New Studiologic Numa X Piano

[CyberGene]

@Dockeys I kind of agree with you. If it wasn’t for a few small important things, I would have replaced my CP88 with a CP73 instead:

 

- I needed a hammer action keyboard with the absolute minimum travel weight because I have a herniated disc and the CP88 caused me a lot of pain. Numa X 73 is 11.7kg vs 13.1kg for the CP73. A small difference indeed but every gram counts 😀

- I remember when I had the Studiologic SL73 I was able to just fit it in my car trunk diagonally but it was a tight fit. Numa X 73 is the same casing and dimensions. Again, a very small advantage of 105cm vs 109cm but the CP73 is also slightly bulkier and there would be a great chance that it wouldn’t fit in the trunk

- Better MIDI implementation on the Numa. For instance I can easily turn external zones on and off from the 4 encoder/buttons whereas on the Yamaha you have to go into the advanced master control menus to do so. I even suggested it to Yamaha on the IdeaScale and was answered to instead prepare different performances with different zone combinations in advance.

- Aftertouch. As I said it’s really usable on the Numa, tested it with my Diva patches on the Mac

- Audio inputs can be sent to master reverb and delay. On the CP that’s not possible. I use a Behringer Model D sometimes and it lacks effects.

[AnotherScott]

11 hours ago, obxa said:

After first using the Numa cold on solo and duo gigs was going to get rid of it.  It sounded weird, especially through my Bose, and first couple of gigs I couldn't bond with it. 

 

 I tend to use the "Vintage" piano,  and have found turning the string release and duplex WAY down (like almost off....) made a gigantic difference.  Adjusted the sensitivity.   Also did EQ/FX tweaks for mono, as well stereo sounds, and now I'm super satisfied.   I'm baffled why so many settings (like pedal noise) are jacked up on the Numa.  At very least turning the reverb down, and the aforementioned piano parameters will really help.

5 hours ago, Dockeys said:

Jeez when I read this I’m even less convinced about this board. I had it for a few weeks and just didn’t bond with the sound and action enough to hold onto it.  I did love the format and weight and had a brief thought about reconsidering with the new firmware update. But don’t you think the manufacturers should be employing the best possible versions of all sounds to entice people to buy it? I’m not a preset junkie but I’d certainly like to have a board where I can play a sound I’m happy with and not have to resort to menu diving all the time. It’s like buying a car and then having to retune the engine before you drive it. 

 

I think it's probably that they want the factory patches to sound good/impressive "out of the box" to people playing it at home or on a showroom floor, esp. through headphones. Really, I have found it's common to many boards, that I have to tweak (e.g. get rid of the reverb) before using a board live (where effects that might be pleasing solo at home can turn into mud at a venue). Related... how few pianos have specific "mono" patches, so you then have to accommodate that. These issues are not at all unique to this board.

 

5 hours ago, CyberGene said:

- Better MIDI implementation on the Numa. For instance I can easily turn external zones on and off from the 4 encoder/buttons whereas on the Yamaha you have to go into the advanced master control menus to do so. I even suggested it to Yamaha on the IdeaScale and was answered to instead prepare different performances with different zone combinations in advance.

 

I've seen that perspective in other responses from Yamaha... use different Live Sets. I don't think they understand that, at least for some of us, one of the biggest appeals of the CP is what a great board it is for working the controls "live," e.g. when you're not working from a known song list with pre-programmed sounds/combinations. If you want to plan everything in advance and then hit user-preset buttons to choose what you need, okay, you can use the CP that way, but you can use tons of boards that way. The CP is in that small group of boards that is suitable for working all the functions live, as you need them. It's like they don't fully understand what they really have here.

[CyberGene]

I reported a few of the problems to Studiologic and received a very quick response from Gianni. Here's my email:

 

Quote

Hi, I received my Numa X Piano 73 from Thomann yesterday and I noticed a few issues:

 

1. The power switch needs to be pressed slowly to turn the instrument on, otherwise it doesn’t work. The detection is in the middle of the switch travel and not when fully pressed, see video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry6YDjEcjvw

 

2. The highest E key has a very loud thump noise when released. Unscrewing slightly one of the side panel screws solves the problem, see video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idGJSuekSaw

 

3. When there's a USB MIDI zone in a performance, it sends mod wheel, pitch bend and pedals through MIDI even when the zone is muted. The note events are not sent when the zone is muted which is OK. However all controllers for that zone should also be muted.

