Crumar Seven

[AnotherScott]

Again I ask: When has Guido NOT done this? He built a little VST that turned into one of the best tonewheel emulations in the world thru many updates. Ditto for his leslie simulator. Ditto for his reed piano model. Ditto for his clavinet model. Ditto for his tine piano module. They are all among the best in the world now.

You forgot his trumpet in the Gemini module!

 

What makes anybody think that having conquered all these, he is going to sit on his hands and not apply his energy and creativity to the acoustic piano model?

I expect that he will likely be working on that. In the mean time, we have what we have. But I think it's also worth keeping in mind that even the best models out there now--Roland V-piano and Pianoteq--are by no means universally considered to be the best available digital pianos. Those implementations have many fans, but many still preferred various sampled pianos. I'm guessing that if Guido has already figured out how to do it better, he'd have done it. Or who knows, maybe it's in progress. But it's also possible that a top quality modeled piano is simply a particularly hard nut to crack, and we (and perhaps Guido himself) cannot yet tell when (or if) such an implementation from him will happen.

[AnotherScott]

 

So you need a module, laptop or something with the Seven to do solo piano work.

 

You may be overestimating the aesthetic sensitivity of the average solo piano audience. I haven't heard anything in the videos that would make people drop their dinner forks and flee from the room.

 

I'd agree that for someone who does lots of solo piano work and only occasionally plays band stuff where EPs are needed, the Seven may not be a logical choice.

I agree with all of that, Adan. And you know, for a long time, people were very happy playing the Kurz triple strike. And Elton John went a long way with a Roland. We got spoiled by what's out there, and of course the manufacturers also benefit by trying to persuade us that we need their newest, best sounds, but most gigs can be played perfectly well with merely "average" piano sounds. The differences usually matter more to us as players than they do to any audience we'd be playing for.

[ElmerJFudd]

Again I ask: When has Guido NOT done this? He built a little VST that turned into one of the best tonewheel emulations in the world thru many updates. Ditto for his leslie simulator. Ditto for his reed piano model. Ditto for his clavinet model. Ditto for his tine piano module. They are all among the best in the world now.

 

What makes anybody think that having conquered all these, he is going to sit on his hands and not apply his energy and creativity to the acoustic piano model?

 

I'm sure this is true - but it's not the case at the moment and that's a factor for me. YMMV. I'd love to have the Seven, but it's an impractical purchase, luxury item (again, for me). It would stay home, maybe I'd drag out to jam with friends from time to time.

 

You may be overestimating the aesthetic sensitivity of the average solo piano audience. I haven't heard anything in the videos that would make people drop their dinner forks and flee from the room.

 

I'd agree that for someone who does lots of solo piano work and only occasionally plays band stuff where EPs are needed, the Seven may not be a logical choice.

 

Things have changed the last few years, you know. Kurzweil Forte, Nord Piano Library, Yamaha Motif... with competition from software piano developers they couldn't offer a 40mb acoustic piano on a ROM any longer. Our expectations are higher. And with the amount of time we put into playing our repertoire well - it means a lot to us to have a portable digital piano that really sounds like the real deal - and this includes the amplification problem issue too. It's not easy getting a digital instrument to sing like an acoustic.

 

Most audience/listeners only hear basic timbre (that's a piano, that's an organ, etc.). Very true. And while they can't tell the difference in the details - they can tell if something is honky, abrasive, tinny, too cutting. You see this by them walking away from the speaker - knowingly or subconsciously. I don't think that this is the case with the piano model we are hearing on the seven. To me it sounds quite thin in the sustain/decay, and the variation in attack is not what I am wanting to hear. But they haven't offered much to go by yet. Would really like to hear Guido solo this engine like he has with the CP and the Rhodes.

 

Again, reiterating - I do find this instrument desirable. I love the concept. The AP is important to me however, and I have to be sold on the action. But these things are true on every instrument from every developer (for me). Again. YMMV.

 

 

 

[AnotherScott]

I think it largely comes down to the fact that this board is not for everyone, and that's okay.

[Doerfler]

I think it largely comes down to the fact that this board is not for everyone, and that's okay.

 

overstating the obvious. Thank you, Scott.

[mate stubb]

Glum thought for the day:

 

None of this matters when our generation dies out. The laptop kids don't care about any of this.

[jahfume]

Im also curious what ABECK is getting so excited about as he's got the same rhodes sounds in the Gemimi module in his DMC-122 controller.Are the sounds more refined or diferent in some way in the Seven?

