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The Future of MPN?


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55 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Not to harp on this, but I do not have an upper nav bar for the site on either my computer or my phone.

 

EDIT: I just tried all four themes and don't have a top-nav with any. I'm on Chrome and switched to Safari and don't have one with Safari either, with any of the four themes. 

 

I can see from your screen shot that you have one, so I know it must exist for some people. But I just wanted to pass on that my (and probably others') view of the site does not include that. If I want to find that link, I have to use the three-line drop-down menu on top-right and go looking for it there.

I have no idea why that is.  🤔

 

I see the top nav bar in every browser on my computer in all of the themes.  

 

It does show up on my iPad, but only when I have it in horizontal orientation.  If I have it vertical, it shows up in the three-line drop down in the upper right hand corner.  iPhone, it’s only available with the three-line drop down.

 

I just checked the Menu Manager in the Admin CP as well.  It appears to be correctly enabled - the fact that you can see it in the three-line drop down confirms that.  Some of the menu items (like the Blogs) are not enabled for Guests, but I’m assuming you’re logged in.

 

dB

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:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

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5 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

I have no idea why that is.  

 

I see the top nav bar in every browser on my computer in all of the themes.  It does not show up on the phone.  It does show up on my iPad, but only when I have it in horizontal orientation.

 

dB

Yeah, weird. Whatever the reason, though, I just wanted to raise the likelihood that there are other folks, like me, who won't see any link to donate unless they happen to hit that three-line drop-down menu and notice that it's in that list of options. I guess if we're the minor few it's not important, but there's no way to know if your view is the more common, or if mine is. 

I'm wondering about the idea of a sticky at the top of each forum that says "Tip MPN" and then gives the options in post, in addition to your nav link. No replies or anything, just the top thread in each board. Just a thought...

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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6 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

I'm wondering about the idea of a sticky at the top of each forum that says "Tip MPN" and then gives the options in post, in addition to your nav link. No replies or anything, just the top thread in each board. Just a thought...

 

I try to keep the stickies to a minimum; plus, you’d be surprised how many people do not read those. 😳

 

Also, we’d have to put one in each forum.  A Global announcement would probably be a better way to go.  I’ll play around with that…

 

I’m hoping the banners we’ll post (once we finish them) will help with visibility of the “Tip Jar”.

 

dB

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:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

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48 minutes ago, Dave Bryce said:

 

I figured letting people set their own level was better because it's totally flexible. :idk:

 

dB

 

 

When I use a tip jar (which is rare) I stock it with whatever I think is appropriate for the venue. When you pay at a restaurant, in fact anywhere these days, there are options on how much to tip. It’s easier and more convenient for the patron to just tap a % figure.
 

In this case, you could ask for $5/month, $10/month, $15/month, Other Amt, and 1X Payment and not offend anyone, while making it easier. 
 

Just my 2/5/10 cents 😉
 

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Here for the gear.

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I’m not understanding why you guys are suggesting that I set up all these separate dedicated values.  Sorry for being dense. 😶

 

Shopify does not give me the option to set up different values for a single “product”.  Each one of these values would have to be a separate “product” with its own listing.  To me, that’s more complicated…not less.

 

Is there something wrong with having it set up so that anyone can enter any value they want?  :idk:

 

dB

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:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

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Please keep us international folks in mind.  From my POV, anything that can be paid with a credit card is best (as opposed to transfers).  

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23 hours ago, Dave Bryce said:

In the upper nav bar, there's now a drop down menu called MPN Tip Jar that provides links to both the Patreon page and the MPN Store Donations page.

 

The more I thought about this, the more I'm wondering if calling the drop down menu “MPN Tip Jar” might be too vague, and if I could improve on the menu listings as well.

 

So…for now, the drop down menu is called Donations, and the menu items are Monthly Donations and One-Time Donations.  That feels clearer to me.  Not sure I'll keep those...after all, "Tip Jar" does speak directly to musicians.

 

Re: the banner: since we now have two separate places to contribute, a conventional banner won’t work - you can only embed one URL in a banner….so I made a pretty simple text box and placed it right under the leaderboard banner in the Main TOC page as well as on the Topics Listing page for each forum.  

 

dB

 

 

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:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

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2 hours ago, Dave Bryce said:

I have no idea why that is.  🤔

 

I see the top nav bar in every browser on my computer in all of the themes.  

 

It does show up on my iPad, but only when I have it in horizontal orientation.  If I have it vertical, it shows up in the three-line drop down in the upper right hand corner.  iPhone, it’s only available with the three-line drop down.

 

I just checked the Menu Manager in the Admin CP as well.  It appears to be correctly enabled - the fact that you can see it in the three-line drop down confirms that.  Some of the menu items (like the Blogs) are not enabled for Guests, but I’m assuming you’re logged in.

 

dB

At the risk of making an obvious point--the display of a so-called "hamburger" or tri-gram menu icon versus a horizontal nav bar is generally a toggle in the site scripting, governed by the width of the view port. If you expand the browser window horizontally, at some point the hamburger icon will disappear and the nav bar will pop into view. Shrink the browser window horizontally, the opposite occurs. 

