Way, Way, Way OT: Divorce

[DulceLabs.com]

I dated, in order: the girl you don't take home to Mama with a body built for sin and perhaps the most lost, amoral person I have ever met

 

You miss her, don't you?

[delmar]

I dated, in order: the girl you don't take home to Mama with a body built for sin and perhaps the most lost, amoral person I have ever met

 

You miss her, don't you?

 

Let's just say that after ten years with a woman who was only interested in my overtures about 20% of the time, the first two months with that girl was insane. In a great way. I was like a man released from prison. But it turned out she wanted a sugar daddy. Who dealt drugs. I'm way too cheap for that. I've always chosen musical gear over imbibing much of anything. Even now, my gf brings home good bourbon, and I rarely have any. Now, Papa Murphy's I can completely understand!

 

Just give me the great outdoors, music, good food and a good woman and I'm all set!

[sparetime]

Separated for over 3 years... gets boring and lonely at times, but I don't miss the nonsense.

 

How does that work? ...

It works any way you can devise. I couldn't take it anymore and moved out. But because our son was still in high school and she didn't work, I continued to pay all the bills and gave her some additional cash. We lived this way for 4yrs. Once he left for college we began mediation. Now as part of the agreement we're not officially divorcing until she finishes a master's program. Staying married, I can subsidize her medical ins.

 

But do I get any credit for all that Noooooo. Like Timwat, I elected to take the high road. Dis'ing the ex, is dis'ing the kid. I actually defend her to him. I took it as an opportunity to be a model for my son, and it's paying off big time. Protect the kids as much as possible with your actions.

 

But I also embraced, what a counselor once told me: "Ha! everybody's been f'd up by their parents!" You can't shield them from everything.

[Lindaru]

MOI and Piano . . . my best to you for your best during these trying times. Divorced twice, one was 11-1/2 years and the other just about four years (I found out he and his girl-friend were plotting to kill me for the money which I had and he did not). No, not a television pilot, reality. He was gone in a heart beat.

 

As for kids, I never had any of my own, but the one I am married to now had three at the time. I was the balm that soothed the pain of the divorce they had lived through.

 

Encourage your kids to be the best they can be. No one should feel that who they are depends on who someone else is.

 

Hang in there and know we are all here for you.

 

 

[hookie]

Math and Piano,

 

My heart goes out to you both especially at this tough time in life. You've heard some good advice here, I think, and I hope it helps. It's pretty cool to hear so much from all our buds here. Good group for sure.

 

My second divorce was finalized about a year and a half ago. Yep, lonely sometimes, especially because I'm not with my youngest, 18 year old, everyday like before. But throughout both divorces and other painful experiences, music has ALWAYS been a constant love, passion, and escape for me. I never thought I would ever be divorced once, not alone twice. I'm so grateful for music because it always gives back so much more than it takes. And it's always there for you.

 

Always take the high road, the best example you can be for your children. Do NOT get involved in a relationship for quite a while, remain focused on always being there for your children, and when you can't, turn to your lifelong bud, music. Most faithful friend.

 

Best wishes to both, hang in there. It WILL get better, and you WILL become a better person if done right.

[MathOfInsects]

This is the best thread about my very recently initiated divorce that I've ever started here.

[J. Dan]

This is the best thread about my very recently initiated divorce that I've ever started here.

 

Wait til your second divorce

[MathOfInsects]

You mean sometimes the first one doesn't take??

[RudyS]

Math and Piano,

 

Wish you guys a lot of strength! Hang in there (or hang in here actually) While I was never married, so I don't know really how you feel, I have been in the situation were my girlfriend left me after 5 years. Quite a though period.

 

You guys will get better. Turn to friends and turn to music in this period. It helps!

[Josh Paxton]

You mean sometimes the first one doesn't take??

 

Sometimes you don't learn your lesson the first time. I've ended one marriage, one engagement, and one multi-year cohabitational relationship. And there's currently a woman in my life with whom I would take the plunge again in a heartbeat if she said the word. Because humans are irrational creatures whose decision-making capabilities are enslaved by their primitive limbic systems, and who generally act pretty much exactly the way you would expect a species to act when it's about half a chromosome away from being chimpanzees, that's why.

