Yamaha CP88/YC88 vs. the rest

[ElmerJFudd]

11 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

When I originally bought the YC61, I had wished there were a waterfall 73, that's what I would have gotten. The funny thing is, after I returned it (mostly because of the rotary), I ordered the newly announced SK Pro 73. It was taking so long (and I'd prepaid it) that the dealer finally said, here, take a 61, and when the 73 comes in, we'll swap. Well, in the end, I decided that, for the way I'd mostly use it, I could deal with 61, and I really did like the idea of it being smaller and about 4 lbs lighter than the 73 which tops 24 lbs. So ultimately, I did keep the 61, and for the times I might have used the board if only it had had 73 (like a LH bass situation), I figured I'll use something else. Which made even more sense since its interface complications ended up making me think I probably wouldn't choose it for LH bass anyway, compared to other boards I had which could do it more smoothly/simply.

 

Fast forward to today, and it turns out that instead of wishing I could get a YC73 waterfall, I'm actually glad that the 73 is BHS instead. It makes for a better companion to my PC4-7. While originally a 73-key waterfall was the YC I wanted, today, if the 73 were a waterfall, I would have been less likely to buy it. My usage now is different than it would have been two years ago, where it probably would have gone over a PC4 rather than under a PC4-7.

 

There really are needs for both semi-weighted and hammer action 7x boards. It's a shame that it is so rare that a company offers a given size with both kinds of actions. Nord does (with the 7x-key Electro and Stage models). Kronos had two versions of an 88. But it almost never happens. It would have been really nice to see the YC in waterfall AND hammer versions of a 73.

 

Tangentially, changes in needs are also why I was interested in a CP73 last year, but preferred the YC73 this year. Subsequent to returning the CP73, I picked up a Dexibell P3 and an older Privia that I liked, making the CP73 that much less useful to me, even if, as I'd hoped, the new velocity settings addressed my main problem with it. But the YC gives me most of what I liked about the CP73, plus its own advantages, and most significantly, now also gives me a clearly better organ than what's in the PC4-7 (something I wouldn't have said about the YC with its previous Leslie). And if I want to get fancy, the LEDs in the drawbars make it a more tempting controller for VB3m/BX3 on an iPad, too. (Either way, MIDI will allow me to use the Kurzweil's non-hammer keys with the organ, and in fact, the Kurzweil will let me trigger the YC's organ from a high trigger point, which the YC61 itself can't do. Though also, if needed, the BHS keys aren't bad for organ, as hammer actions go.) The CP layout is more conducive to on-the-fly editing of splits-and-layers and is generally more immediately "hands-on" in a number of respects, and there are times I'd prefer it, but on balance, based on my current usage, I'm getting more with the YC than I'm giving up (plus I have some ideas about how to address a couple of the things the CP does better). Though yes, I'm still ending up with three hammer action boards I really like, an embarrassment of riches. (Not counting assorted others which I think at this point I really need to get around to selling!)

 

Anyway, with this combo, I am sacrificing my usual preference for having the two sets of keys as close as possible (yay Privia), but I gotta admit, I think this looks pretty rad.

 

 

The light-weight weighted action is a better bring-one-board option as well, imho.  This pairing is killer for when you bring two.  

[ludo]

Whenever a Nordstage 4 Compact comes out, i 'll buy it (no, i'm not a rich person, i'm retired now and i'll safe for it). At this moment i have the money to buy a YC88 or 73 or 61.

Now the question: Which one ?

Any advice from you guys is much appreciated !

[ElmerJFudd]

28 minutes ago, ludo said:

Whenever a Nordstage 4 Compact comes out, i 'll buy it (no, i'm not a rich person, i'm retired now and i'll safe for it). At this moment i have the money to buy a YC88 or 73 or 61.

Now the question: Which one ?

Any advice from you guys is much appreciated !

This will mainly depend on the number of keys and action you prefer.  The 88 is weighted and most piano-like.  The 73 is weighted but designed to be lighter to carry.  The 61 is a semi weight synth action with waterfall keys best suited if you prefer it to be more similar to an organ.  The 61 is also the lightest to carry of the three.

