Yamaha CP88/YC88 vs. the rest

[funkyhammond]

6 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Now, adding a second external keyboard is what would not work but I was wondering how many people use the YC with not one but two external keyboards and why?

 

P.S. Actually I see why. A second waterfall keyboard as a second manual for the organ and a hammer action controller for the piano part. Makes sense. But still, not sure how many people need that but Yamaha are recently listening to their customers, so they may add it.

 

I think the "two external keyboards" was just a misinterpretation of what I had originally posted about a dual manual non-weighted controller. The point is that each manual transmits a different MIDI channel. You can do something similar by just using a single controller split into two zones. For people that play a lot of organ, having two simultaneous drawbar settings is important for many types of organ playing and playing one of the manuals on a weighted keybed doesn't feel right. 

[AnotherScott]

On 3/7/2022 at 3:54 PM, funkyhammond said:

That's not really the issue. The issue is that the YC won't be able to play back a full dual manual performance. It will only be able to play back a split configuration that it is set up for.

 Ah. Yes, I dealt with a way to SEND dual manual to your DAW on two channels, but not to play it back, good point. I guess maybe, when you're ready to commit audio to your DAW, you render upper manual with its drawbar settings, and then go back and render the lower manual with its drawbar settings...?

 

On 3/7/2022 at 6:57 PM, funkyhammond said:

Whereas previous Electro models used separate MIDI channels, the Electro 6 instead has a single receiving MIDI channel and uses a menu setting to define what sections the external board is controlling in the Electro....They could have had the best of both worlds. In the external control menu option, there could have been a setting for MIDI channel that was set to "Global" by default (meaning what it does now) but then could be changed to a specific channel number. 

Actually, the sound assigned to the external keys ("LO") can be set to any channel you want, which I think is what you wished for here. It defaults to 16 (with global defaulting to 1).

 

16 hours ago, Al Coda said:

That´s all totally unimportant w/ the background of a multi-keyboard rig where you typically set ALL your MIDI controller keyboards (w/ int. soundengine) to MIDI "Local OFF" and then have the freedom playing everything from everywhere

While that's one possible way to go, I kind of doubt that it's "typical," e.g. that people with 2-board rigs operate them both in Local Off, using their MIDI functionalities or an external app to route things as desired. But yes, the YC is not well set up for that.

 

14 hours ago, CyberGene said:

@AnotherScott how would you rate the feeling of the BHS keyboard in the YC73 now that you had yours for some time? Is it light enough to be good for organ and synths?

With the updated velocity controls, I now enjoy playing pianos. For organ, it's more usable than average for a hammer action, but that can also be seen as damining with faint praise. But I think I'd be good with playing "second manual" organ on it, if paired with another more suitable to trigger my "main" manual from.

 

12 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

 

I tried the YC73 in a store several days ago...I'm not sure if I liked the action overall, even for pianos. It felt slightly mushy or something at the bottom of the key travel.

Playing with the new velocity parameters really makes a difference. You might not think that could affect your impression of the landing, but in my experience, it does.

[funkyhammond]

12 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Actually, the sound assigned to the external keys ("LO") can be set to any channel you want, which I think is what you wished for here. It defaults to 16 (with global defaulting to 1).

 

I'm still talking about a dual manual controller that transmits 2 MIDI channels. The point is that I don't want to have to play one of the organ manuals on the weighted YC keyboard. Electros were usually semi-weighted waterfall but the later models did have a hammer action option. I considered getting a HA at one point and would have been able to do what I'm talking about here (except maybe not with the Electro 6, which is a head-scratcher). 

 

Anyway, I've registered with IdeaScale now and upvoted the idea to add separate MIDI channels. And the idea has moved in to the "Assessment" stage so hopefully that's a good sign. A couple of people commented that they want even more Rx MIDI channels because they want separate channels for organ upper, organ lower, Key A, and Key B. The idea there is that even though the YC doesn't implement Hammond bass pedal tones, you could use one of the Key A or Key B engines to implement a synth bass as a substitute. So you would need at least 3 MIDI channels coming from an external organ controller.

 

On a quick scan, I didn't see a mention of the lack of high key trigger for organ but I'll look again. For me, it usually won't be an issue since I am using a controller that sends a high trigger, but it would be nice for times when I just want to bring out the YC and play organ on its keyboard. I honestly don't know what they are thinking having the YC61 waterfall version without a high key trigger for organ. That's still the case with version 1.2 of the OS, right?

