Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Danny Linguini]

Just received my SV3 today.. Gave it first test run at the house. Well, I know this amp is much beloved by most as evidenced in this forum, but I have to say it hasn't blown me away..I have been playing my electro 5d thru it and of course it's the AP's I use as the bench mark. AP's on the nord sound decent enough but still have that stage amp boxiness . Of course Hammond sounds sound nice and Ep's sound nice, but they usually do even in mono. I may have a different perspective then others here because i have been using a MS 500sn prior to this purchases and honestly so far im thinking I like the MS better. The stereo litmus test to me is the stereo auto pan on a rhodes. I do like the fatter dimensional effect I get from the MS better. Of course that amp is almost twice the price as the SV3 and only marginally better in my opinion. Also i dont need mixers/subs special stands and sound reflectors to tweek the sounds.. with that said i do think this is a great KB amp option , one of the best out there for sure. I just think in my case I could have done without it..but with so much buzz on this thing it was hard to resist( you all know how that goes).I may be sending it back or offering it up for sale on here shortly. In fairness it needs a little more experimenting

I've found AP's to be tricky with any amplification. The only thing I've found the quickest and easiest to get the best AP sounds are my Mackie MR6 MK3 studio monitors; but live sound AP's are always a challenge. I can't tell you how many amps and pairs of powered PA's I've been through, and I'm sure I'm still a lightweight compared to some in here.

 

The trick I've found with the SS3 is mostly in the EQ. The SS3 seems to be very mid-heavy, even with the coaxial main and supertweeter. On the mixer, a little up on the lows and highs, a little down on the mids, then season the on-board mixer to taste, and I've gotten a very satisfying AP. I have not used any special stands or baffles, but I did get a fairly cheap 10" sub (Seismic Audio Really-Mini-Tremor), which rounds out the bottom nicely for playing solo. It's not the same as near-field monitors in a small area, but it's probably the best piano sound I've been able to get in an actual live setting.

 

Now that being said, this amp is a bit more difficult then others when on stage, though, mostly because of the side-firing speaker and what comes out of it. It takes a bit more fiddling to get it positioned just right so that you, your band mates, and the audience get the best sound, all this made even more difficult by the usual space constraints on the live stages that most of us get to play on. But when you do finally nail it and get everything right, it's just audio bliss.

[agitato]

From what I've read in this forum, and elsewhere, for the under $1000 dollar price range,$499 street, the best speaker (out of the box, no tweaking)for acoustic piano sound reproduction is the ev za1-90.

[Al Quinn]

zaj58,

 

I'm not surprised by your reaction. For me, the best thing about the SS V3 is the omni present sound effect. For your needs this doesn't seem too important. In terms of just audio quality I don't hear the SS as a step above some of the other choices. For me, the SS is the best choice for Hammond clone and other sounds with strong stereo content (e.g., EP's with stereo effects). I should mention that weight matters to me and the SS is right about at the limit for me. So I use it on jazz organ, blues, and rock gigs. But for APs audio fidelity seems to be the main requirement and for that there are many other good choices. If I'm doing a piano centric gig (e.g., "acoustic" jazz gig) I use my RFC TT08's which sound awesome. Of course the TT08's are much more expensive, but the point I'm trying to make is APs seem to thrive on the best audio quality and for audio quality alone the SS is very good but not necessarily better than other choices in it's price range.

[Reezekeys]

Again I'm compelled to say (after reading the few messages above regarding zaj58's posts) I don't understand the idea of favoring an amp because it sounds better to the audience. If that characteristic is more important than an amp sounding great to you on stage and inspiring your playing, you & I are very different kinds of musicians.

 

Also, again (I know I said this somewhere in the bowels of this thread! ) total respect and props to Aspen for his work. It's obviously a one-of-a-kind amplification system, one I would welcome the opportunity to try out. I'm pretty sure I'd find a lot to like about it. Right now my two K8's, directly in back of me and on either side, make me 100% happy.

[cdom]

For what it's worth, Reezekeys...