[eric]

I think I'm pretty sold on getting a YC61 after these most recent improvements - maybe this will prompt me to finally sell my NE2 61 that I've had for 20 years or so. I don't know that the YC can take the place of my NS3, though it has great features and I'd welcome a 61 note board for rehearsals and smaller gigs.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, ElmerJFudd said:

The light-weight weighted action is a better bring-one-board option as well, imho. 

 

It's an interesting question. I so rarely use a single board, it's kind of academic, but if I was going to gig with just one board, I'm not sure whether I'd prefer the YC73 or PC4-7. Because--almost to my own surprise--I'm actually largely okay with playing piano on the PC4-7 AND largely okay with playing organ on the YC73! So the action wouldn't be as much of the deciding factor as it might otherwise be. The Kurz is far more flexible, and it weighs much less (10 lbs less at just shy of 20 instead of just shy of 30), so I'd probably go that way. But I admit (and some of this may be merely Shiny New Toy syndrome), there is something that's just kind of extra fun about interacting with the YC's controls, I might enjoy it more.

 

Speaking about the weight difference though, one thing that is annoying about the YC73 is that, while light for what it is, it's still not a featherweight, and there's just no great way to pick it up. If you want to pick it up the short way, well, the bottom section under the keys is curved (shades of Korg SV1), making it hard to get a grip, while the rear section is so high that my hand can't get a good solid grip around that side either, and no kind of easier grip facility is provided. If you want to instead try picking it up from its sides (the ability to do so being one of the advantages of a 73 over an 88), now you're dealing with a problem similar to that of the original Kronos... the side panels bulge outward, and the sides' tops themselves are angled, so there's no place to get an easy, stress-free grip from that angle either, where you can solidly get your hands around it. Not as bad as that Kronos was, but similar idea. There are other boards that have designs that are much more grippable. I don't understand how companies can make stage-oriented gear and not consider these things.

 

20 minutes ago, ludo said:

i have the money to buy a YC88 or 73 or 61.

Now the question: Which one ?

 

Of course, it depends. That's why they make all three. ;-) Do you work with splits a lot, or do you more often play one sound over the entire set of keys? Do you use a lot of organ-specific technique in your organ playing (smears, slaps, squabbling, machine-gun repetitions, etc.)? Does your piano use call for a lot of subtle control over dynamics? How much of a factor is travel weight? Would it be the only board you'd be using, or would you be pairing it with something, and if so, what?

[ludo]

Thanks AnotherScott (by the way i'm lvercaut from the older forum format),

i only play at home and i own many VST's (Keyscape, Trillian, Ravenscroft,...you name them...) but i like to have a 'live' rig without going live (i'm 62, ok no excuse :-))

I like 'the one man band' approach without going 'Arranger keyboards' but playing left hand bass + piano+ e.piano + clavinet +organ myself.

So i'm also looking at the new Vox Continental 73 Black as a lower keyboard (not for the old CX3 organ but for the Rhodes,E.piano's  and Synth sounds)

Please help many thanks in advance !

[AnotherScott]

6 hours ago, ludo said:

i'm also looking at the new Vox Continental 73 Black as a lower keyboard (not for the old CX3 organ but for the Rhodes,E.piano's  and Synth sounds)

Please help many thanks in advance !

 

One of the biggest advantages of the Vox is that it is probably the lightest thing you can find that will be really strong for those EPs (in both sound and action). So my thought is, with light weight apparently being an appealing factor in what you're doing, then the YC61 complements the Vox to give you a very portable rig, including a "2 manual" organ, with the Vox doing double duty as a lower organ manual for the YC. You may have seen the photo below in the VC thread, Vox under a Nord Stage 3, which worked well because, for my usage, I was able to actually allow the Nord to cover most of the Vox to keep the "two manuals" close together (the patch recall buttons of the Vox are still accessible), and by hitting the Dual KB button on the Nord and invoking a "silent" patch on the Vox, I could put it into that dual manual organ mode at will, as needed. Or use the Vox to play a Nord piano, whatever. This same concept should work well with the YC61 too.

