QSC K8.2 Keyboard Amplification -- Quick Review

[cphollis]

Any hint of harshness or excess treble when cranked?

 

Great question. I like a bit of treble cut in live situations, because otherwise you get lost in the mix. Not shrill at all.

 

So, nice treble, but not excessive to my ears. What I liked is that all the attacks (pianos, organs, etc.) were clearly heard without being, well, obnoxious.

 

Once you get past the crystal highs, the deep bass and mids really impress.

 

That being said, the more expensive RCF TT08a units have a smoother high-end range. It's all about bang for buck

[OrpheusNY]

Chuck, if the opportunity arises, could you try putting one of the 8.2s on top of your ssV.3 and seeing what that does for your AP's?

 

 

[cphollis]

That's on the agenda for today's experimentations

[cphollis]

Spent some more time fooling around. Wanted to switch between (a) familiar SSv3, (b) SSv3 plus single K8.2 and © full pair of K8.2s.

 

Not much to report with the baseline of the CPS SSv3. It sounds like it always does. Not the most exceptional clarity, but good enough for most smaller outings where simple is good.

 

Next up, the SSv3 pointed downwards, K8.2 centered on the SSv3's side firing speaker like this:

 

The trick here is to let the K8.2 do the heavy lifting, and only dialing in a modest amount of CPS "width". A marked improvement, quite pleasant, plenty of volume, bass and crisp trebles.

 

Really liked it with the K8.2 pointing at me. Repositioned the unit so I was outside the 105 degree cone of dispersion, and it wasn't bad at all to listen to.

 

I could play anything from a small acoustic gig to a modestly loud electric gig with this setup. It doesn't take much CPS volume to deliver the stereo effect. The K8.2 was set to flat response, no EQ really needed anywhere, even with Nord APs.

 

And, finally, back to a pair of K8.2s sitting on poles.

 

Back to the same wonderful, enveloping rich sound as before. If you're sitting in the sweet spot, the SSv3 + K8.2 combo is no match for the pair of K8.2s.

 

So, bottom line?

 

If you like your SSv3 and want to make it more better, the K8.2-on-top trick is definitely a sweet upgrade. You'll be louder, cleaner, and get more bass as well -- no real need for a sub unless you're doing some really thunkin' heavy bass.

 

Perfect for jazz gigs, small clubs and similar - or anywhere placement could be a problem. Small and unobtrusive, can be placed almost anywhere on stage.

 

But if you have the luxury of placing a pair of poles with a decent soundstage, a pair of K8.2s (or similar) is the mo' bettah way to go.

 

 

[AnotherScott]

finally, back to a pair of K8.2s sitting on poles.

Placed how? i.e. at either side of the stage; at either side of the keyboard? I assume not right next to each other angled out, as has sometimes been discussed, as that would be at odds with the subsequent "sweet spot" statement. Speaking of which, in light of your statement... "If you're sitting in the sweet spot, the SSv3 + K8.2 combo is no match for the pair of K8.2s," does your conclusion "if you have the luxury of placing a pair of poles with a decent soundstage, a pair of K8.2s (or similar) is the mo' bettah way to go" vary with whether the layout of the room is such that you can expect a good amount of the audience to be in the sweet spot? Is that what you mean about a "decent soundstage"?

 

So many of my gigs are weddings and the like. Typically, the "listeners" are at tables, mostly far outside any sweet spot. Many of the "dancers" are in/near the sweet spot, but mostly not facing the stage while dancing, so I don't think that counts as sweet spot either! If we're playing a club, more (but by no means all) of the audience is in or near the sweet spot and facing the stage... but in those cases, we're more often playing through house systems anyway. All of that is why I usually stick with mono in the first place, though the idea of just giving the sound some 3-dimensionality is appealing... which is what makes me periodically reconsider the SpaceStation (now that it's lighter), or back to what I said up top, using two speakers pretty close to each other but facing away from each other, which I think still gives the sound a kind of depth/spread that you don't get from a single speaker, even though there's no "stereo imaging" per se to be had... not much of a sacrifice if few people ever really experience that anyway. But my own experimentations in this regard have been minimal.

 

[cphollis]

finally, back to a pair of K8.2s sitting on poles.

