Something new and interesting from Crumar!!!

[kenheeter]

 

[CEB]

I don't know about the retro style thing.  It's just not functional.  It could be great for hobbyist but those integrated case designs with the detachable lid do not offer adequate protection in transit.  You would still have to get a case for it.  But that is just me.

[SamuelBLupowitz]

3 minutes ago, CEB said:

I don't know about the retro style thing.  

I don’t know, it really appeals to me. Especially the open surface on top for tablets, small controllers, mixers, etc. I just got a CP88 so I’m not in the market, but a year ago I’d be investigating this as an alternative to, say, the Nord Grand. But that’s just from this initial impression — I haven’t looked at action, weight, number of keys available, or anything yet.

[nadroj]

[AnotherScott]

15 minutes ago, CEB said:

I don't know about the retro style thing.  It's just not functional.  It could be great for hobbyist but those integrated case designs with the detachable lid do not offer adequate protection in transit.  You would still have to get a case for it.  But that is just me.

They may be thinking the same... because I don't see any hardware to be able to attach a lid, so I'm not sure there is one! It could just have that bottom enclosure look for the aesthetic. 

 

I find this appealing. I also think in a way, having added an LED display (useful, but unusual for Crumar), they almost need to go overboard in the other direction, in terms of styling, to maintain a retro vibe. I think you kind of see that philosophy on the Mojo Desktop, too.

[Bobbo Fett]

IDK....looks awkward for schlepping, and, to be honest, I don't really feel blown away by the sound, for some reason. Not enough to dump other gear I have to make room, anyway......

[cassdad]

Well, ok, I suppose anyone can find negatives with any keyboard.  But, to me, that piano sounds fantastic!  I hear highs and “hammer attack” that I just do not hear on my Yamaha  (and I’m a Yamaha fan).  I’d love to know more about that keyboard…. on Sweetwater, I can only find a “Seven”, (which has both a cover & legs at 52 pounds) and this shows as a “Seventeen”.  (It must be 10 more of something!….. 🙂 )

[Al Coda]

1 hour ago, CEB said:

... those integrated case designs with the detachable lid do not offer adequate protection in transit.  You would still have to get a case for it.  But that is just me.

 

I agree.

 

IMO, the 2 lit pots/encoders are too big or should be in a lower position.

When you put a deeper instrument (synth p.ex.) on Seventeen´s flat top and want that instrument´s keys closer to yourself (as the performer), it might touch the pots/encoders or make ´em unusable.

It becomes obvious at 0:17 - 0:25 sec in the vid,- at least for me.

 

Otherwise I like the look and the piano sounds good too for my ears.

I was used to have a ATA flightcase for my Fender Rhodes in the past.

 

☺️

 

A.C.

[ElmerJFudd]

TP-40? 

[Bill H.]

73 E to E (@ 1:05). Definitely has a specific look that's going to appeal a certain type of player - and to videos. The top seems designed to discourage putting anything up there. It's too narrow with no edges, and looks slick. I don't even know if a cell phone would be safe. Hopefully it comes with the legs - which it would almost have to to complete the package. 

 

I like funky things - just don't have a use for it. And I would prefer 88 keys. 

[Al Coda]

7 minutes ago, Bill H. said:

The top seems designed to discourage putting anything up there. It's too narrow with no edges, and looks slick. I don't even know if a cell phone would be safe.

 

I´d put (or glue) a non slip mat on it.

 

 

34 minutes ago, ElmerJFudd said:

TP-40? 

 

TP-110 ... TP400 ???

[bjosko]

TP 410 ? 😅

[Baggypants]

Finally, Crumars answer to the Roland:Go

[ElmerJFudd]

Max can make anything sing.  That said, I have to say as far as acoustic piano sound - this is as good an AP patch as we’ve heard from Crumar.  

[HammondDave]

Agree with most of the comments above... but this is just a tease. I would guess that it uses the TP110. Let's hear more about this...  

 

The profile reminds me of my G101 (The top green organ in the photo below).

 

 

[jeffincltnc]

3 initial impressions:

 

1. I think it's ugly

2. I think the piano sounds like it's from the 2000s decade.

3. I don't trust the reliability of Crumar piano products like Seven for frequent gigging.

 

Other than that, it's great.

[kenheeter]

Wow!

