What you bring to the table

[Outkaster]

I know we have talked about things like this on other threads but I think it’s important. Realizing your self-worth isn’t something that musicians probably consciously think about but the last couple years have been a revelation to me.   I play in two bands.  One a couple hours from me and another here locally.  Both of them never had a keyboard player but wanted to try me out.  One band was an easy fit because I knew the style pretty well. I am kind of an add-on as a musician in that scenario.  So far I have done 8 gigs with them. Last night when I got off stage I got a lot of compliments.  A couple guys said that they never could tell I wasn’t part of the band, or they just gave compliments on my playing.  The other band is far away but great people and easy to work with.  They do original music as well and the keyboards were an afterthought. Th horn section is killer so I just tired to put parts in where I thought they should go even though it was a little awkward at times.  Some of the music is written in pain in the as keys but I made it work.

 

As a keyboard player I finally realized after all these years that I had something to offer.  Keyboard players put up with a lot from other musicians because they don’t understand our instrument or our struggles to fit into music.  I am starting to realize that in some ways we hold some of cards. A lot our playing actually can elevate a band.  Other instruments don’t do that as much I don’t think.  There are certain, lines, melodies and rhythmic qualities keyboards can add.  We can make a dull band sound good.  At a point we can almost write our own ticket. Keep in mind what  your bring to the table when you get down or frustrated with your own music career.

[ElmerJFudd]

Hmmm.  That’s a tricky assessment.  Every instrument in an ensemble has a function or job to do.  When one is absent it makes a noticeable difference, at least to invested listeners.  This is why so many acts use tracks/stems today live - because comparatively a duo or trio just can’t sound like an orchestra. With a keyboard player, you need a lot less material on backing tracks, that’s for sure. Or none at all, which provides musical freedom to play with the set list. tempo, change up the arrangements, etc. In addition to playing traditional keyboard parts - we can make up for most any absent instrument.  That’s pretty valuable. And if you sing. as many of us do, that should equal 3 people’s cut.  😊

[yannis D]

I agree with many of your assumptions but one: i believe that others are more important than we are, especially drummers. In most of today's music the rhythmic element is the high point of the performance and the drummer's playing defines the overall performance.

 

So yes, we add a lot in the sauce and bring many many colours and qualities, that's why we are important. But IMO we're not the most important part in most of today music genres (unless you talk jazz trio or chamber music) and I am oerfectylhaopy with that. After all my mistakes are far less decisive to the drummer's 😂😂😂

[Adan]

It's always been obvious to me that keyboard players have more opportunities just because of supply and demand, in contrast with guitar players where supply far exceeds demand.  I also think it's in the nature of what we do that egos enter into it less than the guys who tend to be out front in the spotlight, which also makes it easier for us to fit into different situations.

 

I've been able to gig as much as I wanted mainly by virtue of being a pocket player, always bringing a good groove and being able to lock in with other groove players.  I'm a mediocre soloist no matter how much I work on it, but I "compensate" by not trying to do too much.  Keep it simple, try to say something with fewer notes.

[AnotherScott]

5 minutes ago, yannis D said:

i believe that others are more important than we are, especially drummers singers.

Fixed. ;-)

[yannis D]

1 minute ago, AnotherScott said:

Fixed. 😉

Sorry 

I thought we were talking about musicians 😂😂

[JamPro]

2 minutes ago, yannis D said:

Sorry 

I thought we were talking about musicians 😂😂

Oh No You Diant!!!!  lol

[Stokely]

Good topic!

I bring a spirit of compromise, as milquetoast as that might sound   Bands (at my weekend warrior level anyway) fall apart because nobody budges from their positions on anything.  Live sound is a compromise for everyone.   I've had run ins with hotheads in bands and I have no time for it.

I can't solo worth a darn, can't read music and am pretty limited in genres I can play.  I prefer rhythm and being the "glue"--which probably means to some I'm background--but to me it means finding the right inversions to fit in and riffs for the right spots.  I often don't have set patches for songs, preferring to try out a new sound or approach...this wouldn't work well in a modern dance band but I'm not in one of those   

I bring really good harmonies and some lead vocals including a mean falsetto for those Eagles and other tunes.  I'm a wanna be tenor but it's not to be.  Baritone it is.  Our band takes a lot of pride in vocals without tracks and without harmonizers, doing vocal-only practices once in a while.   

