Wanted: A Keyboard with integrated “Computer” for loading whatever sounds I want to buy

[sam6599643]

18 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

Not to mention the fact that after 18 months the onboard computer will be nearing obsolescence and newer hq sounds won't be backward compatible with your 2 year old KeyComPuterBoard.

Not necessarily. 

 

Something basic like Rasperry Pi board in a replaceable module, just focused on basic synthesis and samples, would be functionally capable for longer than most midi keyboards last. And for as long as some synths are used.

[D. Gauss]

keyboard of choice + ipad and a roll of this. done.

 

 

[ElmerJFudd]

5 hours ago, sam6599643 said:

Not necessarily. 

 

Something basic like Rasperry Pi board in a replaceable module, just focused on basic synthesis and samples, would be functionally capable for longer than most midi keyboards last. And for as long as some synths are used.

Korg is throwing rasberry Pi’s in synths at will these days.  
 

Of course ideally  the end user would want macOS or Windows on such a box to simply and easily install all the software and AU/VST instruments and FX they already own on their laptops and desktops onto it. No one wants to buy and install special conversion or wrapper software to get their stuff to work or buy special versions/licenses of software compiled by the developer to support the platform.  

[Radagast]

22 hours ago, marczellm said:

Yes that's what I thought too. Look up the OpenLabs Miko and Neko workstation keyboards. The company went out of business.

 Victor Wong tried to start another company, Music Computing.  They produced the Studioblade.  I don’t think it’s still around.  The Studioblade was supposed to have upgradeable hardware to keep it from becoming obsolete.

 

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2011/01/13/the-music-computing-studioblade-88-keyboard-production-workstation/

[Reezekeys]

21 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

Not to mention the fact that after 18 months the onboard computer will be nearing obsolescence and newer hq sounds won't be backward compatible with your 2 year old KeyComPuterBoard.

I'm not so sure of this. My 10-year-old MacBook Pro is doing just fine for any gig I do. I have a separate "gigs" partition frozen on Mojave with plugins that may not be the latest versions but give me all I need. I suspect I'll be OK until the hardware just dies on me.

[kenheeter]

I suggest a Numa X and an ipad. The Numa is an excellent midi controller with a nice action and supports audio over midi. This way you have some very good hardware sounds to fall back on when the computer fails.

 

[Baggypants]

On 4/22/2023 at 1:11 PM, sam6599643 said:

Not necessarily. 

 

Something basic like Rasperry Pi board in a replaceable module, just focused on basic synthesis and samples, would be functionally capable for longer than most midi keyboards last. And for as long as some synths are used.

https://zynthian.org it's been brought up before. It has a sequencer and a looper on top of what you suggest, but not built into a keyboard, although people have.

[TechEverlasting]

I think the closest thing to what you want is a keyboard such as the Roland RD2000 that has a built-in Audio/MIDI interface.   I've had great results with using the RD2000 with MainStage.   Just one USBC to Host cable handles all audio/MIDI connections, I use the RD2000's audio outputs and can integrate the RD2000's internal Piano, Rhodes and other sounds into my Concerts.   I can even pick which of the RD2000's two stereo outputs MainStage comes out of, in case I want to process internal and computer sound sources separately.  I'm using an M1 MacBook Air, all I need is a very light projector stand to hold it.

 

I believe the same thing will work on the Kurzweil K2700 and the Yamaha Montage and ModXs.

[Paul Woodward]

41 minutes ago, TechEverlasting said:

I think the closest thing to what you want is a keyboard such as the Roland RD2000 that has a built-in Audio/MIDI interface.   I've had great results with using the RD2000 with MainStage.   Just one USBC to Host cable handles all audio/MIDI connections, I use the RD2000's audio outputs and can integrate the RD2000's internal Piano, Rhodes and other sounds into my Concerts.   I can even pick which of the RD2000's two stereo outputs MainStage comes out of, in case I want to process internal and computer sound sources separately.  I'm using an M1 MacBook Air, all I need is a very light projector stand to hold it.

 

I believe the same thing will work on the Kurzweil K2700 and the Yamaha Montage and ModXs.

I believe the RD88 would give much of what is needed in a much smaller/lighter form factor 🙂

[TechEverlasting]

3 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

I believe the RD88 would give much of what is needed in a much smaller/lighter form factor 🙂

 

Indeed, the RD88 has what seems to be the same Audio/MIDI interface and will work with just one cable connected.   What you lose versus the more expensive RD2000 is the two sets of stereo audio outputs, some of the sounds (athough the demos I've heard of the RD88 sound great) and the option to add the new German Steinway V-Piano.   Also the RD-88 requires a wall-wart which I prefer to avoid.