[pawelsz]

Shape and color reminds me of RMI Electra Piano 300A

[b3plyr]

I think Crumar products are technically great, and usually stylish. Unfortunately, the Seventeen reminds me of the control panel on our washing machine. Also need more keys. That being said, it is wait and see.

[Delaware Dave]

5 hours ago, ElmerJFudd said:

Max can make anything sing.  That said, I have to say as far as acoustic piano sound - this is as good an AP patch as we’ve heard from Crumar.  

 

That exact piano sample was released for the Seven and the Gemini module (it's a Yamaha C5). He also released a Steinway D-274 for the Seven and the Gemini module.  I have both of the samples loaded in my Gemini and can attest that they are in no way slouches, both pianos sound excellent and full across the keyboard spectrum.  Since it already exists in the Seven (a 73 note keyboard with a TP100 keybed) I once again find myself scratching my head about a similar offering in another 73 note keyboard and not at least an 88 key offering.  Since the sample exists in my Gemini and I wanted a dedicated piano I could purchase a cheap 88 note controller with an acceptable keybed and accomplish the same thing.  I dont know where Guido gets his market research and has determined that this something the market wants, a retro look, the old combo organ legs, 73 keys rather than 88 and no top to secure it for transport.  Not getting this offering, it's very niche.

 

[ElmerJFudd]

5 minutes ago, Delaware Dave said:

 

That exact piano sample was released for the Seven and the Gemini module (it's a Yamaha C5). He also released a Steinway D-274 for the Seven and the Gemini module.  I have both of the samples loaded inmy Gemini and can attest that they are in no way slouches, both pianos sound excellent and full across the keyboard spectrum.  Since it already exists in the Seven (a 73 note keyboard with a TP100 keybed) I once again find myself scratching my head about the same sample ina similar 73 note keyboard and not at least an 88 key offering.  Since the sample exists in my Gemini and I wanted a dedicated piano I could purchase a cheap 88 note controller with an acceptable keybed and accomplish the same thing.  I dont know where Guido gets his marketing feedback from as I fail to see how he will sell that many units of this keyboard especially the retro look, the old combo organ legs and no top secure it for transport.  Not getting this offering at all, it's very niche.

 

I’m trying to figure out what else may be unique about this board. Is it a host for the Gemini, so also has VB3 and VA synth engine?  Does it have internal amp and speakers?   What I don’t like about the Seven is it’s action, so was also curious if they went TP-40 on this one.  

[Mark Schmieder]

Not really sure what Crumar's piano history is, as I haven't paid attention to that brand, but this sounds like a Yamaha sample to me, yet less compressed and bright than usual. I'd like to hear it in a mix with other instruments, because in solo mode it does sound like it holds some promise.

 

I really dig the cabinet a lot! I like the color as well.

 

If this has a great electric piano and clavinet, I might be interested, especially if it has balanced hammer action (I've lost track of which is which amongst the Fatar series, as I haven't been in the market for a portable digital piano for many years now, due to having concluded that I'd likely go for a digital upright instead, either Yamaha or Kawai, or maybe Casio with the Bechstein samples).

[Mark Schmieder]

https://www.crumar.it/?a=showproduct&b=36

 

Actually, I think I had looked into this many years ago, and gave up on it ever coming out, but there were two other manufacturers who also planned to release physical modeling based digital keyboards, one of whom was going to embed Pianoteq as I recall (but I don't think that was Crumar).

 

I didn't see a Seventeen product page at the Crumar site; just the short demo video. So I'm not really sure how it relates to the Seven.

 

I gather the C5 sample-based add-on is recent for both the Seven and the new Seventeen. GSI did the Performer software plug-in. Did they do the e-pianos also, tweaking their VI's for use in the digital piano hardware models?

 

 

[HammondDave]

Is it April 1?

[MathOfInsects]

I guess I'm the outlier in that the form factor greatly appeals to me.

However, that piano sample does not. It might largely be the effects; hard to know without laying hands on.

[stoken6]

A 73-hammer with a flat-top should be an immediate sale to me. But weight and action is important. 

 

If you can't remove the underside "case" bit, and the top isn't deep enough to support a second board, then I'm going to fail it for weight and convenience. Crumar should have made the "front panel" more steeply raked vertically - more like the Korg SV1/2, Nord Grand or one of the Kawais - can't remember which. 