 

So my feeling is that the YC61 may be the best way for you to go, unless you want a hammer action and are willing to up the weight to get it (because as good as the Vox is for piano playability as non-hammer boards go, it's still not as good as a hammer action, even the one in the "lowly" YC73, once you adjust its velocity settings). The need for more than 61 keys on the Yamaha for piano work or splits would be, I think, largely ameliorated by the ability to drive those Yamaha sounds from the 73 keys of the Vox when called for.

 

A Vox 73 + YC61 would not be the most flexible 2-board rig I could imagine, but it might well be the lightest 2-board rig that I could happily get through most gigs on, the Vox being the lightest really acceptable (to me) piano board, and the YC61 being the lightest really acceptable (to me) multi-function/organ board, and both being ergonomically "fun." Plus if you need something these boards don't give you, the YC61 makes it about as painless as possible to add sound from an iPad device or whatever, with its single-cable connection that handles all the MIDI as well as all the audio, and it has 4-zone MIDI controller functions in it. The only gotcha there is no easy way to control the iPad sounds' volumes without going to the iPad. But there's a workaround discussed at the top of the post at https://forums.musicplayer.com/topic/171775-yamaha-cp88-and-73-deserve-their-own-thread/page/21/#comment-2850958 - and it looks like you could also make use of a foot controller for this.

 

The NumaCompact 2/2X is a lighter piano board, and the Roland VR-09B is a lighter multi-function/organ board, so that's an even lighter pairing to address most of the same needs, and those are both nice boards and great values, so a case could be made for that being the lightest acceptable 2-board rig for these purposes. But to me, going up to the Vox/YC combo will generate a lot more smiles at a still very low total rig weight. Personally, I think that's the lightest rig I could assemble that I could find really satisfying in its combination of sounds, actions, and features/functionalities.

 

One place the combo does fall down for me a bit, though, would be LH bass. Is that an issue for you?

[ludo]

4 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

 

 

 

 

One place the combo does fall down for me a bit, though, would be LH bass. Is that an issue for you?

I think so. Is it not possible to play LH bass on the Vox lower octaves ? Are the splitpoints fixed or variable ?

Can i drive the YC61 with the Vox right part while playing Vox LH bass ?

[Aynsley Green]

Hey y'all,

 

Finally had a minute to sit down with my new v1.2 Yamaha YC88 & Roland JX-08 pairing (as an alternative to the Nord Stage 3), and I think it may just be the bollocks.

I have a Nord Stage 2 88 at work that I use all the time, and I can safely say it wins on sounds, action, and general enjoyable-ness. Time to hit up the Procurements people for next financial year, methinks. 😁

 

Some things worth mentioning:

• With the new v1.2 Leslie Sim and the baby-FM synth, the YC feels pretty 'gig-complete' - great pianos, great electric pianos, meaty organs, good sampled instruments, decent synths, excellent FX - all tied together by the reassuringly heavy wooden action, and probably some high-quality converters/output stage, the output is super clean when cranked up loud.
• The Synth/FM section is more capable than it first appears (if you fiddle with the EQ, Tone controls, envelopes, filters, layering and FX) - one could probably get away with leaving the JX-08 at home on your average gig. The synths being FM-based is unusual, but they do have a nice consistent tone across the range of the instrument - something that cannot be said for a lot of Virtual Analog synths.
• Surprisingly good presets and fast editing - I didn't have to do much at all to get my 'go-to' sounds all set up.
• The only thing it doesn't have is a Harp sample, which I require sometimes - but, managed to coax something decent out of the Synth engine, layered with the Koto sample for the attack. Hopefully Yamaha continues adding more samples, they're pretty polished.
• The Clav sounds great, but, the YC does not have all the Clav pickup/EQ variations, or a Muted sample. But again, you can get a lot of the way there using the Tone controls.
• MIDI zoning, splits, layers etc were very easy to set up with external gear - so I simply take the paperback-sized JX-08 module out of the gig bag pocket, sit it on the YC's built-in music stand, plug it into the YC's Inputs, and boom, you've got yourself a full-fat 'Synth Section' in the YC + 2 extra layers of multitimbrality!
• Have yet to take it out to a gig, but the build quality and the gig bag are as good as if not better than the Nords. The pockets in the gig bag are well-thought out. The Music Stand is plasticky and not as big as the Nord one, but that does make it more portable - I always felt the heavy metal 4-pager Nord music stand was a bit overkill in the iPad Age.
• XLR outputs!
• USB interface that gives you a 1:1 digital output for recording!
• I normally never use presets for Hammond because I like to 'see' what's going on, but the Drawbar LEDs totally work.
• The FX are great, but it lacks Pitch FX - doesn't have the Nord 'Vibe' effect (very popular in Neo-Soul, these days), or anything that would allow you to do 'Fine Tuning', say if you wanted a Honky Tonk sound by layering two pianos and detuning one of them. You can use a Chorus for this effect, of course, but it's not quite the same.
• No Multi-outs, dang.
• Patch management is pretty old school, doesn't have the NS3's Swap patches or Set Lists. Plenty of User patch storage, though.

