PORTABLE KEYBOARD AMPS

[CEB]

The best amplification most us guys have probably used was probably our old rigs 30 years ago ... before all this powered speaker nonsense. Big passive 3 way cabinets pushing real air. My old rig was killer. Carrying it would kill me now and I'm not a weight weenie. The power amp rack would be the deal breaker.

 

A GOOD 80 pound piece of amplification don't scare me. That is what dollies and wheels are for. We just work so much smarter these days. The IEMs are king now. They work really well.

[MathOfInsects]

Hi, I am doing some research on portable keyboard amps that you would use on a club or wedding style gig. What features would your ultimate amp have? And are your complaints about current amps out on the market? Thank you for your time!

 

This is an important clause in your question, and I think it bears saying that these are potentially two different types of applications. In a club, your amp is highly likely to be stage-ref only, with the main signal going through the house. In a wedding, you will far more likely (though not always, or necessarily) be pushing your own sound from amp to ear.

 

In neither case would there be much benefit (IMO) of tubes over solid-state, and in some cases (those who mostly play piano, for example), the opposite is true.

 

For clubs with FOH, I want to produce enough volume to be heard over the idiot's Marshall, without dominating the stage sound myself, and I want maximal portability. For weddings (or any amp-to-ear context, a phrase I just made up and have now shamelessly used it twice), you can usually sacrifice a bit of portability in favor of maximal integrity of sound out front. That's why so many use good powered PA speakers.

 

From the types of questions you're asking, it sounds like you might be developing or endorsing a keyboard amp. If that's the case, I might think about picking one of the two contexts--wedding-type context, or stage-ref context--and trying to make the best option for that usage. IMO they are two different applications, and no single amp will be "ultimate" for either.

 

And finally, on that front, I'd third the comments directing you to the SS3. It's doing a very good job of doing a very good job for both types of use.

[Stokely]

lol after powered speakers, amp threads always veer into IEMs. But no doubt they are a game-changer for those that use them. I never had a passive rig, but I had an old Peavey KB300 with a 15" speaker and horn that could knock people over if I pointed it at them. Of course I was too tough to put casters on it...

 

Now I roll into most gigs (where we use our own board) and just plug a feed into my IEM pack. Not having to carry an amp or speaker is just gravy though; mainly I love (and require) the 30db or so reduction in stage volume. It's kept me playing at this point in my life.

 

I'll have to check into this SS3 though, since there are gigs that I do bring my powered monitor(s) to. I have some real cheapies and they barely cut it. Fortunately those kinds of gigs are usually outdoors where sound isn't bouncing off walls at me...

[Reezekeys]

For weddings (or any amp-to-ear context, a phrase I just made up and have now shamelessly used it twice), you can usually sacrifice a bit of portability in favor of maximal integrity of sound out front. That's why so many use good powered PA speakers.

Not sure what your point is about sacrificing anything. I would suggest that a good powered PA speaker can be both portable (compared to some keyboard amps) and able to project great sound into a room. Case in point, my 2 K8s, at 27 lbs each. Not to mention that, at least in the NYC area, portability is very important when it comes to doing weddings. Ever have to load-in at the Pierre Hotel or any other swanky midtown Manhattan spot? This is why I'm one trip with my 2 K8s, 61-key controller & laptop. Keyboard "amps" are for bands with roadies, or those who like going to the car pound to retrieve their car after it's been towed!

[marczellm]

I use a Peavey KB2.

[CEB]

I'm not sure why the big differentiation between wedding gigs and club dates and other shows. Well in my history I have played some weddings as a jobber and provided background music in small s3ettings but with the most my bands we pull no punches for wedding dates. The club dates are the ones where I see the most opportunity for downsizing.

 

Weddings are expensive. This isn't because bands sit back and think oh a wedding, let's gouge them. Quite the opposite. A club date I will usually show up 3 hours before the downbeat, setup, check everything out, get something to eat or whatever. That gets us plenty of time in case something goes wrong. Production usually arrives 3-5 hours early depending on the rider.

 

Weddings suck. For an evening wedding party you arrive in the morning and setup. Everything ready to go before any guests arrive. And if there is one of those high dollar wedding planners trying to run the show that can be a serious pain in the ass (have the contract and rider available they may have been out of the loop). The party arrives mid to late afternoon. They have the entrance, the cake cutting, all the traditional stuff..... then the cater serves dinner. The Downbeat MAY happen at 8:00 PM. maybe. When they hire us they are hiring us for an all day job. Good Production guys are smart. They know the score. Most of them hate weddings. They even have to put on a nice shirt sometimes. Production cost are high because they have to setup in the morning and can't leave until the party is over.

 

These people hire us because the couple has seen us. They know what we are or they wouldn't have hired us so by golly we give'em what they paid for because Lord knows they are paying for it.