 

Cheers, Mike.

[nadroj]

I’m trying to withhold comment until I actually know what it does, but I’d agree with @Delaware Dave’s comment - where do they get their marketing info? 
 

The thing I’m really struggling with just now is knowing what will set this apart from the Seven. Judging by the control panel and additional features we can see…not a lot. The Seven also will at least hold a keyboard on it. This looks like it won’t. 

[SteveCoscia]

Sheetmusic stand?

[jeffincltnc]

I never see Crumar boards on the bandstand when I see live music out.   I see Nord Electros all the time every weekend.

 

I also see budget products every weekend like VR-09, MODX, etc. with plastic builds and less expensive components and keybeds.

 

This forum is where I see most of the Crumar owners/users and less so elsewhere other than their Facebook groups.   And that makes sense because the participants here know their ins and outs of the Hammond organ and Rhodes sounds are that they are trying to get.

 

Crumar could offer a product that a lot more people would buy by building the equivalents of Nord Electros with their soundset, such as a 73 key semi weighted piano/EP/organ all in one that would, as I believe, have a much more convincing sounset than the Nord (and Roland VR-09/730) competitors and they could sell it well below the $3,000 price tag for an Electro 6D 73 with the internals of the Mojo 61.  I think a lot more people would explore Crumar and buy this, if Crumar really wanted to grow into a size where they are more substantial than a 2-person company.

 

I don't think that's their direction and I think of these products as small batch productions that is aimed at a pretty narrow audience of buyers.

 

The only Crumar product that has ever given me much interest is a GSI product - Gemini modules.  Great product there, although no longer for me as I increase my productivity with Mainstage and software.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

On further thought... and addressing my own comment about no hardware for a top lid, multiple people's comments about why it's not 88 keys and what differentiates it from a Seven, what niche it serves, what's unique about it, why the front panel is angled the way it is, what market research would lead to this... I have a theory that addresses all of that: My guess is that this is exactly a Seven in a different skin.

 

The missing hardware for a detachable lid could simply be a matter of not having bothered to install the hinges on the prototype. The rest of the chassis is probably identical to the Seven except for the top panel. The sound generating electronics are probably the same as well. The action is probably one of the more current versions of the TP100 (TP110 or TP100LRG discussed in other threads). (Maybe graded?)

 

I think the goal was simply to offer a Seven variant which, from a marketing perspective, would emphasize piano rather than EP. and maybe let him get the cost down (possibly achievable by replacing a bunch of knobs and buttons with a multi-function LED... and also, maybe he did indeed leave the top lid off this one, though I'm still going to guess not).

 

I suspect the idea was to minimize any new fabrication, design, or sourcing. That would explain what looks like the same tolex exterior, the same legs, the same 73 keys, the more angled control surface (a way to get the extra "height" required for the LED panel without changing the overall dimensions/enclosure it had to fit in). So my guess is it probably has identical exterior dimensions, mostly the same interior electronics (allowing for the different control interface), and will weigh about the same.

 

The Seven was always pushed as primarily an EP. Not only is that in the Rhodes-like vibe of the exterior, but it was always marketed that way, and when initially shipped, it barely had a usable acoustic piano at all, certainly not one of the calibre of acoustic piano-oriented models that were being sold in its price range. But now, this many years later, Guido has developed a perfectly competitive piano sound to work with... but had no appropriate hardware to put it in. Yes, you could have it in your Seven, but with his having long put the resources into promoting the Seven as an EP (and built it around that visual aesthetic), acoustic piano in that model would remain a "look, now it does piano too!" feature. What's the best way to appeal to the (probably larger) market of "piano first" customers? Probably not by trying to sell them something he's spent years telling them isn't what they're looking for, where the look and the controls emphasize EP, where piano would always seem like the board's second class "also" function. What to do instead, and how to do it at minimal investment? Answer: Put the same electronics into a box with a new name, a less EP-specific aesthetic, a less EP-centric (effects-focussed) interface. And maybe try to make it a bit less expensive (the slab piano market being more crowded).

 

And even the name implies this is some kind of "seven" variation.

 

Yes, this is conjecture, I don't know for a fact that this was the strategy behind it's development. But if that were the strategy Guido had in mind, the Seventeen looks to me like what he would have done, and I think would do it nicely.