 

Good to see someone's finally putting some fire under Nord's feet!

 

 

[stoken6]

10 minutes ago, Aynsley Green said:

it may just be the bollocks

This is your friendly translation service. The quoted phrase means "it's good". 

 

"Dog's bollocks" would be "very good".

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Aynsley Green]

4 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

This is your friendly translation service. The quoted phrase means "it's good". 

 

"Dog's bollocks" would be "very good".

 

Cheers, Mike.

 

I would equate it closely to the American expression 'the shit', with the article 'the' being the differentiator between 'shit' and 'the opposite of shit'

[Outkaster]

Good to hear

[AnotherScott]

9 hours ago, ludo said:

Is it not possible to play LH bass on the Vox lower octaves ? Are the splitpoints fixed or variable ?

 

Yes, you can split the Vox for LH bass, with a variable split point. But you can't send the bass out of its own output (no such routing or panning option). That doesn't matter to everyone, but when I do LHB, I really want it to have its own output. On stage, I can send it to its own bass amp (I have a little Markbass), it sounds better and more authentic that way. (Maybe especially so since my keyboard amp and our PA all have only 8" woofers.) If there's a soundperson, it gives them separate control over the "bass guitar" so they can raise/lower/EQ it without affecting the rest of the keyboard sounds, they can mix it just as they would if there were an actual bass player. (Though in my case, that's only a theoretical benefit, since any time we're playing a gig where there's a sound person, there's probably going to be a real bassist too.)

 

Also, again largely a personal preference, I tend to prefer playing LH bass on my Upper board, because I'm more comfortable taking ~2 octaves away from my organ/synth/strings/brass/etc than I am taking 2 octaves away from my piano. So the alternate solution here would be to use the YC61 instead of the Vox for LH bass, but it, likewise, lacks the ability to send the bass out of its own output, plus things get more cramped taking the octaves away from a 61 (which is a big reason why I prefer a 73-key top board).

 

So that's why I don't find the combo ideal for LHB. Which isn't to say it's not workable. Especially if it's something you just need to do now and then.

 

7 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

Finally had a minute to sit down with my new v1.2 Yamaha YC88 & Roland JX-08 pairing (as an alternative to the Nord Stage 3), and I think it may just be the bollocks.

I have a Nord Stage 2 88 at work that I use all the time, and I can safely say it wins on sounds, action, and general enjoyable-ness.

 

Yeah, I can see that. The Nord has the knobby VA synth advantage over the YC, but you've addressed that with the JX-08. I would agree that the YC generally meets or exceeds NS2 on organ, piano/EP, and sampled acoustic instruments, and action. Nord still has some advantages of course, including aftertouch, assignable outs, and custom sample loading.

 

7 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

The synths being FM-based is unusual, but they do have a nice consistent tone across the range of the instrument - something that cannot be said for a lot of Virtual Analog synths.

 

and certainly sample-based ones!

 

7 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

MIDI zoning, splits, layers etc were very easy to set up with external gear - so I simply take the paperback-sized JX-08 module out of the gig bag pocket, sit it on the YC's built-in music stand, plug it into the YC's Inputs, and boom, you've got yourself a full-fat 'Synth Section' in the YC + 2 extra layers of multitimbrality!

