Rumors: Yamaha Montage successor

[Mighty Motif Max]

Given how successful things like Korg Collection are, I think there's definitely a use for it. Not every genre is looking for a pristine concert grand or huge orchestral articulation libraries. I'm considering picking up the Triton plugin myself for some of my RnB stuff. The other big advantage is that a person can record their synth's patches for songs without needing to deal with audio interface noise and such. I'd love to have some of the MOTIF pads in software (and HALion isn't it).

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

On 10/27/2023 at 5:54 PM, AnotherScott said:

 

But they are generating a lot more buzz with it. They will probably sell more of them because it has this feature.

 

Personally, if you gave me a choice of a Montage M8 with or without pokyAT (at the same price), I'd take the one with. 😉

Of course.... Me too 😁

But what's the most difference that you'd pay is they weren't the same price?

[CyberGene]

Are there any sounds in the Montage that are better than the existing audio/FX plugins? It's probably convenient to have everything from pianos, to strings and synths in a single plugin but I doubt a serious producer would sing hallelujah to that and abandon all these great and popular plugins that are each better than their counterpart in the Montage. 

[AnotherScott]

2 hours ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

Of course.... Me too 😁

But what's the most difference that you'd pay is they weren't the same price?

It's hard to say without getting my hands on one and trying it myself. But if there were two versions of the M8x, with and without polyAT, I could imagine something like a $200 difference between the two being justifiable. But I suspect that the amount you're actually being charged for this feature is zero, which makes it quite a bargain. 🙂 I mean, based on what the 6/7/8 price difference had been on the Montage it's replacing ($500 jump from one to the next), I bet the price would have been the same with or without this feature. And there may indeed have been virtually no difference in what it costs them to manufacture, especially since, as has been discussed, they are repurposing some existing tech to implement it, i.e. they may indeed have found a way to add this feature without it adding to their manufacturing cost.

 

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Are there any sounds in the Montage that are better than the existing audio/FX plugins? It's probably convenient to have everything from pianos, to strings and synths in a single plugin but I doubt a serious producer would sing hallelujah to that and abandon all these great and popular plugins that are each better than their counterpart in the Montage. 

Of course "serious producers" are not the only market for this board. But even within that context, while it's likely that any acoustic instrument emulation can be bettered via software, synth sounds are much more subjective. I mean, who is to say that the sound for "martian landscape" on a given softsynth is better than what someone comes up with on the keyboard?

 

And even for the acoustic sounds, I remember an old conversation here about how many of the most expressive/accurate orchestral emulations require a different playing approach (e.g. dynamics are independent of velocity). So then you get into the additional time/effort/cost to create a part that way (if the player isn't already comfortable/familiar with that approach), and beyond that, we even get into the question of, is absolute authenticity of your string quartet emulation even really the goal in the first place? And if so, heck, if you're talking about serious producers, why not skip the VST and just hire a string quartet?

 

Also, sounds don't always come from the producer... they can come from the player too. And if the player came up with the sound he wants on his Montage, and that was the sound he wrote and rehearsed the song with, and that sound indeed seems perfect for the song, why spend time and money trying to duplicate or "improve" it on a VST?

 

I guess my point is, it doesn't matter whether a keyboard gives you the absolute best possible something-sound. It just has to give you something that works for your use.

[Julius D Majestic Studios]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

It's hard to say without getting my hands on one and trying it myself. But if there were two versions of the M8x, with and without polyAT, I could imagine something like a $200 difference between the two being justifiable. But I suspect that the amount you're actually being charged for this feature is zero, which makes it quite a bargain. 🙂 I mean, based on what the 6/7/8 price difference had been on the Montage it's replacing ($500 jump from one to the next), I bet the price would have been the same with or without this feature. And there may indeed have been virtually no difference in what it costs them to manufacture, especially since, as has been discussed, they are repurposing some existing tech to implement it, i.e. they may indeed have found a way to add this feature without it adding to their manufacturing cost.

 

 

I thought it was stated that it's a completely different keybed from the ones being used for their 88 models before.  

 

FWIW, the ES8, XS8, XF8, Montage 8 keybed all use the same part number from Yamaha... 

The M8X, won't be able to do that (I'd guess). Could be wrong though. 

[AnotherScott]

6 minutes ago, Julius D Majestic Studios said:

I thought it was stated that it's a completely different keybed from the ones being used for their 88 models before.  

 

FWIW, the ES8, XS8, XF8, Montage 8 keybed all use the same part number from Yamaha... 

The M8X, won't be able to do that (I'd guess). Could be wrong though. 

 It's a different action from earlier Montage/Motif/etc. But the tech that allows it to do polyAT is adapted/repurposed from some of their consoles. Whether this new/revised design, in sum, is any more expensive for them to produce than the Montage 8 action was is unknown.

