Good sounding PA or Keyboard Amp for a digital piano and a vocalist.

[Dan Foley]

I want an amp/PA that can handle the keyboard and an SM-58 mic, without the need for an eternal mixer. I currently have a Peavy KB-4 and I hate it. It sounds like crap. I just saw a jazz duo playing with a Roland kc-600 and it sounded pretty good to me, but everyone online seems to think the Rolands sound like crap too. Maybe since my Peavy sounds so incredible bad, the kc-600 sounded good to me. I've seen things like the Yamaha Stagepas system, but that might be over kill for me? I really just want one speaker to carry, that has inputs for my keyboard and the mic.

 

At home, I play my digital piano thru a mixer and a pair of Mackie MR-5 and it sounds great. I want that same sound (if not better) playing live.

 

My peavy sounds really really harsh. I hate it so much.

 

I'm not looking to be in a rock band, this is for a small jazz duo where quiet background music is the goal. Nice clean sound.

What do you recommend?

[octa]

You said no mixer but this setup would sound good: 

 

[Sean M. H.]

4 minutes ago, Dan Foley said:

I want an amp/PA that can handle the keyboard and an SM-58 mic, without the need for an eternal mixer. I currently have a Peavy KB-4 and I hate it. It sounds like crap. I just saw a jazz duo playing with a Roland kc-600 and it sounded pretty good to me, but everyone online seems to think the Rolands sound like crap too. Maybe since my Peavy sounds so incredible bad, the kc-600 sounded good to me. I've seen things like the Yamaha Stagepas system, but that might be over kill for me? I really just want one speaker to carry, that has inputs for my keyboard and the mic.

 

At home, I play my digital piano thru a mixer and a pair of Mackie MR-5 and it sounds great. I want that same sound (if not better) playing live.

 

My peavy sounds really really harsh. I hate it so much.

 

I'm not looking to be in a rock band, this is for a small jazz duo where quiet background music is the goal. Nice clean sound.

What do you recommend?

 

Do you need effects--i.e. reverb on the mic input?  I use an EV ZLX12P, which has 2 inputs, both of which are combo jacks (can take 1/4" from your keyboard, or XLR from a mic).  So, it can definitely handle a keyboard and an SM58.  But there are no effects in it, just basic bass and treble EQ.

 

Note: the ZLX12P has since been replaced by the ZLX12BT, which adds Bluetooth 

[El Lobo]

I have a Peavey KB4. Yes it is crap. If you don't care about stereo sound, you can use 1 QSC powered speaker with 2 inputs. I also use a JBL Eon 1 battery powered speaker that has several inputs + reverb. There are lots of other options out there. Search this forum on powered speakers.

[KuruPrionz]

Take a look at the Fishman Loudbox Performer amplifier. 

I have one and love it, have played solo gigs with it a few times and quite a few duo gigs. 2 complete channels (inputs will take a mic, a line in or a guitar) with EQ and effects, 180 watts, a 3 way speaker with an 8" woofer, 5" midrange and a quality tweeter with it's own volume control. 

Vocals sound really good, not sure if there enough low end because I play guitar but my baritone guitar does sound fat. There is a third channel for canned music, just a jack and a pot. 32 pounds, has a kickstand so you can tilt it up. 

 

I used it as a PA system for a duo I was in. Big room and it sounded great everywhere. Get the cover, it's not much more and has a nice sized pouch on the back for your stuffs. Super versatile, compact, light and sounds big. 

[UnderGroundGr]

Roland cube cm-30

[ewall08530]

I have  a Bose S-1 Bluetooth speaker for small gigs.  
Casio S-7000 in 1 channel and a Shure Beta 58 in channel 2. 
  It has some preset EQ. and reverb. it sounds best and has more power used with a small mixer but I have used it by itself on a speaker stand 

It probably would work well for your quiet jazz gigs. If you can set it and forget it that’s ideal but if you need to start tweaking settings they are on the side of the speaker and you should keep it within your reach, be it on a stand or on the floor. 

