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iPad as a serious musical instrument


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I gotta say....even with all the woes expressed above this post, a 2021 series ipad with 256 of mem is about $400 at the Wal and can run all or most of the apps you want and will be able to for quite awhile unless the next iOS update is completely stupid. Mean while load up on everything you can, get your pianos, EPs, Clavs , Organs, Juno clones, AUM to run it all ect and you'll have alot of amazing power that was unavailable a couple years ago. My iPad I just bought gives me around 10 HOURS of gig time on one charge if I power my hub. I can rehearse for 3 hours, go do a gig and still do something else before I need to recharge. 

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18 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

I gotta say....even with all the woes expressed above this post, a 2021 series ipad with 256 of mem is about $400 at the Wal and can run all or most of the apps you want and will be able to for quite awhile unless the next iOS update is completely stupid. Mean while load up on everything you can, get your pianos, EPs, Clavs , Organs, Juno clones, AUM to run it all ect and you'll have alot of amazing power that was unavailable a couple years ago. My iPad I just bought gives me around 10 HOURS of gig time on one charge if I power my hub. I can rehearse for 3 hours, go do a gig and still do something else before I need to recharge. 

 

A new update for Keyscape and Omnisphere. Fantastic, let me fire it up on an iPad.... Er No! 

 

A tiny fraction of sound libraries with OK sounds may do for some people but it isn't enough for me. It does not matter how many people tell me to use this app, that app, the other app - I don't want them. I want my sound libraries. 

 

The iPad won't be a serious option for me until it can do better than the equivalent of searching for free VSTs on Windows. 

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25 minutes ago, Ibarch said:

A new update for Keyscape and Omnisphere. Fantastic, let me fire it up on an iPad.... Er No! 

 

A tiny fraction of sound libraries with OK sounds may do for some people but it isn't enough for me. It does not matter how many people tell me to use this app, that app, the other app - I don't want them. I want my sound libraries. 

 

I also want my sound libraries, when I'm at home working on stuff. Why would I use my iPad then, when I have my computer? My iPad is for gigging - and for that purpose I don't need all my sounds. That's just my particular situation though. If you require Keyscape & Omnisphere sounds all the time, you have a perfectly valid reason not to get an iPad - I would feel the same. I don't think anyone is claiming an iPad could or should replace a computer in a professional music-making rig, or a hardware keyboard at a gig. If I was ever frustrated by lack of sounds or other features not being available on my iPad rig, I wouldn't be using it.

 

I have the feeling Apple bringing Logic to the iPad is trying to position it as a laptop replacement; it does feel like things are moving in that direction. Perhaps Keyscape and Omnisphere will be on iPads in the future? Right now I'm happy with the "computer at home, i-device on the gig" method of working!

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10 minutes ago, Reezekeys said:

 

I also want my sound libraries, when I'm at home working on stuff. Why would I use my iPad then, when I have my computer? My iPad is for gigging - and for that purpose I don't need all my sounds. That's just my particular situation though. If you require Keyscape & Omnisphere sounds all the time, you have a perfectly valid reason not to get an iPad - I would feel the same. I don't think anyone is claiming an iPad could or should replace a computer in a professional music-making rig, or a hardware keyboard at a gig. If I was ever frustrated by lack of sounds or other features not being available on my iPad rig, I wouldn't be using it.

 

I have the feeling Apple bringing Logic to the iPad is trying to position it as a laptop replacement; it does feel like things are moving in that direction. Perhaps Keyscape and Omnisphere will be on iPads in the future? Right now I'm happy with the "computer at home, i-device on the gig" method of working!

 

Coming from the Windows world, I'm fortunate  to have a single device that can run all my sound libraries in the studio, has a touch interface and a tablet form factor too. I don't have to make the decision on how to replace Keyscape when gigging. I just take it with me. 

 

It is a shame that the same options don't exist for Apple users. My experience has been brilliant and I wish everyone could have the best of all worlds. Two devices should not be the only choice. 

 

Maybe Apple bringing across Logic to the iPad is a catalyst for some change. However it could equally be seen as a statement that there will be no change. A separate iPadOS version will remain mandatory and the only option. Touch will remain exiled from MacOS. No other form factors will be offered. 