 

See: https://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-m8x-key-notes/

[TJ Cornish]

I had another chunk of time on the Montage M at Guitar Center a couple days ago and wanted to share a few more thoughts. For background, I have 25+ years of flagship workstation experience, currently playing a Fantom 7 and Kronos 2. My last Yamaha was an EX5, so I’m out of date there, though I have a fair bit of experience with Yamaha mixers, so I do get some of the Yamaha design ethos.

 

For some reason GC had the stand set at a really awkward level - way too high for sitting (T-Rex mode), but pretty low for standing. In spite of this, I did find myself liking the action for things other than organ (which isn’t a strength of this board anyway), and the rest of the build quality is first class, which does not surprise me from Yamaha. I’m 99% sure the bottom of the keyboard is MDF rather than metal, which seems to be how many 88’s are built. From a $ per cubic inch perspective, the M8x is one of the best values on the market, as it is HUGE in all dimensions - thick, wide, deep, and heavy. My music desk at home has a double-layered top (non-adjustable) and I’m concerned that a keyboard as thick as the M8x would put me in my own T-Rex mode at home with the keys too high.

 

I have previously written about how I think the Fantom architecture is really well done from the standpoint of giving people what they expect when they build a performance - 16 fully-allocated slots where any sound added into a scene will sound and work as expected - no effects pool that runs out after a couple parts. My ideal workflow is to have the same types of sounds in each zone from scene to scene so when I play, I don’t have to remember where I stuck the XYZ part. On the Fantom this works out as:

 

1. VPiano

2. Tone wheel organ

3. Pad 1

4. Pad 2

5. Some kind of energy booster - polysynth, strings

6. Spare

7. Lead

8. Pulse/bouncy/bells/whatever

 

The Fantom works very well for this workflow, as I can just turn off zones I don’t need but have them present and ready to go if I want them. As I play with varying sizes of teams, a song on a given day may or may not have someone else covering a part, so being able to build from this template gives me the ability to upsize or downsize my sonic footprint. 

 

The Fantom has a couple glitches with this - no seamless switching on VPiano even if I’m going from scenes with exactly the same VPiano patch, but on the whole it works very well - far better than the Kronos due to not having enough IFX to leave this many things assigned. With the dedicated VPiano engine that doesn’t steal polyphony from the rest of the instrument, I have virtually no trouble with polyphony, even when using 5 or 6 zones at a time.

 

I took the above mindset into looking at the Montage M to see if I could get this to work. I was very excited about the small parameter screen above the zone controls and was hopeful this would be really useful live.

 

The good news:

• In spite of the stupid stand height at GC, after sitting on my leg (I could probably have asked them to lower the stand, but hey - I’m from Minnesota - we don’t complain), I did really like the M8x action for piano/general stuff. If I buy one, it will probably be the 8.
•  Yamaha has their own version of “fully allocated parts”, so for the most part, I can setup my categories as above, but there are limitations - the Leslie effect is only available on zone 1.
• FM-X - this is very cool and powerful, and does not use AWM2 polyphony.
• Essentially a second keyboard’s worth of additional polyphony if you use user samples, and there are very high quality and reasonably priced 3rd party libraries that take advantage of this.
• Virtual analog - a very nice bonus!
• 2 insert effects per zone compared to the Fantom’s 1 per zone
• I did not do a lot of detailed listening (forgot to bring headphones), but I do think the Montage sounds better than the Fantom in many categories due to a more complex architecture.
• They did implement a sort-of usable Tonewheel organ that can work if it’s the only sound you are trying to play.
• Basic linear sequencer. The Fantom gets rightly dinged for not having a sequencer that can hold enough notes for a whole song. You don’t get a lot of editing ability on the Montage, but since most folks sequence on the computer and then dump into the board, it’s probably good enough.

 

The bad news:

