Just when I thought I’d seen it all - obnoxious bar manager

[MathOfInsects]

It's Fuckwit's liquor license (and job) on the line, so I can't fault him for checking. But it sounds like he could use some lessons in interpersonal communication. You were both primed to see the worst in one another. That seems right in line with a band made in EVH's honor, so in the end maybe we can thank Fuckwit for keeping you guys on brand.

Good luck with the project!

[Stokely]

Kind of a unique and odd anecdote concerning crappy managers.

We usually just get the ordinary douchebags who didn't leave a check and whoever is left in charge can't pay us.  Singer has had to go back the following day to pick it up.   Stuff like that.

And of course trying to get gigs in the first place can be demeaning, especially for a female bandleader (like our singer).  She'll drive out to meet someone at a certain time, they aren't there and no message to let her know.   Lots of runarounds and there is no shortage of misogyny in those circles.

Glad I'm not running a band, I lack the patience to deal with immature jerks without "escalation" (that goes for musicians and club managers alike).  I've had a few bandmates get on my case about something, and that shit gets sorted out real quick one way or another.

[Reezekeys]

Oh how we could have a thread about suck-ass club owners and the shit they pull. Don't get me started! At least I'm looking at that stuff in my rear-view mirror in my tender old age. You have TV sets set to ESPN during our set? Call someone else! Your millennial bartender with the ear hoops starts the EDM pumping before our last chord of the set dies out? Call someone else! You book us to play jazz, then in-between sets it's "CAN'T YOU PLAY SOMETHING WE LIKE?".... yea, call someone else! I'm glad to be done with this particular corner of the music business!

[TommyRude]

guys guys guys... the real problem here is Jack Daniels, way too bitter.  Jim Beam is better.

[Old No7]

2 hours ago, TommyRude said:

guys guys guys... the real problem here is Jack Daniels, way too bitter.  Jim Beam is better.

 

You are now BANNED from this forum!

 

 How DARE you say that!?

 

< Just kidding!  You like what you like...  I like JACK! >

[Baldwin Funster]

Everybody knows Flaming Homers

are the best.

[niacin]

I imagine there's a mirror-image thread on the bar manager's forum: "Just when I thought I'd seen it all - f#*kwit bands," with the same mirror-image reponses: "yeh they did the wrong thing, but you drank their tea???  Douch bag."

[bill5]

8 hours ago, MathOfInsects said:

It's Fuckwit's liquor license (and job) on the line, so I can't fault him for checking. But it sounds like he could use some lessons in interpersonal communication. You were both primed to see the worst in one another. 

Exactly......hopefully the manager eventually realized he wasn't faultless in hindsight too...thought that sounds like a coin flip at best.

 

  

12 hours ago, CowboyNQ said:

Not really disagreeing with myself at all there Bill!  My original post stated we learned a lesson from the experience in the last paragraph.  It’s always important to ask oneself “what could I have done differently to prevent this from happening?”  We made the mistake of assuming that our friend would understand the context of the JD bottle given the act we were tributing.  This was naive on our part.
 

I should also mention that culturally speaking, Australians are very relaxed about alcohol, including teetotallers - one of whom happens to be my brother, the chief offender.  Perhaps he’s more of a tea totaller.  This makes a bar manager objecting to alcohol (fake or not) on stage very unusual.  I speak from deep experience.
 

We’ll continue to use the bottle as a prop as we believe it’s appropriate, however in future we’ll word up bar staff in advance.  I know what will happen - they’ll shrug and say “whatever”, but at least we’ll prevent future flare ups.

 

What I do most certainly disagree with is the behaviour of the bar manager.  There was no call for it at all.  His approach, demeanour and inferences were rude, unprofessional and unhelpful.  I’m proud to say we did not return fire in kind.

Yeah not worded well on my part, I meant that you (at the event) initially seemed to feel it was all on the manager, but in hindsight realized y'all should have handled it differently, that's all.

 

Wait...this is in Australia? What self-respecting Australian frowns on ANY kind of drinking?    

