Motion Sound KP500-SN - Third Time's a Charm?

[Mitch Towne]

Cavet: I am not an endorsing artist for Motion Sound so you don't need to apply any endorsing artist trigonometry to my review in order to get a cumulative honesty score.

 

As the Space Station thread barrels towards 200 pages, with talk of external subs and "bloom," I decided, after trying the SS and finding it to be woefully underpowered for anything other than a cocktail gig, to go to the Motion Sound well for a third time.

 

Some background: I tried out one of the early models of the KP500-sn when they were first released a few years ago. I found it harsh and unappealing. The cooling fan was really loud. I returned it. Then, a couple years later, I heard about design improvements and purchased another one. This was much better. The sound was warmer and the fan was much quieter. I used it for a couple years, but reached to a place in my gigging life where I was doing so many organ gigs with a Leslie and not playing much EP or synth that I decided to sell it (probably because I was looking to fund the purchase of another organ or Leslie or some such thing).

 

In the last year, I have been gigging more and more with EPs and other sounds that would greatly benefit from a stereo field. At one point in my career, I lugged a couple QSC K12s to gigs, but screw that. That takes forever to hook up and takes up a huge stage footprint. So, I had been using one EV speaker, but, as I said, that is limiting sound wise. No creamy stereo tremolo on the Rhodes patches. No swirly Leslie effects.

 

So, after seeing if the guy I sold my KP500-sn to wanted to sell it back (he didn't), I bit the bullet and bought a new one from Sweetwater.

 

I don't regret it at all. If you search the Keyboard Mag forum, you will probably find my old review of the KP500. Pretty much everything I was happy about then, I am happy about now as well.

 

I do not know why this amp isn't considered the gold standard for keyboard amplification. Very few people seem to talk about it or use it and there is nothing like it from any other company. It is easily the loudest, cleanest keyboard amp on the market. You will no longer lose the stage volume wars with guitarists. But, not only that, the stereo field is FANTASTIC! The angled speakers offer a true stereo separation and give your sounds the wide presence that you usually only hear when you have your stuff hooked up to your home studio set up. And the bass response is outstanding. Tight and clean. No fuzzing out. The stereo effect can be expanded (more on that later) and there is a separate "low bass" control thatwellyou can guess the rest.

 

Sowhy did I sell it in the first place, other than funding something else? I was never happy with how it replicated the Leslie simulation in the Mojo, and since I was doing mostly organ gigs, it was just more satisfying to haul my 147. One thing about the KP500 is that, if the stereo expand is turned up to far, the amp can sound harsh. The midway point is just about perfect and gives you a nice wide stereo field. I have spent some time dialing in the Mojo rotary simulation, as well as the Ventilator II and they both sound great. As I wrote in another post, the Lester K sounds great with the KP500 also, and gives a more "Leslie in the room" feel than the other two, which produce more of a mic'ed Leslie sound.

 

I have also found that dialing back the midrange makes the KP500 a little less "boomy," so experimentation with the settings is encouraged.

 

The amp is about 55 lbs, so stairs might be a drag, but it is still better than having to make multiple trips with K12s or other PA speakers. I got a great, inexpensive cover from LeCover. My old one had a Studio Slips cover and I like the LeCover one better. It holds it's shape and goes on easier.

 

In conclusion, to reiterate what I said above, the KP500-sn stands alone in the keyboard combo amp world. At $1,299 new from Sweetwater (the only retailer I could find), it isn't cheap, but it comes in as less expensive than a pair of K12s.

[Doerfler]

how is the cooling fan volume? Loud, barely heard? I don't mid the sound of tube amps buzzing but I can't stand fan noise coming from the back of an amp. I'm shallow that way.

[Mitch Towne]

Dave,

 

You can only hear it in a quiet room when you are playing alone. I never hear it in any other context.

[Sam Mullins]

I have had a KP200s for over a decade and like it a lot. I know I could get somewhat better sound with powered PA speakers. But then I would have to carry a small mixer...and then it's just more setup hassle.

 

I also considered upgrading to the KP500SN, but it doesn't have the click input and control feature from the KP200S...which I use to take a monitor feed, saving me the trouble of schlepping a monitor.

[Delaware Dave]

The one advantage (for me) of the keyboard amp is the built in mixer and EQ controls that a powered monitor doesn't have that forces you into using a mixer, another piece of gear that needs to be setup.

[Doerfler]

Dave,

 

You can only hear it in a quiet room when you are playing alone. I never hear it in any other context.

 

Thanks MItch. I had this same issue with my Leslie 2121's. For better or worse, most of the time I am playing alone in a quiet room.

[mate stubb]

How about the tone for finicky acoustic pianos, like the Nord. Boxy at all?

[zaj58]

I have been saying the same thing about the MS. Its the best keyboard amp currently available. I owm this amp the Spacestation and 2 QSC K 10's....the MS comes to 90% of my gigs...