• This is NOT an organ board. Their “9-bars” organ patch is implemented  in partials, so it takes 9 voices of polyphony per note. There is enough poly to cover 10 fingers’ worth of organ, but not enough for any layering, and might even be marginal if you cheat with the sustain pedal, as I do. The sliders flip like on the Fantoms, but as you only have 8 of them, and as I tend to do a lot with the 9th bar, this is a significant annoyance. I’m told you can get to the 9th bar by switching to another bank, but I tried and failed to find it. Maybe there’s a way to use one of the assignable knobs for this. Lastly, the rotary effect can only be assigned to zone 1, which messes up my zone category system I described above.
• The split AWM2 polyphony is weird. I get architecturally why they had to do it and I’m glad it’s there, but to use it I would have to buy something like EasySounds AnalogExperience to put some samples in the user bank. In practice this probably isn’t a big deal for how I work, but it would be nice if there was a way to copy baked in samples over to the user bank so I could do this with internal sounds.
• The Fantom has a very simple metronome function that I can assign to a button to use as a click track for the band. It always works, is in simple beats (no measure accent), and I can control it from the left side of the keyboard. The Montage has a metronome function, but it has measure accents so I have to care about time signatures rather than simple beats, and so far I haven’t found a way to assign start/stop to a button on the left side of the board - I have to use the transport buttons in the middle. I can get around this I believe by recording a pattern and assigning it to one of the 9-16 parts (this is essentially how I do this on the Kronos), but it’s not as simple as the Fantom.
• Physical size - the M8x is the size of the Ark; even the M7 is big. I don’t care so much about the weight, but the bulk of the M8x is daunting.
• Keyboard can only control zones 1-8 without doing a dumb MIDI loop. I don’t really need more than 8 zones (other than the click track) so this isn’t really a big quality of life limitation, but it’s dumb.
• No sampling at all, even though there are analog inputs. I do use this occasionally; The Fantom’s sampling engine is basic but has worked for me. 
• This could very well be my lack of familiarity with the board, but I didn’t see how to use the small screen to label what the assignable controllers do - I would love to be able to sneak in a part name to see what the zones are doing without having to look at the main screen. Not a big deal, but lessens the utility of the small screen compared to what I was hoping for.
• I’m trying to not conflate my lack of familiarity of the Yamaha workflow with objective truth, but I think it’s hard to make the argument that the Yamaha workflow isn’t more confusing than it needed to be.

 

I’m still on the fence here - I’m excited to get the Fantom EX update which will hopefully scratch some itches, but there is enough of interest in the Montage that maybe one will follow me home at some point.

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

 Yamaha has their own version of “fully allocated parts”, so for the most part, I can setup my categories as above, but there are limitations - the Leslie effect is only available on zone 1.

Similarly, though, the Fantom's V-Piano is only available on part 1 (and now, same with their ACB VA emulations), and their best Leslie effect is only available on zone 2 (with the VTW organ).

 

3 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

•  I do think the Montage sounds better than the Fantom in many categories due to a more complex architecture

Yeah, in straight sampled sounds, I usually prefer Yamaha's sounds, and it may well be related to the fact that they are not limited to 4 elements (partials) as Roland is,

 

3 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

• They did implement a sort-of usable Tonewheel organ that can work if it’s the only sound you are trying to play...This is NOT an organ board. Their “9-bars” organ patch is implemented  in partials, so it takes 9 voices of polyphony per note. There is enough poly to cover 10 fingers’ worth of organ, but not enough for any layering, and might even be marginal if you cheat with the sustain pedal, as I do. The sliders flip like on the Fantoms, but as you only have 8 of them, and as I tend to do a lot with the 9th bar, this is a significant annoyance. I’m told you can get to the 9th bar by switching to another bank, but I tried and failed to find it. 

I already talked about most of this in my reply to you at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/186875-well-lookie-here-rolands-got-something-new-in-store-for-the-fantom/page/2/#comment-2974511 so I won't repeat that here. But as for the 9th slider control, on the Montage/MODX, you can definitely switch to what you're calling another bank in order to get to the level control for the 9th drawbar harmonic (as well as level controls for leakage and click). I can't imagine they did not maintain that facility on the M, but I haven't laid my hands on one yet.

 

3 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

• Lastly, the rotary effect can only be assigned to zone 1, which messes up my zone category system I described above

Like the Roland, it's not that you can't have a rotary effect in any other part/zone than the one they dedicated it to, you just can't have their best rotary effect except in that one part/zone.

 

[miden]

On 11/8/2023 at 3:54 AM, AnotherScott said:

 It's a different action from earlier Montage/Motif/etc. But the tech that allows it to do polyAT is adapted/repurposed from some of their consoles. Whether this new/revised design, in sum, is any more expensive for them to produce than the Montage 8 action was is unknown.

 

See: https://sandsoftwaresound.net/montage-m8x-key-notes/

 

Excellent article there on how it all works, thanks for the link!

[SteveinJersey]

I was originally planning to start a new thread here to ask this question, but for the sake of keeping comments/impressions about the Montage M reasonably consolidated to this existing thread, I'll try asking here first...