 

Club gigs we will have a greater chance on being limited on space. I know if I play metro St Louis my rig needs to be able to get transferred in one single trip. Because if you can't do it in one trip you will get ripped off unless you have guards at the vehicle... seriously. The thieves are notorious in the Lou. Especially in the club areas. I would rather play Chicago. And parking can be such a pain in the keister in downtown club gigs.

 

This may be just a smaller city Midwest thing. Weddings are usually really nice ballroom situations.

[Raymb1]

I've had mine for 22 months now and couldn't be more pleased with the SSV3. When I need more bass I just use a small mixer to boost the bass. I play small to medium venues and have no need for earth-shaking bass!

[Bill Spencer]

1) It's got be Stereo.

2) It's got to be stereo.

3) It must be stereo.

4) see #s 1-3.

5) extremely Hi-Fi.

6) 50 lb. max

7) a great feature would be scaleable. i.e. a small main unit with an 'expander' for larger gigs. This is what many of us are doing with an SS3 and a sub or small bass amp.

 

I've often thought about a scaleable stereo rig. Main cabinet would be three way, with stereo amp, and could be used alone (mono) for small gigs. The second, smaller cabinet would just be a 2 way, then the LF driver in the main box would act like a sub.

[Bill Spencer]

Thinking about this, a very modern amp would have extensive EQ and maybe FX with iOS/Android control (bluetooth?). We Keyboard players can't easily walk over to the amp to adjust during a gig. Very few physical controls would be needed in this design.

[AnotherScott]

I'm one trip with my 2 K8s, 61-key controller & laptop.

What about a keyboard stand?

[Reezekeys]

I have the smallest single-brace x-stand OnStage makes. Goes on my folding Remin hand truck with everything else except the keyboard, which I carry with my other hand.

[AnotherScott]

I have the smallest single-brace x-stand OnStage makes. Goes on my folding Remin hand truck with everything else except the keyboard, which I carry with my other hand.

Ah, a handtruck, that's cheating. ;-) Which model did you get?

[Bill Spencer]

I'm not sure why the big differentiation between wedding gigs and club dates and other shows. Well in my history I have played some weddings as a jobber and provided background music in small s3ettings but with the most my bands we pull no punches for wedding dates. The club dates are the ones where I see the most opportunity for downsizing.

 

Weddings are expensive. This isn't because bands sit back and think oh a wedding, let's gouge them. Quite the opposite. A club date I will usually show up 3 hours before the downbeat, setup, check everything out, get something to eat or whatever. That gets us plenty of time in case something goes wrong. Production usually arrives 3-5 hours early depending on the rider.

 

Weddings suck. For an evening wedding party you arrive in the morning and setup. Everything ready to go before any guests arrive. And if there is one of those high dollar wedding planners trying to run the show that can be a serious pain in the ass (have the contract and rider available they may have been out of the loop). The party arrives mid to late afternoon. They have the entrance, the cake cutting, all the traditional stuff..... then the cater serves dinner. The Downbeat MAY happen at 8:00 PM. maybe. When they hire us they are hiring us for an all day job. Good Production guys are smart. They know the score. Most of them hate weddings. They even have to put on a nice shirt sometimes. Production cost are high because they have to setup in the morning and can't leave until the party is over.

 

These people hire us because the couple has seen us. They know what we are or they wouldn't have hired us so by golly we give'em what they paid for because Lord knows they are paying for it.

 

Club gigs we will have a greater chance on being limited on space. I know if I play metro St Louis my rig needs to be able to get transferred in one single trip. Because if you can't do it in one trip you will get ripped off unless you have guards at the vehicle... seriously. The thieves are notorious in the Lou. Especially in the club areas. I would rather play Chicago. And parking can be such a pain in the keister in downtown club gigs.

 

This may be just a smaller city Midwest thing. Weddings are usually really nice ballroom situations.

 

At the risk of veering OT, this is very interesting, because it's so different from my experience. I'm not sure what size your events are, but for the gigs I've been doing for the last 25 years, very few require that early a setup. Weddings and corporate gigs (what we call "casuals', and I do probably minimum 50 a year), I arrive 1 hour before the downbeat, set up, then we play. No need for sound check, we do this so often. Club gigs are the same, just for a third the pay. I often (not as often as I used to) have a "double- or (even more rarely lately) "triple-, header", and sometimes have to arrive and set up in a half hour.

 

The casuals are for anywhere from 50 to 1500 guests, usually around 200. Clubs are small, may or may not have house PA. Try not to do those very often.

 

Having done casuals in downtown San Francisco for so long, I have a strict "one trip" rig, so I usually find parking first, then just load everything on my dolly and push it to the venue. Who has time to park, make multiple trips in, leaving your car vulnerable, then go park and come back? I don't skimp on gear, either. Always two keyboards, stereo amplification, rack modules, various stands, etc. I can even get all this PLUS a second small stereo PA in one trip. Just takes planning and the right dolly. Everything stays in the truck except when set up at a gig.

