OT: Journey $ Drama, Cain vs Schon

[ElmerJFudd]

Apparently Schon wants to see CC statements that are being hidden from him.  Cain says Neal can see all the statements he likes, it’s not going to change spending limits set on the card which apparently Neal abuses because he lives extravagantly.  

[timwat]

I'm pretty sure when you start taking bandmates to court over credit card statements, you're doing it wrong.

[ElmerJFudd]

6 minutes ago, timwat said:

I'm pretty sure when you start taking bandmates to court over credit card statements, you're doing it wrong.

https://www.loudersound.com/news/journey-are-suing-each-other-again-this-time-its-neal-schon-vs-jonathan-cain
 

https://www.loudersound.com/news/jonathan-cain-responds-to-neal-schon-lawsuit-accuses-him-of-malicious-lies

 

They’ve got some 40 dates with Toto lined up.  Best sort this out.  

[TommyRude]

dohhhhhhhh...... man o man.  Don't see how you can continue on after this

[nursers]

What a train wreck 🙄

[Ivan May]

There's a guy named Harmless Dave, The Real Music Observer on YouTube who pretty much dedicates 90% of his videos to Journey. He is totally obsessed with the group, and unsurprisingly, he has been posting nonstop about the Cain/Schon lawsuit.

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe Harmless Dave can actually conduct an interview with Neal Schon and get his side of the story, rather than jumping to conclusions.

[Bill H.]

^ Man I dunno... I got a couple minutes into that first video, and after hearing him utter the words Clinton News Network and seeing The Real Anthony Fauci prominently displayed on his bookshelf - it's hard to take this guy as an impartial observer. 

 

A quick Google search of "Cain Schon feud" turned up a bunch of hits for a bunch of stuff. These guys have been going after each other through the courts for years - as have practically every other member of Journey. My guess is that they'll patch it up and continue to tour. The livelihood of at least one member (Schon) depends on it. 

[ABECK]

29 minutes ago, Bill H. said:

^ Man I dunno... I got a couple minutes into that first video, and after hearing him utter the words Clinton News Network and seeing The Real Anthony Fauci prominently displayed on his bookshelf - it's hard to take this guy as an impartial observer. 

 

How does either make him impartial in this matter?  (I mean, I get your point, but it's a bit of apples and oranges)

 

[Bill H.]

Yet another episode of "As Journey Turns": 

 

https://variety.com/2022/music/news/journey-cease-and-desist-dont-stop-believin-trump-rally-1235467595/

[Stokely]

I saw that today and thought that was what this thread was about.  I don't really follow the lives and times of musicians so all this is new to me.  And frankly, head in the sand is often better when it comes to knowing about content providers and what they think in "real life"...certain authors for example I'll never read again--as I don't want to give them my $-- due to their (to me) awful views on things.  

Even with a podunk band like the one I'm in, keeping away from politics is the way to go, IMO.     Our bass player has worn t-shirts that are on/over the line to me.  When we are hired by a venue as entertainment, it's not part of our job to rile up the "other side" who might be in the audience.   Obviously a big band like Journey is not hired by a venue so it's not quite the same.   But Schon is right if he's saying that you are risking alienating some % of your fan base.

What's kind of crazy is that my band has been together 10 years and we've always had a political split even as members have come and gone.  We've had hardcore so-called "liberals" and "conservatives" and people in a range between.    Not ONCE has politics come up in discussion, and that's a big reason we've been together 10 years.  If I ever join another band, that's a prerequisite, one of many.    We've had other areas of conflict, it's hard enough to keep a band together without politics getting involved!
 

I have a feeling this latest issue might spell the end for this thread in pretty short order

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, Stokely said:

my band has been together 10 years and we've always had a political split even as members have come and gone.  We've had hardcore so-called "liberals" and "conservatives" and people in a range between.    Not ONCE has politics come up in discussion, and that's a big reason we've been together 10 years.

The "no politics" rule works well on this forum also.

 

Cheers, Mike

[GRollins]

Music is often about politics. Look at all the protest songs about the Vietnam war and racial stuff back in the '60s for starters. How can you separate them without creating a gaping hole of music-we-can't-talk-about? Wouldn't that be a little conspicuous?