 

4. The AusGrand piano has an unnatural sustain that is artificial, too long and even self-amplifying when the pedal is pressed, see video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YbRJ8LRktQ

 

Furthermore, the pedal noises are way too loud and like a machine-gun for all piano models, see the above video. There should be a global setting where one can fully disable the pedal noise or set a lower volume that would override the one in the individual piano sounds. Same for electric pianos.

 

And finally a suggestion for an improvement: when you change the sounds for a zone and press a sound bank button and then start turning the main knob to change sounds. The menu automatically disappears after 10 seconds which is very unexpected because in the same time I may want to change to another instrument. However this will lead to the entire performance being changed and thus I will lose all my edits of the current performance. There should be a global setting that will allow for the sound list to not be automatically close. I prefer to close it myself through either the "apply" or "cancel" buttons.

 

Regarding problems 1 and 2. I would prefer to keep the instrument instead of exchanging it with Thomann if possible. If you think the power switch issues is not an indication of any underlying problem but will just require that I press the button slowly, then I am OK with that. And regarding the high E key noise, I am also OK to leave the screw slightly unscrewed. Also, if there's a cable inside or something that the screw is pushing towards the key or something and it's easy to access and twist it, I am also willing to fix it myself (I am an engineer) rather than exchanging the instrument for such a small problem. Please let me know how to proceed. It's a very good instrument otherwise and I like it a lot

 

He responded that the switch button is designed to not be easy to manipulate, it's a soft button (i.e. not a hardware button with two positions but instead just a simple switch and there's electronics that scan it). I'm not really convinced by that since turning the Numa off is *very* easy: regardless of how quick I press it, it will immediately shut it off halfway through the press. Maybe something is reversed there since I believe when you create protection logic, it should be difficult to shut it off and easy to turn it on, not the other way around 😀 Anyway, I don't mind, I already learned how to turn it on slowly.

 

Regarding the highest key thump he believes it might have happened due to a transportation shock or a drop and that the instruments are checked for such problems at the factory. Anyway, I am OK with one of the screws slightly unscrewed 😀

 

He agrees that the default binary switch sustain pedal causes unnaturally loud pedal noises and they may consider a global setting that can disable or tweak the level.

 

Finally, he confirms it's OK that when an external zone is muted only the note events are stopped, whereas control events (pedal, wheels) are still being transmitted and the zone has to be disabled (not just muted) to stop it completely. I verified that indeed all MIDI communication from the zone is fully disabled when the zone is disabled but I still think muting a zone should mute all MIDI events, not just the note ones. Besides, muting a zone can be done from the home screen by pressing the corresponding zone encoder which is one of the great advantages of the new interface. Disabling the zone requires menu diving though.

 

46 minutes ago, AnotherScott said:

I've seen that perspective in other responses from Yamaha... use different Live Sets. I don't think they understand that, at least for some of us, one of the biggest appeals of the CP is what a great board it is for working the controls "live," e.g. when you're not working from a known song list with pre-programmed sounds/combinations. If you want to plan everything in advance and then hit user-preset buttons to choose what you need, okay, you can use the CP that way, but you can use tons of boards that way. The CP is in that small group of boards that is suitable for working all the functions live, as you need them. It's like they don't fully understand what they really have here.

 

Indeed, not sure why Yamaha can't understand the need for better live control over the MIDI zones. I'm wondering if it's a deliberate decision to not make it appear as though their internal sounds are not good enough and people need to add external ones. In any case, I'm pretty certain they can easily fix it through a firmware update, so hopefully they will do it.

[Noah DC]

For what it’s worth, I’ve never spent two seconds thinking about the power switch on my board. I just … turn it on. And then when I am done I just turn it off? It’s just not been an issue on mine, to the extent that’s helpful for anyone to know. 

[CyberGene]

11 minutes ago, Noah DC said:

For what it’s worth, I’ve never spent two seconds thinking about the power switch on my board. I just … turn it on. And then when I am done I just turn it off? It’s just not been an issue on mine, to the extent that’s helpful for anyone to know. 

