Yamaha CP88/YC88 vs. the rest

[funkyhammond]

19 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

They do vary, but I have it on good authority that you like at least some TP100 actions:

 

Haha, well, The Dexibell S3 isn't the Seven. But thanks for pointing that out. I'll have to go back to the store and try out the S3 some more. I didn't give it a proper try the first time.

 

@kenheeter I'm wondering if you feel that the Seven is less heavy/slow than your Nord with the TP100. That seems to be one of the common complaints about the TP100. Or how else would you describe the difference?

 

 

[kenheeter]

 I need to set the Nord up on top of the Seven. I'll try to do that in the next few days and report back.

 

[CyberGene]

I went through every single live set sound  today, tweaked it, played it a lot and absolutely loved them all, no exception! The keyboard is so nice and expressive, the effects are top notch and the direct control is very intuitive. Then I also connected my iPhone with the Mood App (Minimoog on steroids) and an expression pedal linked to the USB volume and all was very smooth and they are like bread and butter! I only wish there was an easier way to apply the split point to the external sound rather than going through the MIDI master menu... Maybe they can introduce some key-combinations (even if applying only to the first zone which will anyway be what most people stretch to). I have to think a bit more and will propose it to the IdeaScale.

 

However, as I explained, I have a minor issue with one effect encoder knob having no physical resistance and I'm considering returning it (it's a B-Stock item) and waiting for a new one. They listed the YC73 as available in at least two months, wheres there will be some YC88 availability after a month and I started wondering if I should go full in and take a YC88 instead. How do you compare the two actions? I love the BHS although a bit springy but it's still OK and I like that it's not tiring to play. How about the NWX action in the YC88? Is is still nimble and light feeling? Or is it unnecessarily heavy to target acoustic piano playing only? How does it feel for Rhodes and organs, compared to BHS?

[AnotherScott]

I greatly preferred the feeling of the 88 for pianos (acoustic and electric), though that was before the recent update with the velocity options which improved the playability of the 73, so the difference would not be the same today. Originally, I found 88 to be satisfying and 73 not; today I would find them both satisfying, even if likely to different degrees (I'd have to play them next to each other to be sure). Though also, the 88 did get a bit heavy feeling for my taste toward the lower keys, and the 73 doesn't have that issue. And I'm pretty sure the 73 would be more suitable for the times I'd need to play organ from the board. So all in all, for my usages, I suspect I might well actually prefer the 73 at this point, even if they had the same travel weight. (But since they don't, the 88 was out of the question for me anyway.)

[CyberGene]

Thomann replied to me regarding the encoder that has no resistance when turned. They say I can either just return the item and get refunded, or I can seek the local Yamaha service center for a repair or ship it to them for repair, however with the latter they say I may have to wait for a long time since there's a global shortage of spare parts. So, I contacted our local Yamaha service center and they said the most probable reason is grease leakage from the encoder which requires a replacement of the entire encoder, however the situation with spare parts is war-like (pun intended) and I may have to wait for months. In their opinion, it's not a huge problem and if the encoder works without skipping values, then it won't deteriorate further and will work as expected, only having no resistance. BTW, the organ volume encoder is somewhere in between, it has resistance but maybe halfway between the other encoders and the no-resistance one and I'm wondering if I have some bad encoder batch which may lead to other encoders gradually leaking grease...

 

I really don't know what to do. I'm inclined to just return this YC73 and wait for the new ones to arrive on May 31st which is 2 months wait. What would you do? Would you consider such a defect crucial and would you return a board if it had such an issue? It was a B-stock and €150 off but I wouldn't have purchased it if I knew about the issue. I thought I was purchasing a returned item with no defects whatsoever. An option is to ask local Yamaha service center if they can order the encoder(s) but let me keep the YC73 with me to use it until the spare parts arrive, in a month, two, a year, I don't care when it will ultimately get repaired. OTOH, I'm not sure if I'm OK with servicemen opening up an expensive keyboard and desoldering/soldering encoders to it. Yes, it's an easy repair but still...