[I-missRichardTee]

You mean sometimes the first one doesn't take??

 

Sometimes you don't learn your lesson the first time. I've ended one marriage, one engagement, and one multi-year cohabitational relationship. And there's currently a woman in my life with whom I would take the plunge again in a heartbeat if she said the word. Because humans are irrational creatures whose decision-making capabilities are enslaved by their primitive limbic systems, and who generally act pretty much exactly the way you would expect a species to act when it's about half a chromosome away from being chimpanzees, that's why.

 

Math have you noticed that cats like us, while entertaining to some, also are irritating as well! You and I are definitely in that category.

Our mouths entertain and offend.. with me so far?

I think this generalized by me, tendency to excite and offend, is in need of self examination in terms of choosing a future mate who can harmonize with our natures.

 

I know I irritate you, and you me.. ( I certainly do not wish you any further pain, as the with this awful kind you are enduring ) But consider this, I am older than you, and have had many a failed relationship, and I believe these tendencies of mine are a direct link to those failed relationships. Consider this about self, BEFORE you get involved with another female.

I read somewhere that basically we are what we are, and eg 15 women will basically agree that Imissrichardtee, is a such and such.. whatever qualities they pickup on.

if I interrupt her, if I am rude if I do not listen to her as much as to my own running dialogue etc etc most if not all women will register these traits about me uniformly. Therefore searching for that special needle in a haystack woman who is going to just accept me warts and all, is a perilous position to take.

 

The best time to take personal inventory of our traits ( or whatever you choose to codify them as ) is maybe when we are in between mates.. like tempering steel, while that pain is in your body, it is a handy time to not beat yourself up, but to just look hard and deep.

Someone said if we could only see ourselves as others see us.

Our friends will often hide any ugliness about us from us.. who knows why. At the end of a relationship is a good time to even talk to a therapist or candid friend.

Peace to you

 

[Dr88s]

...a species to act when it's about half a chromosome away from being chimpanzees, that's why.

 

Entirely irrelevant and OT to this important thread, but your post prompted me to read about the chimpanzee genome and the evolutionary fusion of two smaller ape chromosomes into human chromosome 2. Fascinating stuff.

 

Back to the matter at hand, I'm sorry - or not - to read about your situation. That all depends upon the circumstances. This too shall pass!

 

 

[Aidan]

My own recommendations, for what they're worth:

 

* Try and stay friends, or at least friendly and civil. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by either of you going at each other's throats, and there will be occasions in the future (weddings, funerals etc) where you will see each other and have to act like adults. I still talk to my first wife regularly, and she sat with my second wife at my niece's wedding.

 

* Conversely, try to get out of each other's regular space as quickly as possible. Once a line has been crossed, living in close proximity to each other is extremely counter-productive and likely to ramp up anger and resentment.

 

* Don't be negative in any way in front of the kids, especially about the other parent. I had no children from my first marriage but my second wife had two grown-up children. I took them aside at an early point and made it clear that I had no ambitions of replacing their father; I simply wished to be their friend. I have NEVER said anything negative about their dad in front of them, even when they've bitched ABOUT him to their mum.

 

* Involve the lawyers as little as possible. The fact is that 99.9% of divorces end with a 50/50 split of the assets it's just not worth fighting about. My first wife and I decided what we wanted, went to a lawyer together and had him frame it in legal terms. Believe me, this IS the best way if you can possibly do it.

 

All the above sounds wonderfully rosy but of course it hurt; of course we fought a good deal and there were recriminations on all sides. But if you can keep the practical details simple, the sooner you can both move on, both practically and emotionally.

 

[Synthoid]

This too shall pass!

 

That's what the constipated priest said anyway.

 

 

[HammondDave]

You know, this brings up the whole mishigas of "alimony". Why, in this culture of equal rights for women, do men still get screwed having to pay alimony? Why is this expected?

 

Now I totally understand child support. I also understand that in some cases the wife may have given up a career choice because the husband was so thick headed that he demanded that she do so for some stupid reason, but to expect a man to support the wife with alimony seems so last century... And unfair.