[ProfD]

KB players can bring the gamut to the table from just sitting down and playing keys up to prepping backing tracks with stems to include replacing drummers. 😁

 

It's really up to the musician to have the talent, knowledge, skill and confidence to maximize their value and what they offer to a musical situation. 😎

[KuruPrionz]

22 minutes ago, Adan said:

It's always been obvious to me that keyboard players have more opportunities just because of supply and demand, in contrast with guitar players where supply far exceeds demand.  I also think it's in the nature of what we do that egos enter into it less than the guys who tend to be out front in the spotlight, which also makes it easier for us to fit into different situations.

 

I've been able to gig as much as I wanted mainly by virtue of being a pocket player, always bringing a good groove and being able to lock in with other groove players.  I'm a mediocre soloist no matter how much I work on it, but I "compensate" by not trying to do too much.  Keep it simple, try to say something with fewer notes.

Who is most important depends entirely on context. Yes, there are more guitarists if you are just counting people who own guitars but not if you are only counting accomplished players who know the craft. I've seen great bands with no guitarist and also with no keyboardist. I've seen great solo acts (usually either guitarists or keyboardists). 

 

Instead of "going by the numbers", value yourself for what you bring to the music. It might be that your lead vocal (or harmonies) are more important to one song than anything you could play on your instrument - regardless of which instrument that happens to be. 

For a dance band, a drummer and bassist who can lock a groove are solid gold, add a great singer and everybody else are just sidemen. 

For other musics, the game changes and there are no set patterns to describe "who is the most important."

Obviously, Herbie Hancock was the most important member of HIS band but simply a superb sideman when he played with Miles Davis. 

Jimi Hendrix was Jimi Hendrix, one of his most iconic recordings is a solo piece from Woodstock, the Star Spangled Banner. He usually went 3 piece with drums and bass but there are some great tracks on Electric Ladyland where Steve Winwood sits in on Hammond. 

 

The question is "What do you bring to the table", not "which instrument is more highly rated by a biased cross-section of musicians. 😇

Me? At 67, with my first gig being at age 14, I am quick on the draw in a dance music situation, I can backup or solo on the fly, sing lead or harmony (I'm better at harmony but I'll do OK on lead vocal too) and I can play bass (I'd say "ask Bo Diddley but he has left us, RIP). MOST IMPORTANT, you will never hear me smearing a lead vocal with a noodle doodle, I always play subtle underneath parts when somebody is singing - or I play nothing at all if that's what serves the song. 

 

Just be you, be proud of what you are capable of doing, be positive with your interactions with others, know when not to play and HAVE FUN!

 

It's pretty simple. 

[nadroj]

I’d say in most bands a skilled keyboard player is what separates a good band from a great band. Good players bring an edge that sets the band apart from others. 
 

To use a sports analogy: we’re a support player. We don’t often score or get the attention ourselves, but we set up the rest of our team for the win. 
 

To use a DnD analogy: we’re the party member who provides buffs for the other party members. 
 

To use a music analogy: we hide the mistakes and reduce the exposure of bad guitarists 😁

[Adan]

Statistics matter.  I was a single, straight male in Seattle for 5 years, then was the same in San Francisco for 5 more (before meeting the woman is now my wife, which is relevant only as a time-box).  The different contexts made a huge difference in the dating opportunities.  

 

But once you're dating and especially once you're in a relationship, you have to make it work and that's where the statistics fade away in importance.  I like the theme in this thread that "what you bring to the table" is often as much about personality as talent.

[El Lobo]

I'm appreciating the comments in this thread, if for no other reason than there are active players saying things like "I'm not that good at soloing."  I'm certainly not, but I think I know how to stay in my lane and craft an acceptable rhythmic and musical solo. I'm a pretty good KB rhythm player within the genres that my main band plays (blues, rock, R&B). I double on sax and I'm a much better sax player than I am a keyboard player. I'm grateful that my band continues to let me play keyboard in addition to sax because I enjoy it so much. I know what I bring to the table. One of the main things is "works and plays well with others." My guitar player recently said that he appreciates being in a band with me. I like to rehearse, I know music theory, I'm interested in playing the music correctly and well, and I enjoy playing live music at what I call my advanced age. A lot of what I bring to the table is a good attitude. Good music and good fun results. 

[El Lobo]

6 minutes ago, Adan said:

... "what you bring to the table" is often as much about personality as talent.

what he said

[Old No7]

2 hours ago, Outkaster said:

There are certain, lines, melodies and rhythmic qualities keyboards can add.

 

Interesting discussion.  For sure, I would add sounds, effects and sonic textures to the above short list.  But as Adan (hello there, long time no see, sure hope you're doing well!) had noted, personality and attitude are important too.