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4 hours ago, Ibarch said:

Coming from the Windows world, I'm fortunate  to have a single device that can run all my sound libraries in the studio, has a touch interface and a tablet form factor too. I don't have to make the decision on how to replace Keyscape when gigging. I just take it with me. 

 

Right, I had forgotten you had the SP. I'm glad that solves the issue of carrying all your best sounds with you! My reasons for using the iPad on gigs isn't for the touch interface - it's so I can leave my laptop and its associated SKB Studio Flyer case home! There's no need to bring a music stand and light to gigs anymore as well – ForScore takes care of that. I don't touch my iPad during a gig – everything (including ForScore page turns) is mapped to controls on my A800 Pro. It was well worth the $270 I paid to get all this, even though I couldn't bring all my great Mac sounds along - I have some very decent substitutes. If there was an equivalent device to your SP in the Apple world, I might have gone for that – but I have the feeling it wouldn't be as light (and definitely not as inexpensive) as my iPad. That's the price I pay for being in "Apple world"! Enjoy that Surface Pro!

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Question: Camelot Pro, Keystage, AUM, or ?

 

I recently picked up an iPad9, (last w/headphone jack) and have a variety of keyboard and guitar amp/FX apps that I had previously experimented with on an iPhone (and am also thrilled that PianoTeq has made it to the iPad!). The iPad gives me a more accessible screen size for this iOS adventure.

 

I can set up the keyboard apps to run in the background on different MIDI channels and that's worked OK to start with (using USB MIDI from the keyboard via Apple's camera adapter).  Simply changing the output channel on my controller keyboard can change from piano to B3 to synth, etc.

 

But next I'm looking to get more sophisticated, with a MainStage type setup similar to what I run on my MacBook Pro so I can call up different patches, combine plugins, perhaps run several keyboard controllers, and maybe even trigger audio backing tracks and possibly eventually MIDI tracks for external devices. (And yes, I can already gig with the MacBook Pro and it's brilliant, but I'm specifically interested in refining an even lighter, simpler setup with the iPad for certain gigs). I often gig with multiple instruments so am always looking for ways to slim down and simplify the overall setup, while retaining sufficient capabilities.

 

What experiences have you had with the available MainStage-ish apps for iOS, and what do you like and dislike about each?

 

This thread has been great so far. Thanks for sharing any iPad advice and experiences that may help in choosing this next step.

 

Bonus question: What does it take to run an audio interface with a lightning connected iPad? At some point I'd like like to explore using guitar amp/FX apps on the iPad.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Meta said:

Question: Camelot Pro, Keystage, AUM, or ?

 

I recently picked up an iPad9, (last w/headphone jack) and have a variety of keyboard and guitar amp/FX apps that I had previously experimented with on an iPhone (and am also thrilled that PianoTeq has made it to the iPad!). The iPad gives me a more accessible screen size for this iOS adventure.

 

I can set up the keyboard apps to run in the background on different MIDI channels and that's worked OK to start with (using USB MIDI from the keyboard via Apple's camera adapter).  Simply changing the output channel on my controller keyboard can change from piano to B3 to synth, etc.

 

But next I'm looking to get more sophisticated, with a MainStage type setup similar to what I run on my MacBook Pro so I can call up different patches, combine plugins, perhaps run several keyboard controllers, and maybe even trigger audio backing tracks and possibly eventually MIDI tracks for external devices. (And yes, I can already gig with the MacBook Pro and it's brilliant, but I'm specifically interested in refining an even lighter, simpler setup with the iPad for certain gigs). I often gig with multiple instruments so am always looking for ways to slim down and simplify the overall setup, while retaining sufficient capabilities.

 

What experiences have you had with the available MainStage-ish apps for iOS, and what do you like and dislike about each?

 

This thread has been great so far. Thanks for sharing any iPad advice and experiences that may help in choosing this next step.

 

Bonus question: What does it take to run an audio interface with a lightning connected iPad? At some point I'd like like to explore using guitar amp/FX apps on the iPad.

