Mixer for live performances

[88keez]

I am looking for a digital or analog mixer for live onstage performances.  I use 2 keyboards (sometimes 3) for my live rig and have been using a Soundcraft notepad until recently when I dropped it and it has become unuseable.  Does anyone have any recommendations for another mixer (digital or analog)?  I have been looking at the Radial Key Largo which would work but it doesn't have a headphone out so I'm hesitant to purchase this unit.  I would need 2 main xlr outs as well.  Also debating whether I need to spend more money on a digital mixer or stay with an analog mixer.  Any advice or recommendations would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Michael Wright]

Radial KL 8

[CEB]

Form factor depends on how you want to work.  How streamlined you want setups and tear down and how much effort you want to put into making you rig streamlined.   Something like Key Largo may be perfect. To me it would be cumbersome. … because of how I like to work. 

[kenheeter]

I had a Key Largo. I now have an XAir 12.  It does everything I need and much more.  Highly recommended.

[ElmerJFudd]

8 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

I had a Key Largo. I now have an XAir 12.  It does everything I need and much more.  Highly recommended.

I have an XAir 12 - I’ve struggled to control it since I got an iPad.  I don’t see a working Behringer control app?  Do you get into your settings via a laptop?  

[Canoehead]

+1 for Radial KL 8.

 

cheers,

Canoe

[88keez]

Thanks for the replies.  I've looked at the KL 8 as well but not sure if I want to spring for that kind of money.  In anyone's experience is it worth it to go to a digital mixer over an analog mixer?

[88keez]

Kenheeter, was there a problem with the Key Largo for you to switch to the XAir 12?

[nursers]

+3 for the KL-8 but understand that may be outside budget.

[kenheeter]

The Key Largo couldn't handle   taking a monitor feed into my system and not sending it back out to FOH.  The XAir does that with ease. As far as controlling it with an iPad, it works very well with a great app called Mixing Station.  The app is free and you buy a license for whichever digital mixer you have.  It's great because the same interface works with multiple digital mixer brands so once you learn the interface you're good to go.  I have two iPads ( M1 ) and my iphone 12 all working perfectly with the XAir.  One license covers 4 devices.

I gave up on the Behringer app. No regrets.

[kenheeter]

Here' s a great tutorial on Mixing Station.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

10 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

Here' s a great tutorial on Mixing Station.

 

Good to know! 

[D. Gauss]

fwiw, mixing station is an amazing app.  been using it for years on tons of different mixers.    back to the OP... you might want to look into the behringer flow 8. powerful little beast.

 

[CEB]

I dislike desktop/tabletop mixers.  The power and cable I/O can be cumbersome and not as clean.  I need two buses and 8+ inputs and want 1 space rack unit with front facing controls.  Here is my rig when I use 2 workstations.  But for some desktop mixers are perfect.

 

Setup is:

1 Set 2 boards on the stand.

2 Place the pedal case with pedals mounted, lift lids and plug in pedals to the boards. Also holds power distribution for the boards.

3 Sit rack bag on the floor and run the snake from the boards to the rack's pass-thru patch panel.

4 Sound guys plug into the rack.

 

I used the Samson SM10.  Not the greatest audio line mixer but it checked all the boxes and has proven to be dependable.  

 

First step is count the buses and channels you need.  Then decide the form factor.  Looking at both Key Largo and KL-8 says you need to decide the form factor first. They are completely different.

 

[Michael Wright]

2 hours ago, 88keez said:

Thanks for the replies.  I've looked at the KL 8 as well but not sure if I want to spring for that kind of money.  In anyone's experience is it worth it to go to a digital mixer over an analog mixer?

I find I don't want to overcomplicate things anymore.  I mentioned the KL 8 because of the op's desire for headphone capability.  I had a Samson SM 10 as CEB has mentioned and was happy with it, (your most economical  option).  I also still have an Ashley 308b.  All of these fit the bill.   

[hrestov]

If you want to stay cheap, stable, little, but still very good audio quality, mackie vlz802. It can handle monitoring by Foh and don’t send it to its xlr outputs. So you can hear monitoring and your keyboards (in stereo) and balance them by autonomy. the only down is that it hasn’t fx. 
 

An other option is behringer flow 8 or xr12. Digital and with a lot of possibility, especially for routing. And have fx. More expensive. I think maybe the quality output of mackie is better than behringer’s. 
 

Key largo doesn’t have any monitoring possibility, so I never think to it.  Key largo 8 o don’t know. 

[MPN21]

6 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

fwiw, mixing station is an amazing app.  been using it for years on tons of different mixers.    back to the OP... you might want to look into the behringer flow 8. powerful little beast.

Can you use the Mixing Station app with the Flow 8? 

[stoken6]

13 hours ago, 88keez said:

I use 2 keyboards (sometimes 3) for my live rig [...]  I have been looking at the Radial Key Largo which would work but it doesn't have a headphone out so I'm hesitant to purchase this unit.  I would need 2 main xlr outs as well. 

So requirements are for 2-3 line inputs and a headphone out.

- Do you need stereo inputs?

- Do you need any mic inputs?

- Do you need a foldback input for a monitor mix that does not get sent back to FoH? That's a critical requirement that not all equipment gets right.

- Budget?

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

 

[marino]

6 hours ago, CEB said:

I used the Samson SM10.  Not the greatest audio line mixer but it checked all the boxes and has proven to be dependable. 