 

I have owned a Yamaha Motif XF8 for a number of years and have been debating whether I should sell/trade it in for a Montage M8X.   I was hoping that someone who has had reasonably extensive experience with the XF8 along with some hands-on work with the Montage M could provide a mini comparison and talk about the pro's and con's of 'upgrading.'  I am certainly aware of all the comments about how the sounds on the Montage M have been significantly upgraded, but I'm equally interested in other major attributes - namely things like keybed action, workflow both as a standalone unit and as a controller for DAWs, soft synths etc, ease of programming, etc.   For the record,  while I've used the Motif's pattern sequencer a little, I prefer to do heavy sequence editing and arranging on a computer-based DAW like Logic Pro.   Also, one of the things that's prompted me to seriously consider moving on from the XF8 is that its use of Firewire for its built-in audio interface is to my knowledge no longer supported on the latest Mac hardware / OS platforms and that it's a software issue, not simply using a USBC to Thunderbolt/Firewire adapter.   I know I could purchase and employ a separate audio interface but I really like the capabilities of the Motif's FW16E audio interface, and it looks like the one built into the Montage M would have similar capabilities.

 

With this as a preface,  any thoughts/impressions comparing the XF8 and M8X would be very welcome.  And again, if you think it'd be better for everyone to ask this question in a separate thread, just let me know and I'll do so.

 

 

[TJ Cornish]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Similarly, though, the Fantom's V-Piano is only available on part 1 (and now, same with their ACB VA emulations), and their best Leslie effect is only available on zone 2 (with the VTW organ).

 

Yeah, in straight sampled sounds, I usually prefer Yamaha's sounds, and it may well be related to the fact that they are not limited to 4 elements (partials) as Roland is,

 

I already talked about most of this in my reply to you at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/186875-well-lookie-here-rolands-got-something-new-in-store-for-the-fantom/page/2/#comment-2974511 so I won't repeat that here. But as for the 9th slider control, on the Montage/MODX, you can definitely switch to what you're calling another bank in order to get to the level control for the 9th drawbar harmonic (as well as level controls for leakage and click). I can't imagine they did not maintain that facility on the M, but I haven't laid my hands on one yet.

 

Like the Roland, it's not that you can't have a rotary effect in any other part/zone than the one they dedicated it to, you just can't have their best rotary effect except in that one part/zone.

 

I obviously understand the Fantom’s slot limitations for VPiano and tonewheel on zones 1 and 2 respectively; that happens to work for me (with a minor move from my Kronos workflow where I put the organ on 8). With the Yamaha, I would have to always put the organ on zone 1, or more likely, in the rare event I needed it, would have to have a different layout of zones than my usual template. First world problems, I know, but I believe you and I agree that in many cases, the control and usability architecture equals or even exceeds sound quality, so it matters to me.

 

I want to get over there again and take another crack at the smaller screen. If I can put user labels on the assign page, that might be good enough.

[DeltaJockey]

I'm pretty sure also the bottom is MDF. I find the build quality to be identical to my old Montage8. The only 88's I have which is are not MDF bases are the Numa Piano X GT, (Metal Chassis), and RD88 plastic. But they are smaller form factor stage pianos, so I get that.

 

When I originally bought my Montage8, it came with a Yamaha tied licence for SampleRobot. I've used this in the past, and have several of my favorite programs from my Kronos over on my Montage M8x. I never really used the sampler on the Kronos, so don't miss one with the Montage, given I have SampleRobot, which is easier to operate.

 

I use my Montage M8x as my main studio controller. Many folks talk about the improved quality of the  audio interface, I can endorse that. Not only do I enjoy the new performances which come with it, but ALL my old Montage sounds do sound noticeably better on the new interface. I use all 4 outputs in surround, and even run the Montage performances out though Logic with effects like impulse reverb, then back into the Montage to the 4 monitors. The stereo image is the best I've heard, I think the phase distortion is really low. My Kronos audio goes through the Montage too, because everything you put through its audio comes out super washed and smooth.

 

[TJ Cornish]

2 hours ago, TJ Cornish said:

I want to get over there again and take another crack at the smaller screen. If I can put user labels on the assign page, that might be good enough.

I found time to stop by again and looked into Assign mode. Yes - you can set custom names for the Assign knobs; what I struggled with is that they seem to operate in relative mode rather than absolute mode.

 

On the Fantom I like dual assigning part volume to both the sliders and knobs. Sliders are great for fast changes, but they lose reference to the logical value if they are in a different physical place when you change scenes. The knobs are nice for small changes where I don’t have to worry about “catching” the value with the fader, which often causes a jump in part volume. On the Montage, I can assign a knob to “Volume”, but it works as a relative offset rather than affecting the actual part volume. I looked to see if I could find an absolute mode, but did not find one. There is a part volume page for the knobs that is pre-assigned, however the text is fixed at “Part 1”, “Part 2”, etc. 

 

I was able to work out the metronome as a pattern on part 16 to my liking with just simple beats. It works fine via the transport controls, but I verified part start/stop can’t be assigned to an assignable button on the left side.