 

 

IK multimedia has a lot of guitar centric iOS solutions. 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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4 hours ago, Meta said:

But next I'm looking to get more sophisticated, with a MainStage type setup similar to what I run on my MacBook Pro so I can call up different patches, combine plugins, perhaps run several keyboard controllers, and maybe even trigger audio backing tracks and possibly eventually MIDI tracks for external devices. (And yes, I can already gig with the MacBook Pro and it's brilliant, but I'm specifically interested in refining an even lighter, simpler setup with the iPad for certain gigs). I often gig with multiple instruments so am always looking for ways to slim down and simplify the overall setup, while retaining sufficient capabilities.

 

It might be hard to find someone that's used AUM, Camelot & Keystage and can give a hands-on comparison. I've only used AUM - the others might be perfectly fine for what you want to do. My scene is exactly like yours - using a MacBook Pro for many years and wanting to "slim down" for some gigs. I also got the 9G iPad, but loaded everything on my old iPhone SE as well. The two last Apple devices of their kind with headphone jacks!

 

I use AUM along with Midiflow to do exactly what it looks like you're wanting to do - switch between presets using different combinations of hosted instruments. Unlike some I do not switch AUM setups during a gig – everything is loaded once. From what I've read here, Camelot Pro may have the edge there, but I'd rather not be loading & unloading VIs during a gig. Midiflow presets are linked to program changes and switch instantly – they can re-route, channelize, transpose, transform, etc. Midiflow's velocity remapping curve is very flexible and I've been able to get my acoustic & e-piano feeling good to me.

 

AUM has extensive midi control on its own. You can set a VI to bypass with a CC to save CPU, limit a VI to only respond to certain midi channels, CCs, other midi messages, etc. AUM also has a file player to load backing tracks and you can control them with CCs as well. HTH

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4 hours ago, Meta said:

Question: Camelot Pro, Keystage, AUM, or ?

 

I recently picked up an iPad9, (last w/headphone jack) and have a variety of keyboard and guitar amp/FX apps that I had previously experimented with on an iPhone (and am also thrilled that PianoTeq has made it to the iPad!). The iPad gives me a more accessible screen size for this iOS adventure.

 

I can set up the keyboard apps to run in the background on different MIDI channels and that's worked OK to start with (using USB MIDI from the keyboard via Apple's camera adapter).  Simply changing the output channel on my controller keyboard can change from piano to B3 to synth, etc.

 

But next I'm looking to get more sophisticated, with a MainStage type setup similar to what I run on my MacBook Pro so I can call up different patches, combine plugins, perhaps run several keyboard controllers, and maybe even trigger audio backing tracks and possibly eventually MIDI tracks for external devices. (And yes, I can already gig with the MacBook Pro and it's brilliant, but I'm specifically interested in refining an even lighter, simpler setup with the iPad for certain gigs). I often gig with multiple instruments so am always looking for ways to slim down and simplify the overall setup, while retaining sufficient capabilities.

 

What experiences have you had with the available MainStage-ish apps for iOS, and what do you like and dislike about each?

 

This thread has been great so far. Thanks for sharing any iPad advice and experiences that may help in choosing this next step.

 

Bonus question: What does it take to run an audio interface with a lightning connected iPad? At some point I'd like like to explore using guitar amp/FX apps on the iPad.

 

 

I use the midi channel trick also. But within AUM. I have a session (like a patch) that has Horn section on channel 5 ,strings on 4 and b3x running in background on 1, 2 and 3. Sadly b3x doesn't play nice with AUM or most other apps. The advantage of AUM over just background audio is you can put fx on each midi channel and or combine channels to an fx bus. And also many other routing features I don't yet comprehend. And you can open the whole thing by hitting one icon. All your setup and presets are ready to go. Except the problematic b3x. BTW Vb3m cooperates just fine.

My band wants to play the next song with minimum setup and I can change sounds by holding down a button while pushing another. 

FunMachine.

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17 hours ago, Ibarch said:

A tiny fraction of sound libraries with OK sounds may do for some people but it isn't enough for me. It does not matter how many people tell me to use this app, that app, the other app - I don't want them. I want my sound libraries. 

 

 

 

And if the high dollar dictators at cult Apple would let you put a freakin' $25 dollar 512GB or $50 1TB micro sd card into your ipad, you could have a ton of  libraries... but no, they want you to shell out $700 dollars more for a 1TB ipad pro vs 128GB one.  ouch!  that's some expensive kool-aid.

