Billy Joel vs Elton John ... Who's a better player?

[JoJoB3]

In the name that's all holy...stop it.

Billy. Easily.

Sir C Scale is for mom.

[TommyRude]

Please.  Christ, mother of Jesus, holy spirit, Moses of the tablets..

 

Handed down from God himself, it’s Elton in a cakewalk.

[D. Gauss]

 

 

again, no dog in this fight.  but if you wanna see someone actually having a blast and enjoying themselves, with no pop trappings/band to hide behind... ignore his by now shot voice, start at around 32:00 stick around for 36:20 onwards:

 

 

 

[miden]

They write different styles of songs requiring different playing techniques  - EJ imo, is more a singer/songwriter who adds piano, BJ is piano up front in a lot of his songs.....I could never ever see EJ playing Angry Young Man, although he might pull it off.

 

To me, neither is better or worse, just different, and I,  for one, am so grateful for the difference!

[David R]

I love both of them and they have both been deeply influential on me.

I would make the following observations:

- Billy relies on transposing his controller to the new keys he sings in whereas Elton actually plays them in the adjusted keys (from all the footage I have seen);

- Elton has a much deeper command of boogie-woogie and pre-rock blues piano (Billy’s “Root Beer Rag” notwithstanding)

- the piano break in Billy’s “Stiletto” is more intricate than anything Elton recorded at the time but I have not seen Billy play this tune live at all in recent years.

 

I think it’s a draw in terms of musicality and composition overall, but as a pianist with technical capacity - in 2024 at their ages - I think Elton is the stronger pianist.

[Rodan88]

Nothing against Billy, he's certainly got impressive pianistic abilities.

 

But unquestionably (IMO), Elton is the finer pianist.  I've been following both since the early 70s, I have seen both numerous times snce then at different stages of their careers, and was even fortunate enough to play with Billy (although I was accompanying his vocals on a few Sinatra songs, at his 50th birthday party)!

 

Two noteworthy examples of Elton's gifts, although it's all there in his recordings:

 

 11/17/70 - his early live record with just piano bass and drums.  Great stuff.  Check it out if you never have.

 

I, too, saw him live with only Ray Cooper on percussion.  At Madison Square Garden.  His time and playing were unbelievably solid, and there were a lot of piano solos and solo passages throughout the show, in songs where there are typically no piano solos.  It wasn't a short show at all (many songs on the set list), and the playing gave his vocals a rest, but the extra playing was by no means "filler."  And he held the huge audience in the palm of his hand the whole time.

 

But to me, the most impressive thing about Elton's piano playing is that he has his own style, and many trademark devices that he uses.  To me, that's the heaviest thing you can say about a player.  If you can recognize their playing immediately - love 'em or hate 'em - that's a remarkable achievement.

 

 

 

[D. Gauss]

Whether true or not, i always come away feeling the Joel technical stuff was muscle memory parts he practiced the shit out of and was reciting. Nothing wrong with that, but Elton can get loose as per the MTV clip above.

 

For the Joel lovers, you might appreciate my friend and sometimes Monday night bandmate's little spin on on Billy. you can jump ahead to around 3:45 or so (as long as you stick around past the chorus):

 

 

 

[JoJoB3]

Sidenote: I'd like to thank the OP for this thread which is an excellent tool in better being able to swiftly categorize each member into it's proper right and wrong bin.

 

[D. Gauss]

Worth pointing out that before super-stardom, Elton was an in demand session pianist for a fair amount of big artists' hits including: The Hollies (He Ain’t Heavy, He’s My Brother), Tom Jones (Delilah), Jackson Browne (Redneck Friend),  and others.  Joel? Not so much, though very early he may or may not (there is some dispute) have played on the Shangri Las (Leader of the Pack/walking in the sand). 

Fun fact: Elton, believe it or not, was almost the keyboardist/frontperson for both of the prog rock bands Gentle Giant (he got fired early on), and King Crimson!

 

 

 

[jazzpiano88]

I’ll go with Billy.  Elton was more of a chord pounder by and large.  Billy had a lot more harmony going on.  

[Konnector]

I was never a fan of EJ or BJ (flame suit on) but they're both very very capable pianists. Who's better? Doesn't matter. They've both left their mark.