[jazzpiano88]

13 hours ago, CowboyNQ said:

I should also mention that culturally speaking, Australians are very relaxed about alcohol, including teetotallers - one of whom happens to be my brother, the chief offender.  Perhaps he’s more of a tea totaller.  This makes a bar manager objecting to alcohol (fake or not) on stage very unusual.  I speak from deep experience.

 

That makes sense.  Here in the USA, we still have all manner of people casting judgments on people's personal habits involving alcohol, where, as you may have read, we once banned it (and then un-banniated it) in our constitution.   Lots of people here are still quite judgemental regarding its consumption. 

[Delaware Dave]

We have a place we play that has us booked through the end of 2024. We've been playing there for about 1 year.  This past Saturday we played a new place (i.e. our first time there). About 4 hours before we started playing the owner of the other place sent us a text saying that because we were playing the new place he is not honoring our 2024 shows but is still letting us play out the 2023 schedule at his place (4 more shows through December). The new place we played is about 7 miles from his club.  This is the same guy who encouraged us to play another club about 5 miles from his club in the hopes of our band building a crowd in the area that we'd then pull over to his club.  So we can play a club 5 miles away but not 7 miles away.   WTF???

 

P.S.  we play there next weekend and now nobody in the band wants to play the show knowing the situation that we have with him.  Up until the text message he's been a huge supporter of the band.  We did steal about 30 people who normally go to his club but instead went to our show but how would he know that when he sent the text message 4 hours before we started playing?  Now we have to deal with bar owner drama ...

[Baldwin Funster]

1 hour ago, Delaware Dave said:

We have a place we play that has us booked through December 2024. We've been playing there for about 1 year.  This past Saturday we played a new place (i.e. our first time there). About 4 hours before we started playing the owner of the other place sent us a text saying that because we were playing the new place he is not honoring our 2024 shows but is still letting us play out the 2023 schedule at his place (4 more shows through December). The new place we played is about 7 miles from his club.  This is the same guy who encouraged us to play another club about 5 miles from his club in the hopes of our band building a crowd in the area that we'd then pull over to his club.  So we can play a club 5 miles away but not 7 miles away.   WTF???

 

P.S.  we play there next weekend and now nobody in the band wants to play the show knowing the situation that we have with him.  Up until the text message he's been a huge supporter of the band.  We did steal about 30 people who normally go to his club but instead went to our show but how would he know that when he sent the text message 4 hours before we started playing?  Now we have to deal with bar owner drama ...

Chances are if you just be nonchalant about the 2024 cancelations, when 2024 comes around he'll want you back or maybe there will be a new manager. Those manager positions only last a couple if years anyways. You don't gain much besides fleeting satisfaction by flipping him the bird. 

[o0Ampy0o]

On 8/12/2023 at 3:24 PM, CowboyNQ said:

 

No one was drinking on the job, and noone was pretending to get drunk.  
 

I think if we were performing West Side Story, we might bring a fake firearm on stage.

 

You were not doing a biographical play on Broadway.  

 

As a tribute band do you cover the look or just perform the music? 

 

Pretending anything with a convincing prop is more likely to be taken for real than not outside the context of an actual play performed in an actual theater by actors and not musicians. 

 

I suspect most people would consider a member of a tribute band to be a musician rather than an actor unless it is an Elvis tribute where you would be an impersonator.

 

I do not associate drinking alcohol from a bottle on stage with Van Halen although I know Eddie was drunk for entire shows during certain periods of his career and his body damage from alcohol abuse was well known. Point being you could skip that element and be the greatest Van Halen tribute band look and all.

 

 

[o0Ampy0o]

5 hours ago, JazzPiano88 said:

 

That makes sense.  Here in the USA, we still have all manner of people casting judgments on people's personal habits involving alcohol, where, as you may have read, we once banned it (and then un-banniated it) in our constitution.   Lots of people here are still quite judgemental regarding its consumption. 

 

Consideration of health, public safety and the burden of cost everyone assumes have been growing concerns, morality somewhat less so. But the morality crowd gets a lot of attention.

[Bill H.]