I think there might be a certain variability to their switch scanning logic because I don't remember having any problems whatsoever with the Numa X Piano 88 when I had it for a while. However with my Numa X Piano 73 unit I really thought it was defective or the power adapter was faulty, since I couldn't boot the piano. I even opened the manual to see whether I was missing something obvious such as e.g. double-click and hold or whoever knows what 😀 But there was nothing in the manual. After a few minutes of experimentations I finally managed to turn it on by pressing it very slowly but I am a software engineer and I'm used to testing every possible scenario and combination. I can easily imagine people who might not even think of pressing it slowly and would return the instrument instead, thinking it is faulty.

[HammondDave]

Yeah… like it’s so difficult to download new sounds. Look at the Montage, Nords, and MODX. The best sounds are from third parties. Here Studiologic offers them for free. 
 

I am sure many will find faults with any product. Even the $6000 Nords…. In the MI industry the saying “You get what you pay for” is not always true. The Piano X is way underpriced for what it offers. So are the Mojos. Many feel that Nords are way overpriced… especially with organ engines that are clearly inferior to H/S and Crumar. 
 

Maybe some just don’t trust Italian MI companies… Well, I have spent many years in Italy, and the craftsmanship and customer service is second to none. Go ahead, try to get someone from Yamaha, Nord, or Suzuki on the line… or to answer your emails. 

[CyberGene]

I just returned from my first rehearsal with the Numa X Piano 73 where I used a Rhodes piano that I dialed on the spot (I tweaked the Stage 1 model and added warm drive + Rotary + Delay + Reverb) and two external zones on different MIDI channels hooked to two Diva instances in Logic Pro X. I used a lot the function of switching on/off all three zones (the internal Rhodes and the two external zones). All was great. I also used the aftertouch for the synths. The Numa X 73 could fit exactly in my car trunk and not a centimeter more would fit. And I have no pain from moving it around. Absolutely brilliant instrument for the money and I'm already determined I will keep it. Apparently it's not a perfect instrument and there are the quality issues and quirks but when you consider the cons and pros it's a winner after all.

[CyberGene]

Seems I was not right in my thinking that muted external zones should not send control changes. Actually a muted zone on the Numa (unlike the Yamaha) doesn't cut the sound when you mute it. So, I can hold a chord on a zone and then mute it and it will keep sounding, and I can play other zones with my other hand but still use the expression pedal (or pitch bend and modulation) to control parameters on the the held chord (the muted zone)! I can also send volume control through the zone knob while it's muted. Basically a muted zone on the Numa is a zone with no keyboard control. It's not "muted" literally. That's so absolutely awesome I can't believe they thought of it. I'm already turning into a Studiologic fanboy ❤️ 

[FuzzyPants]

The new Yamaha CK88 and CK61 look to have taken some design queues from the Numa X.  Has anyone had a chance to compare them?

 

 

[CyberGene]

Yeah, I noticed that for example Yamaha uses the same zone color concept in the CK as we have in the Numa X. Maybe it's not Studiologic who invented it but they certainly made it popular recently with the Numa X Piano line 👍🏻 BTW, I am color blind (protanomaly, i.e. slight red-green deficiency) but I have no major problems with the colored zones.

[DeltaJockey]

Well, it's time time to kick this thread back to life! You guys are a bad influence in a good way, and after all the glowing comments, I pulled the trigger and purchased a GT88. I actually bought it back on March 2nd, but after a disastrous experience with the freighting company, who effectively "lost it", the retailer shipped me another one with a different courier.

I have to say I agree with the all the comments of those who like it. I mostly bought it for the new keybed to use as a controller, but I personally find the piano sounds to be quite to my taste. In fact downloading the Steinway B, delighted me as I'm a fan of that model for sample libraries. (If I hear another sterile sample library of a D or a CFX, I'm gonna go crazy) I like more organic smaller grands in line with the sound of my own Kawai acoustic.

 

Anyway, I've not been a fan of Fatar keybeds in general, never liked any Nords I've played, (not many),

 

but this keybed is sensory candy for me!

 

Hard to define, but nimble, solid, responsive, weighty yet light. Interestingly, the key body height appears a bit higher than the average. Perhaps contributing to it's chunky feel, or maybe just an illusion because I can see more of it? The metal bump strip along the front of the keybed could be classed as a separate musical instrument. It has a nice tensile ring to it when tapped

 

I was tempted to have it as a more compact replacement for my MP11SE, but ditching my Kawai, I think would be a mistake, so an alternative addition it is.