 

As I continue to spend time with it I feel like we could come to a functional understanding, and if I didn’t already have two great workstations I would likely get one. The question for me is whether it is really materially better than the Fantom for my purposes. The Fantom is more of an immediate keyboard. The Yamaha seems like it can do more stuff than the Fantom, but the price for that is a lot more setting up things. 

 

I had a gander through the original Montage firmware update list to see what they added over the life of that instrument. I may be underestimating the improvements, but they didn’t seem that earth shattering - at least compared to all of the huge adds of the Fantom. You can take that two ways I suppose - Yamaha may be the more considered player that delivered a nearly complete product initially and added only small tweaks while Roland released a half-baked product and only recently built it up to what it should have been, or you could judge that Yamaha is unresponsive to their customers and you are likely to get stuck with the way it is.

 

My gut feel is the future of the Montage M firmware is a few small changes, and major adds/updates are unlikely, so if I do go forward, it will be on the basis of what it can do today, not pie in the sky hopes for improvements. For what it is worth, I bought my Fantom in the fall of 2021 after initially rejecting it as not doing what I needed. When they added the organ mode and a few other changes, then it became interesting.

[miden]

My question is, if you had the $'s would you get the Nord Stage 88, or the Montage M?

[Stokely]

I've gigged with a Modx and now a NS3 quite a bit.

For me that answer is pretty easy and it's the Nord (assuming a stage 4).  I'd prefer a 7 octave board over either given a choice but the Nord's 7 octave keybeds don't have a great rep.

My Modx can do a ton more than the Stage 3 but end of the day I don't need "more" to do the music I do live.  If I was somehow roped into doing songs like "uptown funk" or whatever all the time or needed a sequencer, different story.

Yamaha pianos are awful in mono, sounds like a minor issue but for me it's been a struggle.  Nord White Grand seems better though still far from ideal.

People don't like the Nord organ but it works fine for me.   Unless the Montage added a new leslie or the YC organ that would be a problem if doing one keyboard gigs as I do.   Sure I could use an ipad, and I did for 30+ gigs, but I prefer not to.

Main dealbreaker would be weight, again thinking of gigs.  The Montage is 20 pounds or so heavier and that is quite a bit when the case is added.  Yamaha keyboards I've owned (motif and moxf8) besides the Modx7 (which I can wave around like a tinkertoy) have been large and bulky with angles that make them tougher to pick up and handle.  Not sure about this new one.  That is just as important as the weight IMO.

For home use the answer would be "neither", I only need a controller.

[miden]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

I've gigged with a Modx and now a NS3 quite a bit.

For me that answer is pretty easy and it's the Nord (assuming a stage 4).  I'd prefer a 7 octave board over either given a choice but the Nord's 7 octave keybeds don't have a great rep.

My Modx can do a ton more than the Stage 3 but end of the day I don't need "more" to do the music I do live.  If I was somehow roped into doing songs like "uptown funk" or whatever all the time or needed a sequencer, different story.

Yamaha pianos are awful in mono, sounds like a minor issue but for me it's been a struggle.  Nord White Grand seems better though still far from ideal.

People don't like the Nord organ but it works fine for me.   Unless the Montage added a new leslie or the YC organ that would be a problem if doing one keyboard gigs as I do.   Sure I could use an ipad, and I did for 30+ gigs, but I prefer not to.

Main dealbreaker would be weight, again thinking of gigs.  The Montage is 20 pounds or so heavier and that is quite a bit when the case is added.  Yamaha keyboards I've owned (motif and moxf8) besides the Modx7 (which I can wave around like a tinkertoy) have been large and bulky with angles that make them tougher to pick up and handle.  Not sure about this new one.  That is just as important as the weight IMO.

For home use the answer would be "neither", I only need a controller.

 

 

Thanks, good info! And yes it would be the Stage 4.

[AnotherScott]

20 hours ago, miden said:

My question is, if you had the $'s would you get the Nord Stage 88, or the Montage M?

 

Since presumably thousands of people over the coming years will choose to buy one of those boards and not the other, I don't know how helpful any particular individual's choice will be. 😉 Really, it depends on how you're comparing them. For what uses, for what sounds, for what real-time vs. non real-time capabilities, etc.

 

I think that what makes this comparison especially tricky is that, apart from budget, the boards are so different. If I were going to compare a Nord Stage 88 to something from Yamaha, it would be more like a YC88 (or even CK88), in terms of being similar at least in terms of overall versatility (or more precisely, I suppose, the lack thereof), method of operation (based around lots of real-time dedicated controls) and emphasis on pianos+organs. It's kind of like instead of comparing two 2-seater sports cars, you're comparing a 2-seater sport car to an SUV, because for the latter comparison (unlike the former), it really depends greatly on what your uses are going to be. (Though the addition of the VA synth section to the M narrows the functionality gap between the boards a bit.) And also, I think a lot can also depend on whether it's your only car/keyboard, or if you'll also have something else.