I thought Guido said back in this thread that the sounds are the same as in the Gemini ( When they are coincident.)

 

So ABECK what are you hearing man?

[jahfume]

 

CRUMAR Nostalgia for the Text generation.

[ElmerJFudd]

Abeck sold his DMC-122, no?

It was that someone else.

 

I just did a gig with 2 guys on jazz guitar who are right now in university. They played great. The future is not lost. Though jazz will never be pop radio again, The EDM sound will fade and playing styles will return.

[Al Coda]

The EDM sound will fade and playing styles will return.

 

That´s what I hoped for in vain since many, many years meanwhile.

 

A.C.

[wd8dky]

The EDM sound will fade and playing styles will return.

 

That´s what I hoped for in vain since many, many years meanwhile.

 

A.C.

 

Yet, for many, many years, it continues. Perhaps we can just look the other way from what we don't like, and find more of what we do?

[Jazz+]

Jazz+ has the Mojo61 and is asking for the piano model from the Seven because he isn't satisfied with how the piano in the Mojo61 plays. That's unfortunate and a totally fixable situation.

Thank you!

[Jazz+]

I never criticized the modeled AP sound in the Seven. I thought it sounded fine the first time I heard the Seven AP demos. Itvsounds as if it would be especially good for live playing. And I am almost sure it would behave better in the Mojo 61 than its current sampled AP which has serious lag time problems when triggered from its Mojo keyboard. I have no need for a sampled AP that cannot keep up with my performance. All the other sounds in the mojo 61, which are modeled sounds, are capable of keeping up with my playing. My expectation is that a modeled AP would behave better in the Mojo 61 and not lag so much. I have been calling for a digital acoustic piano replacement in the Mojo 61 for a year now. I cannot understand why the modeled AP will replace the lame sampled piano (it wont sprint) in an update.

 

Guido, why is it no?

[ZioGuido]

Guido, will the new piano be available in the Gemini? The Gemini was not marketed as a clonewheel organ, so using your logic above will the Gemini receive the new piano?

 

There are a few things I'm checking during these days to see if the AP model can find its way into the Gemini as the 16th engine, but I'm not sure yet. Fingers crossed.

 

 

[ZioGuido]

I cannot understand why the modeled AP will not replace the current sluggish sampled piano in an update.

 

Guido, why is it no?

 

Unfortunately there's a technical reason - that I can't explain - that prevents the Mojo61 from doing a few things, including hosting the AP synthesis model or being bi-timbral. The Mojo61 stays where it is now, and it's not little considering it has 7 out of 15 synthesizers from the Gemini, plus the sample playback engine.

 

One thing that could be done is to replace the existing piano sampleset with a new one, but this can only be done whenever we get to source a better piano sample.

[ZioGuido]

I'm guessing that if Guido has already figured out how to do it better, he'd have done it. Or who knows, maybe it's in progress.

 

And I can confirm that I am still working on improving the AP and the CP models... It's likely that the Seven will see its first firmware update very soon.

 

 

But it's also possible that a top quality modeled piano is simply a particularly hard nut to crack, and we (and perhaps Guido himself) cannot yet tell when (or if) such an implementation from him will happen.

 

I couldn't have said it better.

 

 

[nadroj]

Guido,

 

Just wanted to say thank you for the interaction and the back and forths you're doing here. Really appreciated. Also thank you for providing (mostly!) solid reasoning and explanations for the included/not included features in Crumar's different instruments. Means a lot being able to dialogue this openly with you.

 

I hope the Seven sells well.

[ElmerJFudd]

I'm guessing that if Guido has already figured out how to do it better, he'd have done it. Or who knows, maybe it's in progress.

 

And I can confirm that I am still working on improving the AP and the CP models... It's likely that the Seven will see its first firmware update very soon.

 

 

But it's also possible that a top quality modeled piano is simply a particularly hard nut to crack, and we (and perhaps Guido himself) cannot yet tell when (or if) such an implementation from him will happen.

 

I couldn't have said it better.

 

 

excellent

 

 

 

[DanL]

I like those Rhodes demos. I think this is a cool form factor vintage looking yet modern on the inside board, and if my performance needs were where this board's capabilities lay, I'd give it serious consideration. Just like some of the other newer boards liked the Legend or Mojo, if I were in a situation where I only needed that sound then those would be the way to go. Unfortunately pretty much every project I'm in needs a lot of versatility from the keyboard chair and having a board that can only do a few things puts them out of contention. I suppose I could say that about my Electro, but with 73 keys it has the ability to cover certain gigs by itself for me and then integrates well with the rest of my rig for the other projects.