 

12 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Playing with the new velocity parameters really makes a difference. You might not think that could affect your impression of the landing, but in my experience, it does.

 

Thanks for pointing that out. I had read some earlier post of yours that had mentioned that and I totally forgot about it. What velocity setting do you use? Any different for acoustic piano vs Rhodes? 

 

[funkyhammond]

Correction, the high trigger is there in IdeaScale. Aside from improving the Leslie sim (already implemented), the idea with the highest votes by far is the multiple Rx MIDI channels. Other top ideas are: fixed panning, vibrato for transistor organs, repurposing the drawbars when organ is off, and high trigger for the organ.

[CyberGene]

If the keyboard doesn’t have proper switch placement high in its travel, it won’t be possible to implement higher trigger through a software change and I believe it currently triggers before bottom, meaning it already has high trigger, which isn’t high enough though 😀 Because the keyboard was not designed to have a very high first switch. Probably because it’s a two-switch keyboard and having high first switch would make pianos behave badly (not releasing sound until you release the key to that point and real pianos and most keyboards have their release set at halfway through the key travel). 
 

I really think that they should implement some filter envelope, not just amp envelope. It would allow for creating various analog lead and pad sounds from simple saw and pulse waves. I suggested a VA-synth through the drawbars (similar idea to the repurposing one by anotherscott) which would be much better but if not possible at least they can offer some filter env settings. 

[funkyhammond]

3 hours ago, CyberGene said:

If the keyboard doesn’t have proper switch placement high in its travel, it won’t be possible to implement higher trigger through a software change and I believe it currently triggers before bottom, meaning it already has high trigger, which isn’t high enough though 😀 Because the keyboard was not designed to have a very high first switch. Probably because it’s a two-switch keyboard and having high first switch would make pianos behave badly (not releasing sound until you release the key to that point and real pianos and most keyboards have their release set at halfway through the key travel). 

 

Pianos wouldn't behave badly because pianos would still work as they do now. They get triggered with the bottom sensor. An organ sound would get triggered with the top sensor (with full velocity since it doesn't matter). That's how Nord/Hammond/Crumar/etc. implement their waterfall keyboards. I don't know how high the high sensor is on the Yamaha but it will be at least a bit higher than the bottom sensor. If they are already doing this now for the organ then I guess they have a pretty low high sensor.

 

EDIT: And I mean the waterfall keyboards that also come included with piano sounds.

[funkyhammond]

I see what you mean about the note release but I wasn't suggesting that they move the top sensor higher, but rather just to use it for note-on of the organ.

[CyberGene]

3 hours ago, funkyhammond said:

I see what you mean about the note release but I wasn't suggesting that they move the top sensor higher, but rather just to use it for note-on of the organ.

I think they use it already for high trigger but I have to check it again to be sure, I’m not in front of the YC. I mean the sound starts before bottom. It’s just the trigger isn’t high enough. 

[CyberGene]

Just tested it. The organ is triggered exactly at halfway through the key travel. That is already high trigger, because that’s where the first switch is placed. The second is at the bottom. It’s a standard placement for all non-organ sounds since the key-off event should be generated halfway through the key travel on its way back when released. Long story short, nothing can be done, that’s the highest trigger possible with that keyboard. 

[M_G]

Halfway through the key travel ?

That's about 5mm...... well, IMHO that IS high trigger!

On a real C3 I played the trigger point was about 4-5mm.

It is not as high (2-3mm) as some actual clones show.

The old XK3c has a too high trigger as I remember.

 

Will check out my YC tonight.....

[CyberGene]

Here’s a short video I made to demonstrate the high-trigger that is around halfway through the key travel (or maybe slightly further towards the bottom). And a very short demo of the slow/fast Leslie in the 1.20. 

P.S. recorded on my iPhone through the USB cable for digital audio. There are some occasional pops though although I put the iPhone in flight mode… I have to check why that is. I’m having the same problems when recording my Yamaha N1X. It used to be glitch-free in the past. Maybe an iOS bug. 

 

 

[Stokely]

For you actual Hammond players, how does that trigger compare to a real organ?  Or do those differ depending on model or even the instrument?

Sounds good I must say!

[funkyhammond]

5 hours ago, M_G said:

Halfway through the key travel ?

That's about 5mm...... well, IMHO that IS high trigger!