[CyberGene]

19 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

though that was before the recent update with the velocity options which improved the playability of the 73

I noticed that I need to jump more on the keys to make Rhodes bark in the bass but it could be my weak left hand. What are your exact velocity settings? I'd be interested in testing them and see how they compare to the default.

[AnotherScott]

8 hours ago, CyberGene said:

What are your exact velocity settings? I'd be interested in testing them and see how they compare to the default.

I haven't spent much time on it, so I don't claim these are "best" for me, much less for anyone else, but having spent maybe 30 seconds on it, I came up with Depth 82, Offset 70, and was happy enough to stop. ;-)

[CyberGene]

After working more with the YC73 and an iOS synth, I think some shortcuts for easy control of the MIDI master functionality would be beneficial. So, I proposed the following on the IdeaScale:

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/287468

 

Quote

The ability to connect external MIDI devices (including iOS devices that receive MIDi and send audio back through the same USB cable) and configure 4 external MIDI zones is great and allows to easily extend the YC-instruments through an external synth or sound-module.

 

However, it requires going into the Master Keyboard settings page which is a bit tedious and has too many settings. It would be great if external zone settings were controlled directly through the Keys A/B panel, as though the external zones were internal ones. Reusing the split point would also be of great help, instead of having to set separate lower and upper limits. So, Master MIDI can be controlled through the keys A/B panel, as though it is a new "Keys C" panel.

 

With that in mind, I propose the following new shortcuts and functions:

• Pressing EXIT + Keys A/B button switches that panel to MIDI Master function and the two LED-s of the button (A and B) are both lit (denoting we're controlling external zones). Pressing the same combination again (or only the Keys A/B button alone) goes back to internal Keys A or B control.
• The "A" on/off switch is the MIDI master mode on/off switch.
• The "B" on/off switch is the current zone on/off switch.
• The category selector knob and its four LED-s are used to select one of the four internal zones. The zone 1 is selected by default, i.e. the "piano" LED is lit.
• The numeric LED screen next to the category shows the MIDI channel for the current zone.
• The rocker switch changes the MIDI channel
• Now, this is very helpful and important: the Split L/R button automatically applies the proper lower and upper limits, so the split point that is already configured for the live-set is also applied correspondingly for that external zone: L, R or L+R.
• If finer control over lower and upper limit is needed, those limits are also displayed in the two numeric LED screens in the effects sections and are controlled through either depth or rate knobs. If such a non-standard note limit is chosen (different than the regular L/R split), then the L/R split button LED-s become unlit.
• The octave shift buttons are reused as octave shift buttons. If +3 or -3 is required, then both LED of the corresponding button are lit.
• The EG/Filter button and knob are used for transposition. The knob has 11 segment LED-s and the button has two LED-s. When all are unlit, we have no transposition. When we have a positive transposition, the right button-LED is lit and the corresponding number of knob segments is also lit from left to right. Conversely, when negative transpose is configured, we have the left button-LED lit and a corresponding number of LED segments lit (from right to left though, so that we have a visual clue about direction).

 

I understand this might be a bit complicated to implement but it will be really useful and will make the YC-instruments even better MIDI controllers for direct control and live usage.

 

----

 

If all of the above is too much and since most people will use no more than one external MIDI zone, please provide shortcuts for at least the following:

• Master Keyboard mode on/off
• Easy configuration of split for zone 1 that uses the same split point as the one in the live-set. For instance EXIT + Split L/R button.
• Octave selection for zone 1. For instance EXIT + Octave buttons.

That will make for a much easier integration with a synth on an iOS device that behaves like just another internal zone.

 

If you feel that you like that idea, fee free to give a thumbs up 🙏🏻

[octa]

upvoted your idea CG. Seems like it's kind of similar to mine, but yours is much more thoroughly explained. It'd be useful if "USB audio to EXT" were available/possible: https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/286641

 

Also, being able to store USB audio volume level per live set would be cool. Saw that idea on there somewhere. Currently USB audio level defaults to 64 and I assign an expression pedal to adjust that parameter once live set is open. 