 

A little off topic.....Here's BJ in his duo "Atilla" at 19 yrs old before he went solo and became a star playing hard rock on a raunchy wah wah 'd Hammond thru a Marshall. Who'da thunk it? I never knew about this album until a few months ago. Quite a departure from his solo career to say the least.   

 

 

 

[zephonic]

Freddy Mercury

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

1 hour ago, D. Gauss said:

Worth pointing out that before super-stardom, Elton was an in demand session pianist for a fair amount of big artists' hits including: The Hollies (He Ain’t Heavy, He’s My Brother), Tom Jones (Delilah), Jackson Browne (Redneck Friend),  and others.  Joel? Not so much, though very early he may or may not (there is some dispute) have played on the Shangri Las (Leader of the Pack/walking in the sand). 

Whoa, cool. I didn't know that (either of them), or forgot it if I did. I'm going to listen to all these tunes with that in mind a bit later. 

 

As for BJ remembering which notes he played on a session when he was 14...? I mean...maybe? But does he really? There's been a lot of shall we say "impeding" done to his memory in the years since then. But still, cool bio item. I wonder if anyone's alive who could say definitively it was or wasn't him.

 

https://www.songfacts.com/facts/the-shangri-las/leader-of-the-pack

[JoJoB3]

Plus Billy's far more real.  Let's see Elton risk a fan accompanying him!
 

Also be careful, don't piss him off! 
 

 

[MathOfInsects]

5 hours ago, D. Gauss said:

Worth pointing out that before super-stardom, Elton was an in demand session pianist for a fair amount of big artists' hits including: The Hollies (He Ain’t Heavy, He’s My Brother), Tom Jones (Delilah), Jackson Browne (Redneck Friend),  and others.  Joel? Not so much, though very early he may or may not (there is some dispute) have played on the Shangri Las (Leader of the Pack/walking in the sand). 

Fun fact: Elton, believe it or not, was almost the keyboardist/frontperson for both of the prog rock bands Gentle Giant (he got fired early on), and King Crimson!

 

Hmmm. Ok, definitely a Honky Cat vibe on those chops in Redneck Friend. Obviously channeling Nicky Hopkins there, too.

BUT I don't hear a note of piano in Delilah. And I barely hear one on the Hollies tune--maybe twice really on some distant chords in big moments, unless that's also piano in the right speaker. (But it sounds more like guitar.) So maybe the takeaway is that he was the guy playing parts that people ended up not using...?  😀

 

The BJ tunes...yeah, could be anyone. No wonder he's not sure. 

[AnalogGuy1]

On 6/7/2019 at 9:49 AM, Delaware Dave said:

El Lobo said:

there is no better

Who's better, Mozart or a 10 year old who's taken one piano lesson? Someone is a better player....

Clearly, any ten year old is going to be a better player than a dead guy.

[Delaware Dave]

17 hours ago, JoJoB3 said:

Sidenote: I'd like to thank the OP for this thread which is an excellent tool in better being able to swiftly categorize each member into it's proper right and wrong bin.

 

 

👍

 

I feel as though I'm a fairly competent piano player with 6 years of classical training. My bands play both EJ and BJ songs. I find playing EJ songs overall easier to play than BJ.  More intracacies to the playing with Billy's music.  This is how I based my decision.

 

I posted this 5 years ago   surprised that people are still biting at this post.

[MathOfInsects]

Steve Cropper’s parts are probably easier to play than Steve Vai’s, too, but I’d still give the crown to Cropper every time.

[Delaware Dave]

8 minutes ago, MathOfInsects said:

Steve Cropper’s parts are probably easier to play than Steve Vai’s, too, but I’d still give the crown to Copper every time.

 

You're going to drag this topic down by introducing guitar comparisons? If you are going to do that should we add a topic of 'why do guitar players need 100 watt tube amps on "10" on a 10 x 10 stage'? So that they can get their TONE????

[MathOfInsects]

I call them the Buttmy Tonebro’s.

“But my tone, bro…!”