 

[Docbop]

I think this threads proves a product like the OP wants could never work,  everyone expects it to be their idea of right and not something general enough to sell to the masses.       I keep coming back to my original thought after reading the original post.... all this just to not have to carry a laptop and a controller board.      

[Jose EB5AGV]

On 4/22/2023 at 4:26 PM, Radagast said:

 Victor Wong tried to start another company, Music Computing.  They produced the Studioblade.  I don’t think it’s still around.  The Studioblade was supposed to have upgradeable hardware to keep it from becoming obsolete.

 

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2011/01/13/the-music-computing-studioblade-88-keyboard-production-workstation/

 

That was in 2011... But they kept launching new versions, as this 2014 one:

 

https://www.synthtopia.com/content/2014/03/13/music-computing-intros-gen-4-studioblade-controlblade-workstations/

 

Not cheap though!

 

Jose

[AUSSIEKEYS]

11 hours ago, Baggypants said:

https://zynthian.org it's been brought up before. It has a sequencer and a looper on top of what you suggest, but not built into a keyboard, although people have.

 

Thanks Baggy. That really grabs me.

 

If it works like a Sipario but with the sounds onboard rather than running to different midi modules or keyboards my curiosity is peaked. 

 

Says its out of stock.

 

Being in Aussie and shipping now is expensive i find the box size of a kit as opposed to the box size of a finished item to be a worry for shipping costs.

 

Especially as the kit is a plug together kit i wonder if they supplied a factory assembled kit and sending in smaller box offsets the costs of assembling. The assembly is only plug together so quick to achieve making box smaller for shipping.

 

Ill keep an eye on this as i had wondered about building something from components before but its already done here

 

Edit: after reading more on their website they are introducing a version 5 which is physically bigger than the now discontinued version 4. 

 

Shame V4 is not contiued alongside as its size makes it better for locating it a top of a keyboard.

 

Version 5 adds heaps of buttons which at first glance i thought yee haa a 10 digit keypad but alas no. But I guess you could reconfigure it to operate as that? A 10 digit keypad would make the extra size palatable. 

[cassdad]

As the OP, I perhaps was not clear with my vision:  Yes, I want one hardware “keyboard” with all the sounds I want built-in.  I do not want the extra items (computer, cables, etc), but also do not want the associated risk of unreliability, nor the sheer time and hassle required to set it all up, and then the complicated hassle to control it all.

 

But more importantly, I dislike the fact that I have to choose Yamaha sounds, or Roland sounds, or Korg sounds, or Nord sounds, etc…..   or Pianoteq sounds, or other AU sounds.  In short, as far as my limited knowledge base goes, I can’t easily play Roland sounds only using my Yamaha keyboard, and vice-versa.  And even if I get a MIDI controller, I can’t play Yamaha sounds without their hardware, or Roland, etc.  Seems part of the business model is to use their respective sounds to sell their respective hardware.

 

The hardware is always dictating what sounds I am limited to.  And every soundset has some limitations, and some crappy sounds that I don’t want or need.  Perhaps I’m asking for standardization of sounds, separating the sound business from the hardware business.

 

I understand this will likely never come to pass, as many have pointed out.  And I know there would be trade-offs.  And I acknowledged that it was just a wish.

[Paul Woodward]

Aside from a new keybed or recording/performance/interface feature, each manufacturer sells their boards on some ‘unique’ aspect of sound creation or manipulation, few are purely sample based. They are never going to license that to another manufacturer as they would likely go out of business. Software on computer or tablet is as near as we will get to that in the foreseeable future.

[TechEverlasting]

9 hours ago, cassdad said:

As the OP, I perhaps was not clear with my vision:  Yes, I want one hardware “keyboard” with all the sounds I want built-in.  I do not want the extra items (computer, cables, etc), but also do not want the associated risk of unreliability, nor the sheer time and hassle required to set it all up, and then the complicated hassle to control it all.

 

 

It's interesting that you mention reliability concerns.   My favorite aspect of the RD2000/MainStage rig I was discussing is that if anything happens to the computer - a crash, power supply issue or whatever - all I have to do is press the "One Touch Piano" button on the RD2000 and I'm back up in about one second - no cables to swap.   It's easy to access other sounds as well, you can even create a backup set of Scenes or Programs.