 

For those not using the music stand, it looks like the module might fit okay on the right side of the front panel, with minimal overlap. It might have been nice if they had consolidated more of the free panel space to the right side (i.e. move the main control surface a bit to the left), to increase the amount of contiguous free space available for an add-on.

 

 

7 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

The FX are great, but it lacks...anything that would allow you to do 'Fine Tuning', say if you wanted a Honky Tonk sound by layering two pianos and detuning one of them. You can use a Chorus for this effect, of course, but it's not quite the same.

 

Good point. A separate honky-tonk piano sample might be a nice thing for them to add to a future update. (Along with those other clav pickup positions you mentioned.)

[Aynsley Green]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

For those not using the music stand, it looks like the module might fit okay on the right side of the front panel, with minimal overlap. It might have been nice if they had consolidated more of the free panel space to the right side (i.e. move the main control surface a bit to the left), to increase the amount of contiguous free space available for an add-on.

 

The module does indeed fit neatly in the negative space on the right hand side.

[Aynsley Green]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

Yeah, I can see that. The Nord has the knobby VA synth advantage over the YC, but you've addressed that with the JX-08. I would agree that the YC generally meets or exceeds NS2 on organ, piano/EP, and sampled acoustic instruments, and action. Nord still has some advantages of course, including aftertouch, assignable outs, and custom sample loading.

 

Whether the YC88 exceeds the NS3 88 is another question. I think it still beats the NS3 on electric pianos and organ (seriously, the new Leslie is very good), so the big differentiator is the Synth Section, multi-outs, and the price. The NS3 88 is $6000 in Australia, whilst I got the YC88 for nearly half that. Add the $600 JX-08 module, and you're still ahead considerably.

[dbhoosier]

1 hour ago, Aynsley Green said:

Whether the YC88 exceeds the NS3 88 is another question. I think it still beats the NS3 on electric pianos and organ (seriously, the new Leslie is very good), so the big differentiator is the Synth Section, multi-outs, and the price. The NS3 88 is $6000 in Australia, whilst I got the YC88 for nearly half that. Add the $600 JX-08 module, and you're still ahead considerably.

I would factor into the price comparison the YC's balanced XLR outs.  It's roughly $200 for a stereo Radial DI box plus patch cables before you are apples to apples with the YC.  Of course, the YC doesn't have the multi-outs, but I don't have an active need for that (particularly with the latest software update) whereas getting a DI box with a Nord is pretty much required.  

[ludo]

@Anotherscott: Man, your knowledge about all this is out of this world ! Thank you so much !

 

[AnotherScott]

8 minutes ago, dbhoosier said:

I would factor into the price comparison the YC's balanced XLR outs.  It's roughly $200 for a stereo Radial DI box plus patch cables before you are apples to apples with the YC.  Of course, the YC doesn't have the multi-outs, but I don't have an active need for that (particularly with the latest software update) whereas getting a DI box with a Nord is pretty much required.  

 Just goes to show how we can all weigh things differently. I'd much rather have multi-outs than XLRs. Because...

 

1... at least I *can* add balanced XLRs externally, even if it costs some, whereas there's no way to add the multi-outs, and

 

2... I'd potentially use multi-outs much more often, like on any left hand bass gig, whereas I very rarely need a DI box. I almost always go into my own small mixer (as many people do, if they have multiple boards and/or their stage amp is a powered PA cabinet which benefits from the extra input gain), and that mixer also provides a balanced XLR Out if needed, and...

 

3... on the occasional gig where I need a DI box, this century, that's always been a situation where there's been a house PA, and they always have DI boxes already.

 

In fact, I'm not sure I've ever owned a DI box!

[AnotherScott]

15 hours ago, Aynsley Green said:

 

• The FX are great, but it lacks Pitch FX - doesn't have the Nord 'Vibe' effect (very popular in Neo-Soul, these days), or anything that would allow you to do 'Fine Tuning', say if you wanted a Honky Tonk sound by layering two pianos and detuning one of them. You can use a Chorus for this effect, of course, but it's not quite the same.