I've not had it long enough to give any in depth opinions yet, but first impressions are good. The build quality is pro, and worth the weight, but then I won't be gigging with it.

 

I'm still trying to sort out some weirdness withe the Numa Manager software. I have it loaded on a Macbook M1 Pro.There's no mention that it's Apple Silicon native, but there seems to be times where it's beach balling a lot, and hard to get it to respond, and I have to force a quit. Also, not sure if I'm understanding its operation yet, but if I try to rename a user program, it won't let me. Edit lock somewhere?

 

The interface seems ok, though not as intuitive for me as for some. I guess I just need more time with it. Italian ways of doing things vs Japanese/UK/US?

 

I also can't find a way to do program editing on board without using the software.

 

It ticks a lot of boxes for me, particularly a nice kind of wooded weighted action with attack/release and aftertouch, as the only other weighted action I have with all this is my Kronos, where the release velocity is only 0-64.

Sadly the one thing that doesn't suit me personally, is the USB audio. I will have to continue using an external interface, because I have my audio templates in Logic set up as 4 channel surround. (The Numa pianos do sound particularly good via my surround, comparable, in my opinion, to some of my vst's)

 

So that's my initial impression. So far I'm a happy potato, and look forward to spending my time pushing it to it's limits.

 

I wonder now, how durable it will be, and will the keybed and user interface retain all it's juicy goodness down the track?

 

 

[DeltaJockey]

So I was watching the short tutorial videos  on the Studiologic website for the Numa Piano X. I know AI is pretty much pervasive through media online these day, but would normally expect these types of videos to still be real humans. It' did seem there was something just a little off in the pronunciation of some words, like "but...ton" and a sameness in some expressive nuances of other words. Does anyone else think it sounds like it could be a speech synthesis engine providing the narration, or have I finally lost the plot?

I could be way off, but I immediately wondered if the folks at Studiologic who did the videos were native Italian speakers, and thought it would be best for the wider world to have a generic English speaking AI engine. Hmmm, maybe I've been watching too many Youtube AI narrations🥴

[CyberGene]

48 minutes ago, DeltaJockey said:

I could be way off, but I immediately wondered if the folks at Studiologic who did the videos were native Italian speakers, and thought it would be best for the wider world to have a generic English speaking AI engine.

That's also what I thought. On a side note, I'm also a non-native English speaker and I've often contemplated about creating YouTube videos where I review something in English for a wider reach but the prospect of making native speakers laugh at my pronunciation has always discouraged me 🧐

[stoken6]

44 minutes ago, CyberGene said:

I'm also a non-native English speaker and I've often contemplated about creating YouTube videos where I review something in English for a wider reach but the prospect of making native speakers laugh at my pronunciation has always discouraged me

There's loads of English-language content on YouTube created by non-native English speakers, I would hope that won't stop you. Simply disable comments if you don't want to see the hate.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[DeltaJockey]

9 hours ago, CyberGene said:

That's also what I thought. On a side note, I'm also a non-native English speaker and I've often contemplated about creating YouTube videos where I review something in English for a wider reach but the prospect of making native speakers laugh at my pronunciation has always discouraged me 🧐

Call  me old fashioned, but I for one am happy to hear a real person narrate with an accent and mispronounced words than be entertained by something artificial, (with mispronounced words), that disregards the fact that the audience are human. Trouble with social media is that, no matter what you say there will always be someone with a negative comment.

 

But I certainly understand your apprehension. I have a lot of respect for those folks who start out on Youtube gaining confidence as they go, and making slip ups from time to time. Where's the empathy in this world.

[LX888]

This is a bit unrelated  but...how hard is it to contact the people at Studiologic/ Numa these days?

 

I have a Numa 1 organ and I use to communicate with a person named Carlo Maffaei about it. He set up a percussion volume mod... but I was never able to able to get it to work. I am curious he if he still is with the company. 

 

This was all actually a while ago...around the time that the numa organ was released. ;But anyway info about whoever is with the company now would be appreciated.

[RDM]

The photo is not mine, just saw it in one of the FB groups. I think this is nicely done.