  I mostly use a Bose Pro 8 line array. Also has Bluetooth and it has a mixer app so you can use your smartphone or iPad to control it.  Honestly the footprint is about the same as the S-1 up on a speaker stand.  I know you want to carry just 1 speaker/ amp but the flexibility and ease of carrying a 32lb sub in one hand and the 8lb line array(in a bag) is wonderful.  And you have plenty of power, low end and this unit has great coverage. 
I didn’t see a budget for your recommendations, the Bose is pricey and I feel that it’s worth it.  

[cphollis]

I know you said "no mixer", but I just helped a friend set up a pretty cool rig.  We used a budget recording interface to route his signal to an iPad for EQ, chorus, reverb, compression, and then back to his Bose L1 Compact.   He sounds like a million bucks whether live, streaming, etc.  Lots of fiddly cables, though.  We'll be mounting it all to a pedalboard.

 

There are those that are cynical about Bose gear, but it works great and sounds great for acoustic level stuff.  You see it everywhere.   I have a well worn Bose L1 Model 1S which is brilliant for acoustic-level material.  I have found that column speakers do a much better job of dispersing sound around the room or patio vs "just a speaker".

 

There are a variety of small column PA units available with integrated mixers.  Almost none of them have usable effects.  I have become a big fan of running everything through a full channel strip between instrument and speaker!

[AnotherScott]

EV ZXa1 would be my suggestion for something good sounding, lightweight, relatively low-cost.

 

Using a mixer will get you more gain out of your keyboard, but if it's for low volume use, and if you don't care about EQ or reverb, you can probably get by without it. 

[ElmerJFudd]

Remember when a few digital pianos had XLR mic pre and a signal path for reverb to mix with your piano sound before the PA speaker?  Ah, those were the days. 
 

For this type of thing one of those column PAs might be just the thing.  EV, Bose, JBL and Turbosound all offer them in $1.4 - 2k area.  Other less expensive portables are Fender passport, JBL EON 208P. Fishman SA330x.  

[AnotherScott]

I like the Bose L1 Pro8. It's not quite "one box to carry" since it moves in two pieces (the top part is separate and has to be attached at the gig) but the top part comes in a carry bag and is super light, and setup is pretty quick (minimal wiring... just a power cord, and your inputs). The built-in 3-channel mixer gives you reverb and tone controls, and it sounds good, with broad dispersion. If budget can handle it and it doesn't literally have to move in one piece, this would probably be my first choice here.

[Lou_NC]

Motion Sound KP-408S and KP-610S offer XLR mic input, stereo output (if that's important to you) in a single package.  (Stereo imaging is important to me for organ Leslie effects, may not be important to everyone).  I've read good things about the current Motion sound products.

[AnotherScott]

Yes, Motion Sounds KP-408S is another nice choice. I don't think it has any reverb in it, but if you want stereo in a single box, that would be my choice here. If you don't need the stereo, I'd probably take the Bose for its lighter travel weight, and for having reverb to put on the vocals. The Bose is pricier, though. And I'm not sure which would go louder, if you needed to push it. My guess would be the Motion Sound.

[drawback]

I guess it would depend on which is most important at the gig: stereo for the keyboard or fx on the vocals. I've played through a Bose L1 and while the sound is generally good and reaches every corner of the room, and it's good enough for vocals, the keys still will sound collapsed. That said, the audience may not even notice the difference or care. But as a keys player you might prefer the Motion Sound with a small under-$200 fx mixer for the mic. One aspect of the Bose is that you can have the same sound coming at you at pretty much the same levels as the audience. Assuming you'd have the Motion Sound behind you, there would be feedback issues and it would be quite a bit louder on stage and harder to nuance the music.

 

So bearing in mind that pleasing your audience is the most important, and the vocals in a duo is the most visible component, I'd suck it up as a player and go with a Bose (Fishman, JBL etc) stick. I could always figure out a way to monitor myself in stereo so I'd feel better about the keyboard sound.

[Delaware Dave]

I think that in this case a Line Array might be the way to go.  The con is that a decent sounding line array system is fairly expensive, meaning there are cheaper alternatives.

[OrpheusNY]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

EV ZXa1 would be my suggestion for something good sounding, lightweight, relatively low-cost.

