So many Bands playing with Seq in my area,!

[Ensenada Guide]

So many Bands in My area now play Seq and they sound like nintendo seq!. looks like people dont care

 

how are you dealing with it.

 

At the moment i dont play with a band,so what new skills are required?

[timwat]

Yeah, I'm seeing it too.

 

Last time I played the Gilroy Garlic Festival (long-running two-day festival at the southern tip of the SF Bay Area), we headlined the main stage. Sound guys told us we were the ONLY band that day that didn't use sequences, backing tracks or other props - and they were so happy to finally mix a band that was actually playing everything live in living color.

 

I think for most genres, it sucks, sucks and sucks. But I'm 55 and the boat has already left the dock. And there are some genres (hip hop, rap, etc.) where I understand it's an integral part of the sound.

 

My observation is that generally, audiences don't care. Not one single thin shred.

 

So far, I don't play in any project that uses sequences or backing tracks. Not sure how I'd respond if a band leader wanted to introduce them.

[RABid]

...

 

how are you dealing with it.

 

...

 

I became one of those people, back in the 1980's. First using a Sequential DrumTracks machine for songs by Prince and Herbie Handcock. Later using a DOS sequencer. Sequencing got MUCH easier when Windows 3.1 came out and I could use a mouse. ... Lots of dance music. Robotic was just fine.

[Stokely]

I also think it sucks ****s for live. It's all I do at home. In neither capacity am I a professional, so I would in no way cast judgement on people who feel they need to do it to keep up with the Joneses...I mean, if audiences expect a studio sound and a bunch of bands provide it via backing tracks...

 

But it sucks and personally I don't want to listen to it if I'm in the audience. Heck it even bothers me a bit with Peter Gabriel, who is more of a theatrical experience and where I know he has monster musicians and they are playing their asses off...I'd just prefer to hear them, and only them.

 

If my band told me to do it I'd just quit and find something else more fun to do.

[ABECK]

I just did a show and we covered Baba-ORiley. I used a backing track for the marimba repeat part that weaves throughout. That way, I could focus on 2 handed piano. Once the violin solo kicked in, I played the synth part live. I tried every which way to cover both parts live, and it wasnt working out. Hell, even the Who still use a backing track for that part, so I didnt feel too bad.

There is certainly a skill and technology component to coordinating backing tracks with a live band (especially if you have to deal with click tracks for the drummer and the like.

 

 

[CEB]

I've done it in spots. In general it is easy to play it live. If the part are right I will sequence them and that frees me up to do other stuff. Fancy by Iggy Azalea was one example. The sequence was a 4 bar bass line loop. It feed me to do adlib turntable and one shot sample shit and lay down some chord pads that the song doesn't have (Eb/C# or straight up C#m and C#m7)..... Sometimes the original recording it just a suggestion and I just do whatever I want.

 

I've actually done this more in what you now call classic rock.... Baba O'Riley, Sweet Dreams, Sirus, Kyrie etc... Its easier more repetitive structures the drone over and over and doesn't integrate with vocals. Generally in older rock it was one go around and you could kill the machine.

 

 

[Stokely]

^ I would like to add that diddly keys parts like in Baba-O'Riley and especially Eminence Front don't count to me Those are allowed lol

 

I don't know why those should be any different in my mind from a few noodly guitar parts on backing tracks, but the guitars would bug me. Maybe part of it is they were sequenced (in a sense) to begin with...but its' also just an irrational thing!

[hazerkeys]

HATE sequenced keys .. but i do admit, I did it for one song .. eminence front, by the who .. had to have the opening sequence flowing thru the song while I comped the electric piano part .. drummer had to listen very closely to keep in time ... other than that, no seq used

[CEB]

In the old days we didn't need sequencers per se. We knew how to do stuff like.... modulating the filter cutoff frequency with a low-frequency oscillator set to sample-and hold waveforms and we could press one key and get a whole bunch of notes. LOL Not really sure if this much different from a concept point of view .... I suppose it is because it isn't completely canned.