[Brad Kaenel]

On 3/29/2023 at 9:16 AM, LX888 said:

This is a bit unrelated  but...how hard is it to contact the people at Studiologic/ Numa these days?

 

I have used the Support page on their website several times, and they have responded to me quite promptly.  You may not get the fellow you spoke to years ago, but from my experience, I believe you will get someone knowledgeable.

 

https://www.studiologic-music.com/support/contact/

[gravy_no_g]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but does the Numa X support half-damper?

[CyberGene]

54 minutes ago, gravy_no_g said:

Apologies if this has already been covered, but does the Numa X support half-damper?

It supports it for sure with their own optional triple pedal. So, the functionality is there. Whether it supports half-damper with any other regular half-damper pedal needs to be confirmed since there are many different specs and types, some use potentiometers, others need to be powered through the connector and use electronics inside. 

[FuzzyPants]

 

 

[Kentkeys]

On 4/16/2023 at 8:56 PM, CyberGene said:

It supports it for sure with their own optional triple pedal.

Just to clarify: the SLP3-D triple pedal comes as standard with the Numa X Piano GT model. It is an option for the other versions, which come with the VFP1/10 sustain pedal as standard. The product page and specs for the SLP3-D can be found here.

[davinwv]

I was really hoping to see an updated SL88 Grand with the action from the GT at NAMM. Hopefully soon . . . 

[kenheeter]

The Studiologic triple pedal is a great piece of gear. Very robust and much more affordable than the Nord triple pedal. It offers all of the functions you'd expect with a triple pedal and can also be configured to change patches hands free.

[kenheeter]

My new favourite single keyboard rig - Numa X piano 73 with GSI Gemini desktop and D9X controller ( which I built from a kit ).  The MIDI controller features on the Numa X are amazing and I love the TP110 action.  I have VB3II as well as all of the modeled and sampled sounds from the Gemini and controlling everything is really simple.  The audio from the Gemini  feeds into the Numa X so I have one set of cables to my powered monitors.  Everything packs into one suitcase and the Numa X fits in a 61 note gig bag.  I use a K&M 18880 stand. It's an easy load in and setup with a small stage footprint. Just awesome!!!

[CyberGene]

7 minutes ago, kenheeter said:

Everything packs into one suitcase and the Numa X fits in a 61 note gig bag

Indeed, I wrote about that in my review on another piano forum. The Numa X Piano 73 is probably the most compact 73-key hammer action piano there is. It's exactly the reason why I bought it since it fits EXACTLY in my car trunk and even 1cm longer would have been too much already! But I also re-discovered it for its excellent MIDI capabilities. I really think there's no better 73-key stage piano for price/performance ratio right now.

[RDM]

 

[b3plyr]

On 4/19/2023 at 12:06 PM, kenheeter said:

My new favourite single keyboard rig - Numa X piano 73 with GSI Gemini desktop and D9X controller ( which I built from a kit ).  The MIDI controller features on the Numa X are amazing and I love the TP110 action.  I have VB3II as well as all of the modeled and sampled sounds from the Gemini and controlling everything is really simple.  The audio from the Gemini  feeds into the Numa X so I have one set of cables to my powered monitors.  Everything packs into one suitcase and the Numa X fits in a 61 note gig bag.  I use a K&M 18880 stand. It's an easy load in and setup with a small stage footprint. Just awesome!!!

What iPad holder are you using with the K & M 18880? Nice rig!

[Scotthoven]

Question re: USB audio and effects — it seems like the global equalizer settings are applied to USB audio, but not the Master FX (Delay, Reverb).  Am I missing something, like a setting perhaps?  Or is that just the way it is?

 

I assume from earlier discussions that Master FX are applied to the analog audio inputs but haven’t tried it myself.

 

[Using a Numa X Piano 73, iPad VST on USB] 

[DeltaJockey]

On 4/19/2023 at 4:37 AM, davinwv said:

I was really hoping to see an updated SL88 Grand with the action from the GT at NAMM. Hopefully soon . . . 

After finding the keybed of my GT to be the best asset, I'm hoping they bring out a controller version too. I'd love to have a second one as a backup, because they haven't been around long enough to see how robust they'll be over time yet.

 

Anybody else got the magnetic ipad/laptop holder yet? They don't seem to be available at all in my neighborhood.