 

Here's a pic of that, from a few years back. Now more compact, 'cause I use an SS3. This will fit in most elevators. ONE TRIP.

http://i68.tinypic.com/2rpz0wl.jpg

[Al Quinn]

I agree with the one-trip requirement for wedding gigs. This is the only way. I did a lot of these gigs (2,000+) in the 80's and 90's, which included the tough load-ins in Manhattan mentioned previously. Also worth mentioning is that for many wedding gigs you setup/play for the ceremony, move to another room for the cocktail hour, and then move to another room for the reception. And, sometimes stairs are involved. Elevators aren't always available because guests are using them. Each move has to be done quickly and with minimal physical strain. It really is a different kind of gig with it's own gear requirements.

[AnotherScott]

Nice dolly setup. What size is the beda on that dolly? How do you secure everything, bungees? I'd still be concerned about steps. Have you ever calculated the weight of that load? Looks kinda heavy (which matters for things like picking half of it up to get over the curb that it's next to, or pushing/pulling it up a hill). Since you're doing the keyboard rig and the PA there, what seems missing is monitors. Are people using in-ears?

[16251]

I agree with the one-trip requirement for wedding gigs. This is the only way. I did a lot of these gigs (2,000+) in the 80's and 90's, which included the tough load-ins in Manhattan mentioned previously. Also worth mentioning is that for many wedding gigs you setup/play for the ceremony, move to another room for the cocktail hour, and then move to another room for the reception. And, sometimes stairs are involved. Elevators aren't always available because guests are using them. Each move has to be done quickly and with minimal physical strain. It really is a different kind of gig with it's own gear requirements.

 

Hi Al, thanks for the visuals. I was just starting to forgot about all those weddings and moves - lol. Seriously, if I had to play those NYC weddings, I probably wouldn't of kept doing it for over 25 years. I traveled around New England. Boston hotels and universities, etc. were tolerable. Parking was sometimes bad. You probably got valeted a lot.

 

Back to thread, one trip IS the only way. I broke off a wheel once on my Rock & Roll; that was not fun.

[Reezekeys]

Here's a pic of that, from a few years back. Now more compact, 'cause I use an SS3. This will fit in most elevators. ONE TRIP.

How does that go up a flight of stairs?! I hope you had your Wheaties on your gigging days!

[Tusker]

Hi, I am doing some research on portable keyboard amps that you would use on a club or wedding style gig. What features would your ultimate amp have? And are your complaints about current amps out on the market? Thank you for your time!

 

Hi Derek,

 

Club or wedding can encompass a range of contexts as some have mentioned. I should think many players maintain a choice of amplification. I use a combination of two K8s and a K12 in different stereo/mono combinations depending on FOH/Room etc. If I were to upgrade these, I would hope for roughly the same inputs/driver/power configuration as the K8s with a more rigid (wooden?) build. However, most of the time, it's the room that is the limitation.

 

No tubes needed. Adequate character can be built with sound-design tools these days. For me, the ideal is a small, flat-sounding speaker with high SPL.

[Bill Spencer]

Probably at least 500 pounds. Can't do stairs with this but 99% of places have handicap access therefore I will always take the long way around to use the ramps. It's not too heavy to lift one end at a time up over a curb.

 

I don't use monitors for Gigs like this. With proper EQ and a proper speaker placement I am always able to put the speakers behind the band either high on poles or on the ground. if a particular singer just has to have a monitor they bring their own. This only works for smaller type gigs. This particular gig was an outdoor jazz gig.

 

I don't remember the brand of the dolly but it weighs about 60 pounds itself. One of these days I'm going to get around to replacing it with a more modern magnesium one.

[cphollis]

I've never done a wedding gig. And, after reading all these stories, I may never do one.

[El Lobo]

I would suggest that a good powered PA speaker can be both portable (compared to some keyboard amps) and able to project great sound into a room. Case in point, my 2 K8s, at 27 lbs each.

Me 2. 2 QSC K8's. Portability, hi-fi stereo, wide dispersion, power, volume.

[Jazzmammal]

The best amplification most us guys have probably used was probably our old rigs 30 years ago ... before all this powered speaker nonsense. Big passive 3 way cabinets pushing real air. My old rig was killer. Carrying it would kill me now and I'm not a weight weenie. The power amp rack would be the deal breaker.

