Thinking about using an iPad...

[pizzafilms]

Hello all,

 

I'm thinking about using an iPad as a sound module with a keyboard controller...I've just never done it. I've been using a Mac laptop with a  few different controllers and just used the headphone out jack for audio...mostly with MainStage, but a few other standalone sound sources.

 

Wondering how anyone else is dealing with controller connection (wired? Bluetooth?), audio out, etc.. I'm thinking about using it mostly for a decent piano and a B3. 

 

Would love any and all thoughts & suggestions...and/or things to avoid.

[Baldwin Funster]

Search YouTube for ipad as sound module. There are lots of good videos on this.

[jeffincltnc]

I use Korg PlugKey with the Lightning style connector, but they don't make them anymore and most iPads are USB-C now.  But it's a good device.

[D. Gauss]

ipad mini 6 here. a usb C mini hub, camelot pro with hammond b3x, gsi vb3, korg module, etc.  all works quite dandy.

[Reezekeys]

I've been transitioning to an iPad/iPhone setup from my laptop, just like you're doing.

 

I suggest using an i-device with a headphone jack - it makes the cabling a lot less complicated! Bluetooth has latency and you'll need a dongle for your keyboard for that. Of course USB also requires a dongle - the Apple adapter: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MK0W2AM/A/lightning-to-usb-3-camera-adapter. The iPad power cube keeps my battery charged and powers my Roland controller too. I would avoid the 3rd-party Lightning adapters on Amazon or Ebay. If your iPad has USB-C then you might be OK with a 3rd-party USB/audio adapter, but I have no experience with any of those.

 

You'll get plenty of advice on the "best" piano or organ here, I'm sure! I have a custom piano I did myself (based on the Native Instruments "New York"), and use the Galileo organ which I think sounds fine but has a complicated and convoluted UI.

 

I'm getting ready to do a major gig with an original (2016) iPhone SE as my only sound source! It does multiple instruments with very involved midi routing and processing, at a 128 buffer, with no issues. I'm actualy shocked with how well this old phone does. My older iPad (Air 2) can do the same setup at a 256 buffer with a few "snatty" DSP overloads here & there.

[Al Quinn]

I find that the latency for Bluetooth audio makes it unusable for performance but Bluetooth midi from a Bluetooth keyboard controller to the iPad is quite playable. I use an iPad Pro with a Korg MicroKey Air 61, which has integrated Bluetooth midi. I also have a Bluetooth volume pedal that supports a wired sustain pedal to complete the setup. I haven’t used this rig on a gig but I think I could if I had to or wanted to (although the mini keys might draw some strange looks).

 

I’ve gigged with an iPad Pro using a Nord Electro 4D as a controller and Korg Plug Key as the iPad audio interface. It works well. B-3X from IK Multimedia is the best Hammond iPad app that I’ve found. It’s more expensive than some of the other choices but it’s awesome. I posted this gig video on the forum a while back for other interested forum members to hear. 
 

 

[pizzafilms]

I've seen several mentions of using the Apple camera adapter, but that has a lightning connector and my iPad Pro has a USB-C connector. 

 

So, I'm guessing that I need a USB-C hub that will connect my keyboard controller to the iPad. But how do I get audio out? 

 

[Reezekeys]

20 minutes ago, pizzafilms said:

So, I'm guessing that I need a USB-C hub that will connect my keyboard controller to the iPad. But how do I get audio out? 

 

I would go with this or something like it: https://www.amazon.com/Anker-PowerExpand-Adapter-Delivery-Headphone/dp/B082VRG55W. I have no idea if this is a good piece or not but it has the features you need (maybe more than you need!) and the price is certainly right at the moment. I also like that it attaches directly to the iPad instead of dangling off it like my CCK and a lot of other adapters. I'm pretty sure there are other companies that make a similar product. For music-making you just need USB, audio and power.

[pizzafilms]

Just saw this mentioned on another thread...USB-C hub with an audio output.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0915B3NPY?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

[Reezekeys]

4 minutes ago, pizzafilms said:

Just saw this mentioned on another thread...USB-C hub with an audio output.

 

There are many of these from different Chinese companies, but they all dangle off the i-device. You may prefer the kind that sit flush with the body of the tablet like the one I linked to right above your post before this.