[CyberGene]

@octa thanks, I updated my idea to include USB volume stored in the live-set, as well as being directly controlled through EXIT + A/B Volume knob. I also reworded and refined my original idea. I’m not sure Yamaha will really be willing to implement such an advanced “Keys C” mode but at least they should implement the four important shortcuts:

- Enable/disable MIDI master (EXIT + Keys A/B button)

- Apply L, R or L+R split to external zone 1 (Exit + Split button)

- Change octave of external zone 1 (EXIT + Octave buttons)

- Change USB volume (EXIT + Volume knob)

[CyberGene]

I split up my idea into two separate ideas. The complex one is probably too much asking from Yamaha. But the four shortcuts are an easy task, yet powerful and saving a lot of time, so I extracted them into a new idea:

https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/287471
 

Please upvote it, if you like it 👍🏻
Here’s the content:

 

Add shortcuts for the most common external MIDI Master settings

 

Many people would use the Master Keyboard functionality in a simple way: have a single external MIDI zone and set a L/R split and octave for the external sound. Currently this would require a lot of menu diving: enable Master Keyboard mode, then set upper and lower note limits separately, set octave, optionally assign incoming USB audio volume to an expression pedal and finally change the volume through the pedal.

 

I suggest the following shortcuts:

- EXIT + Keys A/B button: Master Keyboard mode on/off

- EXIT + Keys Split L/R button: pressed repeatedly to cycle through external zone 1 being on either L, R or L+R. Uses the split point from the live-set

- EXIT + Keys Octave buttons: set octave for external MIDI zone 1

- EXIT + Keys Volume knob: change incoming USB audio volume

[CyberGene]

I returned the faulty YC73 to Thomann. I can order a new CP88 almost right away or a new YC73 in two months. All others will be available "after a few months". I'll beat the dead horse once again but how about CP88 vs YC73? 🤣 I know, apples vs oranges but still?

 

What I think I will like in CP88 (haven't tested it):

- Action. I'm mainly a classical pianist and a bit of jazz, I own a N1X and I appreciate a piano touch that is as close to real as possible.

- More acoustic piano voices

- I also love Rhodes but have never liked Hammond too much although I got interested in it with the YC recently.

- 88 keys

- I like that all sections are present and there are only the needed effects for pianos that are immediately accessible, no need to switch between A/B section.

 

What I like in the YC73

- More compact. Since I will use it more in band situations, I prefer shorter and lighter instrument

- Possibly lighter feeling action. I liked the BHS but it felt slightly springy and pushing against my fingers. Is it like that on the CP88?

- FM engine: although not a huge fan of cheesy FM-pianos, they sound so good on the YC73. Not sure if the sampled ones on the CP88 can be that good? FM pads are also pretty good.

- Portamento on mono-synths. Lead sounds without portamento sound very lame, not sure they are useful on the CP88. But OTOH I'm not sure how many synth lines I will play on a hammer action. I can also add iPhone apps to the CP88. I have a Hydrasynth too which I programmed for some kick-ass leads and pads.

- FM-organ engine. Well, my initial experiments were rather meh, sounds like toy synth but maybe it's me? Still a synth engine, not just some boring samples. Or maybe it's a prejudice, who knows.

- More effects.

 

BTW, I loved all the live-set preset sounds that come with YC73. And I read how many people are rather cold about non-piano and non-Rhodes sounds in the CP-instruments.

 

What's your take?

[pawelsz]

Three most important features of good digital piano:

 

1. Action

2. Action

3. Action

 

 

I would go with CP88/YC88 if the size is no problem. I think their action is very similar to P-515, unfortunately I haven't played CP/YC. 