 

Using a mixer will get you more gain out of your keyboard, but if it's for low volume use, and if you don't care about EQ or reverb, you can probably get by without it. 

Another intriguing option would be EV’s new Everse 8, which has two XLR/TRS combo jacks, a 3.5 mm stereo input, and Bluetooth. There’s a little 4 channel digital mixer with FX you can run from your phone on their app. It also can run for several hours on battery. And it sounds great and is lightweight at 16.8 lb.

[El Lobo]

As I said, lots of good options out there. You can look at a lot of these suggestions online - see the inputs, control panels, other features to give you a good idea of what you might want (and what you don't need, don't want to pay for). If you can actually see and hear any of these at your local Guitar Center or other music store (if they exist), that might help you decide what you want. Also, see if anybody else is gigging with a similar set up to what you're looking for. See if you can talk to them about the pros and cons of their rig. There are definitely some good solutions to do what you want. Biggest variable might be cost.  

[drawback]

36 minutes ago, OrpheusNY said:

Another intriguing option would be EV’s new Everse 8, which has two XLR/TRS combo jacks, a 3.5 mm stereo input, and Bluetooth. There’s a little 4 channel digital mixer with FX you can run from your phone on their app. It also can run for several hours on battery. And it sounds great and is lightweight at 16.8 lb.

This new breed of quality battery-powered speakers is certainly worth considering. I had a pair of Yorkville 8" Excursions but returned them because I didn't really need them to be self-powered and bluetooth (extra $ better spent on quality), but for a duo doing outdoor gigs or even gigs with power a long way away from the performing area (thinking restaurants or lobbies) they might be just the ticket. Yorkville has an array-type Excursion setup.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, drawback said:

I guess it would depend on which is most important at the gig: stereo for the keyboard or fx on the vocals. I've played through a Bose L1 and while the sound is generally good and reaches every corner of the room, and it's good enough for vocals, the keys still will sound collapsed.

Without getting into the mono/stereo debate, I'll just mention that there are different L1 models, and the L1 Pro8 is better than the older L1 Compact it replaced.

[piano39]

A few of you mentioned that you play keyboards through the Bose L1 Line array speaker.  I just played two gigs with a duo that owned one.  The owner was not too technical-  the setup sounded great for vocals and acoustic guitars, but my keyboard was very bass heavy.

 

I am seriously considering buying one.  I checked out the tonematch iphone app.  It has presets for about a million different guitars and mics, but only a few for keyboards .  I am considering using channel one or two for guitars and or mics, and plugging a small mixer into channel three.  Keyboards and one or two other mics would go into the submix.

 

Can any of you Bose L1 owners chime in?

 

 

[AnotherScott]

There are (or have been) many different L1. I think there's Model 1, Model 1S, Model 2, Compact, Pro 8, Pro 16, Pro 32... Which one are you evaluating?

[piano39]

Another Scott:

 

Bose L1 Pro8. 

This would be for solo through trio gigs at small venues.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

25 minutes ago, piano39 said:

Another Scott:

 

Bose L1 Pro8. 

This would be for solo through trio gigs at small venues.

That's the model I have. It's mostly for the band's vocals, but I have put my keys through it a number of times, and it's been fine as long as we didn't need too much volume. For a trio, I think it would be fine.

 

I don't use the tonematch. I run it flat, either with keys direct, or as you said, through a small submixer.

[PianoMan51]

I understand the desire to eliminate unnecessary gear, but I’d like to make a sales pitch for the lowly mixer. 
 

With basic treble and bass EQ. 
 

A live mic without treble EQ, to me, is like a meal that has been pre-salted. Maybe it’s good, maybe bad, but you can’t ‘salt to taste’. And an optimal treble EQ setting is going to depend on the singer, the mic, the PA, the room, the band, the audience. 

[Montunoman 2]

The Bose S1 Pro, would be perfect for your needs. Has built in reverb/EQ too and also can run on batteries. I use a pair, sometimes without a  mixer

[AnotherScott]

18 minutes ago, PianoMan51 said:

I understand the desire to eliminate unnecessary gear, but I’d like to make a sales pitch for the lowly mixer. 
 