 

 

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I prefer AUM, and echo everything Reezekeys said. I’ve tried Camelot more than once when they’ve updated and it’s quite powerful, but I find it unintuitive and boxy. Likewise the visual mess of Keystage. I prefer the channel strip approach.
 

BTW Jr. Deluxe, have you ensured B-3X and all other VIs, including AUM are set at the same sample rate before saving a session?

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Here for the gear.

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39 minutes ago, D. Gauss said:

And if the high dollar dictators at cult Apple would let you put a freakin' $25 dollar 512GB or $50 1TB micro sd card into your ipad, you could have a ton of  libraries... but no, they want you to shell out $700 dollars more for a 1TB ipad pro vs 128GB one.  ouch!  that's some expensive kool-aid.

 

You can connect external storage to the iPad. You can't store apps on it, but you can put data on it. Usability within an app may still depend on the app developer, though. One of the more adventurous implementation is this one... 

 

Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-)

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Use one of these docks that take SD cards and put your libraries there? Better than an external dangling off the device imo. You also get 3.5mm audio and an older USB connection for a keyboard:

 

image.png.7dd6c3966600f057935fd2051a47ed38.png

 

The particular one in this picture is here: https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Headphone-Control-Charging-Earphone/dp/B087BTVJX6/ (I know nothing about it, just came up in a quick search for "iPad USB C dock").

 

 

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2 hours ago, drawback said:

 

BTW Jr. Deluxe, have you ensured B-3X and all other VIs, including AUM are set at the same sample rate before saving a session?

Yeah all rates are set the same. A rate mismatch was causing b3x to glitch in AUM and that doesn't happen anymore. But opening the b3x app corrupts other instrument apps when they are both in AUM but not if b3x is outside AUM. I can live with it. If I need organ inside AUM I can use VB3m and be quite happy with it.

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3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

You can connect external storage to the iPad.  

 

yes, of course you can, but it is an inelegant kludge/workaround hanging off your ipad vs  a fingernail sized card that fits into the device.  I put a $25 512GB card inside my samsung phone and have access to pretty much every song/album/CD that i've ever recorded and/or purchased.  no streaming subscription.

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3 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

Use one of these docks that take SD cards and put your libraries there? Better than an external dangling off the device imo. You also get 3.5mm audio and an older USB connection for a keyboard:

 

image.png.7dd6c3966600f057935fd2051a47ed38.png

 

The particular one in this picture is here: https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-Headphone-Control-Charging-Earphone/dp/B087BTVJX6/ (I know nothing about it, just came up in a quick search for "iPad USB C dock").

 

 

 

i have three different, but similar types of these hub/docks.  I use them, BUT not by choice.  You still end up with a dangling mess albeit to a lesser degree. coupla things:

 

A) Apple does not make an official "supported by Apple" dock/hub, which makes any incompatibility issues (and there are issues depending upon the device) a  finger pointing, blame each other match, though you can't get the Chinese hub makers to respond to any questions.

 

B) In the pics, these look dandy, BUT.. they don't really attach securely to the IPAD. It looks like they do, but they only add a modicum of stability and if you want to keep your ipad in a case, it is a crapshoot as to whether they fit or not (mine do not).  When they don't fit, you now have a much larger dongle adding stress/weight onto the tiny usb-c port. not ideal. i actually use a short usb-c extension cord and tape the dock to a keyboard.  again if apple actually included the needed i/o connections, the point would be moot. or at the very least, if they themselves made a more elegant, official, securely attachable dock.

 

 

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It’s fair to say that there’s a market (whatever the size is) for a proper audio midi io box with usb and power.  I believe companies are hesitant to do iPad specific hardware because Apple is so unpredictable with their connection choices.  Is it 50 pin, is it lightning, is it USB-C, Thunderbolt or what will apple do next.  RME this season said screw it, and they aren’t doing thunderbolt support. 

Yamaha CP88, Casio PX-560

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9 hours ago, Meta said:

Question: Camelot Pro, Keystage, AUM, or ?