[ElmerJFudd]

P-515, NWX (Natural Wood X) keyboard: wooden keys (white only), synthetic ebony and ivory keytops, escapement

Touch SensitivityHard2/Hard1/Medium/Soft1/Soft2/Fixed

 

CP88, NW-GH3 (Natural Wood Graded Hammer) keyboard: synthetic ebony and ivory keytops.  

Preset touch settings and an onboard velocity curve editor.  

 

I think if I want a quality action digital piano with speakers that is only getting moved around on occasion, the P-515 would be preferable.  If a quality action on the go is important and you need more amplification than onboard speakers typically deliver a CP or YC would be preferable.  

[CyberGene]

has anyone tried to put a small laptop on top of the CP88? I have a MacBook Air M1 (it's a rather small 13" notebook) and wondering if it can be put in the right part of the CP88. I'm still waiting for the CP88 to arrive and wondered how big that empty space is. On pictures it seems like it could just fit a laptop.The Air has a 30x21cm footprint.

[kaptainkeys]

1 minute ago, CyberGene said:

has anyone tried to put a small laptop on top of the CP88? I have a MacBook Air M1 (it's a rather small 13" notebook) and wondering if it can be put in the right part of the CP88. I'm still waiting for the CP88 to arrive and wondered how big that empty space is. On pictures it seems like it could just fit a laptop.The Air has a 30x21cm footprint.

The space is probably wide enough for the laptop, my worry would be the depth.  It would suck if you went to change a parameter on the computer and you knocked it onto the floor because it slid backwards.

[CyberGene]

5 minutes ago, GotKeys said:

my worry would be the depth.  It would suck if you went to change a parameter on the computer and you knocked it onto the floor because it slid backwards.

 

Yeah, I worry about that too. I've never researched how to use a laptop along with a keyboard in live situations. A very lame question but what's the "consensus" here? 😀 Are there any good additional laptop stands most people use? Or an extension/arm that can be attached to the existing keyboard stand?

[Coker]

The flat part is about 5-1/2 inches deep on the YC88.  It looks like the same housing as the CP88.

[kaptainkeys]

35 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

Are there any good additional laptop stands most people use? Or an extension/arm that can be attached to the existing keyboard stand?

Not sure what stands people use, there definitely are ones out there that can clamp on the keyboard stand, but I wouldn't put something like that on an X stand, because it would probably make it more wobbly.  The Studiologic and Arutria 88s have a shelf that is magnetic, but those are made specifically for those keyboards.

[Noah DC]

It’ll be killer if that Studiologic computer plate is compatible with the Numa X Piano 73 - instant new real estate to hold an iPad for extra sounds and a Korg Nanokontrol for drawbars and various other knobs and buttons…

[CyberGene]

42 minutes ago, Coker said:

The flat part is about 5-1/2 inches deep on the YC88.  It looks like the same housing as the CP88.

That’s 14cm, not enough for the MacBook Air. But maybe good enough for my regular sized iPad. 

[drawback]

I used a couple of the back panel screws on a Nord Stage 2 by loosening them just enough to hang a lightweight bent metal shelf on for a music rest. I wonder if you could use something similar as a stabilizer bracket for the back of a MacBook. I'd probably substitute thumb screws for panel screws. On second thought, you might be able to use angle brackets. You wouldn't really need much to keep the computer from falling backward. Perhaps even use a bit of Velcro or 3M mounting strips under the computer keyboard.

[Coker]

If enough of it is attached with Velcro, some could theoretically hang over the back

[AnotherScott]

If you need to be able to see/operate the macbook, maybe it's better to move it elsewhere and use an iPad as a wireless monitor for it. The iPad could more easily/safely be placed on the CP88 (or possibly its optional music stand).

 

This is why, even when I consider these kinds of augmentations to the rig, it's never a laptop. Despite being a Mac guy, if I needed that kind of capability (i.e. beyond what an iPad itself could provide), I'd try a Surface Pro. But if I was committed to Mac over Windows, I'd try the iPad-as-monitor approach. But otherwise, yeah, if you must, velcro might do the trick.