On a real C3 I played the trigger point was about 4-5mm.

 

 

Going purely by memory, I would say the first of the 9 contacts in my A-100 engaged about 1/3 of the way down and the last contact about 2/3 of the way. I've attached a video of someone demonstrating this (at 13:20) and comparing the B3 with the XK5 clone and its 3-contact system. In a 2-contact digital keyboard that is used for both organ and pianos, some kind of compromise needs to be decided. I'm okay with the YC the way it is, although they could have made the high contact just the slightest bit higher in the YC61 waterfall version since you could argue the feel is focused on organ rather than pianos, so perhaps a totally accurate piano release is not as critical. Not that I will be buying the 61, so it's a moot point for me. 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

On 3/9/2022 at 12:47 PM, funkyhammond said:

On 3/8/2022 at 11:55 PM, AnotherScott said:

Actually, the sound assigned to the external keys ("LO") can be set to any channel you want, which I think is what you wished for here. It defaults to 16 (with global defaulting to 1).

I'm still talking about a dual manual controller that transmits 2 MIDI channels.

 

I was responding to your comment about the Electro 6, where you said you could not put upper and lower (internal and external) manuals on their own channels as you could on earlier Electros. My point was that E6 does still let you do that.

 

As for supporting an external dual manual controller on two MIDI channels (while using a 3rd MIDI channel for the board's internal keys), I agree that the E6 can't do that, but neither did other Electros.

 

On 3/9/2022 at 12:47 PM, funkyhammond said:

What velocity setting do you use? Any different for acoustic piano vs Rhodes? 

 

I did this in under 30 seconds, so it is by no means the results of any kind of exhaustive attempt to find the best settings. But it works for me. Depth 82, Offset 70. I use it for both acoustic and electric pianos.

 

13 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Just tested it. The organ is triggered exactly at halfway through the key travel. That is already high trigger, because that’s where the first switch is placed. The second is at the bottom. It’s a standard placement for all non-organ sounds since the key-off event should be generated halfway through the key travel on its way back when released. Long story short, nothing can be done, that’s the highest trigger possible with that keyboard. 

 

I think you're mistaken about this. When I checked this on a YC61, Piano and Organ sounds triggered at exactly the same point in the key's travel. Since the piano sound reflects volume/timbre change based on velocity, that point MUST be the lower of the two sensors. Also, oddly, the organ RELEASES at the point of the low sensor, e.g. if you layer a piano and an organ, the organ silences at a lower point in the key's travel than the piano does! Please check to see if you can confirm that behavior.

 

[CyberGene]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

When I checked this on a YC61, Piano and Organ sounds triggered at exactly the same point in the key's travel.

Hmm, see the video I posted above, the organ triggers halfway, or let's say around 60% of the key travel. I can't test right now, will test tomorrow morning but do you mean that what we see in that video is in fact the second switch and it's located not at the bottom but above it, i.e. at 60% of the travel? And so if I test with a piano, it will also trigger at that relatively high point (before hitting bottom) and then on release the sound will stop sounding somewhere above that point? This sound odd to me, but I will have to test it. I will also test with a layered organ and piano to see if the two will get released at the same point or the organ is before the piano.

 

P.S. I am not very familiar with synth actions and switch placement in them but in digital pianos with two sensors, the first sensor is halfway through the key travel and the second one is at bottom. The controller logic measures the time between the two switch activations. Since the organ doesn't have velocity sensitivity, it can trigger at the first switch, i.e. halfway which is what Kawai do in their hammer-action MP7SE AFAIK. Intuitively that should be the case with the YC61 too, regardless of whether it has a hammer action or a spring-loaded action. Or maybe you mean the two sensors are located a bit above the bottom? The first one starting close to the key's top position and the second one close to halfway, ready to trigger a strike for a piano sound even though the key has not reached bottom? That doesn't sound right but maybe there are other considerations with spring-loaded actions.

[Coker]

I doubt if Yamaha has a way to use the high switch as a trigger.  The keyboard switch signals most likely go to some sort of hard-coded dedicated chip whose job it is to generate MIDI-like information (key-on, key-off, and velocity) and send it on to the main keyboard microprocessor.

[CyberGene]

2 minutes ago, Coker said:

I doubt if Yamaha has a way to use the high switch as a trigger.  The keyboard switch signals most likely go to some sort of hard-coded dedicated chip whose job it is to generate MIDI-like information (key-on, key-off, and velocity) and send it on to the main keyboard microprocessor.