6 hours ago, o0Ampy0o said:

 

 

I do not associate drinking alcohol from a bottle on stage with Van Halen although I know Eddie was drunk for entire shows during certain periods of his career and his body damage from alcohol abuse was well known. Point being you could skip that element and be the greatest Van Halen tribute band look and all.

 

 

 

I don't want to comment too much because I know Australia is a different market than here in the US. But with Eddie's well known issues with alcoholism, drinking from stage like that (whether prop or not) would probably send murmurs through the room - with some asking "Are they really going there?" 

 

I wouldn't hitch my wagon too solidly to this one CowboyNQ. If it's not included, I don't think anyone is going to miss it. 

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

9 hours ago, Baldwin Funster said:

Chances are if you just be nonchalant about the 2024 cancelations, when 2024 comes around he'll want you back or maybe there will be a new manager. Those manager positions only last a couple if years anyways. You don't gain much besides fleeting satisfaction by flipping him the bird. 

That's exactly my approach.  If we do the 4 remaining shows through December most likely he'll have us also do the 2024 shows.  He texted me this morning and he wants me to call him today, so I'll have a better understanding of what his issue is by the end of the day.  Just find the whole situation strange and the last thing I need at this point in my life is bar owner drama from someone whose been a big supporter of the band.

[HammondDave]

As much as I dislike bar owners and managers, I have to agree that what you guys did was extremely unprofessional. I work in the theatre and if anyone wants to use an unapproved prop on stage it must be cleared by the stage manager, and of course, the Director. Although this is an extreme analogy, this reminds me of the jerks from Great White not getting approval to use pyro at the infamous tragic show at The Station decades ago, with the resulting fire killing hundreds of young people in the process.   
 

Due to this and many other examples of moronic behavior, these performers have bred an atmosphere of reckless behavior and mistrust which affects all of us. 

[Reezekeys]

53 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

He texted me this morning and he wants me to call him today, so I'll have a better understanding of what his issue is by the end of the day.

 

Regarding your show at the other club 7 miles away, how close in time was that show to a show at your first club? "Proximity clauses" that include # of days are a standard part of contracts, usually not for bars or other smaller establishments though (what bar does contracts at all? None in my experience) - but from your own admission you did pull people to this other place, so I can understand him not being happy. To be clear, I see no problem playing local gigs at places in the same geographic area, provided they're spaced far enough apart - that would be for your good as much as the bar, I think. What are you supposed to do, start driving hours to each gig so you won't offend a bar owner - someone who was gonna take away a year of gigs with a text? I have a feeling you guys are gonna come to an understanding. At the end of the day (or night in this case!), it's what's in the cash registers that count. If you're making money for the place, you'll likely reach some accomodation.

 

I'm not sure if this is typical of AWB contracts but I was recently told of a gig that had a "90/90" clause - we could not do another gig within 90 miles of the place less than 90 days before the date. I think this was a Live Nation-promoted gig. Makes sense - they pretty much call the shots now!

[Stokely]

I'm not sure how often DLR Van Halen (ie, not Van Hagar) had bottles on stage, but they definitely had one for the one show I saw on the 1984 show.  Who knows what was in it but based on the percentage of actual lyrics from the songs DLR sang (not high) I'd say it probably wasn't tea.

[Docbop]

13 minutes ago, Stokely said:

I'm not sure how often DLR Van Halen (ie, not Van Hagar) had bottles on stage, but they definitely had one for the one show I saw on the 1984 show.  Who knows what was in it but based on the percentage of actual lyrics from the songs DLR sang (not high) I'd say it probably wasn't tea.

 

Back in the days when you could track a VH tour by the cities with big herpes outbreaks. 

[Zalman Stern]

Jack Daniels is to American whiskey as Fosters is to Australian beer...

 

-Z-

 

[o0Ampy0o]

2 hours ago, Zalman Stern said:

Jack Daniels is to American whiskey as Fosters is to Australian beer...

 

-Z-

 

Have not been there but I hear Australians detest Fosters. The idea that it is the Australian's choice is a matter of effective marketing. 