 

I would be a bit worried about reliability playing a custom built keyboard entirely dependent on a built-in computer.

[yannis D]

11 hours ago, cassdad said:

 

 

But more importantly, I dislike the fact that I have to choose Yamaha sounds, or Roland sounds, or Korg sounds, or Nord sounds, etc…..   or Pianoteq sounds, or other AU sounds.  In short, as far as my limited knowledge base goes, I can’t easily play Roland sounds only using my Yamaha keyboard, and vice-versa.  And even if I get a MIDI controller, I can’t play Yamaha sounds without their hardware, or Roland, etc.  Seems part of the business model is to use their respective sounds to sell their respective hardware.

 

 

I don't want to get too political, but this is the basis of modern capitalism. The moment they will give up their favorite products in a package containing their opponent's products as well, they're dead

[MathOfInsects]

I made this thread six or eight months ago. It seems like a no-brainer to me. The response was similar, and similarly puzzling (to me). Then the Akai MPC 61 Key came out and made it clear that such a thing is just not ready for prime time as a performance board. Load times that seem minor while sitting at home launching VST's, are terminal on a gig. I think the hardware-to-software-on-other-hardware routine is going to be the tip, and the thing that will improve will be ways to interact with the "external" host of choice. Integrated mounting, one-cable or dock connection.

[stoken6]

10 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

the hardware-to-software-on-other-hardware routine is going to be the tip, and the thing that will improve will be ways to interact with the "external" host of choice. Integrated mounting, one-cable or dock connection.

This. It allows a manufacturer to compete and disrupt in the controller space.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Thethirdapple]

How many workstations and arrangers were sold, my guess is ALOT. The big 3 are still making them… My sense is that we are getting really close to having your idea be a reality… especially with the pico/andrino based projects. I could see a workstation, similar to the ones most of us may have, but with a small cpu board being swapped out every few years to keep up with the times…

 

Better yet, the cpu board could be a usb key, which exist today, capable of fully running linux/windows… bundled with a software DAW and sound banks/audiounits(vst’s)… so the only actual hardware is something like the Osmose with a usb port and a small touch screen.

 

I would love a Korg M3 style opensource controller module which could be easily be integrated with a keybed of my choosing! if we keep going on like this, I hope someone with the capability to design a new product, datamines this thread and does it!!! 

But to be really honest, i do this already within my rig, sure its a few pieces of gear as opposed to a single turnkey type of device… so would I get one? Most likely not, having an iPad, with a vst host and a really wonderful fully weighted keyboard and some midi cables isn't a hassle in my setup… and if I were to take the setup on the road alot, would prefer to have a custom coffin built to travel with and play from.

 

 

PEACE

[stoken6]

39 minutes ago, Thethirdapple said:

Better yet, the cpu board could be a usb key, which exist today, capable of fully running linux/windows… bundled with a software DAW and sound banks/audiounits(vst’s)… so the only actual hardware is something like the Osmose with a usb port and a small touch screen.

I'd have it the other way round. The controller is the USB key (device), and the CPU is the host (Raspberry Pi etc.). The intelligence to be a USB host is then provided by the more significant compute power of a CPU. Plus (if we indulge in some creative thinking), it makes it straightforward to add multiple USB devices (keyboard manuals, pedalboards, drawbar controllers, ribbons etc.).

 

Frankly, USB isn't doing much more than MIDI here, but it does provide a standard for providing device power, for discovery, protocol negotiation, hot-swap etc.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Docbop]

The tech isn't the issue its like someone pointed out Company A isn't going to make a product so you can run company B or C sounds.   Everything for simply  DIY exists today with tablets and small laptops.   So only possible issue is a simple reliable connection between the two, something to simplify the cable and power.   The rest is compatibility issues between the hardware, software, and OS venders.  That is the age old issue with digital music compatibility and another company A doesn't do squat to help 3rd parties with compatibility issues.    

 

Could all this be resolved of course, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to happen.   Be it commercial or open source software QA testing is seen as time consuming hassle so let customers find the bugs and we'll fix them someday if every.    As one of the major companies I worked for would say.....   A documented bug is as good as a fixed bug.    In other words the customer knows what to not to do. 

[Thethirdapple]

After a bit of a quick look around the interweb, id say we are very close to what the op is looking for…

https://zynthian.org
https://github.com/SubhadeepJasu/Ensembles

 

And remember that Arturia has done a bunch of different products which get close as well to putting multiple libraries at our fingertips... Anyone remember this one?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/arturia-origin

 

PEACE

[ElmerJFudd]

1 hour ago, Thethirdapple said:

After a bit of a quick look around the interweb, id say we are very close to what the op is looking for…

https://zynthian.org
https://github.com/SubhadeepJasu/Ensembles

 

And remember that Arturia has done a bunch of different products which get close as well to putting multiple libraries at our fingertips... Anyone remember this one?