 

 

I just added a request for pitch detuning as an effect to Ideascale... you can vote it up at https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/285616

[dbhoosier]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 Just goes to show how we can all weigh things differently. I'd much rather have multi-outs than XLRs. Because...

 

1... at least I *can* add balanced XLRs externally, even if it costs some, whereas there's no way to add the multi-outs, and

 

2... I'd potentially use multi-outs much more often, like on any left hand bass gig, whereas I very rarely need a DI box. I almost always go into my own small mixer (as many people do, if they have multiple boards and/or their stage amp is a powered PA cabinet which benefits from the extra input gain), and that mixer also provides a balanced XLR Out if needed, and...

 

3... on the occasional gig where I need a DI box, this century, that's always been a situation where there's been a house PA, and they always have DI boxes already.

 

In fact, I'm not sure I've ever owned a DI box!

To each his own.  I play with a bass player and haven't needed the multi-out (nor used a Vent).  I want each board to be a direct line to the mixer (versus a separate keyboard mixer) as I want both FOH control for each (I regularly play two boards simultaneously) and I record my live performances and want to be able to edit the track(s) for each board separately (versus a single feed of multiple keyboards) off the main mixer.  Maybe there is some other solution for that with a separate mixer that I haven't figured out.  

[AnotherScott]

5 minutes ago, dbhoosier said:

Maybe there is some other solution for that with a separate mixer that I haven't figured out.  

 

If you're playing mono, you can use a mixer and pan one of your two keyboards left and the other right, but you probably want stereo. Again, it just gets to people having different needs. Post covid, I've been playing more LH bass than ever, because the events I've been hired for have been smaller, and they want a smaller band. So I did lots of 3-piece and 4-stuff last year. And there was nothing last year where there was a "FOH" -- they were all situations where the keys just came out of my own amp.

[Aynsley Green]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

 

If you're playing mono, you can use a mixer and pan one of your two keyboards left and the other right, but you probably want stereo. Again, it just gets to people having different needs. Post covid, I've been playing more LH bass than ever, because the events I've been hired for have been smaller, and they want a smaller band. So I did lots of 3-piece and 4-stuff last year. And there was nothing last year where there was a "FOH" -- they were all situations where the keys just came out of my own amp.

 

A synth module such as the JX-08 would give you that multi-out ability you would need for a Left Hand Bass gig, also the miniature keyboard add-on has its uses in that scenario, too. I am doing exactly that on a fly-in backlined gig I have this week.

[AnotherScott]

9 minutes ago, Aynsley Green said:

 

A synth module such as the JX-08 would give you that multi-out ability you would need for a Left Hand Bass gig, also the miniature keyboard add-on has its uses in that scenario, too. I am doing exactly that on a fly-in backlined gig I have this week.

 

True. Still not great in this particular combo (Vox + YC61), because the board with the ability to zone in an external sound is the YC61, and I'd rather have more than 61 keys on a board I'm splitting for LH bass, but yes, it's helpful. 

 

I'm not sure about using the JX-08 keys for that, though. I'm okay with mini-keys in general, but I have a feeling I'd be sloppy trying to play LH bass on them while playing full size keys with my other hand.

[Aynsley Green]

2 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

True. Still not great in this particular combo (Vox + YC61), because the board with the ability to zone in an external sound is the YC61, and I'd rather have more than 61 keys on a board I'm splitting for LH bass, but yes, it's helpful. 

 

I'm not sure about using the JX-08 keys for that, though. I'm okay with mini-keys in general, but I have a feeling I'd be sloppy trying to play LH bass on them while playing full size keys with my other hand.

 

It does take a bit of practice, yes. The action on the keyboard addon is not bad, unlike most mini keyboards.
It fits in a carry-on easily - quite the problem solver. It also does splits & layers within itself, which may help depending on your setup.

[AnotherScott]

I just barely missed the editing window! I was able to invoke the editor and make my changes, but by the time I finished, it wouldn't let me post them.

 

So anyway, I realized I'd conflated two conversations... lupo's possible pairing of a YC61 with a Vox Continental, and dbhoosier's comment in a sub-thread comparing YC to Nord Stage 3. So getting back to that latter topic...