[jazzpiano88]

3 hours ago, Zalman Stern said:

Jack Daniels is to American whiskey as Fosters is to Australian beer...

Can you explain what you're intent is with your analogy?

 

Top 20 Best Selling Whiskeys in the USA

• Jack Daniel's American Whiskey.
• Crown Royal Canadian Whisky.
• Fireball Canadian Whisky.
• Jim Beam Bourbon Whiskey.
• Jameson Irish Whiskey

 

The Best-Selling Beers (Courtesy of IRI Australia)

• Great Northern
• Carlton Dry
• XXXX Gold
• Coopers
• Victoria Bitter
• Corona
• Tooheys
• Hahn
• Pure Blonde
• Asahi

[bill5]

40 minutes ago, JazzPiano88 said:

Can you explain what you're intent is with your analogy?

 

Wondering that myself. I think it's meant as a snub to JD - whatever - I rarely drink hard liquor and don't pretend to be a connoisseur, but as far as I know, JD is pretty highly regarded by more than just its "fan boys," though it might not be as good as Crown or some others. Plus Crown comes in the cool cloth pouch.  

[mate stubb]

More into bourbon myself, although I enjoy a Templeton Rye also.

[o0Ampy0o]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:32 AM, MathOfInsects said:

It's Fuckwit's liquor license (and job) on the line, so I can't fault him for checking. But it sounds like he could use some lessons in interpersonal communication. You were both primed to see the worst in one another. That seems right in line with a band made in EVH's honor, so in the end maybe we can thank Fuckwit for keeping you guys on brand.

Good luck with the project!

 

There may be something there. Maybe not.

 

 

We the band brought a bottle and were thinkin'

Our act was a tribute to a helluva drinker

Fuckwit believing it was truth in what he saw

Confronted us for breaking the law

 

T'was Fuckwit's license and job on the line

So we can't fault him for checkin'

But it seemed like he could use some lessons

In communication we reckoned

 

We both were primed to see the worst in the other

Right in line, a band made in Eddie's honor

For keeping our Eddie band on brand

In the end we can thank Mister Fuckwit

 

T'was Fuckwit's license and job on the line

(DLR yell:)  AAYY OOHH AAYY OOHH EEE YOHHH!

T'was Fuckwit's license and job on the line

(DLR yell:)  AAYY OOHH AAYY OOHH EEE YOHHH!

T'was Fuckwit's license and job on the line

(DLR yell:)  AAYY OOHH AAYY OOHH EEE YOHHH!

T'was Fuckwit's license and job on the line

(DLR yell:)  AAYY OOHH AAYY OOHH EEE YOHHH!

[MathOfInsects]

7 hours ago, Zalman Stern said:

Jack Daniels is to American whiskey as Fosters is to Australian beer...

 

-Z-

 

“Jack Daniels. Australian for beer.”

[CowboyNQ]

I must say I’m surprised and delighted at the volume, humour and intensity of replies to what was for me a late night vent.  This thread has most certainly achieved its aim of making me feel a whole lot less mentally wound up about what occurred.  The power of chatting to your mates, in action.  A sincere thanks everyone, and I do mean everyone.

 

To save time I’ll try to respond to a lot of thoughts in one hit.

 

1.  I’m getting a vibe that it’s an issue in the States (or maybe some states), but alcohol on stage in Australia is very normal.  Believe it or not, in my country it’s more culturally acceptable to drink than not to drink.

 

 2.  That said, we still should have cleared the prop.  It didn’t occur to us at the time it would cause a drama.  The issue wasn’t the alcohol, it was the fact that the manager thought we had bought it off premises.  Definitely our error.

 

3.  My issue is not with the being questioned (although it’s somewhat surprising).  It’s with the manner in which the inquisition was conducted.  The only reason the whole thing didn’t escalate into something really ugly is because we refused to be goaded into an argument and were good boys.  Probably because we weren’t drinking, hehe.

 

4. I wouldn’t characterise West Side Story as a biographical play.  It’s more of a modern musical allegory based upon Romeo and Juliet.  Well worth watching and has some brilliant music and lyrics.  I will warn the squeamish that it is rather intense.