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/arturia-origin

 

PEACE

The problem with Zynthian is we’re limited to what is successfully working on it - as opposed to Windows or macOS platforms where the majority of commercial efforts compete with each other to put out the best stuff. Also, for the moment (and this will change as more robust hardware becomes available), Zynthian isn’t known for its low latency and high polyphony performance.  So it’s not going to give us splits, layers, playlists, fx chains, etc. like we get on a workstation or from hosts like MainStage.  

[Reezekeys]

Lots of speculatin' and wishful thinking going on in this thread! 🙂 

 

Build your own with a Raspberry Pi? Hope for Roland to make a board that loads Yam sounds or vice-versa? I guess its fun to dream these things, but the "roll-your-own" method of playing the sounds/plugins you like most has been around for a while now. Yes, just get on that laptop or tablet bandwagon like a few of us here, deal with the cables & setup (PITA, agreed, but not nearly enough to be a dealbreaker imo), spend a little time choosing and configuring the plugins with the sounds you like the most, and enjoy. It's been working for me. No disrespect to those who like to turn on a keyboard and be good to go - that's a beautiful thing too, I'll confess to having wished it for myself a few times! The weakness in that method - having to live with some sounds you might not like - is why this thread is here though, isn't it?

 

If anything like what's proposed in the OP were to happen, I think it would have to be a small and dedicated boutique company with healthy finances to do it. I don't think Roland or Yamaha will be very forthcoming with their sounds though! 🙂 

[AUSSIEKEYS]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Zynthian isn’t known for its low latency and high polyphony performance.  So it’s not going to give us splits, layers, playlists, fx chains, etc. like we get on a workstation or from hosts like MainStage.  

 

Thanks Elmer for the headsup here. That would eliminate it for me as an altetnative to a zoner like a Sipario but with onboard sounds. Ive been surfing the net gleaning info on it and low latency is mentioned but sort of brushed over. I dont think its overly used for gigging but more home noodlers perhaps. 

[Thethirdapple]

2 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

The problem with Zynthian is we’re limited to what is successfully working on it - as opposed to Windows or macOS platforms where the majority of commercial efforts compete with each other to put out the best stuff. Also, for the moment (and this will change as more robust hardware becomes available), Zynthian isn’t known for its low latency and high polyphony performance.  So it’s not going to give us splits, layers, playlists, fx chains, etc. like we get on a workstation or from hosts like MainStage.  

Indeed, my point is simply to illustrate that people are wanting and looking to create similar products as the op is “dreaming of”,  and it might well only happen by a small boutique company which would load “old” sound sets and or sound libraries which are already platform (synth) independent. 

 

Certainly these solutions are at an early stage… But Im feeling a paradigm shift in the works and that many well established legacy companies are doing everything they can to slow it down. 
 

Think how silly it would be, to only be able to put ford gasoline into your ford vehicle !?!?

[AUSSIEKEYS]

11 minutes ago, Thethirdapple said:

 

Think how silly it would be, to only be able to put ford gasoline into your ford vehicle !?!?

 

Hee hee.

like Tesla electricity into a Tesla.

[jazzpiano88]

Cmon.  You really want Roland or Yamaha defining (constraining) your computing choices?

The tasks are so different and varied that it doesn't make any sense.

 

I like eating a nice "breakfast for dinner" meal 3 hours before a gig...  I can do one of three things:

 

1. Ask Keyboard manufacturers to integrate a toaster, hot plate, and deep fat fryer into the keyboard.

 

2. Establish a new forum for Breakfast Short Order Keyboardist Cooks.

 

3. Make time in the schedule to stop by Denny's to get a nice breakfast when needed.

 

[TommyRude]

I haven't read every post, but sort of a similar thing happening with cars?  Not too long ago, cars started putting in navigation systems.  But the maps didn't update, unless you paid - a fairly substantial price.  Now some cars navigation systems update automatically - for no charge I believe?  In any case, the navigation systems are getting better and better, along with entertainment, information, vehicle controls.  The car itself - the chassis, wheels, brakes, engine, batteries - - they are somewhat akin to the keyboard, and all the goodies are the electronics.

 

I seem to have lost track of my point... 😂😁