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14 minutes ago, slowtraveler said:

At the risk of making an obvious point--the display of a so-called "hamburger" or tri-gram menu icon versus a horizontal nav bar is generally a toggle in the site scripting, governed by the width of the view port. If you expand the browser window horizontally, at some point the hamburger icon will disappear and the nav bar will pop into view. Shrink the browser window horizontally, the opposite occurs. 

That may be, and it did occur to me, but there is no width on my monitor that allows that to occur--and it will never occur on a tablet or phone. So the consequence (people not seeing the links embedded in the hamburger, which seems like a junk-food Island of Dr. Moreau), is the same. Meaning...the risk still stands that many folks won't ever see that sixth-link-down-in-the-drop-down-under-the-hamburger. Since the goal is for the greatest possible number of people to see it, it's worth considering. 

Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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2 hours ago, Dave Bryce said:

Is there something wrong with having it set up so that anyone can enter any value they want?  :idk:

Nothing wrong with that – it's just that if your dollar amount expectations in the "tip jar" are clear, people will respond to it. If you don't broadcast what your expectations are, then you run the risk of being underfunded. The tier amounts show your least and best expectations. But... whatever.

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Here for the gear.

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1 hour ago, drawback said:

Nothing wrong with that – it's just that if your dollar amount expectations in the "tip jar" are clear, people will respond to it.

 

Not sure I follow you, brother. 🤔

 

My band’s tip jar is just marked Tip Jar.  I don’t think I’ve ever had a dollar amount expectation. We get $1s, $5s, $10s, $20s…are we missing something?  Are bands expected to mark the tip jar with the amount of tip they want?  Do you put up more than one tip jar, each one with a different amount?  :idk:

 

I’m not busting yer chops here - I actually don’t understand.  

 

Besides, I changed the name of the drop down menu from Tip Jar to Donations.  Does that make a difference?

 

 

1 hour ago, drawback said:

If you don't broadcast what your expectations are, then you run the risk of being underfunded.

 

 

These days we always get underfunded, especially what the bar owners pay us. 😳🙄

 

FWIW, I don’t have any dollar amount expectation here.  I’m sincerely hoping that people pay on their own, based on what they think their experience at MPN is worth.  

 

From my POV, setting a dollar amount expectation may be limiting what people want to donate.  It’s like the restaurants that fix the tip amount at 18% when they have big parties.  I think that’s a bit short-sighted - I usually tip 20%. 😎

 

dB

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:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

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Yeah, that banner is unmissable. Nice.

I never give more than I meant just because someone plopped that number in front of me, and think the "buy as many one-dollar donations as you want" is the simplest option. 

All good stuff. I hope it helps. 

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Now out! "Mind the Gap," a 24-song album of new material.
www.joshweinstein.com

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2 hours ago, Dave Bryce said:

Not sure I follow you, brother. 🤔

 

My band’s tip jar is just marked Tip Jar.  I don’t think I’ve ever had a dollar amount expectation. We get $1s, $5s, $10s, $20s…are we missing something?  Are bands expected to mark the tip jar with the amount of tip they want?  Do you put up more than one tip jar, each one with a different amount?  :idk:

 

I’m not busting yer chops here - I actually don’t understand.  

When you put amounts ($5, $10, $20, $100, $500 etc) - it makes it easier/faster for folks to contribute.  Folks like it when it's easier 😁👍.  They don't have to think about it, their instinct will guide them towards the amount they are comfortable with, and they just check the box... boom done.  Forcing them to write in an amount, now they have to think about it. You could always include an open box for folks that like to do the extra work and tailor their donation.

 

And if you're still on the fence, try piloting it both ways.

 

Edit:  Happy to contribute, and thank you db for your incredible stewardship of this excellent community!

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Some music I've recorded and played over the years with a few different bands

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OK so I've just bought multiple $1 donations from the MPN store. It's fine - the only slight issue is that I have to add them to the cart one by one. There's no way of saying: I want this product ("$1 donation"), quantity = 10. You have to add one to the cart, 10 times.

 

Thanks for doing this @dB I've been wanting to give something back for a while now, without wading into Patreon waters.

 

Regards, Mike.

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7 hours ago, TommyRude said:

When you put amounts ($5, $10, $20, $100, $500 etc) - it makes it easier/faster for folks to contribute.  Folks like it when it's easier 😁👍.  They don't have to think about it, their instinct will guide them towards the amount they are comfortable with, and they just check the box... boom done.  Forcing them to write in an amount, now they have to think about it. You could always include an open box for folks that like to do the extra work and tailor their donation.

 

I get that.  I might argue that if there are four or five choices, folks still have to think about which one they wanna check off.  😊

 

The multiple amounts thing reminds me of those automated tip prompts that are so prevalent in so many places these days.  I admit, I’m not a big fan.  It‘s just not the way I think - I’d rather take the time to set the amount myself based on what I think the service is worth.  Truth be told, I feel respected being given the option to make that choice.

 

I think it was the Tip Jar reference that was throwing me the most.  Made me wonder if my band should be doing something better with ours…

 

 

7 hours ago, TommyRude said:

Happy to contribute, and thank you db for your incredible stewardship of this excellent community!