[MotiDave]

I've done it on two songs in my life, both when I was doing a Cars tribute

 

- "Drive": hard to replicate that song with 2 hands and no tracks. nobody else in the band plays keys and it has 5, 6, 7 layers all over the place. Even the minimum replication of the song needs 4-5 keys parts

 

- Moving In Stereo - I didn't backtrack but I sampled the the intro filter sweep sound and then loop it through the song. Technically i trigger it with a key so its not sequenced. And its not right as in the real song the sweep attack times vary at different points in the song, I don't vary it as I can't.

 

they had other songs from their latter catalog that needed more than 2 key tracks at a time. I just picked the two most important and we played live. I'd use 4, 5, 6 sounds in a song, but only would play what I could with two hands.

 

maybe thats why that band died lol!

[MotiDave]

oh, forgot - my 2c

 

a) a band that adds some fillint tracks that compliment and augment the main live playing - sure, go for it, make it sound great if you want.

 

b) a band that subs what should be live with backtracks - gtfo. I know two cover bands that completely bactrack the majority of the actual songs. the OG artists played it mostly live, one band is a keys-significant band with no keyboard player. I've seen the other band backtrack the drums, bass, and most of the keys. please, thats not even a concert - thats an ipod with a couple o'fools singing karaoke.

[WesG]

Looks like even The Cars used tracks for Drive...and have trouble locking in, too!

 

[video:youtube]

 

EDIT - no tracks, I just spotted someone else (Elliot?) playing keys, stage left. I just assumed it was all Gregg. I wonder what the lock-in issue was? I know it's hard playing slow-attack patches sometimes, maybe that's all it was.

[drohm]

When used right, it can complement the song/show. Some great bands have triggered sequences or samples (e.g., Rush, Genesis, Pink Floyd) and I would not question their talent or skills on instruments. There are times when having the band play to a click is also needed for the production. I have never done this, but I have seen bands that can do it right.

 

However, many bands using these techniques are just using them because they cannot play or using them as gimmicks. That just ruins the vibe and steals the energy. Not fun to watch or listen to, in my opinion.

[Devnor]

One of the biggest party bands in Dallas runs tracks and nobody cares. The musicians are great and their show is high energy. They are in demand and paid nicely.

[Daniel Heslop]

I think it is entirely an issue only for musicians. Audiences are so used to DJ's and lip synced performances that it really doesn't phase them.

They just care if it sounds good and they are entertained.

 

For me I did a new age things many years ago with a lot of sequncing going on and it gave me nightmares. Nothing really malfunctioned (aside from one keyboard over heating and generating a reverse cymbal sound. That keyboard was providing all percussion sounds...it was new age...I just turned it down.) but I would get so much anxiety worrying about things not going right it just wasn't worth it.

 

This weekend I'm doing a solo performance of two Kitaro pieces. I run occasional arpeggiator in one, and a subtle drum track in both, but I could go with out if need be.

I am kind of proud of how I am managing to do so many parts live, but I'm pretty sure the audience won't care in the least. They will like it or not, and how much I do versus a machine won't matter one iota for them.

 

I have taught student rock bands Baba O'Riley. I ran a combination of arpeggiator and the kid playing live. It meant one hand piano chords though.

[aronnelson]

The audiences don't seem to care now. Chainsmokers can sell out here without any of their lead singers or playing any instruments. There are world "debuts" of songs - without the lead singer or instruments - they don't care.

 

That being said, in the early days, we had a PC running sequences too - I guess even back then I was trying to sound "like the record".

 

I never use sequences now - but it's mostly because the keyboards are too hard to sequence on - or I am not interested I guess.

[ElmerJFudd]

I was doubling on keys and guitar back in 199x when we decided to sequence my key parts on guitar heavy tunes. The sequencer was a Roland MC-50mkII which had a click out I sent to the drummer. Allowed us to do a lot of material we'd otherwise have skipped as a trio with lead singer. In some ways it was cool as hell. For spontaneity and improv, or ability to play more up tempo or pull it back for mood was crap. These days if your covering EDM influenced pop - who cares - the stuff was born in a computer anyway. May as well just play the released recording and change your name to DJ _______.

[Mighty Ferguson]

I'm another doing it only on certain songs where there are too many keyboard parts to cover with two hands. I think we only do it on 3 out of 40+ currently in rotation.