 

If you really couldn't decided which general approach you prefer, to me, the board that's closest to being a hybrid of the Montage and Nord approaches would be the Fantom, which has the more Nord-like separate dedicated synth controls for its VA synth and the real tonewheel organ emulation with real-time 9-drawbar control, while also having a more Montage-level of flexibility and depth.

 

20 hours ago, Stokely said:

For me that answer is pretty easy and it's the Nord (assuming a stage 4).  I'd prefer a 7 octave board over either given a choice but the Nord's 7 octave keybeds don't have a great rep.

Assuming you mean 7x-key boards (since 7 octaves would be 84 keys), with the Nord Stage 4, Nord has gone back to using the same action for their 76 hammer action board as they do for their 88 (something they hadn't done in the Stage since the original Stage 2), so there's no step-down in keybed feel from the 88 to the 76 (as there was in the Stage 2 EX and Stage 3)

 

20 hours ago, Stokely said:

People don't like the Nord organ but it works fine for me.   Unless the Montage added a new leslie or the YC organ that would be a problem if doing one keyboard gigs as I do.   

They did add the new (YC) leslie, but not the YC organ engine itself.

 

20 hours ago, Stokely said:

For home use the answer would be "neither", I only need a controller.

Budget aside, I might like the idea of either of these boards as controllers! The M8 intrigues me for its poly AT... I'll be curious to see how its action feels compared to other poly AT boards (whether they are controllers or also have their own sounds). For the Nord, I like the idea of controlling a VST organ with properly sized-and-spaced drawbars while also having a bunch of logically laid out and labeled common synth and effects controls... but I'd also have to look into how well the Nord 4 knob arrangement maps (it is centered less on 100% dedicated knobs than the NS3 was). I also really like the Nord pitch stick, and Nord's (mono) aftertouch seems well implemented (though I haven't tried it on the NS4 in particular).

 

Gigging weight aside, a Montage 8M and a Nord Stage 4 Compact could conceivably be my ideal pair, to cover all uses!

[miden]

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

............Budget aside, I might like the idea of either of these boards as controllers! The M8 intrigues me for its poly AT... I'll be curious to see how its action feels compared to other poly AT boards (whether they are controllers or also have their own sounds). For the Nord, I like the idea of controlling a VST organ with properly sized-and-spaced drawbars while also having a bunch of logically laid out and labeled common synth and effects controls... but I'd also have to look into how well the Nord 4 knob arrangement maps (it is centered less on 100% dedicated knobs than the NS3 was). I also really like the Nord pitch stick, and Nord's (mono) aftertouch seems well implemented (though I haven't tried it on the NS4 in particular).

 

Gigging weight aside, a Montage 8M and a Nord Stage 4 Compact could conceivably be my ideal pair, to cover all uses!

 

haha, yes weight...thought I'd better just check it. OMG, 27+ kilos  and add a case on top. Might need to re-think this I think. The NI Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk3 has the PAT as well, so maybe that along with the PC and all of my VSTs might be a better alternate.

 

The only thing is I have read that this new electromagnetic keyboard system enables one to play even synth lines on it almost as quickly as a non-weighted 'board...so there is that. Have not had a chance to get to the store (about 400 klms away) to try it for myself. Stage 4 is about $3k more than the Montage 8 down here btw...

[Motif88]

On 11/9/2023 at 3:19 PM, DeltaJockey said:

I'm pretty sure also the bottom is MDF. I find the build quality to be identical to my old Montage8. The only 88's I have which is are not MDF bases are the Numa Piano X GT, (Metal Chassis), and RD88 plastic. But they are smaller form factor stage pianos, so I get that.

 

When I originally bought my Montage8, it came with a Yamaha tied licence for SampleRobot. I've used this in the past, and have several of my favorite programs from my Kronos over on my Montage M8x. I never really used the sampler on the Kronos, so don't miss one with the Montage, given I have SampleRobot, which is easier to operate.

 

I use my Montage M8x as my main studio controller. Many folks talk about the improved quality of the  audio interface, I can endorse that. Not only do I enjoy the new performances which come with it, but ALL my old Montage sounds do sound noticeably better on the new interface. I use all 4 outputs in surround, and even run the Montage performances out though Logic with effects like impulse reverb, then back into the Montage to the 4 monitors. The stereo image is the best I've heard, I think the phase distortion is really low. My Kronos audio goes through the Montage too, because everything you put through its audio comes out super washed and smooth.