Placed how? i.e. at either side of the stage; at either side of the keyboard? I assume not right next to each other angled out, as has sometimes been discussed, as that would be at odds with the subsequent "sweet spot" statement. Speaking of which, in light of your statement... "If you're sitting in the sweet spot, the SSv3 + K8.2 combo is no match for the pair of K8.2s," does your conclusion "if you have the luxury of placing a pair of poles with a decent soundstage, a pair of K8.2s (or similar) is the mo' bettah way to go" vary with whether the layout of the room is such that you can expect a good amount of the audience to be in the sweet spot? Is that what you mean about a "decent soundstage"?

 

So many of my gigs are weddings and the like. Typically, the "listeners" are at tables, mostly far outside any sweet spot. Many of the "dancers" are in/near the sweet spot, but mostly not facing the stage while dancing, so I don't think that counts as sweet spot either! If we're playing a club, more (but by no means all) of the audience is in or near the sweet spot and facing the stage... but in those cases, we're more often playing through house systems anyway. All of that is why I usually stick with mono in the first place, though the idea of just giving the sound some 3-dimensionality is appealing... which is what makes me periodically reconsider the SpaceStation (now that it's lighter), or back to what I said up top, using two speakers pretty close to each other but facing away from each other, which I think still gives the sound a kind of depth/spread that you don't get from a single speaker, even though there's no "stereo imaging" per se to be had... not much of a sacrifice if few people ever really experience that anyway. But my own experimentations in this regard have been minimal.

 

For these experiments, I've placed the pair three ways (a) across the room, facing at me, (b) a few feet behind me, about 10 feet apart, and © as near-field floor monitors -- in front, at my sides, and behind.

 

In each case, I'm sitting in the sweet spot, so that's what I was reporting on.

 

As far as what the band and/or the audience hears, well, that's a different story, as you might guess.

 

For medium-sized gigs, I end up putting one pole at each side of the stage in back of everyone. Most of the band is in the sweet spot, as is most of the audience. The only one who doesn't hear lush stereo is me. Sometimes I'll bring along the SSv3 and give it a feed just so I can hear myself in stereo.

 

For smaller gigs, it's the SSv3. Maybe with the K8.2 going forward. My K8 wasn't enough of a sonic upgrade to make it all that interesting, but that's changed with the K8.2.

 

Certainly placement is almost a non-issue with the SSv3+K8.2 setup.

 

I'm not going to wade into the stereo vs. mono debate. I use a lot of stereo voices and effects, so -- yeah -- I'm in the stereo camp. And if the band/audience can hear the same thing, so much the better.

 

Haven't tried the two speakers close together facing apart thing. If I wanted that sort of dispersion, I'd go with a vertical line array or the SSv3.

 

Cheers!

 

-- Chuck

[AnotherScott]

For smaller gigs, it's the SSv3. Maybe with the K8.2 going forward. My K8 wasn't enough of a sonic upgrade to make it all that interesting, but that's changed with the K8.2.

I have thought about the lighter SSv3 stacked with the ZXa1 I already have, and I expect that it would sound quite good... but tending to be lazy in my setups, I can imagine I might not bother, and just end up sticking with one or the other, unless I really got much more satisfaction from the combo.

[Reezekeys]

Not to enter the mono vs stereo debate also, but even if some in the audience aren't exactly in the sweet spot, so what? I'm sure my piano sounds better out front than if it was being reproduced by a single speaker. Even if the piano itself was mono, having two speakers is gonna cover more of the room and bandstand, so that's a win there too.

 

I'd be real curious to do a direct A-B between the K8s and the 8.2s with the exact same signal source. I assumed the new models just added some bells & whistles to stay competitive with everybody else's offerings. The new amp wattages don't impress me as very significant changes since I believe neither old nor new models are gonna get anywhere near clipping no matter how loud you push it unless you like making your ears bleed! I mean really, 500 watts continuous through a single 8" speaker, are you kidding me? Don't their DSP algos prevent that?

[cphollis]

I can't A/B my K8s and K8.2s as they are in different states, but -- we're talking serious sonic upgrade, at least to my ears.

 

Sure, there are new bells and whistles (e.g. presets, etc.). And, yeah, more marketing watts. The notched monitor cabinet is nice, but not unique.

 

I look past all that stuff, and go with what my ears tell me. And they're telling me "mmmm, yummy".

[RandyFF]

Back when I was trying to decide between different speakers in the $500-$800 price range, I was worried about getting enough bass. JDan (?) assured me that the k10 has almost as much bass as the k12 and was often more than he needed.

 

I went with the k10 and have been pleasantly surprised at how much bass it has, more than I would have expected. I NEVER use the Deep Mode, and often have it on the Ext Sub setting.