 

Yes, with the YC's MIDI zoning functions, adding any external sound source (e.g. synth module or iPad) would give you the ability to trigger some other sound with its own dedicated output. So in a sense I was wrong when I said it's possible to add balanced XLRs externally to a board that lacks them, but there's no way to add the multi-outs to a board that didn't have them (i.e. for something like LHB). While of course you can't add the multi-outs to the board (to route the board's own sounds), adding an external sound source is certainly a possible workaround that can largely be used to accomplish the same goal. And with the YC's built-in interface, if you were to get your extra sound from something like an iPad, the additional wiring/setup would be minimal.

 

Getting back to Aynsley's solution of adding a JX-08, I'm going to try putting my basically unused JP-08 on the YC73, to get some knobby synth into the system, indeed adding one of the main things a Nord Stage has over the YC. Since I only have the 73, the module will hang over a good amount, but I think I can attach it sufficiently strongly. Of course, it's not a full NS3 functional knobby synth replacement... it's only got 4-note polyphony and you can't apply the synth functions to samples, for example. But still...

[kaptainkeys]

1 hour ago, AnotherScott said:

I just barely missed the editing window! I was able to invoke the editor and make my changes, but by the time I finished, it wouldn't let me post them.

 

So anyway, I realized I'd conflated two conversations... lupo's possible pairing of a YC61 with a Vox Continental, and dbhoosier's comment in a sub-thread comparing YC to Nord Stage 3. So getting back to that latter topic...

 

Yes, with the YC's MIDI zoning functions, adding any external sound source (e.g. synth module or iPad) would give you the ability to trigger some other sound with its own dedicated output. So in a sense I was wrong when I said it's possible to add balanced XLRs externally to a board that lacks them, but there's no way to add the multi-outs to a board that didn't have them (i.e. for something like LHB). While of course you can't add the multi-outs to the board (to route the board's own sounds), adding an external sound source is certainly a possible workaround that can largely be used to accomplish the same goal. And with the YC's built-in interface, if you were to get your extra sound from something like an iPad, the additional wiring/setup would be minimal.

 

Getting back to Aynsley's solution of adding a JX-08, I'm going to try putting my basically unused JP-08 on the YC73, to get some knobby synth into the system, indeed adding one of the main things a Nord Stage has over the YC. Since I only have the 73, the module will hang over a good amount, but I think I can attach it sufficiently strongly. Of course, it's not a full NS3 functional knobby synth replacement... it's only got 4-note polyphony and you can't apply the synth functions to samples, for example. But still...

Since you are using the YC with the PC4, you could also just use 4 of it's multitimbral parts and get any combo of FM, VA, or VAST sounds.

[AnotherScott]

13 minutes ago, GotKeys said:

Since you are using the YC with the PC4, you could also just use 4 of it's multitimbral parts and get any combo of FM, VA, or VAST sounds.

 

The PC4/PC4-7 is a great board, and it's got "all of the above"... it's got assignable outs AND it has balanced outs (albeit TRS). Even without a YC, just by itself, it can provide any combo of FM, VA, drawbar organ, or sample-based sounds.

 

What the YC is adding for me is a hammer action, a superior drawbar organ, some excellent additional sounds (including some really nice piano and EP options), and a fun, immediate, hands-on dedicated front panel interface. I'll be using MIDI so I can play the YC's organ from the Kurzweil's non-hammer shallow-trigger keys.

[Stokely]

The YC organ update has me really seriously considering it.  I'd be selling my MODX, since I've also picked up a used Forte as a jack-of-all-trades keyboard.  I miss having an organ-centric keyboard that is made for that task.

I had sights set on a Mojo, but there's no doubt that the YC is more flexible and has a couple other advantages.  I'm currently using B-3X on an ipad with my MODX--and having that ability to use ipad sounds is good to have available if needed--but I'd prefer to not *have* to have an ipad for something I use as often as organ.   I dislike the awkward cabling and extra fuss and prefer hardcoded controls over mapped ones for drawbars and other features.  And...no wall wart on any of the ones I'm considering.  Plus the more sound sources involved mean more struggles with patch volume leveling, something that has been biting me.