 

Can you comment on the setup of the Montage M with Logic? Does it get setup the same way the older Montage and MODX using the “Mackie Control Surface” or did they update the integration?

Thank you!

[DeltaJockey]

5 hours ago, Motif88 said:

Can you comment on the setup of the Montage M with Logic? Does it get setup the same way the older Montage and MODX using the “Mackie Control Surface” or did they update the integration?

Thank you!

I've not properly delved into this yet, but I was encouraged to see there is a dedicated DAW button now. In reading the manual, it appears to be the same as the previous Montage and the Logic controller needs to be set to Mackie Control Surface still. What I did notice though, when pressing the DAW button, the main display comes up with dedicated mapping display for all the control surfaces in one place, and the sub display nicely gives realtime feedback of all the sliders and rotaries, like when editing an analog performance. Have not had time to become any authority on the new DAW settings as yet though.

[Motif88]

Thank you!

[DeltaJockey]

One other thing to note, there are 3 modes the DAW remote will work in: Mixer(Track), Plugin controls, or Transport mapping. Seems quite a bit more powerful than the previous model.

 

I would suggest you just download the User Manual for the Montage M. Looking through it myself, this will answer most of your questions, I would think,

 

 

[ProfD]

On 11/10/2023 at 2:42 PM, miden said:

My question is, if you had the $'s would you get the Nord Stage 88, or the Montage M?

Nord Stage especially if one plays more than just the keys.

 

If a muso needs real-time control over the sounds being played, the Nord Stage is hard to beat in that regard.

 

Otherwise, if one is just pulling up presets and pressing keys, any ROMpler will suffice.😎

[TJ Cornish]

On 10/20/2023 at 1:32 PM, TJ Cornish said:

I spent the vast majority of my time playing with the metronome. Starting and stopping the metronome via the transport control buttons works even with an empty pattern which is good, however I couldn’t find a way to turn off the downbeat accent, meaning I have to care about measures and time signatures rather than just beats. I saw the time signature field, but it was grayed out and I never did figure out how to change it from 4/4. For my usage, this probably isn’t good enough, so I would have to pursue the manual pattern option in performance slot 9 thing. I don’t think this is a deal breaker - it’s closer to how I had to implement this on the Kronos, but it highlights a really simple feature that the Fantom has where in about two button presses it works exactly the way I want it.

 

I have spent the last few weeks ruminating on the Montage M. I experimented with creating a click pattern and assigning it to part 9-16, but that causes seamless switching to not be available, which is a deal breaker for me. While browsing the full manual, I caught something that I verified works in the store - you can set the pattern time signature to 1/4 which eliminates the measure accent on the metronome (or more probably makes every beat an accent beat, but that’s still good enough with the choices of click tone they provide). This allows the metronome to work the way I want it without requiring dedicating a part to it with a custom pattern. It’s a little bit of an odd way to solve the problem, but gets me 95% of the way there.

[Motif88]

Not sure if it's time to start a new "non-Rumor" Montage thread. Regardless, I pulled the trigger.

 

Sold my Hydrasynth Deluxe via Reverb and traded in my RD-2000 with RPU-3 Triple Pedal to local Sam Ash to avoid the hassle of shipping that beast. Sam Ash was kind enough to give me a 10% discount on the Montage after 46 years as a loyal customer.

 

Net,  Montage M8x for $1700 (plus tax). SOLD!

 

I hope I like the damn thing as I'm buying it before playing it. Only other option was a flight to Sweetwater, Sam Ash NY or Chuck Levin's and still having to deal with how to ship the RD-2000 and not lose money.

[DeltaJockey]

1 hour ago, Motif88 said:

Not sure if it's time to start a new "non-Rumor" Montage thread. Regardless, I pulled the trigger.

 

Sold my Hydrasynth Deluxe via Reverb and traded in my RD-2000 with RPU-3 Triple Pedal to local Sam Ash to avoid the hassle of shipping that beast. Sam Ash was kind enough to give me a 10% discount on the Montage after 46 years as a loyal customer.

 

Net,  Montage M8x for $1700 (plus tax). SOLD!

 

I hope I like the damn thing as I'm buying it before playing it. Only other option was a flight to Sweetwater, Sam Ash NY or Chuck Levin's and still having to deal with how to ship the RD-2000 and not lose money.

Congrats! I don't know your specific tastes, but it didn't disappoint me

 

I was playing around with my Kronos 2 the other day, and enjoying some of the old combis I had, and thinking the RH3 still felt pretty good. Then went over to playing those Combis on the new Montage GEX. Man, the industry's come along way in what a good action feels like!