[Paul Woodward]

5 hours ago, pizzafilms said:

I've seen several mentions of using the Apple camera adapter, but that has a lightning connector and my iPad Pro has a USB-C connector. 

 

So, I'm guessing that I need a USB-C hub that will connect my keyboard controller to the iPad. But how do I get audio out? 

 

I bought a USB B to USB C cable and it worked fine for controlling it from a keyboard. This is the beauty of USB C, you can connect hubs, hard drives, just about anything . However, getting audio as well depends on your set up and then there is charging it, at which point you need a hub. I bought the Gen 9 iPad as its still current but has a jack headphone socket which outputs at very good quality, looks like it will be the last one to have this option so I wanted to cover a few bases 🙂

[Paul Woodward]

This is my latest rig (photo) and how I am using the boards I have for various situations (diagram). Basically, rehearsals will be the A800 and iPad while a portable live set up will be the YC61 and A800 running the iPad. 

For studio or larger gigs/venues, I would take the Korg, Yamaha and possibly the Ipad to ‘beef’ up some sounds.

 

The beauty of the YC is its IOS integration. Cable into the iPad and it becomes like an internal sound module operated by the YC. It does audio and midi over the cable so just one simple connection. I can even run the Korg into the YC inputs and all three devices output together negating the need for the little Yamaha mixer I have although it might be useful for running out to a PA and monitors. Its USB powered too so could power from a plug or another device.

I really like the sounds of the iPad for live playing. I A/B’s the YC piano and iPad and they were almost like for like unless playing slow classical pieces. The organs are good too and rotary triggered by a sustain pedal.

Just packed all this into three light gig bags in a few minutes 🙂

[Al Quinn]

Paul, what piano are you using on the iPad?

[Stokely]

As Paul Woodward mentions, Yamaha has done a great thing by including audio/midi interfaces in many of their keyboards.  I've been gigging for at least a year with an ipad velcroed to the top of mine, running B-3X.  I use a camera connection kit with extra lightning port so that the ipad can charge (it's an older lightning ipad, not usb-c).  Audio runs into the Modx on the same cable that handles midi, and the Modx offers a separate volume control for it. Studiologic is maybe the only other company that has keyboards that can do this?  Might be some I've overlooked.  Granted this is mainly handy if you are combining keyboard and ipad sounds, otherwise I'd just get a class-compliant interface.

Ironically I just bought a Hammond sk pro because I missed the ergonomics of a clonewheel.  Honestly I think B-3X has a better sound in some ways, particularly for overdrive.  Not sure it's more authentic, but it can really scream!  Way more flexible with amp and cab options too.   I may still use my ipad to do some synth stuff, although the Modx isn't nearly as lacking with synths as it is with organ.

I may also look to add a piano, if any of the IOS ones can work better in mono than the stock pianos.  It's been a real issue for me.   I have hopes that IOS Pianoteq might eventually be a good option here, being modeled and not stereo sampled you'd think it should be pretty easy to make a mono-compatible patch.

[BenWaB3]

I had been using the Yamaha Bluetooth adapter but would get occasional chokes or hiccups when playing live. I had gone to the Apple store yesterday & they had sold me a dongle which didn't have a 3.5mm audio out but the guy said to use the USB-C to 3.5 I already had and it would work. I had something similar at home so tried using it and it works fine. No choking so far, knock on wood. So, I'm going USB-B out of the SKPro into the USB-A on the dongle, then the USB-C out of the dongle to the USB-C to 3.5 (second) dongle. Here's the link to the item on Amazon:

 

Amazon.com: iPad Pro USB C Hub, Baseus 6-in-1 Adapter for iPad Pro 2022 2020 2018 12.9/11 inch, Docking Station with 4K HDMI, USB-C PD Charging, SD/Micro Card Reader, USB 3.0 & 3.5mm Headphone Jack : Electronics

 

 Don't know if that will work properly as a link since it's not showing up as one in this post. It will also fit flush onto the side of the iPad whereas the soon-to-be-returned one from the Apple store wasn't. It does have a 3.5 out but, IIRC, I had tried that & it only worked intermittently at best. Using the USB-C out it works perfectly.

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[Paul Woodward]

6 hours ago, Al Quinn said:

Paul, what piano are you using on the iPad?

