One keyboard for most realistic sounds - which do you choose? (no plugins allowed)

[AnotherScott]

7 minutes ago, sleepwalk said:

I have not been able to test a YC88 yet. It looks like a good option. I have to look around and find one. I played a CP88, and it was nice, but I didn't like how the organs were just presets, and I could not adjust the settings. My favorites that I have played so far are the Korg Nautilus and Kronos, and Nord Stage 2/3.

 

Well you're covering a lot of my shortlist from the earlier post... ;-)

 

For weighted 88 (and again, "pianos, rhodes, organ, mellotron, fat synth pads and strings"), I think this is your short list, alphabetically:

 

* Dexibell: S9 or S10 

* Korg: Nautilus/Kronos, though personally, I don't like the action on the couple of Kronos RH3 I've played, even though I"ve been fine with other RH3.

* Kurzweil: K2700 (or PC4, but action is lesser)

* Nord: Stage 4 or Stage 3 88 (or even a used Stage 2/2EX)

* Yamaha: YC88, if you're okay with just a couple of mellotron sounds, and an action that is good but on the heavy side

[sleepwalk]

Does anyone know if there is a small controller that could be connected to the Nautilus to control the drawbars in the organ? I've read that the Korg Nanokontrol cannot do this, but I was wondering if there was something else that can?

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, sleepwalk said:

Does anyone know if there is a small controller that could be connected to the Nautilus to control the drawbars in the organ? I've read that the Korg Nanokontrol cannot do this, but I was wondering if there was something else that can?

 

I think the only issue with Korg NanoKontrol is that it has 8 sliders, and you'd want 9. Assuming that's correct, (a) you could use a knob to control the ninth drawbar, (b) you could try to locate a first generation NanoKontrol, those had 9 sliders, or (c) you could use some other 9 slider controller, like Icon i-Controls, Worlde EasyControl.9, Studiologic Mixface.

[sleepwalk]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I think the only issue with Korg NanoKontrol is that it has 8 sliders, and you'd want 9. Assuming that's correct, (a) you could use a knob to control the ninth drawbar, (b) you could try to locate a first generation NanoKontrol, those had 9 sliders, or (c) you could use some other 9 slider controller, like Icon i-Controls, Worlde EasyControl.9, Studiologic Mixface.

What I read is that the Nanokontrol works for CC on the Nautilus, but the drawbars are Sysex, so it can't control them. I'm not sure if there is another small controller that can. Maybe there is someone here that knows.

[AnotherScott]

Ah, it was the CC vs. sysex issue, whoops! I completely forgot about that. There are ways to do CC-to-sysex conversion, using a hardware device (e.g. MIDI Solutions Event Processor), or software (e.g. an iPad app) The hardware approach would probably call for a different controlling device, since the ones I mentioned are USB, and you'd want 5-pin MIDI. Or you could try to locate an old Ocean Beach DB-1 which is a drawbar controller that sends the codes for Kronos (which I assume are the same for Nautilus). I actually have one that I don't use, but am hesitant to sell because I keep figuring I may want it some day, and they're hard to find. ;-)

 

There's a whole thread about this at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/147244-kronos-external-control-of-drawbars-question/

 

[allan_evett]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Ah, it was the CC vs. sysex issue, whoops! I completely forgot about that. There are ways to do CC-to-sysex conversion, using a hardware device (e.g. MIDI Solutions Event Processor), or software (e.g. an iPad app) The hardware approach would probably call for a different controlling device, since the ones I mentioned are USB, and you'd want 5-pin MIDI. Or you could try to locate an old Ocean Beach DB-1 which is a drawbar controller that sends the codes for Kronos (which I assume are the same for Nautilus). I actually have one that I don't use, but am hesitant to sell because I keep figuring I may want it some day, and they're hard to find. 😉

 

There's a whole thread about this at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/147244-kronos-external-control-of-drawbars-question/

 

Not to take this semi-OT, but I unearthed my Evolution UC-33, figuring it might work for Nautilus drawbar control. Nope. Yes, it's does do some very limited SysEx, but that's a group of preset strings. For MIDI CCs, RPN/NRPN, Program-Bank LSB/MSB, PItch Bend (and GM-GM2-XG Sysex messages) it's solid; but no programmable SysEx.  Was thinking a Nektar Panorama P1 surface might do it, but no SysEx... Sure, a MIDI Solutions box or iOS app could work; but that's two devices to hook into the system.  A simple plug 'n play item is all I'd want for live, Nautilus control. To do quick manipulation on stage would be great; the Nautilus sounds like a beast live.  Moonglow was at a show I did last summer, and IIRC correctly was blown away by the sonic impact of the Nautilus 61 - even preferring to my Stage 3, 76 beneath. If the Nautilus 88 wasn't so large and hefty, I'd strongly considering it for a main 88. 