 

I played live (loud, rock/blues/soul cover band) with a Nord Stage 2 and a pair of K8s for over 2 years and believed I had reached amplification nirvana. Trouble is, just when I thought I had the perfect stage mix, my bandmates were telling me that I was too loud, and the audience was telling me they couldn't hear the keys.

 

I still play the NS2 with the same band (40% APs, 30% organ, 20% EPs, 10% synths), but now it goes through a mixer to an SSV3 and a sub. ALL my 'instruments' sound better to me, my bandmates, and audience alike. A will tell you this, I had to completely re-EQ and tweak all my program settings, especially the pianos. Give it some time, and soon you will join us on the Dark Side.

 

BTW, if it's truly important for you to have the best possible stage reference possible, I recommend these...

http://shop.gorillaears.com/collections/gx-series/products/gx-8?variant=415230269

[Doug Robinson]

"I don't understand the idea of favoring an amp because it sounds better to the audience. If that characteristic is more important than an amp sounding great to you on stage and inspiring your playing, you & I are very different kinds of musicians."

 

 

Well, it isn't *more* important to me, but it's equally important. And significantly, it's been impossible for me to achieve till now. Now that i have a lot of experience with the SS3 and have dialed in the best sound, location, position, etc, I'm super happy with the way i sound; I love that my bandmates always comment on how much they appreciate it; and I love how musicians in the crowd say it sounds better than anything they've heard before for keys.

 

I have to be able to hear myself to really dig in and play my best, so sounding good to myself is huge.

[Doug Robinson]

"I played live (loud, rock/blues/soul cover band) with a Nord Stage 2 and a pair of K8s for over 2 years and believed I had reached amplification nirvana. Trouble is, just when I thought I had the perfect stage mix, my bandmates were telling me that I was too loud, and the audience was telling me they couldn't hear the keys."

 

 

Except for the specific gear setup, that was my experience too--pre-SS3, when I used to get my keys sounding killer to me onstage, the band was merely tolerating the sound and the audience was telling me to either turn up or down.

[Reezekeys]

OK then I stand corrected, although I do recall seeing several posts on this thread that seemed to say the stage sound wasn't that great for those very close to it, and the amp needed space for the sound to "bloom." Also, posts about building & attaching reflectors to get the sound to propagate correctly (or not blast the guitarist or bassist set up next to the keys). And, the posts from some users about needing a subwoofer to get the best out of it. It just seems like a lot of potential trouble spots to me. Since I've never used or heard one I guess I should reserve any further judgment, and I certainly don't want to rain on anyone's parade if they think it's a great amp.

 

Another reason I'm a little skeptical about the SSv3 is that I'm very much used to hearing my close-miked stereo piano samples in true stereo, with a left and right component on my left and right. I'm not sure how the SS would give me that. Again, maybe someday I'll find out and it'll be a revelation if that's the case I'll be happy to admit it. I do know that setting up my Ks to give good coverage for me, the band and the audience is tricky. But it sounds like the same would be true of the SSv3 apparently its effect is dependent on the reflective surfaces around it. Anyway, I'm glad you guys are happy with it, that is of course the bottom line.

[Raymb1]

OK then I stand corrected, although I do recall seeing several posts on this thread that seemed to say the stage sound wasn't that great for those very close to it, and the amp needed space for the sound to "bloom." Also, posts about building & attaching reflectors to get the sound to propagate correctly (or not blast the guitarist or bassist set up next to the keys). And, the posts from some users about needing a subwoofer to get the best out of it. It just seems like a lot of potential trouble spots to me. Since I've never used or heard one I guess I should reserve any further judgment, and I certainly don't want to rain on anyone's parade if they think it's a great amp.

 

Another reason I'm a little skeptical about the SSv3 is that I'm very much used to hearing my close-miked stereo piano samples in true stereo, with a left and right component on my left and right. I'm not sure how the SS would give me that. Again, maybe someday I'll find out and it'll be a revelation if that's the case I'll be happy to admit it. I do know that setting up my Ks to give good coverage for me, the band and the audience is tricky. But it sounds like the same would be true of the SSv3 apparently its effect is dependent on the reflective surfaces around it. Anyway, I'm glad you guys are happy with it, that is of course the bottom line.