[MotiDave]

Looks like even The Cars used tracks for Drive...and have trouble locking in, too!

 

[video:youtube]

 

EDIT - no tracks, I just spotted someone else (Elliot?) playing keys, stage left. I just assumed it was all Gregg. I wonder what the lock-in issue was? I know it's hard playing slow-attack patches sometimes, maybe that's all it was.

 

I saw them live on the Heartbeat City tour wayyy back ('84?). One, they were an incredibly uninteresting live band, they didn't seem to have fun or like each other. No show, they fairly perfectly emulated their studio tracks which gave the feeling you were hearing their CD while watching them stand there.

 

Two, on Drive - Greg, Ric and Elliot all played keys. Prob had some backtracks on top of it, but not that much. They used some tracks on a few songs, but most of Greg's keys work could be done with 2 hands on 90% of their hits. Only HB City and later work had extensive arps, sequencing or other heavy production. Can play alot of his cool work with one finger, in fact. Cars keys are not hard, just very tasty.

[MurMan]

This is an unpleasant thought that's not going to be popular on KC: Other than the skill level required, is there really much difference among a keyboard player triggering samples of a note, a keyboard player triggering a sequence, or a DJ triggering a sequence?

 

Virtually everyone here would say that there's a huge difference. But, based on audience response, the depressing answer is "probably not".

 

I think it's useful to compare this trend in music to how other art forms survived advances in technology. Here's a quote from an article in Art Times Journal

 

"Now consider the response of theater to the invention of cinema. Confronted with a mechanical means of presenting a time-based experience of reality in great detail and with enormous spectacular power, what did theater do? Despite struggles and efforts to find its own nature, theater fundamental decided to compete with cinema on cinema's own grounds, and lost, badly."

 

Music can be described as a time-based experience of sounds. It's becoming more and more "mechanical".

 

Like most other human performance arts, cinema is not immune to progress. We're now in the early stages of cinema actors being replaced by CGI. Live performance (when filming) is being replaced by sequences developed by CGI teams.

 

Like it or not, the world is changing.

[GovernorSilver]

Yes, there are several bands in my area that use sequencers, but that is because they're synth pop bands. They all seem to be influenced by Kraftwerk, Suicide, New Order, etc. and maybe some newer synth pop acts like Zola Jesus, Blond Redhead, or The Knife/Fever Ray.

 

I like using sequencers to explore musical ideas, but not as replacements for manually playing traditional instruments. For example, I came up with a sequence that sounds like a robot trying to play music of the Andes, just by messing with the note length (32nd note triplets) and LFO modulation of the envelope. I'm puzzling out a percussion part to go with it - I might give up and just overdub my Suzuki Andes on top of the sequence.

[Jazzmammal]

About five years ago when my good friend Eddie who was a very well schooled player passed, I got a call from a guy I met at his memorial service. He's about 60 and a very good classic R&B soul singer who did all the JB, Wilson Picket, Blues Brothers tunes back in the day.

 

He told me Eddie did a bunch of sequences for him as well as playing keys and was looking for a replacement keys player. He sent me his song list to check out.

 

I spent most of a weekend finding every one of them on YT and giving them a good listen and it was painful. Really painful. Out of 60 or so songs only 5 or 6 were classic stuff I was familiar with. The rest was modern R&B, hip hop and other styles that I never heard before and thought really sucked. You guys know what I mean, all that crap one chord bs with some weird rhythm break in the middle. I called him about it and he said this is what he has to do to get gigs and he works every weekend with some mid week parties thrown in. It would have been a lot of steady gigs for me if I wanted it.

 

First time in my performing life I turned down something like this. I'm not doing this for a living and I can afford to be somewhat picky but man, this goes against my long time instincts. I never turned down gigs but I just couldn't deal with that song list.

 

Bob

[NewImprov]

I'm seeing more and more of it on shows and festivals I run sound at. Did a theater show lately of 3 indie pop/R&B bands, all used tracks. For the first 2 bands, it might as well have been just the singer performing to a CD because there was so little actual input from the other players on the stage, it felt like they were there to look like a band. The drummer in the 2nd band was barely tapping his kit, while the track had big booming programmed drums.