[sleepwalk]

So we know for sure the DB-1 works with the Nautilus? I thought there might be something else that was cheap and easy but I guess the DB-1 is all there is. There's one on Reverb for about $390 with the shipping. The cost makes me kind of lean toward the Kronos, which can just do the drawbar thing with the faders. But, well, I have to think about it...

[AnotherScott]

4 hours ago, sleepwalk said:

So we know for sure the DB-1 works with the Nautilus? I thought there might be something else that was cheap and easy but I guess the DB-1 is all there is. There's one on Reverb for about $390 with the shipping. The cost makes me kind of lean toward the Kronos, which can just do the drawbar thing with the faders. But, well, I have to think about it...

 

If you end up wanting to try this, PM me. I think I'd sell mine, for a bit less, but more importantly, unlike the one on reverb, you could send it back if it didn't work out for you.

[sleepwalk]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

If you end up wanting to try this, PM me. I think I'd sell mine, for a bit less, but more importantly, unlike the one on reverb, you could send it back if it didn't work out for you.

Wow, thanks Scott. I appreciate that. If I go in that direction I'll be in touch. 👍

[sleepwalk]

On 3/4/2023 at 9:47 AM, Sundown said:

It’s only going to matter what you want … What you enjoy playing… Absent a very narrow niche of jazz clubs, no one in the audience will know whether you’re playing the latest Nord or a 30 year-old Ensoniq. As long as the set list is good and the energy and playing is good, the audience is oblivious to our attention to detail. That being said, pick something you really enjoy, because it’s reason enough to get a good board. Just recognize who you’re doing it for.

 

From a gear perspective, Kurzweil shines with orchestral instruments (both solo and ensemble), choirs, pianos, and the KB3 engine is completely useable in a band. I would say their synth sounds fall short of other brands (despite how deep and powerful VAST is). The raw sample material for synth sounds isn’t as competitive as other offerings, and I don’t think the VA oscillators make up for it.

 

I think Yamaha is doing some great stuff across the board and I’m partial to some of their synth sounds. Organs are going to be mediocre (at least on a Montage). But if you go with a Montage you also get a great FM engine, besides just sample playback.

 

Korg lost me a long time ago, other than the great work they are doing with their legacy plugin instruments. Modern Korg patches sound nasal to me. It’s hard to put a finger on what I don’t like about it, but it’s the best descriptor I can provide.

 

Nords sound great in YouTube videos, but I’ve never really played one so I’ll have to recuse myself. They are definitely a board I would look at if I wanted another weighted board.

 

And Roland is a tough one … There’s some good synth sounds on a Jupiter X, some decent APs, but I’m not sure about organs. The organ demos I’ve heard fall short of others (e.g. Nord, Kurzweil, etc). 

 

If you want to try something off the beaten path, checkout a Sequential Prophet X. There’s no drawbars (and I doubt it has a Leslie sim), but it is sample-based and it will be very different from other more popular offerings. And the synth sounds will crush most of the competitors. And it has knobs galore … It’s definitely a board I would consider if I had $3,500 at my disposal.

 

Todd

I played around on a Jupiter X today. Wow, it sounds amazing. I don't think it's right for what I'm looking for right now, but it certainly produces some incredible sounds. I got lost grooving out some dusted, spaced out, dub funk 😎

[sleepwalk]

Also I played the YC88 today. It's really nice. Organ sounds great as does the Rhodes. Wasn't sure about the pianos because I forgot to bring my headphones and they had it going through some crummy speakers. I'm sure it's good though if it's the same as the CP88.

 

And I tried a Stage 3 and Nautilus again. I figured out how to pull up the EP Mark I, II, V etc on the Nautilus and remove the effects and amp models. Some of the Rhodes sounds are new and some are from the Kronos. I think I prefer the ones brought in from the Kronos. I compared dry Rhodes sounds with the Stage 3 and I can see why some prefer the Korg sounds, they have more definition to my ear, but the Nord sounds are by no means bad...