 

Thanks for the headsup on the Samson. I have a couple of Roland M120s on the shelf and they still work, but I'm not sure I can rely on them on stage. I searched a bit and the closest thing seems to be the Behringer RX1602 V2, but I have had bad experiences with Behringer mixers in the past... the Samson seems to be equivalent, plus XLR outs and a couple of mic preamps. It's almost twice the cost of the Behringer, but still quite cheap. (The Radial stuff looks great, but their prices are beyond my scope.)
However, I have a couple of Samson controller keyboards, and they perform well, but not great. Glitchy and sometimes unstable. Can I ask how's your experience with the SM10 regarding sound quality, reliability and noise floor?

[Zalman Stern]

1 hour ago, MPN21 said:

Can you use the Mixing Station app with the Flow 8? 

Flow 8 is not listed in their supported mixers and I'm pretty sure it is not supported. Mixing Station works with mixers that are controlled over a network. Flow 8 only has USB and Bluetooth. Possible he'll add B:uetooth/USB/MIDI at some point...

 

Per the Behringer Xair issue with the iPad app, Behringer recently updated it, and the Midas version, and it was working when I checked in early August. However that it took more than six months to do so is a huge red flag. (Annoying as the MR18 is a fairly good product.) Mixing Station is nice to have around, but in this case it's probably the reason Behringer didn't feel a ton of urgency on the fix. Choosing a mixer that has a web UI is one way to avoid the app compatibility/longevity issue. (E.g. SoundCraft. One can use the web UI or Mixing Station.)

 

As to the original question, I'd say the only advantage to a digital mixer here is if one wants remote control and to save different configurations, etc. Digital really should be cheaper, though perhaps not at the lower levels of quality. A fair number of audio interfaces have mixing support, but may or may not have the controls one wants on the device or a good app designed for live mixing. (And those that do are up a bit in price. E.g. a MOTO Ultralite Mk5 is $650.)

 

ART has the USBMix6, which is similar to the Soundcraft Notepad concept and very economical.

 

Per headphone output, consider that running a line out to a headphone amp may be what you want anyway as most on device headphone outputs aren't that great. I've gone from wanting audio interfaces/mixers/etc. to have all the inputs/outputs I'd ever need to accepting that DI boxes and headphone amps are a thing for a reason. (Quality, flexibility, useful for other applications etc.)

 

-Z-

 

[The_Star_Guy]

I really appreciate all of these tips, especially regarding the Mixing Station App.   I,  too have been using the Soundcraft NotePad as the stage mixer for my keys, but I have also been recently contemplating switching to a rack-mountable Digital mixer setup as well.   And reviewing the app I see that it is compatible with Mackie, Behringer, Soundcraft, Allen & Heath and the new Yamaha DM series.

[CEB]

3 hours ago, marino said:

 

Thanks for the headsup on the Samson. I have a couple of Roland M120s on the shelf and they still work, but I'm not sure I can rely on them on stage. I searched a bit and the closest thing seems to be the Behringer RX1602 V2, but I have had bad experiences with Behringer mixers in the past... the Samson seems to be equivalent, plus XLR outs and a couple of mic preamps. It's almost twice the cost of the Behringer, but still quite cheap. (The Radial stuff looks great, but their prices are beyond my scope.)
However, I have a couple of Samson controller keyboards, and they perform well, but not great. Glitchy and sometimes unstable. Can I ask how's your experience with the SM10 regarding sound quality, reliability and noise floor?

There is a slight noise floor. Ashley mixers are quieter.  Live it is not an issue though.  I wouldn’t want to use it for recording.   However, when I bought the Samson they were inexpensive. 

[ImproKeys]

The native XR App for iPad is working and will be supported until the newly developed app will be available.

[ElmerJFudd]

Just now, ImproKeys said:

The native XR App for iPad is working and will be supported until the newly developed app will be available.

This is a recent occurrence?   I tried earlier this summer with no luck.  

[Red Ranger]

Note that while the current X-Air ipad app (finally!) works, there's a bug when connecting multiple devices which can result in "frozen faders" (i.e., the UI doesn't update when you try to move a fader, even though it really is adjusting the level). I've run into this a couple of times, but it's also worked for me occasionally. I'm planning to switch to Mixing Station as soon as there's enough time between gigs to get comfortable with it.

 

Behringer is aware of the problem, at least according to someone on the facebook forum for the XR mixers.

[Motif88]

Slightly off topic…what about a rack mount mixer that includes an audio interface?

Thank you!

[kenheeter]

I have an XAir 18 in my studio for 16 input channels and audio interface.  It works well for me.
 

[ElmerJFudd]

25 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

I have an XAir 18 in my studio for 16 input channels and audio interface.  It works well for me.
 

How are you controlling the 18? 

[Delaware Dave]

Alto Live 802.  8 channel w/ 5 xlr inputs. All 8 channels have 'gain' control (most mixers do not have gain controls on non xlr channels).  The 5 xlr channels also accept both TS and TRS inputs. 9 band global EQ functions on either the main or aux send outputs, separate XLR, TS/TRS outputs, separate monitor outputs, built in power supply , alesis effects, 3 band EQ on each channel.  Mine sits right on top of my monitor.  Been using it for 3-4 years and not one single problem with it.  Quiet as a mouse...  Bought mine new for $110.

 

https://www.altoprofessional.com/products/live-802

[ImproKeys]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

This is a recent occurrence?   I tried earlier this summer with no luck.  

They updated a few weeks ago.