 

The last act was a soul singer from Brooklyn, and he had a great band, a guitarist, drummer, and keyboardist who played LH bass. All killer players. They did play to tracks, but they were good enough to transcend them. A lot of the tunes would play through the structure with the tracks, then the track would stop and the band would jam out unconstrained, these were my favorite parts of the show. The artist told me that he usually plays with a much larger band live, but this was his first west coast tour and the $$ demanded that he bring a smaller band, and also that his latest album was leaning more in an electronic direction, so people kind of expected the tracks. It was a good show, but I suspect it would have been terrific to see the full band with no tracks.

[ElmerJFudd]

I think this stuff is just cyclical. After the heavily electronic sounding 80s with synths and drum machines everywhere we went through an era where we were back to guitar driven material, and then there was interest again in acoustic piano and electro-mechanical rhodes, wurly's, and B3 over Juno 106, DX7, D50, etc. Most recently there's been a synth renaissance - and a lot of these "synths" are VSTs, in the box. So of course there's a trend for sequencing and 120BPM, etc. Even in the less keyboard heavy genre's, ProTools, beat detective, loop based stuff, quantize audio etc. has made the sequenced sound - the unflinching computer perfect tempo and rhythms the norm. But that's not to say there isn't always musicians and audiences that simply enjoy artists that just sit at a piano or pick up a guitar or a sax or whatever instrument and just do it.

[Ensenada Guide]

maybe its a good time , to brush up on my seq,trumpet,voice,guitar,acordion skills

[newkeys]

What I find impressive is a solo performer who will create the backing tracks on the fly with a looper.

 

Only one performer, but you get the multiple layers of guitar, percussion, voices or whatever that make the arrangement richer. Baked fresh each time, with the possiblity of changing the parts slightly if the mood strikes.

 

It restores that element of risk -- like the musician is walking on the high wire and might fall off.

 

The audience might not care but I think it adds an edge to the performance. And with certain loopers you absolutely cannot fake it, because there's no permanent memory. Have to write each set of loops over the previous one.

 

 

[stillplaying]

 

My observation is that generally, audiences don't care. Not one single thin shred.

 

.

 

Agreed - if it's pop music and there's a charismatic vocalist that's keeping them entertained - most seem happy enough.

 

There seems to be a shortage of keyboard players - maybe bands have had to learn to cope without one?

 

My other theory is that folk don't hear live bands very often - it's very different to the radio friendly recordings they listen to. It's easier to recreate that with a backing track (or a partial backing track) and a live vocalist. Some of the backing tracks I've heard performers use have backing vocals on them. I don't just mean in a pub, I mean established artists on tour.

 

Btw I took my young daughter to hear One Direction on their last tour. Live band on stage, drums, bass, guitar and keys. It sounded and felt like any rock gig I've been to - they did a great job.

 

 

[DanL]

At the 80's show I just did on Friday, I sequenced Sweet Dreams at home and hit play at the show. I played a piano part in 1 of the breakdowns, and the classic solo line. The crowd loved it and the band was blown away when I broke it out at rehearsal.

 

I performed each part myself, no downloading of premade midi files or anything like that.

 

I use 1 sequence in my Floyd band- On the Run. I have a 2 bar loop of the notes and a sound effect sample. I trigger the sound effect at the end of Time, hit start on the sequence, and go nuts with the filter cutoff and filter attack in real time.

 

I expect as things evolve with the Floyd band I will be doing some additional sequences. One of the things they want to do is the wall, and The Trial has a lot of orchestral parts that might need to be sequenced. I haven't really dissected that stuff yet to know for sure- if I can do it live, I surely will.

[MurMan]

Btw I took my young daughter to hear One Direction on their last tour.

Jon Shone recently did a four part video on how he sets up his Kronos on tour.

 

[video:youtube]

[Threadslayer]

Btw I took my young daughter to hear One Direction on their last tour.

Jon Shone recently did a four part video on how he sets up his Kronos on tour.

 

[video:youtube]

Ever notice that you never see These two together? Inquiring minds want to know...