[Delaware Dave]

Guido, will the new piano be available in the Gemini? The Gemini was not marketed as a clonewheel organ, so using your logic above will the Gemini receive the new piano?

 

There are a few things I'm checking during these days to see if the AP model can find its way into the Gemini as the 16th engine, but I'm not sure yet. Fingers crossed.

 

This may end up being my holy grail. I think I need to be thinking about rack options that allows me to rack the gemini and other connecting devices like my mixer and audio/power cords, transport the rack with ease and allow for quick connection to my keyboards.

[DanL]

Guido, will the new piano be available in the Gemini? The Gemini was not marketed as a clonewheel organ, so using your logic above will the Gemini receive the new piano?

 

There are a few things I'm checking during these days to see if the AP model can find its way into the Gemini as the 16th engine, but I'm not sure yet. Fingers crossed.

 

This may end up being my holy grail. I think I need to be thinking about rack options that allows me to rack the gemini and other connecting devices like my mixer and audio/power cords, transport the rack with ease and allow for quick connection to my keyboards.

 

That would be a good move. I've heard you talk about how long it takes you to set up. With my rack prewired, I can set up my Echoes rig in about 10 minutes and most of that is running power and pedals. If I were really industrious I'd get a 2nd set of all the power stuff and pedals and make 1 loom for that too.

[Delaware Dave]

Unfortunately pretty much every project I'm in needs a lot of versatility from the keyboard chair and having a board that can only do a few things puts them out of contention.

Dan, the Gemini offers alot of instrumentation. Guido expanded the wavetable about a year ago. So in addition to the acoustic piano and the electromechanicals, it also offers strings, brass, VA Synth, FM pianos, flutes, pads, and a myriad of other instruments/sounds and is bi-timbral, so you can blend two sounds at a time. Check the link below:

 

http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=page&p=TBLEXP01

[ABECK]

Im also curious what ABECK is getting so excited about as he's got the same rhodes sounds in the Gemimi module in his DMC-122 controller.Are the sounds more refined or diferent in some way in the Seven?

So ABECK what are you hearing man?

 

The Rhodes sounds the same, but the phaser sounds quite different. I typically will use my small stone pedal to get the sound I like - but Guido's vid is spot on. If that is from the same Phaser in the Gemini - I'd love to see his settings!

 

Other than that, the form factor is what excites me most. I do not prefer playing Rhodes/EP from the organ action keybed.

 

Oh - and it looks bad-ass on stage (the Seven)

[ABECK]

Abeck sold his DMC-122, no?

Nope - I ended up keeping it. My issue was with the weight/size and my ability with a torn rotator cuff to cart it around.

I've gone through a lot of rehab (a lot) and that's not a concern anymore. So, no way am I getting rid of it.

[DanL]

Unfortunately pretty much every project I'm in needs a lot of versatility from the keyboard chair and having a board that can only do a few things puts them out of contention.

Dan, the Gemini offers alot of instrumentation. Guido expanded the wavetable about a year ago. So in addition to the acoustic piano and the electromechanicals, it also offers strings, brass, VA Synth, FM pianos, flutes, pads, and a myriad of other instruments/sounds and is bi-timbral, so you can blend two sounds at a time. Check the link below:

 

http://www.genuinesoundware.com/?a=page&p=TBLEXP01

 

I'm familiar with it's capability, it doesn't do what I need. My gig is either organ/piano/ep, or full blown workstation requirements along with the organ/piano/ep.

[ElmerJFudd]

The Gemini module with its dual DSPs does splits and layers?

And do you need to create these patches with web browser over WiFi?

Or can you do it from the front panel with input from your keyboard controller?

And how easy is it to recall patches from a controller keyboard with the Gemini module?

 

[DanL]

The Gemini module with its dual DSPs does splits and layers?

And do you need to create these patches with web browser over WiFi?

Or can you do it from the front panel with input from your keyboard controller?

And how easy is it to recall patches from a controller keyboard with the Gemini module?

 

Bi-timbral.

[Bollani73]

[mate stubb]

 

Embedded for the click averse:

 

[video:youtube]

[AnotherScott]

Very nice. And just as the Mojo presents well as an organ that has some extra sounds, this presents well as a Rhodes that has some extra sounds. It may not be the board some people want it to be, but it looks to me like it's great at being the board it's supposed to be. I could imagine something like this being what Rhodes would come out with today