[jazzpiano88]

I'll take Billy's Accordion over Elton's

 

 

 

 

[Legatoboy]

Someone from a famous  SF subculture band asked me once....'Billy or Elton?' ...Mind you that the same SF crowd of musicians had Nicky Hopkins in thier midst for many years and used him often...I said Billy plays like a local guy NY area Tristate guy and I told him I related to him that way as a player, so it's unfair for me sort of to have to pick I said...With the influences growing up in and around NYC, mine are similiar to Billy's in certain ways, even on Hammond Organ when Billy played only organ in clubs on Northern Blvd, and my brother and his band would run into Billy or compete for gigs ...I 've felt that since the early 70's  .... and in my piano players mind... rightly or wrongly ... he plays like a New Yorker / Tristate area guy I said... I know that is a little stupid to say, but I actually believe that.... the big Rock people tend to go more with Elton ....there is classical in Elton's playing /writing, I hear Handel and Greig.. more European based.. I can hear that in some Elton's compositions and playing...

The in between folks don't like Elton as much maybe....the not purely Rock people/audiences. I too think Billy has more harmonic diversity in his playing and his technical chops I think are a little swifter ...  I said something like that to aforementioned 'rock star' who sat in with my working band often when I was with them......But for pure rock writing... After that debate and conversation, and listening and thinking about it , I feel Elton is better as a pure Rock pianist/artist  ...more straight ahead ... the song structures also...true,  he is a chord pounder... as someone said!   Different Flavors of Ice Cream for different days/people's taste....'Better' in art/music/dance is often a relative term ....  the person who asked me was a member of the 'Hot Tuna's' touring band for many years... so 'Elton' for him was the preference.  A guitarist... also, he's not a piano/keyboard player ..... I understand this!  Billy is friends with bandleaders I have worked with out East on Long Island... and had come down to a few of our(my) gigs.....that was a hairy gig for me knowing he was there ... I thanked him for his music on break..and said hello.  

 

Remember Elton started as a blues player in Long John Baldgry's (sp) band..... he comes from a more direct rock/blues place as an electric player.... Billy age folks, like my brother, in  around NYC were often originally folkies many of them ... song writing was big in the area.... Peace Core types and such!  

 

Their are diverse reasons I feel players are who they are in terms of environment and family influences when growing up... regardless to external things  that are argued later on after people become 'famous' ...... 

[AnotherScott]

If you want to compare their styles, here's EJ playing a BJ song. And it sounds probably just the way you'd expect EJ to play it.

 

 

[Leroy C]

They're probably both far better pianists than is reflected in most of their music.  So I have no idea whom is better.

[JoJoB3]

* but really, neither of these Pop Pop sUpEr StArZ are ever on mind in regard to 'piano mastery' (or at all tbh). 
Now Kenny Kirkland on the other hand...💥
(Let's keep **** REAL)

[jazzpiano88]

Are we talking the Bell Curve of piano talent?     I'd put Billy at the 62nd percentile.   Elton is the 52nd percentile.    For comparison Larry Goldings is at the 90th percentile.  

[D. Gauss]

35 minutes ago, jazzpiano88 said:

Are we talking the Bell Curve of piano talent?     I'd put Billy at the 62nd percentile.   Elton is the 52nd percentile.    For comparison Larry Goldings is at the 90th percentile.  

 

Indeed. And even though Larry has done a bunch of stuff with my friend Dave Stryker, I'd still put James Booker at 98th percentile (I'm sure Dr. John would have put him higher). As always, temper that with the fact that i'm a blues/roots guy, not a jazzbo, though Monk is way up there too in my book.

[HammondDave]

On 6/16/2019 at 9:20 AM, Stephen Fortner said:

I've seen the Billy and Elton show a couple of times. IMHO Billy is the more pyrotechnic rock player. When Elton stretches out and solos though, it was clear to me he's more sophisticated harmonically. His understanding of New Orleans-style playing is unmistakable, too.

Elton was a huge fan of Leon Russell’s playing. Yesterday I was listening to both “Burn Down the Mission” and “Amoreena” and could hear Russell’s style in Elton’s playing.  

[Markay]

4 hours ago, HammondDave said:

Elton was a huge fan of Leon Russell’s playing. Yesterday I was listening to both “Burn Down the Mission” and “Amoreena” and could hear Russell’s style in Elton’s playing.  

Agree. As is well documented Eltons collaboration later in life with Leon.

 

https://youtu.be/quegy8vLUls?si=WQg1ulvQxbXQ17py

 

EJ and BJ Speak speak to me through their songs. Who's the better guitar guitar player Vai or Maltsteem? Its all about the song.

 

 

 

 

[D. Gauss]

52 minutes ago, Markay said:

 Vai or Maltsteem? Its all about the song.

 

 

 

 

 

or "The Fury!"