[HammondDave]

I also have a one word suggestion to all who have not yet gotten married:

 

"Prenup"

[Lindaru]

In my case and in more modern days, I would have needed to pay alimony to the two previous husbands, but as it was, they got a huge chunk of my settlement (I had to pay off one's Monte Carlo SS and provide enough financial support to the second so that he would be taken care of for at least a year). The first also got the condo we were buying and everything that went with it.

 

I am so grateful there were no children involved.

 

I recommend for all that can work things out as to splits that they go the "do it yourself" route. Much less expensive and if you agree upon the terms in advance, less resentment involved.

 

 

[HammondDave]

In my case and in more modern days, I would have needed to pay alimony to the two previous husbands, but as it was, they got a huge chunk of my settlement (I had to pay off one's Monte Carlo SS and provide enough financial support to the second so that he would be taken care of for at least a year). The first also got the condo we were buying and everything that went with it.

 

I am so grateful there were no children involved.

 

I recommend for all that can work things out as to splits that they go the "do it yourself" route. Much less expensive and if you agree upon the terms in advance, less resentment involved.

 

 

And that's why prenups are so important ...

[delmar]

In my case and in more modern days, I would have needed to pay alimony to the two previous husbands, but as it was, they got a huge chunk of my settlement (I had to pay off one's Monte Carlo SS and provide enough financial support to the second so that he would be taken care of for at least a year). The first also got the condo we were buying and everything that went with it.

 

I am so grateful there were no children involved.

 

 

Need a boyfriend?

[J. Dan]

Laws are different in different states, but in Misssouri you can do uncontested and pretty much have it written up however you want. For child support, there's Missouri Form 14, but there's enough adjustment on there for various factors that you can pretty much make it come out however you want. I put together a big spreadsheet with each of our estimated budgets for the next 19 years including pay raises, taxes, cars when the kids turn 16, etc. I let my ex look through it and change any numbers as she saw fit. It pretty much put things into perspective. We we agreed on a number and custody schedule and had a guy write it up for something like $1200. We never had to go to court. If you can do it that way, I highly recommend it. Lawyers have no interest in settling things quickly - they get paid by the hour.

[El Lobo]

Marriages are like pancakes. You throw the first one away.

 

But seriously folks, getting divorced was the hardest and most painful thing I've ever been through because there were 2 young kids involved. I got severely depressed and went crazy for a while. But I got through it and my life since has been wonderful. I met the right woman, we lived together for many years and we married a year ago on Halloween (for financial reasons mostly we're old now).

 

I ended up with very good relationships with my kids as they got older. I never badmouthed their mother to them, but I sure did away from them. I now have 6 grandkids and a good relationship with all of them.

 

When I was dating my ex-wife I was a young rock 'n' roller playing in a successful band. She kept all my gigs on her calendar which she called her "shit list." That should have been a clue right there, but I was young and dumb. My lady now completely supports my music - I'm playing in several bands and sometimes rehearsals are every night of the week and sometimes weekend afternoons. She may raise an eyebrow when I'm gone several nights in a row but she never even suggests that I not do as much music as I'm doing. That's the lady for me.

 

Another thought: my parents stayed together for the sake of "the family." They probably shouldn't have, but it was an earlier time.

[seanl]

I pulled the pin 10 years ago. I was 42 at the time. It was with my highschool sweetheart. No kids. My home became my prison. I walked downstairs, made breakfast, took the house key off of my keychain and slid it across the table. I tapped out, said "you won, it's all yours".

Walked away with the clothes on my back. Slept in my shop for 3 months before I got my shit together and moved on with my life.

 

Robert De Niro in Heat. "Walk away".

 

[Lindaru]

In my case and in more modern days, I would have needed to pay alimony to the two previous husbands, but as it was, they got a huge chunk of my settlement (I had to pay off one's Monte Carlo SS and provide enough financial support to the second so that he would be taken care of for at least a year). The first also got the condo we were buying and everything that went with it.

 

I am so grateful there were no children involved.

 

 

Need a boyfriend?

 

I ain't rich no more. Probably why this marriage works.

 

 

[Lindaru]

My first husband was a rock and roller guitarist which was how we met up at a recording session I was doing with a mutual friend.

 

I met the second one who was on disability but very nice and romantic at a place I volunteered (for the blind).