I was using the stock piano in Module, but just picked up the Ivory IAP as it’s half price. It’s noticeably better. Grabbed the Organs, clavs, scarbee 88 and the Wurly too

[Stokely]

Pure Piano is (or just was) on sale.  I'm not sure it would be the best for rock live playing as I do, it seems to be good at softer solo stuff from the demos.

[Reezekeys]

Pure Piano impressed me at first but on repeated listens & plays (I bought it) I realized it sounded very unnatural. There seems to be a low-pass filter steeply cutting off all upper harmonics. It's very dynamic in terms of the volume changes from ppp to fff, but the character doesn't change much as you vary velocities.

[Jose EB5AGV]

3 hours ago, Paul Woodward said:

I was using the stock piano in Module, but just picked up the Ivory IAP as it’s half price. It’s noticeably better. Grabbed the Organs, clavs, scarbee 88 and the Wurly too

I wonder about the 50%-off offer on Korg Module expansions because, using last software version, which shows that offer, prices seem to me like the regular ones. I thought you would see an slashed price or an offer tag, as I seem to recall on earlier purchases, but not. Any hint?

[Paul Woodward]

12 minutes ago, EB5AGV said:

I wonder about the 50%-off offer on Korg Module expansions because, using last software version, which shows that offer, prices seem to me like the regular ones. I thought you would see a slashed price or an offer tag, as I seem to recall on earlier purchases, but not. Any hint?

Definitely reduced, ivory was around £25 last week, now it’s £12.99. I have been checking prices all week and they all changed for the sale. This is in the UK by the way, I presume it’s on sale everywhere

 

[Paul Woodward]

Triton is the only pack of interest I haven’t bought as I have the Korg collection on Mac and not sure I would use it live.

[Reezekeys]

The Korg soundsets still give you a free demo period, right? That should be enough time to see if they'll work. I have and use the Scarbee Rhodes but let the demo on the Ivory module expire - it didn't do it for me.

[pjd]

Lots of good suggestions, here.

 

I'm using an older iPad with 3.5mm audio and Lightning. I don't like taking audio from the 3.5mm jack -- too prone to physical disturbance and noise. External audio is the way to go especially if the interface has a robust jack and the interface sits on a sturdy surface (like the floor).

 

Extension cables are a real boon. I don't like the short cable on most adapters (like Apple's). The short cable puts the stress of the adapter and attached cables on the Lightning jack. I recommend an extension cable between the iPad and adapter in order to put everything on the floor.

 

Haven't had a problem with Bluetooth or BLE latency. Bluetooth can really simplify an iPad rig. Don't sweat latency unless it is so bad that it throws off your playing. Delay like that drives me nuts...

 

Hope this helps -- pj

 

P.S. Korg Module "try before buy" trial periods have saved a lot of disappointment.

 

[Reezekeys]

1 hour ago, pjd said:

I'm using an older iPad with 3.5mm audio and Lightning. I don't like taking audio from the 3.5mm jack -- too prone to physical disturbance and noise. External audio is the way to go especially if the interface has a robust jack and the interface sits on a sturdy surface (like the floor).

 

Great if that works for you. Personally I have no issues at all with the headphone jacks on either my old iPad or iPhone - I'm more than happy to have them rather than be forced into the kludgey world of lightning to USB dongles, hubs, and external interfaces. iPad Pros with USB-C are a different story; at least you can get 3rd-party docks that mate directly to the iPad and avoid the dangly dongles. Some of those docks have a 3.5mm audio output too. I have also never experienced any "physical disturbance" or "noise" from those headphone jacks (other than the noise that results from my playing! 🙂 ). They go directly into my powered speakers; couldn't be an easier or more convenient hookup. I do try to route the cables in a way to avoid any unnecessary stress to the lightning jack, and yea it doesn't look great but that's life - it's not that big a deal to me. Also, for the kinds of gigs I do I would be very nervous about putting any piece of electronic equipment on the floor. Again, if it works for you then it's all good, everybody has their preferred ways of doing it!

 

1 hour ago, pjd said:

Extension cables are a real boon. I don't like the short cable on most adapters (like Apple's). The short cable puts the stress of the adapter and attached cables on the Lightning jack. I recommend an extension cable between the iPad and adapter in order to put everything on the floor.

