I am tired of Sonar - I want a new DAW...?

[Bansaw]

Sonar just ticked me off one too many times.

Its buggy and awkward. I am looking for a new DAW.

 

I am toying with the idea of Reaper.

 

Here's my profile:

* I am a home producer, looking to enjoy making music

* I have a number of VSTs (MOTU ethno, symphonic etc)

* I am looking to create music beds to go under videos

* I want a sequencer in the program that is easy to use

* I dont want a bulky program with a massive amount of features I might not use

* I want to navigate and manipulate clips easily

* I am not averse to using loops

 

Any comments?

 

[ElmerJFudd]

To make background music for videos, you mainly want a big library of loops that you can stretch to your desired tempos, right? Then build little sequences, patterns around that with a nice collection of instruments ("real" and synthetic).

 

Try Sequel 3 from Steinberg,

http://www.steinberg.net/en/products/sequel/start.html

 

Very much like GarageBand on Mac OSX with tons of loops, midi patterns, included. Plus loads of sounds and it can also host your VSTs. Very simple to use, and lots of video tutorials. No advanced features. It's very basic.

 

Only downside is copy protection. But if you're a legit user using it on one PC, should be no problem.

[steadyb]

Studio One.

[mate stubb]

 

This kinda describes me too. I have Sonar on an old computer which just about can't run it any more.

[midinut]

+1 on Sequel. You may want to look at Cubase Elements as well. It would be more like Sonar, yet there would be an upgrade path if you wanted more features later via Artist or the full Monty.

[CEB]

Reaper is worth a look. Reaper has loop functionality and it won't hurt to check it out.

[Danny Linguini]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds Sonar unnecessarily kludgy. I had just set it up a few years ago and converted most of my old Cakewalk files into whatever format Sonar uses when my then new laptop crapped out, needing a new hard drive. I had the cakewalk files backed up, but I had not backed up anything else on the lappie yet, so I lost everything. I found Sonar to be such a pain in the ass to use, and I was so distraught at losing all that work, I never redid any of it. I think I fired it up once when I first reinstalled it, and never touched it again. Total shame because I have hundreds of home-made sequences, song files that people charge rather handsomely for today. But that crap program is so unintuitive, I just couldn't be bothered torturing myself with it any more. Because I couldn't find anything else that reads or converts Cakewalk files, and because I really only need a MIDI sequencer more than a full digital recording setup, I pretty much just gave up on that little pastime -- and the gear I had acquired specifically for that purpose.

 

Not to hijack (which I'm apparently gonna do anyway), but is there such a thing today as a package that is primarily a software sequencer like the old Cakewalk, and not a full studio software that also does sequencing? Last time I looked, there was no such animal to be found. Preferably one that runs on a Mac and is more user-friendly than Sonar, ideally one that can at least read old Cakewalk files.

[OB Dave]

Reaper was the first thing I tried when I wanted to move away from Sonar. I joked that it should have been called Raper because that's what it'll do to your afternoon. I had high hopes for it because it was written by the same folks that wrote Winamp (which I loved) but I found the interface extremely klunky.

 

I ended up switching to Logic Pro X. Granted it only runs on Mac, but if you have one, it's an unbeatable bang for the buck.

[ksoper]

Sonar just ticked me off one too many times.

Its buggy and awkward.

 

For me it kept getting better. X3 Producer has been rock solid and it doesn't get in my way. To each their own.

[roygBiv]

Thumbs up for Reaper.

 

Been using it since late 2007.

 

The user interface is a little more clunky than others, but it is tremendously powerful, and if you are comfortable with hardware-based recording (mixers, patchbays, etc.), it is very easy to get your way around.

 

You can try it out for free, and it is only $60 or so for a multi-year license (they constantly update it as well).

 

To me, Reaper is like the recording equivalent of Firefox - extremely powerful, and run by people who are trying to make non-sleazy software. That's worth something to me.

 

Also runs very well on older hardware, as noted above, the dude who is the main programmer wrote WinAmp, and Gnutella, etc. A real Genius programer.

 

give it a shot, waddya got to lose?

 

PS: I re-read your original post, and some of your comments are perfect for Reaper:

* I have a number of VSTs (MOTU ethno, symphonic etc)

- Reaper comes with some Basic VST effects, but no fancy instruments, so that sounds perfect for you.