 

Grey

[Stokely]

Good point.  I think in my case, I'm in a for-hire cover band and not doing originals that might have something to say   I mean, we could get political, but depending on which "side" we pick we'd lose a lot of gigs very quickly.  I'm in Florida, ymmv in other locales.   I played briefly with a guy doing originals that thought it was a good idea to launch f-bombs while talking to the audience.  Just as unprofessional IMO.  You gain nothing and risk losing gigs by acting that way.

Our "no politics" unspoken law is not about the songs or music.  In fact we stick with our common ground, which is music.   My buddy's band has a lot of political banter and they are fine with that, I wouldn't be.

Journey's songs are about as far from political as music can get.  We aren't talking "Somthing's Happening Here" when it comes to Don't Stop Believin'.  So Schon is right pointing out that a lot of fans are going to be surprised and perhaps unhappy that it's being co-opted for this use.  But whatever, I don't really care either way what big stars get up to, I have my own dramas!

[RABid]

These are the type of bandmates that make Steve Perry look good. They have all criticized him for being arrogant and controlling, but he had the voice and wrote the songs that made them into a supergroup. He went longer than I would have before putting out a solo album.

[TommyRude]

man this just gets worse and worse.  They're still advertising 2023 tour dates.  I guess they 'could' continue to tour, the stage is large, they could enter from opposite sides, never actually interact or look at each other during the show.  That's probably common for lots of famous groups.  After years and years of playing together, folks grow to dislike each other, but carry on because the financial rewards outweigh the drama.  And audiences either don't know or don't care about the drama.

[Adan]

I would think it's mainly a contract/IP dispute.  There's no prohibition in the law on playing music in a political context.  The question is whether Schon can prevent Cain from representing himself as "Journey" or play Journey-penned songs, period.

[TommyRude]

Here's their 2023 tour date page.  Some possible dialog to accompany this pic;

Cain:  "F*** you!"

Schoen: "F*** you too!"

Pineda:  "Noooo guys noooo!!!"

 

[MotiDave]

On 11/23/2022 at 7:53 AM, Bill H. said:

^ Man I dunno... I got a couple minutes into that first video, and after hearing him utter the words Clinton News Network and seeing The Real Anthony Fauci prominently displayed on his bookshelf - it's hard to take this guy as an impartial observer. 

 

A quick Google search of "Cain Schon feud" turned up a bunch of hits for a bunch of stuff. These guys have been going after each other through the courts for years - as have practically every other member of Journey. My guess is that they'll patch it up and continue to tour. The livelihood of at least one member (Schon) depends on it. 

I haven’t paid much attention but it sounds like Cain’s wife is right wing active, and Schon is pretty hard left and hates Cain plays to right wing audiences.  Anyone jumping into the fray with obvious political phrases or books displayed in the video frame probably isn’t unbiased.  I didn’t care enough to listen to him even if he’s unbiased.

 

And yeah - their lawsuits and fighting go way back a long time before these latest personality / political based differences from what I’ve heard.   No idea bout the merits of the CC dispute Cain filed.  Just in general a high limit band credit card that one guy can ring things up on without any spend checks or band input doesn’t sound like a good idea, especially if he’s not great friends with the others.  I’d think he should use his own accounts and submit expenses to the band in a more financially controlled process.  But hey - not my band.

[Steve Nathan]

Without getting political, this fight has been about politics first and money as a result of politics all along.  Cain is married to Paula White. Both are deeply connected to the former President and much of the so-called White Christian Nationalist movement.  Schon is solidly on the Progressive end of the political spectrum.  I won't comment on my personal politics here in the KC, but wanted to illustrate that in this fight, each is convinced that the other's politics are damaging the Journey brand which ultimately means less money.  There's a similar dynamic between Richie Furay and some of the former members of Buffalo Springfield and Poco, though it hasn't risen to this level publicly.  

[D. Gauss]

It's called "corporate rock" for a reason...