[Legatoboy]

I like mine a lot because of the convenience and the sound but I know there are powered speakers that do sound better and are more detailed at least for DP...

 

The weight also, it's a bit heavy!

But it really is a good package for a stereo rig if you can handle the weight...

[TomKittel]

 

As the Space Station thread barrels towards 200 pages..... I decided, after trying the SS and finding it to be woefully underpowered for anything other than a cocktail gig...

 

 

I do not agree with this finding. The SSV3 is everything but underpowered. I am using mine in a loud classic rock band. The SSV3 sits next to the guitar player's Marshall 4x12" cabinet. My band mates regularly ask me to turn down the volume! The SSV3 sound is loud and clear and I don't have to use a sub at all. My keys are organ, piano/Rhodes and synth through a tiny Mackie 402VLZ velcroed to the SSV3. Most of the time the SSV3 volume knob is at about 50 percent. Even in the heat of the battle I never turn the SSV3 voume up more than 70 percent.

 

JMTC

[BigJPatton]

Weight is a big concern, at close to 60 lbs it's a beast, and it's a big box to move around, I'd rather carry two small 10's.

 

And stereo out of a single point has always been something I question, maybe because I don't even really care for the stereo effect, mono is fine for me, but I also feel nobody outside of the near field is hearing it anyway so better off in mono for most rooms.

[eric]

I have one of these that is used almost exclusively as my practice monitor in the home music room (I run my CP-70B, S-90, various Nords, etc. through it). Since I use IEMs for my live shows, the only time I take out the Motion Sound is if I have a pick-up gig where IEMs aren't easily supported.

 

I've been very happy with the Motion Sound. I also have several other MS products and they have served me well. I used to keep in touch with the MS folks at NAMM, but then they closed up shop for a bit. I have lost track of things, but I believe they are back open.

[Mitch Towne]

By the way, it comes with casters. That makes a big difference in how hard or easy it is to move.

 

The stereo field is very real with the MS because of the angled speakers and the stereo spread feature.

 

Regarding the SS volume, I'm glad it's working for you but, after having and testing one, I can't imagine ever feeling like the SS would be loud enough even for medium volume gigs. It breaks up at about 3/4 volume and the tweeter makes a very harsh "ping" when dealing with the third percussion on clone.

[Dave Ferris]

I had the KP200 from when it first came out till maybe around 2011.

 

It was heavily used on casuals and I made a lot of dough with it. My keyboards at the time were the Yamaha S90, P120 & CP300. Couldn't beat the convenience factor (main reason I held onto to it so long) and I concur, the Le Cover was the perfect amp cover.

 

However, I always hated the sound for Ac. piano from Day 1. It was not warm, always harsh to the point of nails on chalkboard for my ears. It sounded nowhere near as good as the EV SXA360s I was using at that time. But again and obviously, the schlep and setup factor could not compare. The MS KP200 saw most of my gigs where I wanted to get in and out as quickly as possible. Specifically if loud was more important then tone. If I had even a $50 jazz gig , I always brought the EVs. Funny how that works- gigs that paid little or no dough - you make things harder for yourself.

 

I went to great lengths to audition the KP-500 - many emails and phone calls, even tried tracking them down at NAMM. All to no avail. I guess they were out of the biz for awhile and have resurfaced again. But by that time I really had lost interest.

 

Basically I can't imagine it sounding better then what I use now but I'd be curious to hear it, just to know for sure.

 

And I can see organ/ EP players or more the general band/rock keyboardist type being perfectly happy with it then someone like me.

[vanderSchoot]

Here a happy KP500SN user,......I can only echo what Mitch and others have said in this topic. Still one of the best purchases I made in the last decade.

I use a lot of layers and plits that needs air to breath......going into mono makes my sounds suffer severely.

As a stereo monitor and stage amp it is all I'd wished for and plenty of volume to use it for small-medium sized gigs without a PA.

 

I do hope that i can purchase any repair parts in the future when needed ..........

[hardware]

I got the SSv3 for stage monitoring, not my own personal mix.

It's basically a long throw side fill for others.

I like my 24 way IEM's for a personal mix, plus it's great sounding hearing protection.

 

But SVT Ampeg and Marshall stacks are frightened by the power of the SSv3.

Runs at noon otherwise the Rock Gods and their stacks percieve it as a micro aggression into their safe spaces, and that could be an emotional trigger.

 

I suppose if you don't use a PA with an FOH, a louder rig is a necessity.

Love not carrying around Barbettas or QSC K Series cabs.

[Al Quinn]

As the Space Station thread barrels towards 200 pages..... I decided, after trying the SS and finding it to be woefully underpowered for anything other than a cocktail gig...