 

Your appreciation for the K8.2 is good stuff! An even smaller, lighter speaker than the K10 with surprising bass output and sounds good on piano! As a wannabe TT08 owner, I'd love to see the shootout that starts with the TT08 as the reference point and then reviews the ZXA1, K8.2 and any other piano worthy speaker under $1k.

 

Speakers like the Presonus line looks intriguing, but the $1,200-$1,300 price point and heavy weight and large size wouldn't fit the bill for those of us looking for that magic bullet of reasonable cost, great sound, and easy schlep.

 

Thanks for all the speaker reviews (and being the guy that has the top of the line speakers to compare them to!).

[cphollis]

The Presonus was interesting to me as they had licensed the coax time-domain correction algorithms from Fulcrum Acoustics, which are much, much pricier. One of the main reasons the FAs sound truly unique, albeit at nosebleed prices.

 

Couldn't get past the size/weight issue with the Presonus line, plus not much talk of them from keyboard folks online. Maybe as FOH for a bar band that has a trailer full of gear, but that's not my deal.

 

As I said above, my initial assessment is that the K8.2s can offer 80% or better of what my RCF TT08a units can do, and do so at a fraction of the cost. So I think they're gonna be pretty darn popular with this crowd before long.

 

I write the speaker reviews because no one else was doing it. If you're in the market, it can be hard to find a single dealer who has a broad range of equipment, and is willing to let you spend the afternoon trying things out.

 

Besides, you never know how something is going to sound until you try to gig with it in the real world.

 

Since I have all this PA gear -- and have owned plenty in the past, plus some road trips to try other gear -- I can do reasonable compares from the point of view of a gigging AP-centric player.

 

My public service to the community

[cphollis]

Quick update?

 

I've now played a few gigs with them, and -- yes -- my original impressions continue to be confirmed. These units are the complete bomb as far as price/performance.

 

The RCF TT08-a units have a bit smoother mid-range and highs. The K8.2s stomp all over them in bass and sheer presence. Just what you might want for those louder gigs. For a fraction of the price.

 

It might take a while to be recognized in the community, but these babies are the bomb for bar-band folks that like to bring game. Also, way cool for FOH gigs.

[jazzpiano88]

Quick update?

 

I've now played a few gigs with them, and -- yes -- my original impressions continue to be confirmed. These units are the complete bomb as far as price/performance.

 

The RCF TT08-a units have a bit smoother mid-range and highs. The K8.2s stomp all over them in bass and sheer presence. Just what you might want for those louder gigs. For a fraction of the price.

 

It might take a while to be recognized in the community, but these babies are the bomb for bar-band folks that like to bring game. Also, way cool for FOH gigs.

Hmmm... Just what I need.... another data point to confuse the neural network!

 

I was just about to pull the trigger on the TT's for gigging. I would like additional bass capability. Now I have to pause and think.

 

 

[bill bosco]

wonder how they'll reproduce a good clone organ , the viscount demos through k-8s souned very nice

[AnotherScott]

The RCF TT08-a units have a bit smoother mid-range and highs. The K8.2s stomp all over them in bass and sheer presence. Just what you might want for those louder gigs. For a fraction of the price.

I couldn't justify the TT08... despite the more practical weight, it bugged me to spend so much money on something that didn't sound quite as good as the less expensive JBL PRX625 I already had (though rarely used, because of the weight). I did think the TT08 sounded better than the ZXa1 I use (which in turn I thought sounded better than the QSC K8), but the ZXa1 was "good enough" and I still had the JBLs for times I needed them. But if the K8.2 gets me noticeably better sound then the EV for less than half the price of the TT08, it's awfully tempting, even though 19 lbs is nicer than 28. Especially as I have dual use... keys and general PA... and for the latter, I have occasionally felt I was pushing the EV to their limits.

 

I've often gigged with the Roland SA-300--which moves as a pair of 25 lb boxes--just for the convenient features/ergonomics even though it doesn't sound as good as the EV. The EQ and extra connectivity of the QSC would make it that much less tempting to take the Roland, especially if the sound is that much better again. Though I hate dealing with poles, and for the times it is my "main" as well as my monitor, I probably don't want to just sit it on the floor, low as it is...

 

[agitato]

Is it possible that the k8.2 actually reproduces acoustic piano sounds better, than the zxa1-90, the 9 lb. weight increase, more versatile mixer, variable speed cooling fan and dsp, aside?