If that was the case, the organ would trigger at the bottom of the key travel, not halfway. The standard placement of switches is one at the middle, one at bottom. Measure time between the two and generate a note on with velocity based on the duration. If you can hear sound at the first switch, then that already means the logic can send the high trigger. Of course it's not very "high" high trigger but it's better than bottom trigger. This is a fairly common switch placement unless I'm missing something.

[AnotherScott]

7 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

The standard placement of switches is one at the middle, one at bottom. 

 

Both sensor switches are triggered "in the middle" of the key travel (by that I mean neither at the top nor at the bottom), but one is closer to the top and the other is closer to the bottom. 

[funkyhammond]

On 2/12/2022 at 1:14 PM, drawback said:

Long & McQuade has it down from $2699 to $2199 and Tom Lee has the YC61 down from $2199 to $1699 CDN. I can see some aggressive competition here, but all the while Sweetwater is still $1999 USD. That's substantial price drop even before you consider the currency exchange. 

 

I just noticed this post early in this thread. I called and Tom Lee still has the YC61 at that price until the end of the month. That's a crazy deal (equivalent to $1300 US). I really was not looking for the 61 but now I'm trying to figure out if I can make it work for my needs. 🤔🤣 I'm in Toronto and might try calling a couple local stores to see if they will match it, otherwise I would have to have Tom Lee ship it from BC.

 

If it was a semi-weighted 73 that was aggressively discounted, I probably wouldn't hesitate. It would be a great light, all-purpose, single board. But 61 is too cramped for pianos. But the price for such good sounds and actual drawbars. 🤯 

 

My original thinking (at least as of a few days ago) was to hold out for the SK Pro 73 as a single, light, all-in-one board (although, it doesn't seem to be available in Canadian music stores yet). I would then maybe also get a YC73/88 for better pianos and hammer action, and pair it with the SK Pro when needed. When I want dual manual waterfall, I would pair the YC73/88 with my Nord C1 but trigger the YC organ sound. But the SK Pro is double the price of this discounted YC61! My main reason for considering the SK Pro is for the overall better Hammond emulation (including high trigger, the cool new "virtual multi-contact" feature, and deep editing). But the SK Pro plus something like a YC73 is going over the budget I would like. For half the cost, a very solid Hammond and Leslie emulation, probably superior electric and acoustic pianos, I'm thinking I could maybe live without those bells and whistles and get the YC61. It just means I'd almost for sure have to pair it up with a good hammer action controller most of the time because 61 is just too cramped for pianos.

 

If I do decide to go for this sale on the YC61, anyone have suggestions for a relatively light and portable 73/88 controller with decent hammer action that can still be found fairly easily new or used?

 

EDIT: Oh yeah, getting the YC61 also leaves me in limbo about what to do when I want dual manual organ (my Nord C1) together with good pianos on a weighted keyboard. 

[drawback]

@funkyhammondI ordered a YC61 from Tom Lee last week at that price and was assured they're staying with that incredible price until March 31. I was on the fence regarding the 73 model but just can't turn this deal down! Mine is backordered till the third week of March so hopefully it will come with the new firmware update.

 

Regarding a '73 key controller/suitable bottom keyboard – I've still got my eye on the NuMax). I like the idea of modeled Rhodes especially – the tweak points remind me of VTines, I really like Studiologic's user interface in general, it's also marketed as a controller, and the price & weight are spot on. Fingers crossed that the new TP110 action is better (lighter, less flubby) than the TP100. If not, that's a deal breaker. The NuMax may be awhile getting to market.

[funkyhammond]

5 hours ago, drawback said:

I ordered a YC61 from Tom Lee last week at that price and was assured they're staying with that incredible price until March 31.

 

Have you figured out what you're going to use for a case? I think the official Yamaha cases are backordered but I haven't called around. I don't know how well re-enforced the corners of the Yamaha case are but the G-PG-49 Gator case also looks quite nice (just no backstraps).

EDIT: Oops, it looks like it does have backstraps. And about the same price as the official one.

 

[CyberGene]

9 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

Both sensor switches are triggered "in the middle" of the key travel (by that I mean neither at the top nor at the bottom), but one is closer to the top and the other is closer to the bottom. 

 

You are right!