 

I recently picked up an iPad9, (last w/headphone jack) and have a variety of keyboard and guitar amp/FX apps that I had previously experimented with on an iPhone (and am also thrilled that PianoTeq has made it to the iPad!). The iPad gives me a more accessible screen size for this iOS adventure.

 

I can set up the keyboard apps to run in the background on different MIDI channels and that's worked OK to start with (using USB MIDI from the keyboard via Apple's camera adapter).  Simply changing the output channel on my controller keyboard can change from piano to B3 to synth, etc.

 

But next I'm looking to get more sophisticated, with a MainStage type setup similar to what I run on my MacBook Pro so I can call up different patches, combine plugins, perhaps run several keyboard controllers, and maybe even trigger audio backing tracks and possibly eventually MIDI tracks for external devices. (And yes, I can already gig with the MacBook Pro and it's brilliant, but I'm specifically interested in refining an even lighter, simpler setup with the iPad for certain gigs). I often gig with multiple instruments so am always looking for ways to slim down and simplify the overall setup, while retaining sufficient capabilities.

 

What experiences have you had with the available MainStage-ish apps for iOS, and what do you like and dislike about each?

 

This thread has been great so far. Thanks for sharing any iPad advice and experiences that may help in choosing this next step.

 

Bonus question: What does it take to run an audio interface with a lightning connected iPad? At some point I'd like like to explore using guitar amp/FX apps on the iPad.

 

 

I have used Camelot and AUM at home. I prefer Camelot for the ease of creating concerts, control internal sounds and hardware synths, and load PDFs for my scores. Next week I'll use Camelot on a mini 5 concert tour and I'll report back: mainly pianos and electric pianos (Pianoteq, Gospel musicians Rhodes) on a Roland F-20 piano and some organs (VB3), pads (Korg Module, Juno, Moog) and leads on my Arturia 25 controller. All sounds from my iPad. I will have my MacBook Mainstage as a backup. Untill now everything seems to wrong seamlessly but the devil is hidden in details  Let's see if the ipad/Camelot solution is trusty or I must switch to the laptop solution 😉

Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands
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1 hour ago, D. Gauss said:

A) Apple does not make an official "supported by Apple" dock/hub, which makes any incompatibility issues (and there are issues depending upon the device) a  finger pointing, blame each other match, though you can't get the Chinese hub makers to respond to any questions.

 

I agree 100% and what you said probably goes double for lightning accessories. USB-C is not proprietary to Apple so I'm presuming less chances of incompatibilities than with lightning accessories - even those 3rd party ones that are "MFI certified." I'm currently dealing with issues powering my i-device setup: very inconsistent and random-seeming events when I use an extension cable from my power cube to my keyboard (the details would take a fair amount of text to describe so I'll spare everybody - for now! 🙂 ). Suffice it to say that as far as I've seen, it looks like any non-Apple cable is a potential problem. My iPad 9G came with a short (1 meter) cable so I may have to shell out the $29 Apple wants for the 2 meter one. Even that length is not really enough, since my stage setup involves gaffing cables under my keyboard and down an Apex stand. It's a big PITA and such a drag to have this almost be a dealbreaker for using an i-device on my gigs. Just another example of Apple doing it's thing! I believe I have a solution that might work - I'm still experimenting at home and might post about it at some point.

 

1 hour ago, D. Gauss said:

 

B) In the pics, these look dandy, BUT.. they don't really attach securely to the IPAD. It looks like they do, but they only add a modicum of stability and if you want to keep your ipad in a case, it is a crapshoot as to whether they fit or not (mine do not).  When they don't fit, you now have a much larger dongle adding stress/weight onto the tiny usb-c port. not ideal. i actually use a short usb-c extension cord and tape the dock to a keyboard.  again if apple actually included the needed i/o connections, the point would be moot. or at the very least, if they themselves made a more elegant, official, securely attachable dock.