 

My pleasure, Tommy!  Thank you for taking the time to hang, brother! 👊🏼

 

dB

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:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

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10 hours ago, Dave Bryce said:

FWIW, I don’t have any dollar amount expectation here.

I’ve been assuming all along there must be a budget.

 

10 hours ago, Dave Bryce said:

From my POV, setting a dollar amount expectation may be limiting what people want to donate.  It’s like the restaurants that fix the tip amount at 18% when they have big parties.  I think that’s a bit short-sighted - I usually tip 20%.

Exactly my point. When I stock my own jar at the beginning of a piano gig, I’ll put a ten in there (if I think the patrons frequenting the place are higher rollers it’s a twenty). Then the patrons have a clue, and I don’t get anything less; often I get more. 

 

Back to set dollar amounts, as Tommy stated it perfectly above, when I see a tip suggestion on a restaurant credit/debit card machine (15% - 20%-25%) I’ll almost always select 20% but if the service is exceptional they get at least 25 or I’ll select Other and give more. But it’s never less than 15.

 

Sorry to veer off on the topic… my marketing instincts were awakened. Just having a newly designed Tip Jar (which I think is perfect for a musicians’ forum) is a step in the right direction.
 

However you want to do it works for me. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Rod

Here for the gear.

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28 minutes ago, drawback said:

I’ve been assuming all along there must be a budget.

 

Not really.. The more we get, the more we can do.  For example, the only thing limiting the amount of reviews we can do right now is how much we have to pay reviewers.  Another example would be hiring someone to do some sort of PR for MPN that would help increase awareness of the site, drive new membership, etc.

 

 

28 minutes ago, drawback said:

When I stock my own jar at the beginning of a piano gig, I’ll put a ten in there (if I think the patrons frequenting the place are higher rollers it’s a twenty). Then the patrons have a clue, and I don’t get anything less; often I get more. 

 

Ahhh…there’s the disconnect. I’ve never done a solo piano gig - at least not one where a tip jar was appropriate - so the concept of stocking the jar to let other patrons know what the average patron is tipping isn’t something I’ve ever done.  With a band tip jar, folks seem to always have their $ in hand before they approach the stage, so I wonder how well stocking the jar would work in that scenario.

 

Thanks for clarifying!

 

dB

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:keys:==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <==:rawk:

 

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I've had a few thoughts as this thread has gone on and haven't quite gotten around to articulating them all. On the whole, however, I'm so very glad to finally see the Patreon get some real traction and have other methods of contributing for those who, for whatever reason, would rather have another avenue.

 

dB, as you're well aware, it's basically impossible to achieve true consensus here, or anywhere on the internet. I think the offerings we've settled on for now offer sufficient opportunities for folks to get involved in the manner they see fit. Could there still be tweaks? Possibly, but maybe once we go a year or so with the current model, we can re-assess once the next fundraising thread comes along.

 

So yes, let's please have an annual/biannual/biennual thread to remind folks to give and bring newbies/returning members up to speed on the new configuration and the importance of giving. I think the overall message of the thread is that most members value the community first and, when encouraged to do so, will gladly contribute to keep it around.

 

7 hours ago, stoken6 said:

OK so I've just bought multiple $1 donations from the MPN store. It's fine - the only slight issue is that I have to add them to the cart one by one. There's no way of saying: I want this product ("$1 donation"), quantity = 10. You have to add one to the cart, 10 times.

 

Thanks for doing this @dB I've been wanting to give something back for a while now, without wading into Patreon waters.

 

Regards, Mike.

 

Mike, if you add one donation to your cart, and then view your cart, you can adjust the quantity of donations there (at least on my browser). Fairly common in online commerce, although I agree it would ease any confusion to be able to specify quantity on the product page as well.

 

Anyway, thanks again dB for all you do. Shoutout to Jim Quinn, Craig, and any and all other moderators/admins/volunteers who've helped keep the lights on over the years. We're all indebted to you and I'm glad we're able to have conversations like this to keep the greatest little corner of the internet alive and well. :cheers:

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Just did the donation thing via PayPal, it all went smoothly. Thanks for setting up the "one-time" option, dB.

 

I look at it as playing a gig for this place. :keys2::rawk:

 

I don't do any social media, except here, for all of the reasons everyone has mentioned, but mostly for the wonderful friendships I have made over the years.

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- George Bernard Shaw

 

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1 hour ago, Dave Bryce said:

What is?  The text box about donating?  What's weird about it?

 

As previously mentioned, I can't run a banner - text box is pretty much the only solution. :idk:

 

dB

No, sorry I should have explained along with OT.   I got on the featured page of MPN and there's no KC; just the three shown above.   Maybe they are rotated in and out.

 

EDIT: Oh, I see now it's part of the structure of the home page.    Sorry Nevermind.

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13 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

It's so odd how different all our views of the site are. I've never seen that page that JazzPiano88 just posted. 

 

Same here I just save the link to Keyboard Corner so I don't see anything else on the MPN website. 

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