 

So, I need to make a correction, I just made additional tests and it seems that the two switches are indeed placed like this: first one is slightly above middle line, second one slightly below, say at 1/3 and 2/3 of key travel.

 

I wrongly assumed that they were placed as on a digital piano: at middle and bottom. No, they are not. What I thought was the first switch turned out to be the second switch. Furthermore, anotherscott is right that if I layer a piano and organ, they both trigger at the second switch at 2/3 but then when I start releasing the key the organ is released at 2/3 while the piano keeps sounding and is finally released at 1/3.

 

With that in mind, it's theoretically possible to make high-trigger organ at the first switch activation, i.e. 1/3 of key travel, rather than 2/3, however whether Yamaha has designed the instrument to recognize the separate signals or there's a "hardcoded" keyboard controller logic, that is unknown. I think they can distinguish between the two switches since the organ is released at the second switch and the piano at first. If it was hardcoded, both would release at first switch.

[M_G]

 

It should be an easy firmware upgrade for Yamaha to change that or make it as a parameter (normal, shallow).

When the Hammond SK1/2 was released in 2011 it had also only the "normal" trigger point and they added the "shallow" trigger a few months later...... "user pressure" helped a lot to make it possible.

 

They listened regarding the LeslieSim,

maybe they listen regarding the trigger point.

They need some stuff for further updates!

😉

 

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, CyberGene said:

 

You are right!

 

So, I need to make a correction, I just made additional tests and it seems that the two switches are indeed placed like this: first one is slightly above middle line, second one slightly below, say at 1/3 and 2/3 of key travel.

 

I wrongly assumed that they were placed as on a digital piano: at middle and bottom. No, they are not. What I thought was the first switch turned out to be the second switch. Furthermore, anotherscott is right that if I layer a piano and organ, they both trigger at the second switch at 2/3 but then when I start releasing the key the organ is released at 2/3 while the piano keeps sounding and is finally released at 1/3.

 

With that in mind, it's theoretically possible to make high-trigger organ at the first switch activation, i.e. 1/3 of key travel, rather than 2/3, however whether Yamaha has designed the instrument to recognize the separate signals or there's a "hardcoded" keyboard controller logic, that is unknown. I think they can distinguish between the two switches since the organ is released at the second switch and the piano at first. If it was hardcoded, both would release at first switch.

You are now enlightened in the ways of the high trigger. 

 

Cheers, Mike

[CyberGene]

I'm wondering how the triggering on the YC73 is. I've always had this assumption that sensors (actually switches) in digital pianos are placed in the middle and the bottom for two-sensor ones. And to allow for repetition without releasing above the middle point, they added another sensor between the two, at 3/4 the key travel. I'm wondering if I was wrong all that time and the two sensors in digital piano are also located slightly above and below the middle, as on the YC61. And if that's the case, where do they put the third sensor in the digital pianos, below the second one, towards the bottom?

[funkyhammond]

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

Furthermore, anotherscott is right that if I layer a piano and organ, they both trigger at the second switch at 2/3 but then when I start releasing the key the organ is released at 2/3 while the piano keeps sounding and is finally released at 1/3.

 

FYI, on the Nord C1, the organ will trigger high and then either release high or release low depending on whether the key was fully depressed or not. I don't know if all high-trigger organ implementations are done that way or if some of them will always release high. I haven't thought through the reason for the low release but I assume it affects the playability of the organ.

 

2 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I'm wondering how the triggering on the YC73 is. I've always had this assumption that sensors (actually switches) in digital pianos are placed in the middle and the bottom for two-sensor ones. And to allow for repetition without releasing above the middle point, they added another sensor between the two, at 3/4 the key travel. I'm wondering if I was wrong all that time and the two sensors in digital piano are also located slightly above and below the middle, as on the YC61. And if that's the case, where do they put the third sensor in the digital pianos, below the second one, towards the bottom?

 

Maybe it varies. My old 88-key Yamaha S90 has the contacts in the middle and the bottom. Fine for pianos, not good for organ or even rhythmic clav playing. Maybe they started adjusting the contact positions to make the boards more playable across lots of sounds. Dedicated digital pianos may still be middle and bottom if that makes more sense for piano. I'm just guessing.

[CyberGene]

1 minute ago, funkyhammond said:

Dedicated digital pianos may still be middle and bottom if that makes more sense for piano. I'm just guessing.