 

* I am looking to create music beds to go under videos

- I believe Reaper has improved its synch capabilities with Video, might want to check into that.

 

* I want a sequencer in the program that is easy to use

- Not sure if Reaper has implemented this well, to be honest - i think there is a third-party making a Reaper sequencer, haven't checked that for a while.

 

* I dont want a bulky program with a massive amount of features I might not use

- I think the Reaper download is only ~ 6 Meg (not a typo), you'd be hard pressed to finder a smaller, tighter Audio program.

 

* I want to navigate and manipulate clips easily

* I am not averse to using loops

- Not sure how Reaper is with this, haven't tried these capabilities (I mainly use it for recording bands, and doing overdubs, as well as live recordings)

[Phil Aiken]

I enjoy Logic to create in, and use Pro Tools for audio, as I need to interface with commercial studios on a regular basis, plus I prefer it for audio editing.

 

I hear amazing things about Studio One, and were I looking to switch right now, would definitely check that out.

[Justin Havu]

I think I might be in the minority here, but I love Sonar. I've tried Reaper, Studio One, Cubase, Digital Performer, but I always kept coming back to Sonar. I've been using Cakewalk stuff since Pro Audio 9 and have been a Sonar user since Sonar 6. Granted, there are a lot of features I don't use, but I'm so used to the workflow that anything else seems a bit foreign to me. To each his own.

[RABid]

Sonar still fits my workflow. It is bloated, but so is everything else that has been around 20+ years. What I have learned over the years is not to rely on just one DAW. I move around depending on what I am doing. Reason, Live, Sonar and just a bit of ProTools for me. Usually in that order. Reason to make audio loops. Live to create MIDI loops and play around with the all the loops until I get the structure I want. Sonar to modify MIDI loops for change-ups through the song and to make it linear. And sometimes ProTools to finalize after it has all tracks have been converted to audio.

 

I could probably do everything in Sonar but I enjoy Reason and Live for loop work and feel no need to force the entire process into one DAW.

[BbAltered]

Sonar just ticked me off one too many times.

Its buggy and awkward. I am looking for a new DAW.

 

I am toying with the idea of Reaper.

 

Here's my profile:

* I am a home producer, looking to enjoy making music

* I have a number of VSTs (MOTU ethno, symphonic etc)

* I am looking to create music beds to go under videos

* I want a sequencer in the program that is easy to use

* I dont want a bulky program with a massive amount of features I might not use

* I want to navigate and manipulate clips easily

* I am not averse to using loops

 

Any comments?

 

I am a long-time Cakewalk user (since the MIDI-only days). When I upgraded from Sonar 8.5 to Sonar X2, I had horrible problems - repeated random hard crashes of the OS. Of course, Sonar tech support repeatedly told me this was a problem of my computer hardware, and I spent a year and a half troubleshooting to find out what was wrong with my computer without finding anything. I then had the idea of trying a different DAW. I used Reaper because the demo version is fully functional for 30 days (yes, it saves and everything else as well) - a nice long period for testing. And when using Reaper, my computer functioned perfectly without any crashing, while I continuing to see crashes when running Sonar. So I was able to go to the CW tech support people and demonstrate that the computer itself was fine.

 

So I have had a good experience with Reaper. But I have to tell you that using a different DAW takes time and energy (for me). Stuff I would do without thinking in Sonar would require hours of manual-searching and forum-questioning (fortunately, the Reaper manual and forum are both helpful). And Reaper seems to have more customization build in, so while you can end up with DAW that is tailor-made for you and your work, you have to do that tailoring, and that takes work.

 

I got my Sonar problems resolved, and I am again using Sonar exclusively now (I think Sonar has some of the best and most extensive MIDI functionality of all DAWs). But I found out there is life beyond Sonar, and Reaper has lots going for it.

 

As I said, the Reaper demo version is fully functional for 30 days. Give it a try yourself.

[HAMEGZ]

I have been a long time Cakewalk user, since its DOS 12 tone days, and a long time Cakewalk Forum member.

 

I am NOT discounting the OPs problems, but the members on the forum are quite helpful(although there are some RTFM members there)

and CW tech support, 99.999 times it is the PC or hardware settings, there are rolling updates and a very good beta/bug network so it keeps getting better.

 

I am a simples midi guy using VSTs , I dont use half the capability of the DAW but those features dont affect my work flow.