With basic treble and bass EQ. 

The Bose L1 Pro8 has 3 inputs, each with treble and bass EQ (and reverb).

[b3plyr]

Well, you said you want a sound at least as good as your home setup. Since you are running in stereo, you may not be satisfied with the mono Bose. I love the Bose equipment, and had an L1 series 2 but did not like how my Forte sounded through it. One more issue. If you want to use the"self monitoring" aspect of the Bose, that may be fine in a small environment. My duo had problems in a long rectangular room playing from a recessed stage (short walls on each side). Because of the wide dispersion of the Bose, much of the energy was wasted on the stage. We had to turn the system up to ear blasting levels. Having said that, I wish I could use the Bose - it is a great system. As others have said, it may well be your best bet.

 

My current duo is using 2 QSC K8.2s. I know, you want one speaker. and one K8.2 would work well for you if you don't need stereo . I've used the K8.2s since I sold the Bose a few years ago. As other have said, the K8.2s do not have effects. The built in mixer, however, is quite good.

[Dan Foley]

It's been a while since I posted this. I didn't have the need for playing out. The time has come that I'm going to be playing out again. This time around it's a small jazz combo. Piano, Vocal, Bass.

 

I'd like to be able to plug the piano and vocal into whatever I get. The problem is price. I can't afford to spend much more than maybe 500 at the most and it would be nice to spend a lot less. I have heard people gigging with a Roland KC amp that sounded great, as well as the Bose L1.  I tried an EV-powered monitor and it sounded too boomy. I really want the nice clean piano sound I get out of my Mackie K5s. 

 

My piano teacher, which quite an accomplished jazz player, uses a Behringer Ultratone KXD12. He likes it. Of course, he plays on real pianos as much as he can.

 

I'm really having a hard time, my local music stores have a somewhat small selection of powered speakers and NO selection of keyboard amps other then the Roland KC.

 

If money was no option, it would be an easier choice.

 

So I either:

1. Buy a powered speaker at a local store, try it out see if I like it, return it if I don't - rinse and repeat. 

2. Buy the Behringer as my piano teacher uses it, but I'd have to order it online. Not sure how I would return it, if I would have to pay for shipping.

 

I lean toward getting a powered speaker as I can use it for lots of other things, and get another to do stereo if when I want. But the price ranges are so much. If my little Mackie K5 studio monitors can sound so good with only a 5" woofer, why can't I find a powered monitor with a small woofer that sounds just a good? Why do I need to get a big woofer? Do they make smaller powered monitors that can sound just as good as studio monitors? I keep hearing (and seeing people selling used) Bose S1 Pro system. I don't know if that's going to be enough for what I need. But it seems to fit the bill for something small.

 

[stoken6]

8 hours ago, Dan Foley said:

I tried an EV-powered monitor and it sounded too boomy

Do you know which model EV you tried? Most EVs of the type typically seen here (such as the ZLX12 mentioned above) should sound adequate-or-better. Not as good as studio monitors, perhaps, but better than a Roland or Peavey keyboard amp.

8 hours ago, Dan Foley said:

My piano teacher, which quite an accomplished jazz player, uses a Behringer Ultratone KXD12. He likes it. Of course, he plays on real pianos as much as he can.

Have you tried it, and do you like it? If you haven't tried it, perhaps arrange a "test-drive" at a lesson - bring your keyboard and plug it in.

8 hours ago, Dan Foley said:

If my little Mackie K5 studio monitors can sound so good with only a 5" woofer, why can't I find a powered monitor with a small woofer that sounds just a good? Why do I need to get a big woofer?

Basically because the Mackie only has to fill a smallish room, and it doesn't need the rugged build of something on the road.

8 hours ago, Dan Foley said:

I keep hearing (and seeing people selling used) Bose S1 Pro system. I don't know if that's going to be enough for what I need. But it seems to fit the bill for something small.

A lot of products will be "enough for what you need". But if you don't like them, there's no point buying. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[lsj]

I use Bose L1 model 2 with the larger bass cabinet.  love it, but that's just me.  everyone will have their opinion and to them it's the best.