 

I think at this point I am leaning towards a used Korg as it will be an excellent value, but I may try a Kurzweil one more time to be sure... 

[AnotherScott]

9 hours ago, sleepwalk said:

I played around on a Jupiter X today. Wow, it sounds amazing. I don't think it's right for what I'm looking for right now, but it certainly produces some incredible sounds.

Then maybe it's worth revisiting the full Fantom, which I think includes all the sonic capability of the Jupiter X, though without the synth-centric control surface.

 

9 hours ago, sleepwalk said:

Also I played the YC88 today. It's really nice. Organ sounds great as does the Rhodes. Wasn't sure about the pianos because I forgot to bring my headphones and they had it going through some crummy speakers. I'm sure it's good though if it's the same as the CP88.

The CP88 has some additional piano sounds that aren't in the YC, though YC got some of them in the update that was released today.

 

[sleepwalk]

Just wanted to let folks know my search has ended with the purchase of a Kronos 88! It's been updated to the latest OS and has 3GB ram and a 500GB SSD added inside. It's also in really nice condition, been really well taken care of. The guy I bought it from says he's a tech; he recently opened it up and cleaned the contacts in the keybed. Plays great. Also has the Italian grand and Berlin grand installed. The pianos sound really good.

 

I just started playing it the last couple nights, and last night I installed one of the Purgatory Creek Rhodes sounds, which is a really excellent Rhodes sound. I'm going to install the other free one tonight.

 

Other than getting to know the Kronos and exploring all the sounds, the other thing I am interested in is seeing if I can convert some free piano sounds that I have downloaded from Pianobook.com to the Korg format and see how they play in the Kronos. I think there are a couple softwares I can try for this. I'm going to try this one I found called ConvertWithMoss. I will let you guys know if it works.

 

Anyway I just want to say I appreciate everyone who made suggestions and gave advice to me here. You guys provide great information and insight when you share your experience with these instruments. Thanks! -Jon

[drawback]

Although I haven’t contributed to this thread, as a Kronos latecomer myself I’ll congratulate you on the purchase. I prefer the action over anything out there, and if the sounds aren’t quite up to my taste they’re infinitely editable. The Purgatory Creek sets are outstanding (I edit them too 😉) and the only thing I’ve found that can’t be improved from the ground up, is the CX3. That said, Kronos is an excellent controller for B-3X. I could go on, but enough said.
 

Welcome to the club!

[Radagast]

On 2/21/2023 at 1:57 PM, Nathanael_I said:

The Kronos and the Kurzweil offerings also have the ability to import multi-samples and have a whole ecosystem of vendors who supply them.  These are boards that "become what you wish" if you put in the effort.  The basics are excellent, but if you don't like something, you can change it.  Workflow, UI and action feel are probably more important than the differences in base samples for everything except acoustic pianos (which are very hard to sample well). 

Dexibell keyboards can download sounds for free including Soundfont 2 files.  The APs are awesome.  If you don’t want another keyboard, then the SX8 is a good option.  It also has a drawbar organ model in it.

[Radagast]

On 3/25/2023 at 4:08 AM, sleepwalk said:

So we know for sure the DB-1 works with the Nautilus? I thought there might be something else that was cheap and easy but I guess the DB-1 is all there is. There's one on Reverb for about $390 with the shipping. The cost makes me kind of lean toward the Kronos, which can just do the drawbar thing with the faders. But, well, I have to think about it...

How about the Crumar D9X?  Is there the same problem with the Nautilus not being compatible?

[lsj]

On 4/4/2023 at 2:55 AM, sleepwalk said:

I played around on a Jupiter X today. Wow, it sounds amazing. I don't think it's right for what I'm looking for right now, but it certainly produces some incredible sounds. I got lost grooving out some dusted, spaced out, dub funk 😎

I have the jupiter XM and really is impressing me, and I have 13 synths.

[K K]

8 hours ago, sleepwalk said:

Just wanted to let folks know my search has ended with the purchase of a Kronos 88!

Hi there, IMHO you just got the best machine possible today. I updated mine as well with a 500 GB and other things and you will have fun for many years. Congrats and enjoy !