 

I do not agree with this finding. The SSV3 is everything but underpowered. I am using mine in a loud classic rock band. The SSV3 sits next to the guitar player's Marshall 4x12" cabinet. My band mates regularly ask me to turn down the volume! The SSV3 sound is loud and clear and I don't have to use a sub at all. My keys are organ, piano/Rhodes and synth through a tiny Mackie 402VLZ velcroed to the SSV3. Most of the time the SSV3 volume knob is at about 50 percent. Even in the heat of the battle I never turn the SSV3 voume up more than 70 percent.

 

JMTC

 

+1 I played a blues festival recently with a band that was loud at times and never had a problem hearing myself using the SS as a stage monitor. Had the volume a little past noon. The SS did not distort at all.

 

I played a festival last year that had a backline MS amp. The amp sounded very good but it's too heavy to be a contender for me.

 

[Mitch Towne]

Before this turns into another Space Station thread, let me say this: I tried the SS and there was no way that amp was going to cut it in a jazz organ trio setting where I was playing LH bass. I even tried it with a sub. It breaks up way too easily and, as I said earlier, can't handle the high frequencies of the 3rd percussion.

 

The Motion Sound is plenty loud and the stereo spread makes the sound come alive. It may be heavier, but you get more power with the weight. It's worth it to me to have an amp that I know is going to cut the mustard no matter where I put it on stage.

[cphollis]

Jeez, I've bought almost every other amp out there, maybe I should give it a try via the Sweetwater special

 

I still own the Motion Sound KBR-3D. No slouch, but what a pain to lug and situate on stage, especially smaller gigs.

 

I've had minor growing pains with the CPS SS V.3, but to be honest, volume has never been one of them. If anything, I tend to play it too hot and dominate the other musos from the audience perspective (although you can't tell when you're close to it). Then again, I'm not playing a organ jazz trio gig with bumpin' bass.

 

When it's time to bring out the bigger toys, the SS V.3 stays home, and I bring a pair of self-powered PA units. Maybe the Motion Sound splits the difference between when a SS V.3 won't cut it, and bringing your own PA system to a gig.

 

I guess if you're into maximal stereo power in single cab with good near-field monitoring, it's a strong play. 58 pounds in a large form-factor might not seem like a big deal on paper, but I would think twice about the luggability factor.

 

You bring up some good points worth considering. I'd still like to hear from others -- how about those APs at volume?

[hardware]

SSv3 definately not good for pushing bass.

When I gigged lounges I used an Oberheim clone with a Pro3 t and a pair of Barbetta Sona Cabs.

Demod the KBR3D and loved it.

Much better spread.

Motion Sound always had great support too.

Nothing beats a seperate bass amp though.

 

I need to check out the KP500 as I can never go back to 2 x cabinet solutions like the Barbettas or QSC K12s.

KBR3D was first to the dance.

KP500 must be even more mature.

 

[Mitch Towne]

KBR3D was first to the dance.

KP500 must be even more mature.

 

Make sure to note that there is nothing rotating in the KP500. It is just a stereo amp, unlike the KBR3D that has a rotating horn.

[Al Quinn]

When I used that MS amp the AP's sounded just OK. Since I was playing a keyboard I wasn't familiar with either I wasn't sure if the mediocre sound was due to the MS amp, the keyboard which was a Kurzweil PC3, or both.

[Mitch Towne]

I am one of those weirdos who likes the Nord piano sounds. I really got the MS500 and the Nord Piano dialed in nicely at one point for jazz gigs.

[16251]

I am one of those weirdos who likes the Nord piano sounds.

[LX88]

Hmmmm...$1299.00, and 55 lbs?

 

One of my favorite subjects among musicians ( or rather, musical instrument owners) is the lack of options for stereo keyboards compared to the numerous amplification options for guitar players.

 

I have heard the Motion Sound amp in question as played by Joey De Francesco at Steamers in Anaheim around the time that the Key B organ was coming out. He liked to fool people with the leslie sim as I recall. The amp sounded great with the Key B.

 

Since this amp is not within my budget, I opt for a relatively good and somewhat lightweight stereo power amp and a pair of full range speakers -often but not always ones without high frequency drivers. For organ and EP's ( what I play mostly) I don't need anything that a 12 inch full range cannot give me.

 

HAMMOND proved that high frequency drivers were unneccesary for organ with the PR -40 tone cabinet years ago. And Fender did not use a high frequency driver in their suitcase pianos ( at least not that I am aware of). I am a fan of the Hammond PR-40 tone cabinet sound . I really like the warmth and smooth response that it offers. Leslies are often a crap shoot for me. I have heard many of them that are just too bright, which may have something to do with aging drivers , crossovers etc.

 

The point of my post is that I think we have a ways to go regarding keyboard amplification - especially for digital piano. Some savvy guitar amp designer might benefit from taking note. There is a hell of a lot less competition for keyboard amplification than there is for guitar amps.