 

My disappointment is the challenge trying to on sell my old Montage 8. I almost pondered dismantling it for parts Ha Ha. I wish Yamaha would bring out a standalone USB audio interface that uses the same chipset as the Montage, it's one thing in the studio that really stands out to my ears.

 

Another thing which puzzles me about the Montage. They don't seem to make a triple pedal which works with it. I know it's a synth, and not an exclusive stage piano, but it plays piano well, and it would be nice to be able to buy one that suits. The only ones I've seen from Yamaha are those console pedals on the end of a mounting rod.

If anyone has any clue on this, I'd appreciate their insight. I did consider just putting 3 pedals on a board, but why should I have to. The onboard default pianos, as far as I know, don't support soft or sostenuto, though I would think it could be edited in. But I use the Montage as a controller for vst's and Pianoteq that do.

 

Perhaps it's time for a real Montage M thread

 

 

[Motif88]

2 hours ago, DeltaJockey said:

Congrats! I don't know your specific tastes, but it didn't disappoint me

 

I was playing around with my Kronos 2 the other day, and enjoying some of the old combis I had, and thinking the RH3 still felt pretty good. Then went over to playing those Combis on the new Montage GEX. Man, the industry's come along way in what a good action feels like!

 

My disappointment is the challenge trying to on sell my old Montage 8. I almost pondered dismantling it for parts Ha Ha. I wish Yamaha would bring out a standalone USB audio interface that uses the same chipset as the Montage, it's one thing in the studio that really stands out to my ears.

 

Another thing which puzzles me about the Montage. They don't seem to make a triple pedal which works with it. I know it's a synth, and not an exclusive stage piano, but it plays piano well, and it would be nice to be able to buy one that suits. The only ones I've seen from Yamaha are those console pedals on the end of a mounting rod.

If anyone has any clue on this, I'd appreciate their insight. I did consider just putting 3 pedals on a board, but why should I have to. The onboard default pianos, as far as I know, don't support soft or sostenuto, though I would think it could be edited in. But I use the Montage as a controller for vst's and Pianoteq that do.

 

Perhaps it's time for a real Montage M thread

 

 

We will see...I had a Kronos (gen 1), Motif 8, Motif ES8 and Motif XS8 before I and sold/traded for the RD-2000 and a bunch of software synths. My choices really came down to the Montage M8x and the Nord Stage 8. I know, I know, totally different animals but the point is, what will motivate and inspire me? I've worked too long and too hard not have choices at this point on my life.

 

[TJ Cornish]

I gave in and took delivery of my M8x today. I DO NOT like the physical thickness of the board - right now I’m sitting on a pillow on my chair to get to a reasonable height with the keyboard on my music desk surface. Long term I’m going to have to do something about that. I’m still getting up to speed on the workflow - there is a lot to know and sort out with many layers of settings - element, part, common, the various assignable controls, etc, so there is a lot of work ahead there as well, but THE SOUND!!! This sounds really fantastic.

 

I think the Fantom gives a little quicker instant gratification as it’s a simpler architecture, but I always felt like the sounds were a bit of a compromise - VPiano, strings, Rhodes/Wurlys, etc. The Fantom does a lot in a small package (I have the Fantom 7), and the tone wheel organ is a lot better designed than the partial-based one in the Montage M, but I think that with time investment, the M8x will pay dividends in sound quality. I haven’t yet tried recreating the pain points on that I found on the Fantom (timing issues with LFOs not being synced to MIDIClock, glitches with fader catch mode where suddenly they just decide to go to jump mode, no seamless patch switching with VPiano, etc.). But I suspect I won’t find these problems in the Montage. Perhaps there will be new ones that bug me that the Fantom didn’t have - TBD.

 

I am exploring ways to maximize polyphony. I really like the CFX piano. I have been going back and forth on if I want to get a piano sample to push that function into the user bank processor, or if I get an analog samples library and use the CFX piano. I may do both. I don’t think this is a good board for someone who doesn’t have at least a little desire to get their hands dirty, but it sure feels like the potential is there.

[ProfD]

7 hours ago, Motif88 said:

Sold my Hydrasynth Deluxe via Reverb and traded in my RD-2000...

 

Net,  Montage M8x for $1700 (plus tax). SOLD!

Congrats on the purchase. Enjoy the new KB. Time to update the signature line.😁😎

[Motif88]

Yes, running out room to list all the gear that I have sold/traded over the years. While I couldn’t play the M8x before I bought it, being able to trade in my RD-2000 at a local Sam Ash without the hassle of shipping that monster was worth the hit I took on the trade in $ versus packing & shipping.

 

We’ll see. Delivery is scheduled for Sunday.