 

The SS3 is not true stereo sound where there is a narrow sweet spot. It's more a 3D or surround sound. The first time my wife heard it in my small music room, she said it sounded like a real piano was in the room. A real piano doesn't sound like stereo. Even outside the room the effect was still pronounced. I would think that one should want to please the audience as well as yourself with the best sound possible.

[Brettymike]

A real piano sounds like stereo to me , because I've got 2 ears.

Brett

[Danny Linguini]

Again I'm compelled to say (after reading the few messages above regarding zaj58's posts) I don't understand the idea of favoring an amp because it sounds better to the audience. If that characteristic is more important than an amp sounding great to you on stage and inspiring your playing, you & I are very different kinds of musicians.

Last time I checked, it's usually the people in the audience I'm playing to that are either directly or indirectly paying for me to play. The audience is the reason I'm there, otherwise I'd just stay home (and save a crapload of coin in live gear in the process). So yes, I want it to sound as good as possible to them, though not more so than it sounds to me. I don't think anybody wants an amp that sounds great to the audience and crappy to the performer, and that's absolutely not the case with the SS3. It takes a little more work to get it there for everybody than with more conventional sound systems; but once it's there, in most cases, it's a better sound for everybody.

[Danny Linguini]

Another reason I'm a little skeptical about the SSv3 is that I'm very much used to hearing my close-miked stereo piano samples in true stereo, with a left and right component on my left and right. I'm not sure how the SS would give me that. Again, maybe someday I'll find out and it'll be a revelation if that's the case I'll be happy to admit it. I do know that setting up my Ks to give good coverage for me, the band and the audience is tricky. But it sounds like the same would be true of the SSv3 apparently its effect is dependent on the reflective surfaces around it. Anyway, I'm glad you guys are happy with it, that is of course the bottom line.

The SS3 won't give you that same distinct L&R. But, as has also been discussed here a few hundred chapters or so ago, neither does a real acoustic piano to anyone but the player himself (and even that isn't a distinct L&R when you think of the total acoustical complexity of a piano). And as the player you're really only going to catch that most realistically with a pair of monitors right in front of you, similar to where the sound emanates from a real piano. Not gonna happen in any live setting unless you have separate personal monitors, which the audience will never hear anyway (or your facing away from the audience). Me, I'm infinitely more concerned with fullness of the sound than stereo separation; and I'd rather that everybody gets to enjoy that full sound as much as me rather than just the people in the sweet spot between two speaker cabinets.

[Al Quinn]

Again I'm compelled to say (after reading the few messages above regarding zaj58's posts) I don't understand the idea of favoring an amp because it sounds better to the audience. If that characteristic is more important than an amp sounding great to you on stage and inspiring your playing, you & I are very different kinds of musicians.

Last time I checked, it's usually the people in the audience I'm playing to that are either directly or indirectly paying for me to play. The audience is the reason I'm there, otherwise I'd just stay home (and save a crapload of coin in live gear in the process). So yes, I want it to sound as good as possible to them, though not more so than it sounds to me. I don't think anybody wants an amp that sounds great to the audience and crappy to the performer, and that's absolutely not the case with the SS3. It takes a little more work to get it there for everybody than with more conventional sound systems; but once it's there, in most cases, it's a better sound for everybody.

 

+1

 

And I'd like to add that the band can hear me much better when I use the SS. When playing music that's interactive this is so so important. When we can all hear each other well better music is created. This is good for me, the audience, and the band.

[Doug Robinson]

You know, things like "you have to get some distance on it for it to sound its best" are really just about learning how to get the most out of your gear. If you stand too close to an 80" HD TV it won't look its best either.