[Al Quinn]

Chuck, it would be very helpful to hear a recording that compares your Nord digital AP through a pair of K8.2's vs. a pair of TT08A's. Is it possible?

[cphollis]

Hi Al -- I'd love to oblige, the problem is that each pair is separated by about 1400 miles.

 

The K8.2 are my speakers in Mass for the summer scene, the RCF TT08-a pair in Florida.

 

Each is going to stay where it is, for the time being. I suppose I can record some material on one, then do the same when I eventually return to Florida -- but it would be in different surroundings using different recording equipment, so maybe not all that helpful.

 

If I would surmise using recollections, I think the RCF TT08-a would win in a blind listening test playing APs almost every time, except maybe very low bass presence (~50 Hz) and sheer decibels. Neither is that important to me.

 

But then you factor in bang-for-buck. If you can find them in your local GC, they are worth auditioning.

[_Maximus_]

Very interesting, I bought a K10 because of a thread like this when they first came out, would it be worth it to upgrade to the smaller K8.2 factor now that it can be used as floor monitors, anybody else on this train?

[b3plyr]

Chuck-is this a fair comparison of the K8.2s and the RCF TT08s since you don't have them at the same location to A & B? Are you comparing based on how you remembe howr the RCFs sound?

 

I think my K10.2s sound great, but may pickup the K8.2s. I agree the .2 series are a nice update.

[niacin]

The Nords have a lower output than most other brands of keyboard. This has been an issue, and known problem, since the first Electro. There are old threads on this forum where it was discussed at some length and the solution was always to bring a mixer. I think the newer models have a hotter output, but perhaps still lower than other brands. My Roland Integra has a really hot (and clean) output if I crank it, way hotter than the Electro 5.

 

 

 

I've tried a Nord E4 directly into the back of the K8.2, and, while you got some decent volume, it could only achieve maybe 50% of its potential.

 

Fine if you're some lounge act, not good if you're playing with a louder band. This is not the fault of either device, just shows the need for a small mixer to stage the right gain levels.

 

Any speculation as to why this is such a common occurrence? Is it the keyboards that have a lower than usual line level? Do CD players for example need a mixer inserted to get the full volume out of the speaker? Or perhaps the manufacturers don't want you to hear the amount of white noise that the input would have if there was nothing plugged into an input and you turned it all the way up?

Both -10 and +4 signals are referred to as "line level." I've seen -10 called "consumer" line level and +4 "pro" line level. I doubt different keyboard manufacturers have standardized on exactly what they output. Maybe the Nord's output is lower than others'.

 

When I started with my laptop rig I plugged my MacBook Pro's headphone output directly into my K8s, set them to line level, and got plenty of volume. Then I switched to an optical d-to-a box which had -10 outputs. I had to switch the Ks' to mic level and back the input down from max to about 12 o'clock. It worked great. Of course the noise floor was higher but the speaker was way louder! That's how it works, and it was a non-issue because at those high volumes you don't hear the noise floor when you're playing. It just boils down to knowing how to gain-stage. With the K's input set to mic level, you might need to back off on the output of your keyboard to avoid clipping the input stage, and you might need to back off on the K's input level to avoid frying your ears!

 

It was a curious problem with the original K series, where the rca inputs were SO hot you could use only a little bit of the volume range.

I have the schematics for the original Ks. First of all the mic-line switch is just a pad, it switches 20K resistors in & out of the circuit. On the line-only input, the combo jack goes through 20K resistors while the RCA inputs go through 10K resistors that might explain why the rca inputs are louder. Again, with proper gain staging you wouldn't have to "use only a little bit of the volume range" you'd just have to lower the volume of the signal going into the rca inputs.

[cphollis]

Chuck-is this a fair comparison of the K8.2s and the RCF TT08s since you don't have them at the same location to A & B? Are you comparing based on how you remembe howr the RCFs sound?

 

I think my K10.2s sound great, but may pickup the K8.2s. I agree the .2 series are a nice update.

 

As I've described before, when I'm in location #1 I play with the K8.2s. When I'm in location #2 I play with the RCFs. Same Nords setup for both, same material, etc. As an example, next week I'll be flying back to location #2 and reconfirming my impressions.

 

Consider it an A/B with a stretched time domain

 

Whether me sharing my initial impressions is "fair" or not is entirely subjective. Just like anything else on the internet, take it or leave it.

