially adapted from tech that exists in their high end digital pianos (i.e. AvantGrand). And it looks like it would have to be re-designed to work with Yamaha's non-hammer designs and/or Yamaha would have to change their non-hammer key designs. Hopefully that is something they are looking at for the future. But in the mean time, if for whatever reason they only had the tech currently available for the 8, isn't it better to only see it on the 8, if the alternative would have been to not introduce it on the 8 until/unless it were also available on the 6/7? Would we really have been better off that way?