[stoken6]

1 hour ago, drawback said:

I used a couple of the back panel screws on a Nord Stage 2 by loosening them just enough to hang a lightweight bent metal shelf on for a music rest.

Pics please?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[drawback]

11 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Pics please?

 

Cheers, Mike.

Sorry, it was a long time ago and I don't have the Nord anymore – no pics.

[Docbop]

2 hours ago, drawback said:

I used a couple of the back panel screws on a Nord Stage 2 by loosening them just enough to hang a lightweight bent metal shelf on for a music rest. I wonder if you could use something similar as a stabilizer bracket for the back of a MacBook. I'd probably substitute thumb screws for panel screws. On second thought, you might be able to use angle brackets. You wouldn't really need much to keep the computer from falling backward. Perhaps even use a bit of Velcro or 3M mounting strips under the computer keyboard.

I have a StudioLogic SL88Grand they have two accessories available a music stand and laptop/utility shelf that attach to the channel on the back of the keyboard magnetically.   I recently got the music stand to free up floor space that using a music stand took up.   Seems like easy thing to do and wish more keyboard makers would make a magnetically attachable accessories for keyboards.   

[D. Gauss]

there's bunches of these kinda thingies that work on Z stands and table stands (at least on my Plixio Z anyway)

 

https://www.amazon.com/VIVO-Single-Laptop-Notebook-Mount/dp/B00CM9NG1W

 

[HammondDave]

On 4/4/2022 at 1:07 PM, CyberGene said:

I returned the faulty YC73 to Thomann. I can order a new CP88 almost right away or a new YC73 in two months. All others will be available "after a few months". I'll beat the dead horse once again but how about CP88 vs YC73? 🤣 I know, apples vs oranges but still?

 

What I think I will like in CP88 (haven't tested it):

- Action. I'm mainly a classical pianist and a bit of jazz, I own a N1X and I appreciate a piano touch that is as close to real as possible.

- More acoustic piano voices

- I also love Rhodes but have never liked Hammond too much although I got interested in it with the YC recently.

- 88 keys

- I like that all sections are present and there are only the needed effects for pianos that are immediately accessible, no need to switch between A/B section.

 

What I like in the YC73

- More compact. Since I will use it more in band situations, I prefer shorter and lighter instrument

- Possibly lighter feeling action. I liked the BHS but it felt slightly springy and pushing against my fingers. Is it like that on the CP88?

- FM engine: although not a huge fan of cheesy FM-pianos, they sound so good on the YC73. Not sure if the sampled ones on the CP88 can be that good? FM pads are also pretty good.

- Portamento on mono-synths. Lead sounds without portamento sound very lame, not sure they are useful on the CP88. But OTOH I'm not sure how many synth lines I will play on a hammer action. I can also add iPhone apps to the CP88. I have a Hydrasynth too which I programmed for some kick-ass leads and pads.

- FM-organ engine. Well, my initial experiments were rather meh, sounds like toy synth but maybe it's me? Still a synth engine, not just some boring samples. Or maybe it's a prejudice, who knows.

- More effects.

 

BTW, I loved all the live-set preset sounds that come with YC73. And I read how many people are rather cold about non-piano and non-Rhodes sounds in the CP-instruments.

 

What's your take?

 

I just saw some YC73's on Amazon...  Says they have 10....

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-YC73-73-Key-Focused-Keyboard/dp/B08RMDHXH8/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=1JMEQRUMO980Q&keywords=yc73%2Byamaha&qid=1652142057&sprefix=yc%2B73%2Byamaha%2Caps%2C131&sr=8-1-spons&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExOFU0U1pOWDU0WUtPJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMDUxNTA5NDBDNlowT0pPQ1A1JmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA4ODI1OTcyUUJVUUlGSlJDWVFZJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1

 

[CyberGene]

@HammondDave I ordered a CP88 already. I live in Bulgaria and here in Europe the Yammies are scarce at the moment 😢