One thing to evaluate between possible contenders Mojo, YC and even the Electro is:  will it easy to midi into the Kurzweil to play synth sounds for certain songs?  I used to do this with my PC3, supplying piano to a weighted controller while the PC3 itself played organ.   I realize the Mojo and electro controls aren't ideal for synth!  But the Mojo does have a cool setting where it can use an alternative midi channel if you turn local off, which is perfect if you have something there waiting on that channel.  Local off is also not buried in a menu (no menus!)     Also important, I tune down one half-step so I'd have to make sure that any transposition on the keyboard also applies to the midi being sent out and not just pitching the internal sounds (I've found this always to be true so far with keyboards I've owned.)

I'd even strongly consider returning the Forte  7 (it's in the 45-day return window) in favor of the 7-octave YC but I don't know if I'd get on with the action as much as I like the Forte's.  I'd lose a LOT of synth power too, even though I'm struggling with programming VAST it must be said.

Analysis paralysis, it's a thing!



 

[counterpoint]

18 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

 

I just added a request for pitch detuning as an effect to Ideascale... you can vote it up at https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/c/idea/285616

A less-than-perfect work-around...  Select piano voices for both Keys A & B.  For either Keys A or B, go to the P Mod setting, put the Depth at about 64, the speed at -64 and the Initial at about 5.  It rolls the modulation back and forth very slowly to keep the two voices slightly out of tune.  You can push the Initial amount up to 8 or so for a deeper effect but you'll start to hear the rolling back and forth of the modulation more as well.  Sounded best to me with the U1.  Too bad -64 doesn't freeze the modulation totally as that would be the same as a fixed fine tune.  You would think that's an easy OS change but I thought the same for the fix panning as well.

 

Add:  Just played around with this more.  Try this too:  with just one voice, set the Depth at about 5, the Speed again at -64 and the Initial at around 100.  Strangely, each note you play seems to start at a different point in the modulation cycle therefore is slightly out of tune with the other notes giving you the same effect.  Maybe somebody with tech/architecture can explain how/why it works that way.  You would think the pitch for the entire keyboard would be at the same point of the cycle at the same time but it's not. 

[AnotherScott]

47 minutes ago, Stokely said:

The YC organ update has me really seriously considering it.  I'd be selling my MODX...I'd even strongly consider returning the Forte  7

 

It's making me actually consider selling my SK Pro, which has not seen a single gig. The SK is certainly more flexible as an organ, tweakable to the Nth degree, and it has the multi-contact simulation, and its split/layer flexibility and deep editing is far beyond what you can do on the YC, and its got the mono synth right there, and its got the assignable outs... But basic navigation and patch management is a bear, and the YC does enough to do what I'm asking of it, and in a surprising twist, I like that it's got the hammer action which makes it a better companion for the PC4-7. With the SK Pro, either the PC4-7 turns into a bottom board (meaning I'd have even higher demands of the SK Pro) or I have to take a third board for a hammer action), neither of which is as good of an option in my current situation. But I really do like the SK Pro, and might want to hang onto it for those occasional gigs with another band where I have actually brought anywhere from 3 to 6 boards. I still need to find some more time to work with the Hammond and get more comfortable with it.

 

  

47 minutes ago, Stokely said:

One thing to evaluate between possible contenders Mojo, YC and even the Electro is:  will it easy to midi into the Kurzweil to play synth sounds for certain songs?...I'd have to make sure that any transposition on the keyboard also applies to the midi being sent out 

 

Electro 6, no.

 

Electro 5, yes, it supports one external zone assignment per saved patch, that can either cover the whole keyboard or all keys above a specified split point (but it can't split and put the external sound below the split point). Note that the external zone assignment is very simple... just key range and MIDI channel, IIRC. It doesn't include definable Program Changes, for example, so the patch selection has to be done on your other device.

 

YC, yes, it supports 4 external zones per saved patch, with a lot of flexibility, including program changes and octave shifts. But the front panel Transpose functions does NOT alter the MIDI output... instead you have to program the transposition into the MIDI zone. It's fine if you're preparing all this stuff in advance, but not if you might need to transpose on the fly.

 

I have no experience with Mojo.