 

 

1 hour ago, nadroj said:

I’d say in most bands a skilled keyboard player is what separates a good band from a great band. Good players bring an edge that sets the band apart from others. 
 

To use a sports analogy.......

 

Well, just as there are different sports, there are different styles and genres of music too.

 

Bands without keyboards could cover some Billy Joel, Elton John, Journey or Foreigner tunes (etc., etc.), but keyboards are essential to many songs, bands or styles -- not just an afterthought or a nice addition.

 

After all, ELP without the "E" would be LP -- a Lackluster Performance.

 

Old No7

[Bobbo Fett]

1 hour ago, yannis D said:

Sorry 

I thought we were talking about musicians 😂😂

Oh yeah. Try doing a bar gig without one, see how much repeat biz YOU get. They're a neccessary evil, like it or not. And since they ARE, I always pray for a good one who's NOT a headcase.....far too often, my prayers fall upon deaf ears with the music gods......

[Bobbo Fett]

Around these parts "Power Trio" blues acts rule the bar scene, along with guys doing an acoustic guitar and looper thing....most of my gigs end up being solo, with the occaisional fill in with a band.....with this in mind, what I usually bring to the table is a covered dish, maybe mac and cheese or some such thing.....

[Stokely]

I get the impression--and I don't get out that much to hobnob with other bands like our singer and guitarist do--that there is a shortage of good keyboard players around here.  Partly because the pros are doing pro gigs, this is true for any instrument and singer.   First question those guys ask is "when are the gigs and how much do they pay", because of course that is their livelihood.   What I see is that a lot of bands just go without keys, whether by choice or out of necessity.  Not talking the modern pop/dance bands but the ones similar to my own, classic rock/pop with some older dance tunes.  Or (ugh) they just karaoke the keys in on tracks.

[MathOfInsects]

I am always suspicious of people's self-reporting of their strengths as a musician, since songs or situations all call for different "us's." I can tell you what I try to bring to the table, which is that I will always endeavor to show up prepared, and I will never be a dick to you or to the employees of the venue, at least not beyond my general resting dickish state.

[ElmerJFudd]

All the more reason to retain oneself as the piano in a piano trio and do some "real work". 

 

(the solo pianists cackle "wtf" from the peanut gallery)

 

(the solo organists cackle, "wtf" from the across the theatre)

[KuruPrionz]

50 minutes ago, Adan said:

Statistics matter.  I was a single, straight male in Seattle for 5 years, then was the same in San Francisco for 5 more (before meeting the woman is now my wife, which is relevant only as a time-box).  The different contexts made a huge difference in the dating opportunities.  

 

But once you're dating and especially once you're in a relationship, you have to make it work and that's where the statistics fade away in importance.  I like the theme in this thread that "what you bring to the table" is often as much about personality as talent.

OK, statistics matter.

First, to explain how I arrive at my statistics, I'm certain we've all been in bands where somebody not only "over plays" but also "plays over", in general that means they think it's "solo time all the time". Sometimes it means they are simply oblivious to the "crowded frequency range" they have created. I know a variety of players like that. I don't want to be in bands with them. 

 

Regarding keyboard players, my pet peeve is that some (not all but in my experience, probably pretty close to 50% - there's your statistic) learned with their lessons from Mrs. Snorkel that playing the bass line with their left hand will make a piano sound fuller. This is true but it's a train wreck if you have a good, solid bassist taking care of the low end. 

The Motown Band I was in had a keyboard player who understood that perfectly. He had 2 boards and always played strings or horn jabs or other useful things with his left hand. We had a great bassist and he never trampled over the bass part. 

On the other hand, I've played with too many (there should be zero, another statistic) keyboard players who are so habituated to pummeling away with the bass notes on the left that they cannot seem to stop themselves, even when asked nicely one-on-one to quit messing up the bass part. As far as I'm concerned, they can start their own band and I will not audition for it unless there is no bassist and their left hand is amazing - so far that has happened exactly once. 

[Adan]

10 minutes ago, KuruPrionz said:

 

Regarding keyboard players, my pet peeve is that

Check the thread topic.  The question posed was not "what annoys you about most keyboard players?"

 

You enjoy a lively, slightly contentious debate.  I get that.  

[timwat]

3 hours ago, Outkaster said:

Keep in mind what  your bring to the table when you get down or frustrated with your own music career.

 

Some gear, some years, two ears, a brain, and a heart.