 

Yes, I think I can confirm that. I discovered a document that analyzed the Kawai VPC1 and it confirms that the sensors/contacts are placed at middle and bottom (and a third one in between), there's logic analyzer used. Since I also posted about that on another forum, won't repeat it, here's the link:

https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/380-sensor-switch-placement-in-digital-pianos

[pinkfloydcramer]

Pardon me for interjecting into the trigger discussion..

 

For me, the YC88 does a better job (compared to any hammer action I have played to date) of prepping to play any acoustic grand- from my freebie upright (my "fun" piano) to a private club's Kawai GL30 (great piano but the heaviest action I have encountered on a new grand). My CP300 wasn't bad for that, at least RE maintaining finger strength, but it was more of an adjustment to go from it to a grand. 

 

The Kawai MP11se I play every other week is similar quality (with the wooden keys and pivot points) but it is little lighter action. Most would probably prefer it for that reason, assuming they wouldn't have to move it).  I don't play 230 BPM bebop but I'm not the much maligned "pounder" either, and for me, the YC88 is smooth and fluid to play for fast passages. After a few weeks on it the CP73 seemed pretty light in comparison. 

 

So I'm enjoying the feel and finger-sound connection and the way it pairs so well with the  CFX sample.  Anything that gets me  to spend more time playing instead of yakking on the 'net is a good thing, IMO. So I'm very happy with my investment. 

[AnotherScott]

 

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I'm wondering how the triggering on the YC73 is.

 

The YC73 triggers low and releases high (for both the organ and piano sounds).

 

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

I've always had this assumption that sensors (actually switches) in digital pianos are placed in the middle and the bottom for two-sensor ones. And to allow for repetition without releasing above the middle point, they added another sensor between the two, at 3/4 the key travel. I'm wondering if I was wrong all that time and the two sensors in digital piano are also located slightly above and below the middle, as on the YC61. 

 

On non-hammer boards, the sensors are triggered by the keys. On hammer action boards, it is also typical that the sensors are triggered by the keys, but there are also models where the sensors are triggered by the hammers. Key-based sensor triggering works the same on hammer and non-hammer models. So for the hammer action models where the sensors are triggered by the keys, it's the same as on un/semi-weighted actions... top sensor toward (but not AT) the top of the key travel, bottom sensor toward (but not AT) the bottom of the key travel, so yes, like the YC61.  But on models where the sensors are triggered by the hammer rather than the key, I think it can be a little more ambiguous, because the hammer is physically not part of the key, so the correlation of where in a key's travel a given sensor is triggered may not be absolute (since the triggering is based on the hammer's position, not the key's position). I don't have personal experience with this, though. 

 

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

And if that's the case, where do they put the third sensor in the digital pianos, below the second one, towards the bottom?

 

If there is a third sensor, the function of that sensor is specifically for a behavior that needs to occur between the highest sensor and the lowest, so operationally/logically, the placement of the additional sensor is between the top (that is, highest) sensor and the bottom (lowest) one (regardless of key triggering vs. hammer triggering).

 

4 hours ago, CyberGene said:

 

I discovered a document that analyzed the Kawai VPC1 and it confirms that the sensors/contacts are placed at middle and bottom (and a third one in between), there's logic analyzer used. Since I also posted about that on another forum, won't repeat it, here's the link:

https://pianoclack.com/forum/d/380-sensor-switch-placement-in-digital-pianos

 

I do not see anything in that link to indicate a sensor is at the actual bottom of the key travel. If I understand it correctly, the total key travel is 11.4 mm, while the lowest sensor triggers, not at 11.4 mm, but rather at 10 mm.

 

 

 

 

[CyberGene]

3 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I do not see anything in that link to indicate a sensor is at the actual bottom of the key travel. If I understand it correctly, the total key travel is 11.4 mm, while the lowest sensor triggers, not at 11.4 mm, but rather at 10 mm.

It's a theory of mine but I think that's because the Kawai actions are particularly known to be very mushy because of thick dampening material in order to minimize the shock and so I believe the additional 1.4mm of key travel (on top of the standard 10mm of key travel on acoustic grands) is where the key burrows within the cushion. And of course the switch cannot be at dead-bottom since the logic needs to have some time for the hammer (or key notch) to have that contact pressed, otherwise it would be too short duration until the hammer rebounds and deactivates that contact. But that particular consideration aside, we can say the sensors are at the middle and at the bottom (± some small distance).