 

There were some good suggestions here , although it have disdain for Reapers GUI and workflow, it works for lots of people.

 

I am certainly not trying to return the OP to the fold, and not a fanboi, but suggest a visit to the forums for those who might also think Sonar suxs

 

[vonnor]

I started out on Sonar a few years ago, but got a free license for Cubase AI 7 back when I bought my MOXF8 and started digging into that. Now I'm pretty familiar with it and it does everything I need. I don't do loops but I know it can, I use some beats as starters but always tweak them.

[mcgoo]

To the OP, keep in mind that it's going to be hard to find a new DAW strictly on someone else's recommendations, because, as you see here, everyone has different tastes.

 

I'm also a happy LONG time Cakewalk / Sonar user (since DOS days), so it's hard for me to imagine why someone else finds it so hard to use. Best advice I can give is, download everyone's demo & give each one a spin.

[mate stubb]

I want a new DAW

One that won't make me sick

One that won't make me crash my drive

Or make me feel three feet thick

[Bill W]

I want a new DAW

One that won't make me sick

One that won't make me crash my drive

Or make me feel three feet thick

 

Ha, I looked at the title of this thread and started singing that...guess I wasn't the only one.

 

Incidentally, I just left Cakewalk after 17 years (Pro Audio 9 through Sonar X3). I bought a Mac Mini a couple of years ago and fell in love with Mainstage and then Logic Pro X. Making the switch to Logic was easy, but transferring projects in progress is a bit of work!

 

 

[johnchop]

Best advice I can give is, download everyone's demo & give each one a spin.

 

This.

 

Bitwig, Ableton, Tracktion... all worth a look.

[johnchop]

... although I missed the Video requirement.

 

Still, I think they are worth evaluating.

[Doug White]

How about Propellerhead's Reason? Reason is kind of its own animal. I use it with Cubase via ReWire, but it can stand alone too these days.

 

Reason & ReWire could breath some new life into your Sonar investment.

 

[Jazzmammal]

* I want a sequencer in the program that is easy to use

* I dont want a bulky program with a massive amount of features I might not use

* I want to navigate and manipulate clips easily

 

Any comments?

 

My comment is it doesn't exist.

 

A DAW is a high tech piece of complex software. They are designed to replicate a true professional studio experience without spending a gazillion bucks for all the hardware you see in a big studio's control room.

 

No way around it, just dig in and learn it. Sonar is a very respected DAW. You already know "something" about it now, to start over just might push you over the edge and you wind up forgetting about the whole thing so just learn what you already have. There are lots of good YT vids to help you.

 

Bob

[TomKittel]

A couple of years ago I dumped Cubase and replaced it with Presonus Studio One. I think there is a free demo available. I am a very happy camper with Studio One. I never looked back.

 

JMTC

[Bansaw]

Thanks All for the input. Appreciated.

[jmolino]

For those of you that are mostly doing live performances using VST's and don't need the full capability of a DAW, but need more than just a basic VST host - I have had great experience with Cantabile Software - the Ultimate VST Plugin host for Live Performace

 

I've found this software to do everything I need without all the added complexity of a full blown DAW. It also can be used to trigger Video Files/media players (to address the OP's main concerns).

 

And as far as a new DAW goes - I've tried them all (I'm a Windows guy, not a MAC guy) and have found Samplitude Samplitude Pro X2 (they also have various other flavors) to be just what I needed. I love the workflow and it does everything I need. Just my 2 cents....

 

Hope this helps someone.

 

Best Regards,

John

[Geoff Grace]

... although I missed the Video requirement.

Yeah, that's the one that's at odds with the "bulky program with a massive amount of features I might not use" requirement. After all, video isn't one of the first features included in programs geared toward musicians. The last time I looked, Reaper didn't support video; but perhaps that's changed.

 

The good news is that most mature DAWs have been reworked from the ground up in recent years to move to 64-bits; so while they may still be bloated with features, they're no longer bloated with code.

 

Digital Performer is very popular with composers scoring to video. I, myself, use Pro Tools for that purpose. While Pro Tools is mostly aimed at engineers, its MIDI features are extensive enough for most keyboard players; and its two window interface is very straightforward to use.

 

That said, all the DAWs mentioned in the posts above have their merits; and any of them could be a good fit depending on your own preferences.

 

Best,

 

Geoff