 

In 1988 I was up for a syndicated spot on national F.M. radio and was down to the final four. The show would be music and comedy. The seventies and eighties Chicago and surrounding areas were the top for comedy in television and live performance. I made an agreement with the universe that if I got the spot, I would stay. If not, I would go.

 

I did not. I would not find out until 1989 who got it. John Candy with "Radio Kandy".

 

I lived up to my agreement and tried my hand at getting work in San Francisco (bad idea since they had an earthquake in October 1989 and work was hard to find).

 

Not finding anything in San Francisco, I moved up to Portland, Oregon. I ended up taking a Federal clerical test which put me in a position to work at something new, a clerical job at the Portland V.A. Medical Center where I met current hubby.

 

Sometimes the ones we are meant to meet are ones we would never dream of. Sometimes the ones we thought would be the best for us turn out not to be.

 

Life is just plain funny sometimes.

 

:idk

[marino]

Sometimes the ones we are meant to meet are ones we would never dream of. Sometimes the ones we thought would be the best for us turn out not to be.

 

Life is just plain funny sometimes.

 

:idk

Absolutely!

 

 

[Aidan]

Sometimes the ones we are meant to meet are ones we would never dream of. Sometimes the ones we thought would be the best for us turn out not to be.

 

Life is just plain funny sometimes.

 

Absolutely. The woman I ended up marrying, second time around, was my best friend at primary school. Aged 8. We were never boyfriend/girlfriend during our childhoods but we were always great friends. We remain so.

[delmar]

This song comes to mind.

 

[Moonglow]

It is sad when something two people once believed in so much does not work out, and when a marriage ends there is often a grieving process (e.g., Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression, Acceptance). However, a common problem is that the person who initiates the divorce is often much further along in the grieving processeven at acceptancewhereas the other person may still be at denial, which can impact how things proceed.

 

Im not a marriage counselor, but when Ive had a client in my office contemplating divorce, I usually ask two critical questions, at various levels of directness depending on their defensive structures:

 

1. Are you committed to the marriage?

 

2. Do you have your partners best interests at heart?

 

Both of the above questions must be answered in the affirmative (i.e., Yes-Yes) for the marriage to benefit from further counseling.

 

I happen to think Question 1 is the most important. However, a Yes response doesnt have to be for the most noble reasons (e.g., Im committed because I like my house.). But in absence of a certain threshold of commitment, and whatever drives it, there is often very little to build on.

 

MOI, Im sensing that it is probably a little too late for you to be asking these questions. Indeed, a marriage counselor friend of mine once told me that over 50% of the couples he sees are after it is too late. But as anyone who has been in an extended marriage can probably tell you, marriages usually have an ebb and flow....and sometimes an ebb can be for prolonged periods. A few months is a comparatively short period of time when framed within the backdrop of a 20-30-40-50 year marriage. Just another perspective.

 

Change can be highly stressful, and divorce is a huge life change unit, second only to the death of a spouse...not that these two cant be correlated (sorry for the attempt at gallows humor). However, a good therapist/counselor can assist folks, and perhaps more importantly their children, through the divorce process. I would urge you to keep the need for said intervention on your radar screen.

 

[MathOfInsects]

Very perceptive post, Moonglow. I didn't know you were a therapist.

 

We did our nickels in couples' therapy. This week, she asked if I would go again. I pointed out that we'd gone before--recently--and yet look where we were. Worse (to me), The Thing That Happened, happened concurrent with therapy. So...we're clearly the other 50% at this point. But I read the compassion between the lines in your post, and I appreciate it.

 

I also want to say that if this...

 

I pulled the pin 10 years ago. I was 42 at the time. It was with my highschool sweetheart. No kids. My home became my prison. I walked downstairs, made breakfast, took the house key off of my keychain and slid it across the table. I tapped out, said "you won, it's all yours".

Walked away with the clothes on my back. Slept in my shop for 3 months before I got my shit together and moved on with my life.

 

...is true, it's bad-ass, and way cooler than I've ever been.

[piano39]

Very good comments Moonglow. I wish my wife told me that there was a serious problem a year ago, so we would have had a chance with counseling. Instead, when I figured out that there was a problem, she claimed "it's too late. You should have known".

 

oh, well.