 

There's no substitute for experience and I hear you on the short extension. I did the exact same thing on my Roland controller to avoid stress on its USB jack:

 

image.png.af9a62208c1a7c4e595b2a414e9cf423.png

 

I do note that several of these dock mfrs look like they're trying to address the issue. One has clips that grip the edges of the iPad to add stability: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B084JFJGGP/. Here's another one that has some kind of magnetic attachment clip:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Adapter-iPad-2021-2020-Dockteck/dp/B09TW828QM/

 

image.thumb.png.1401fe08aca2584d46d8a5d79ee5e833.png

 

 

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Posted on the FB AUM users group :

 

 

Kakulya Tamás ▶ ‎AUM users group

️Attention always updaters! You might want to wait before updating your OS if you use one of these 

Apple's Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter Not Working With iOS 16.5

macrumors.com

FunMachine.

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Just tonight I updated my iPhone SE 2020 to 16.5 to get better functionality with my new Airpods Pro. Luckily that's the only iOS/iPadOS device I don't use my USB3 CCK with! My iPad is at 16.3 and it's staying there for now. What the hell is wrong at Apple that they didn't catch this? Thanks for the heads up!

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The quality of testing from all the tech giants is atrocious. They have (almost literally) all the money in the world yet see proper testing and quality assurance as expendable items. 

 

Another point goes to the dedicated keyboard argument. 

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10 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

Posted on the FB AUM users group :

 

 

Kakulya Tamás ▶ ‎AUM users group

️Attention always updaters! You might want to wait before updating your OS if you use one of these 

Apple's Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter Not Working With iOS 16.5

macrumors.com

Link

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Rod

Here for the gear.

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It's always been a rule with me to never update mission-critical software for the only reason that it's become available. I know I'm not the only one here following this rule! Still, for Apple to not catch this - a bug that manifests with one of their own pieces of hardware - is really dumb, imo.

 

As I mentioned earlier, powering my iOS devices is a concern. I have my iPad 9G connected to and powering my A800 Pro via the CCK with a 45-watt power adapter using a 3rd-party "MFI certified" lightning extension cable, and the battery charge is dropping! When I use the Apple cable by itself that does not happen. The A800 on its own draws 300ma, and the iPad ships with a 20-watt cube so a 45-watter should be way more than enough to deal. I've had my A800 power-cycle on a gig when I forgot the MFI-certified cable and made the mistake of using a non-certified. I've had the "this device uses too much power" alert come up a few times too. The iPad does not always see midi from my keyboard either - I have to disconnect, then reconnect the CCK (this only happens when starting up - I've ever lost midi connectivity during a gig).

 

Maybe the above should be a separate thread but it does seem to fit into the "iPad as a serious musical instrument" theme! 🙂 I've been experimenting with different combinations of cables and procedures for connecting & starting my iPad rig, so I'm hopeful that I'll find a reliable way to insure things "just work" 100% of the time. Part of the problem is that I have no idea if this is a more common problem experienced by many musicians using iOS/iPadOS devices like I do, or if it's something specific to my particular combination of hardware and software. Anybody with experiences in these areas should feel free to chime in - or complain, if you just want to vent! I'm still invested in making this work!

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11 hours ago, Jr. Deluxe said:

Posted on the FB AUM users group :

 

 

Kakulya Tamás ▶ ‎AUM users group

️Attention always updaters! You might want to wait before updating your OS if you use one of these 

Apple's Lightning to USB 3 Camera Adapter Not Working With iOS 16.5

macrumors.com

Thanks for the warning - I've got some important gigs lined up for June and I rely on my iPad for charts and patch changes, via one of those adapters.

 

Cheers, Mike.

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I just purchased an iPad Mini 6 that I plan to use for gigging with AUM (and/or Logic Pro ). First impressions are positive, very lightweight and compact but still readable and easy to hold with one hand. Feels very snappy and I already downloaded all the synths I have: Model D, Model 15, Animoog, Mood, Zeeon, VB3m, Alina String Ensemble, KQ Dixie, Korg Module, so should be pretty much ready for anything that is needed to supplement the Numa X Piano. 

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1 hour ago, K K said:

iPad as a musical instrument ?

 

giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47zltups5nf62y95ltir

 

Υep, don't laugh

If you got fly-in gigs but the budget is not big enough to bring your own gear or rent (on a nutshell you're not in the A league of session players) the ipad is now a serious contender next to your MacBook. Maybe not the best solution for home gigs, but still... 

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Be grateful for what you've got - a Nord, a laptop and two hands
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