[RABid]

EV and QSC slugging it out. Yamaha playing the dark horse. JBL trying to take back some market share. It is a great time to be a keyboard player looking for amplification.

[AnotherScott]

The Nords have a lower output than most other brands of keyboard.

I've run into low outputs with Yamahas, too.

Even after an update that raised the MX level 6 dB, people still thought it was quiet... and that was by design. Interesting thread about it at

https://www.yamahasynth.com/forum/overall-volume-control

[Stokely]

Not exactly on-topic, as I use IEMs and wouldn't need this. However, our bass player/soundguy who owns our PA and I were talking about the PA yesterday. He's replacing our current subs and mains since they are 5 yrs old (selling them for a good price actually). The subs will now just have two 10" speakers per side, and the mains will be K10.2s.

 

It's incredible how small and powerful PA stuff has gotten (though to be sure our biggest challenge is being quiet, not loud!). Lights too...I love 20-30 minute loadins/outs as a band. The whole band is now direct except for acoustic drums. Yesterday was a kind of milestone: a sound company gig (ie, not our PA) and everyone went direct, putting themselves in the hands of the company and the monitors. Had about 10 minutes to soundcheck. It went great! I do prefer my IEMs though

[keyguy]

Very interesting, I bought a K10 because of a thread like this when they first came out, would it be worth it to upgrade to the smaller K8.2 factor now that it can be used as floor monitors, anybody else on this train?

 

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around an 8" speaker for keyboards. These wouldn't be used for bass. Hard to believe the 10" wouldn't sound better. Could the 8" be used as backup PA mains over 2 subs? Thanks!

[Reezekeys]

Believe it. Here's the EQ curve I used on my MOTU audio interface's main outs, which connect directly to my original K8s. This was for a gig where I did left-hand bass the entire gig; if there's a bass player I usually cut more low end. Here I have a 24db/octave rolloff at 69Hz.

 

The 10" gets you just a couple of Hz lower. The 8" has a wider angle of coverage but that means it doesn't throw as far. That's the trade-off. Could the 8s work as PA mains? I'm guessing yes, if the room isn't too big. I can only guess since I've never used mine as a PA.

 

[Ken Beaumont]

I have a couple of Turbosound iP1000 speakers. The bottom section in each speaker has 2, 8" long throw speakers. So my guess is the bass section can move as much air as a single 16 inch speaker. I have used these as mains and a single one as a monitor. They definitely can reproduce a good tight bass & kick as mains. I have had them outdoors and from experience they can replace any 15" two-way speaker and give better defined mid range too. If I were to really test them I would add an 18" sub to do the work below 100hz. So your K8.2 would probably do well in a smaller room and with a single sub fill most medium sized rooms nicely. The thing I like about my iP1000's are they have about 120 degrees of coverage and they don't drop off as quickly.

[keyguy]

Wow. Suppose I'll give them a go...

[cphollis]

Believe it. Here's the EQ curve I used on my MOTU audio interface's main outs, which connect directly to my original K8s. This was for a gig where I did left-hand bass the entire gig; if there's a bass player I usually cut more low end. Here I have a 24db/octave rolloff at 69Hz.

 

The 10" gets you just a couple of Hz lower. The 8" has a wider angle of coverage but that means it doesn't throw as far. That's the trade-off. Could the 8s work as PA mains? I'm guessing yes, if the room isn't too big. I can only guess since I've never used mine as a PA.

 

 

Thanks for sharing. The K8.2s go a bit further down than the original K8s. 50Hz? If you need anything lower, start looking for a sub.

 

The longer you've been doing something a certain way, the harder it is to learn a new way of doing things. The first generation of DSP-enabled 8" brought surprising low-end game. And this new generation goes even further.

 

You're welcome to lug around your big, heavy stuff -- no harm in that -- but the smaller stuff is now the bomb. My bigger stuff gets left home more and more. Some people insist on a real B3. Most of us get by with decent clones.

 

And when you're getting paid $100 for the night, why sweat the last 5%?

 

We use our legacy K8s all the time as FOH for a vocals-only PA, mostly in small venues. They are quite good in that role: small, powerful, wide dispersion, crisp sound, etc. They sound really, really good in that situation, no need for anything more.

 

Although I haven't tried my newer K8.2s in that situation, I would have every reason to believe they would be that much more impressive. I would have no hesitation running a whole band through them if I added a small filtering sub.

 

But I'm not gonna go there until our vocals improve