[hurricane hugo]

that credit card will be their doom

hit Amazon for cheap perfume

billable hours never end

they go on and on and on and on and on

[Adan]

16 hours ago, Steve Nathan said:

Without getting political, this fight has been about politics first and money as a result of politics all along.  Cain is married to Paula White. Both are deeply connected to the former President and much of the so-called White Christian Nationalist movement.  Schon is solidly on the Progressive end of the political spectrum.  I won't comment on my personal politics here in the KC, but wanted to illustrate that in this fight, each is convinced that the other's politics are damaging the Journey brand which ultimately means less money.  There's a similar dynamic between Richie Furay and some of the former members of Buffalo Springfield and Poco, though it hasn't risen to this level publicly.  

Good points, because in court you have to prove not only that someone violated the law or broke a contract, but also that you were harmed by it.  This could be the stuff of a very bad civil law procedural, with one guy claiming the band is losing fans, the other arguing no fans or revenue lost, just shifting the fan base left or right on the spectrum, the verdict right after this commercial break.  I'd rather watch a jazz documentary, but I'm sure tons of folks would tune in . . .

[mate stubb]

Journey ended for me when Gregg left.

[mcgoo]

2 hours ago, mate stubb said:

Journey ended for me when Gregg left.

 

Not so for me but the crap going on between Schon and Cain, along with the firings of Valery and Smith have soured my interest in the band. I have zero interest in supporting an obvious money grab, which is what a tour would be in their current situation. And I couldn't care less about either of their political stances. 

[Bill H.]

Journey has hired a new manager to take over the former co-managing duties of Cain and Shon:

 

https://www.billboard.com/pro/journey-new-manager-mike-kobayashi/

 

According to the article, gross from last year's tour was $39.9 million 🤯 When money's that serious, they'll continue to play together onstage - even if they're not on speaking terms. Been in bands that have done this... and for far less money. Kobayashi has his work cut out for him though. 

 

 

 

[Anderton]

They're blowing a fantastic opportunity. They have a chance to say "We're in total disagreement about politics, but music is our common ground. We hope that our music can provide a common ground for our fans, and prove there are at least some things we can all agree about."

 

In other words, play up the political differences - to show that people with different ideologies don't have to see each other as enemies. The only problem, of course, is that all concerned would have to act like adults.

 

I have several friends, both right and left-leaning, whose politics I disagree with. But the reality is that if any of us were stuck in a broken-down car on a highway at 3 AM, any one of us would go to help. And if any of us were invited to a barbeque, last time I checked, spare ribs don't have a political affiliation

 

 

[GRollins]

That's 'cause ribs ain't politics...they's religion...least-a-ways that's the way it is 'round these parts!

 

Grey

[Dave Bryce]

7 minutes ago, GRollins said:

That's 'cause ribs ain't politics...they's religion...least-a-ways that's the way it is 'round these parts!

 

Especially baby backs. 🥰

 

dB

[o0Ampy0o]

It just shows how good at singing Perry Arnel Pineda is. They exist fighting between one another today only because of Arnel.  Arnel doesn’t need all their BS and rigorous singer unfriendly touring. He has made his mark and could have a solo career. He has had some down time to do non-Journey work proving how good he can sing outside that context. He must have caught the fame and stadium crowd adulation bug and they have him locked into a lucrative and restricted contract. 
 

Schon and Cain are both too extreme to continue on like this forever. Schon is crazy and he has a wife that exacerbates problems.  There is no talking sense about it. Does anyone really care whether Cain is there playing keyboards? He was great at co-composing songs but he is not unique as a keyboardist. The single lifelong standing member who has had the distinct signature style, Schon, with the greatest Perry fill in one could hope for is all it takes to be Journey. Schon could cut Cain out. If he succeeded he would probably drive the band into the land of burned bridges and insurmountable debt.
 

 

[o0Ampy0o]

2 hours ago, Anderton said:

They're blowing a fantastic opportunity. They have a chance to say "We're in total disagreement about politics, but music is our common ground. We hope that our music can provide a common ground for our fans, and prove there are at least some things we can all agree about."

 

In other words, play up the political differences - to show that people with different ideologies don't have to see each other as enemies. The only problem, of course, is that all concerned would have to act like adults.

 

I have several friends, both right and left-leaning, whose politics I disagree with. But the reality is that if any of us were stuck in a broken-down car on a highway at 3 AM, any one of us would go to help. And if any of us were invited to a barbeque, last time I checked, spare ribs don't have a political affiliation

 

 

That would require a rational mind.