 

5.  I think it’s been lost (on some) in translation, but VH bassist Michael Anthony did consume JD on stage, and even played a JD branded bass.  The prop isn’t a hill to die on, but I know If we stick with it and have the common sense to warn bar managers in advance, we’ll have zero issues.  I’ll leave the decision whether or not we continue with our little bottle of trouble up to the “tea” totaller as it’s his prop.

 

6.  No one in Australia drinks Fosters.  I wouldn’t even know how to acquire it without taking a flight to the UK.  To be fair though I don’t really like Jack Daniel’s either.  I kind of like it more now after this chat.

 

7.  I’m not familiar with Great White and their pyrotechnical mishaps, but I can assure all that a) we brought no flammable goods on stage (apart  from incendiary guitar playing) and b) we most certainly did not behave like jerks.  I’m very proud of the way our lead singer handled the situation.  He is a champion of conciliatory and restrained behaviour, despite having had more than a little cause to be upset, given the manner in which he was communicated with.

 

I’ve never understood why some people default to aggression, abuse and use of pejorative when dealing with others without first seeking to understand what is actually going on.  
 

Maybe I’ve led a charmed life, but I have found in the overwhelming majority of cases if you give people the chance to prove they’re decent human beings and have no ill intent, they come up to the mark.  Unfortunately our friend on Saturday night wasn’t keen on accepting any olive branches.

[HammondDave]

13 hours ago, CowboyNQ said:

 

7.  I’m not familiar with Great White and their pyrotechnical mishaps, but I can assure all that a) we brought no flammable goods on stage (apart  from incendiary guitar playing) and b) we most certainly did not behave like jerks.  I’m very proud of the way our lead singer handled the situation.  He is a champion of conciliatory and restrained behaviour, despite having had more than a little cause to be upset, given the manner in which he was communicated with.

I was not trying to equate what happened to our colleague with such a horrific event, I am just trying to expand our awareness of the pressures that club owners and managers are under to keep a safe environment for the audience and employees.  (And that may be the first and last time I defend a club owner or manager)

 

Every live entertainer or technician should be familiar with what happened with Great White at The Station.  I show the very disturbing and graphic video (located on YouTube) to all my stage design students to illustrate two things: Always clear anything that may be dangerous or controversial with the management of the venue before you do something stupid like this, and whether you are in a night club, restaurant, or any other public place, always know where the fire exits are.
 

The band’s road manager went ahead a lit the pyro even though the club manager told him that pyro was not allowed.  The ceiling’s highly flammable  insulation caught fire after about 15 seconds of continuous pyro cannons blasting against it. There was no fire suppression (sprinklers) because it was an old building and its current “safety systems” were grandfathered in. Many of the safety regulations that are now in public buildings are the direct result of this tragedy. 

 

But the real lesson here is to learn your escape routes. In the real-time video a lot of people (100) died (including the guitar player) because most of them thought that the only way out was where they came in. The crush of people trying to pass through that one exit contributed to many deaths. 

 

So just be safe and please look around for ALL possible exits whenever you are are out in a public place, clubs included. Unfortunately, we have additional deadly safety hazards nowadays. 
 

[HSS]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:19 AM, Reezekeys said:

This all reminds me that I remember hearing the Stones had a bar set up on stage on one of their tours. And what about the "barf buckets" in New Orleans? Is that an old wive's tale or were those for real?

Sorry for going OT, but barf buckets and tubs were real in some of the joints in New Orleans when I lived there during the 80's.  I know because on one ill-fated night of debauchery I partook of one at a joint called "Nick's" (?). 

[Stokely]

There's a ton of people who hate themselves, hate their lives, whatever, and just get some little satisfaction out of foisting misery on others.

I'm sure there's a few who are twisted enough to actually enjoy it but I think it's mostly just projection.   As someone who has helped one person through a grueling multi-year INS application, and another through our "justice" system, I got my fill and then some of those kind of people.  Pretty close to nothing but in fact.   Felt like I was an extra in Brazil (the movie) most of the time.