[JohnH]

The only time a keyboard player should be playing a bass line is if it's an extra grand piano track on the sang like the one that doubled the bass line,like Eddie Money's Two Tickets, or you're playing the Rhodes bass part that is an octave above Larry Knectel's bass line on Light My Fire.

[KuruPrionz]

26 minutes ago, Adan said:

Check the thread topic.  The question posed was not "what annoys you about most keyboard players?"

 

You enjoy a lively, slightly contentious debate.  I get that.  

True,, and the thread title is not "how I met my wife" either, is it? 😇

[Delaware Dave]

3 hours ago, ProfD said:

KB players can bring the gamut to the table

Amen.  In one of my bands I play sax, brass, strings, pianos, ep's, organ, synth, yada yada yada.  I've always scratched my head when I see a three piece band looking for that fourth piece and they're looking for another guitar.  I think to myself wouldn't a keyboard player add more overall value to the sound than a 2nd guitar player who is basically playing rhythm guitar?  Keys can also hold down the rhythm plus soundwise can add a whole lot more.  

 

Also, contrary to popular belief in other areas of the country and the globe, I don't find keyboard players being in high demand.  I recently saw a 4 piece John Fogerty cover band and asked them if they ever thought about adding keys, they said they thought about it but didn't see the value of adding keys vs. what the keys would add to the sound.  Hmmm........

 

P.S. about 10-15 years ago I saw a Peter Frampton cover band, had almost the exact same response.  Apparently never heard of Bob Mayo.

[Bobbo Fett]

51 minutes ago, JohnH said:

The only time a keyboard player should be playing a bass line is if it's an extra grand piano track on the sang like the one that doubled the bass line,like Eddie Money's Two Tickets, or you're playing the Rhodes bass part that is an octave above Larry Knectel's bass line on Light My Fire.

Also, I like the sound of it on country tunes when the bass is walkin', like the bridge in "You Don't Have To Call Me Darlin'" or whatever that David Allen Coe tune is....of course, this requires a pre song convo with the bass player to make sure you're both playing the same thing....

[RABid]

What I bring to the table has changed a lot over the years. In the beginning I was a rock and roll drummer combined with a classical pianist who only learned piano parts by reading music. I switched from drums to keyboards to join a band that was on a higher level than my current band. What I brought to the table at that time was a keen sense of timing and the ability to lock onto the groove. This really came into play as I developed my rhythm organ skills. Lead guitarists loved playing with me. Eventually what I brought to the band was a willingness to cover any instrument and tackle any solo. Saxophone, flute, harmonica. If it was not a guitar solo, it was mine. I was happy to have meaningful parts to play. Last of all, once my playing matured what I brought to the band is imagination. My influences were not keyboard players. I was trying to emulate Adrain Blue's guitar, or Jon Smith's (Edgar Winter's White Trash: Roadwork) saxophone. I wanted my synth leads to growl and scream and whale and squeal. I finally got there but it was not all roses. I was in a modern music band, led by two singers who were stuck in the 60's. We were playing Talking Heads, Peter Gabriel and Reflex, but they wanted two fisted piano. They finally told me that I would be replaced because I was not doing what they wanted. The next night the manager came to the show and that is also the night I was turned loose to play exactly the way I wanted. That night the manager told the singers that they had better do anything and everything to keep me. After that I became the wall, the last thing I brought to that band. Not just a wall of sound, which I was. Also, a wall between the singers and the back line. When I joined the band I replaced the last of the original back line musicians. The female singer and the male singer/guitarist had and alliance and total control. When the manager deemed me unreplaceable the dynamic changed. I deflected all the crap they had been throwing at the "lesser musicians". After a year they finally turned on each other. A band that was riding high in the cover scene for eight years finally imploded. Now what I bring to a band is nothing. I'm too old to put up with that crap, and having too much fun with my new partners Live, Bitwig, and Elektron.

[Tusker]

Increasingly, I think what I bring to the table is, I am an accompanist. Singers love singing with me and I love making them sound good. Sometimes it's with another instrument, like a horn or a guitar or a violin. In most sets we manage a moment of magic where two people are vibing against each other. There could be trading back and forth but usually I am the one providing the warm, supportive foundation. I like that! I guess that's how I am wired...

[DJkeys]

I think one of the things I contribute to the bands I play in is an ability to program all of the signature tones needed for the song. This is a welcome challenge for me, as the 80s stuff like Madonna, Journey and Michael Jackson, along with modern songs from Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars and JT are keyboard heavy and require careful programming and assessment of the most important parts to play.  

 

-dj