 

This. I've still got it but haven't used it in 7 years. It was for a big outdoor wedding where for whatever reason the PA was for vocals only. The rig is the old classic JBL horn that they used to sell by itself in a nice little cabinet that has a built in crossover along with a JBL K145 15" bass driver in a classic Altec designed 4 cubic foot bass cabinet on wheels. That bass cab has to weigh 60 pounds by itself. The amp rack has another old school 40 pound 600W Peavey power amp and mixer. This rig is half of a JBL PA system from the late 70's that we all used. I put this together somewhere around 1985 or so and used it for years before I got older and did the usual downsizing we all talk about. I still have it and will never use it again. Sigh.

 

But for clean sound and power? The best I've ever had.

 

As far as current stage amps check out Barbetta. Not cheap but very good. They have a built in mixer which is nice. A Barbetta SE41c is what I used for maybe 5 years until I wanted to go stereo and went with a pair of EV Sxa 100's. Now it's the SS v.3.

 

Here's the current SE41c. Looks the same as mine except that Tony updated the tweeter. It weighs just under 40 pounds.

 

http://www.proaudiosolutions.com/Barbetta-SE-41C-Keyboard-Amp-p/SE41C.htm?gclid=CjwKEAjwnebABRCjpvr13dHL8DsSJABB-ILJ-6bR29flH0ZF4hm8bfIvKEpNq-UBx6ImHEW2O8FwehoCcPzw_wcB

 

Bob

[Bill Spencer]

I would suggest that a good powered PA speaker can be both portable (compared to some keyboard amps) and able to project great sound into a room. Case in point, my 2 K8s, at 27 lbs each.

Me 2. 2 QSC K8's. Portability, hi-fi stereo, wide dispersion, power, volume.

 

Me 3. I love my 2 K8 rig. Now I use a spacestation 99% of the time.

[Reezekeys]

I use a combination of two K8s and a K12 in different stereo/mono combinations depending on FOH/Room etc. If I were to upgrade these, I would hope for roughly the same inputs/driver/power configuration as the K8s with a more rigid (wooden?) build.

I'm a little curious about your line of thought here. What about the K8s' build makes you want something "more rigid"?

 

Have you seen the recent thread here quoting Jay Mitchell of Fractal Audio?:

 

Myth 2: Wood Cabinet Is Better Than Plastic

I have been told this by every speaker person I have ever met (except Jay). I believed it because all the good sounding cabinets I have owned and/or tested have been made of wood. Well, the K10 has a plastic cabinet and with Jays adjustments I like it better than my wooden Turbosounds.

 

Apparently the issue isn't that a wood cabinet makes for the best speaker; it's that the best speakers happen to have cabinets made of wood. Plastic cabinets have mostly been used in cheaper, poorly designed, price point targeted products. Jay says that a properly designed plastic cabinet can perform equally as well as its wooden counterpart.

 

 

[DanL]

I prefer a pair of 10" powered monitors for my keys. If there are a couple inputs that is good so I can bring just 1 to a rehearsal and still plug in 2 boards. Live I use a mixer and run stereo.

[CEB]

I like wood from a builder point of view. I built speakers in the 80s. Wood is easy work with and to prototype. As a result you know how the end product will really respond. Cabinet makers are wood workers at heart. I think that is where a lot of this preference for wood cabinetry from speaker craftsmen comes from. I don't really know what all goes into setting up injection molding to do a one off prototype plastic cabinet. It sounds like it might be a lot of expense and effort.

 

My original reservations about plastic cabinets when I first started using them was what if there was any serious damage. How do you repair a plastic cabinet.... but I worry too much. Never had any problems involving a cracked cabinet.

[dongna]

Apparently the issue isn't that a wood cabinet makes for the best speaker; it's that the best speakers happen to have cabinets made of wood. Plastic cabinets have mostly been used in cheaper, poorly designed, price point targeted products. Jay says that a properly designed plastic cabinet can perform equally as well as its wooden counterpart.

Something about this doesn't quite ring true to me. I guess if we take as a given that a) plastic is lighter than wood and b) plastic is cheaper than wood, it begs the question: why would makers of high quality cabinets still use wood unless it was for acoustic reasons?

[drawback]

See CEB's post above.

[Derek Sherinian]

A lot of great input, thank you everyone! For myself, I obviously run my B3 thru Leslies, and my Marshalls, but for synths, I go into a mixer, then DIs to the monitor man and FOH. I use stereo wedges, with 15" and horn - I have found that you need a 15" in order to feel the lows- it just doesn"t happen with a 12"......so the big question to me is, how do you get sufficient low end, clarity, and headroom in an amp that weighs less that 50lbs without using a 15" and horn?

 

[Bill Spencer]

As you may have surmised from the variety of answers there are many different types of gigs. I'm going to guess that the vast majority of us aren't doing gigs where there's room for a 15 and a horn, or for that matter a need for it. Most of us are looking for solutions for small gigs where we're schlepping our own gear.

 

Also most of us don't have separate amplification for specific instruments.