 

Yes as I mentioned the short cable on the CCK is a PITA. I did try a lightning extension cable from Amazon but it only works intermittently - did you find success with a particular brand? I'd be interested to know which one.

[SteinwayB]

Has anybody used Ipad (wich usb-c) with 3rd gen Focusrite interfaces?  I know settings need to be done with PC but once set how does it work with Ipad alone?

[allan_evett]

Yes, plenty of great suggestions posted here.  I've leaned toward hardware keyboard-only rigs in recent years, but like the OP am jumping into using iOS apps live.

I purchased a new iPad Pro 11" earlier this year, and converted a few books of band charts into Paperless Music. Also have been checking out some previously used instrument apps and adding a few new ones.  I'm moving toward using the iPad as a sound module live in the coming year - especially in combination with keyboards with onboard sounds (at the very least for emergency backup).

I've been using a Casio CT-S500 with the iPad during non-gig trips recently.  Combined with Cubasis 3, this setup has been great for hotel-room practice and writing.  The IK MM/Hammond B3-X app is becoming my go-to for recording clonewheel tracks, and after hearing demos - like Al Quinn's, above - I want to make it my go-to clone for stage. 

Also have started experimenting with an iPad and RD-88 combination.  For single-keys gigs where a light 88 is needed, but also a credible clone, etc., this cold be a great combination.  RD-88 USB to hub for MIDI, hub 1/8" audio out to 1/8" audio in of RD; simple 'n solid so far. 

I've been using this USB-C hub:

 

It's worked out well, with the 'hanging' cable being thick and durable; so minimal strain on the C port.  Still may spring for one of j5 create's Ultradrive hubs, which connects directly, and use this as a backup.  

 

Have looked at a couple MIDI and audio multi-routing options, and currently have AUM. Though I am drawn to more straightforward, matrix-style apps, and having MIDI and audio separate would work fine. When gigging with rack modules (many years, no, decades ago! ), I used a Digital Music MX-8  programmable MIDI Router amd separate mixer, so a similar skeuomorphic layout would be awesome!

[drawback]

Although more purpose-designed for video, I like the way this one attaches to the iPad Pro. 

 

 

[pjd]

15 hours ago, Reezekeys said:

 

Also, for the kinds of gigs I do I would be very nervous about putting any piece of electronic equipment on the floor. Again, if it works for you then it's all good, everybody has their preferred ways of doing it!

 

Yes as I mentioned the short cable on the CCK is a PITA. I did try a lightning extension cable from Amazon but it only works intermittently - did you find success with a particular brand? I'd be interested to know which one.

 

Amen to "all good." I enjoy reading the different solutions posted by folks. Never can have enough ideas.

 

I thought about putting all the pieces and parts into one of those weatherproof boxes for stringing Christmas lights. I hear ya about nervousness -- we have choir members who insist on tripping their way through the musicians "pit" instead of walking another 10 feet to the other end of the choir area. Cheesh.

 

The Lightning extension cable is from Amazon -- got two (silver and black). Both are working fine. Brand is DESOFICON, $10USD, 6ft and claims to be Apple MFi Certified.

 

Fortunately, this stuff isn't too expensive -- pj

 

[Reezekeys]

Thanks for the recc, I'm gonna chance one of those cables. I looked at the Amazon page for the one I bought and sure enough there's no mention of MFi certification. They offer a  "2-year free replacement/refund" but I'm not sure it's worth the trouble to deal with, not for an $8 cable (I know I don't want a replacement).

 

Regarding our gear and placing it on the floor - I learned my lesson the hard way when a guest looking for a shortcut at a wedding I was playing stepped on my laptop, which I thought was safely out of anybody's way.

[Stokely]

My solution for "small bits and bobs on the floor" is to use a pedalboard.  No actual pedals on it    It keeps things off the floor and as much as possible is pre-wired, especially all the darn wall warts.  I realize you can get the eventide power brick or similar to get rid of the warts.

Funny, I'm completely "in the box" at home, no urge to hook up hardware, all fx and sounds are coming from my laptop...and I'm the other way live.  I've successfully gigged with an ipad now for well over a year yet I prefer hardware keyboards live.  I might eventually go with a tabletop synth to go with my current two keyboards...though I reckon in a blind test I might be hard pressed to pick it over an ipad.  Kinda illogical