 

The problem is that on gigs we don't always have the luxury of putting it in the ultimate location, so there is sometimes a bit of tweaking. I'm not sure how this is different from positioning stereo monitors in the right spot for the space, but regardless--last night was one of those occasions for me. I was backed up against a ledge and the only usable space for my SS3 was to my immediate left. I wanted to use my amp stand so I laid the amp on its side, speaker firing downward as I am used to. I pushed it as far from me as possible, which was less than 8", angled the front speaker slightly away from me. All night long, I basically heard the back of the side-firing speaker with the rest blended in and it was actually cool--I played at a lower volume than usual (resulting in lower volume from everyone else which we all agreed was better for that space), and the physical feedback I got from my playing was immediate, much like having a Leslie cab right next to me.

 

Really no problem, once I figured it out. If I'd had a front firing amp only, I would have had to decide between aiming it at me and the band in that space, or mostly away from us and I wouldn't have been able to hear myself as well.

 

I also could lean my left elbow on the amp and look cool

[Bossbandbob]

I know someone posted this once in Season 6, but I just thought I'd pipe in with an endorsement of the Onstage RS4000 as a good option for propping the SS3 sideways. It keeps the amp close to the floor for good bass coupling, folds small enough to fit in an equipment bag or outside pocket of a keyboard case, and the price is more than right.

 

Onstage RS4000

 

http://i850.photobucket.com/albums/ab67/mathofinsects/446311_med_zps8cd1celh.jpg

 

 

I ordered this from SW Thurs, selecting the free delivery option. Arrived at my house Friday morning, gigged with the SS sideways on this stand Sat. night on another crowded stage. Amp was about 5 ft. from me, in back slightly to the left. I was stage right again. Best band mix yet!The band and I all could hear me great. Organ on top octaves of VR-09 was not as ear piercing at high volumes as when the amp was straight up but was very clearly heard. EP's sounded great. AP sounded a bit harsh with just me and the SS at high volumes during set up but later meshed with the band (Tom Petty Tribute) beautifully! As a matter of fact this was the best I have ever been able to hear myself play in a band situation. It definitely makes the gig more relaxing and more enjoyable when you can hear what you are playing and know that the audience can as well!

[JPerry]

Another gig report - did a local fundraiser auction last night - medium sized hall with a nice roomy stage. This was the first time I had tried setting up the SS horizontally using a Gator stand (discussed many chapters ago). I also tried it just sitting on the floor vertically to compare - and for this venue anyway I am a convert to the horizontal approach. Nice reflection of the side speaker from the hardwood stage floor, consistent and even sound for the rest of the band. (Jazz quartet with piano, bass, drums and saxophone) 90 percent AP, 10 percent EP - both sounded great.

The band was hired as background to the auction and there was a lot of room noise to compete with. I think the SS could have done the job on its own but to keep the stage volume reasonable I used the line out to put a little piano in the mains as well.

I am one of those who initially thought I might need a subwoofer or bass amp to use in conjunction with the SS, but I never once thought it was lacking in bottom end. Solo piano might be different, but with a bass player on the gig there is absolutely no need for a sub. So great to just unplug from one compact box and throw it in the trunk when the gig is over! Thumbs up.

[Danny Linguini]

I am one of those who initially thought I might need a subwoofer or bass amp to use in conjunction with the SS, but I never once thought it was lacking in bottom end. Solo piano might be different, but with a bass player on the gig there is absolutely no need for a sub. So great to just unplug from one compact box and throw it in the trunk when the gig is over! Thumbs up.

Playing with a band, or even just solo piano, I probably wouldn't need the sub, either. But with the drum machine in my rig, the kick drum is just a little bit much for the SS3 alone. This little box really does put out nicely all by itself, though.

[hardware]

The best night I had was last weekend.

I had a small table in the corner jammed into the back corner of the stage.

Took 2 lids from my rack and used them as reflectors.

 

So I apologise to the geeks who advised this a hundred twenty pages back I called scientists.

They are right.

 

As we speak I am designing a triangular hinged set of wings made of spare redwood to sit on an quick lock monitor stand.

 

Yes it was that good.

 

FOH agreed about shrinking the dispersion to a more focused projection.

[JPerry]

sleepngbear - yes I could see needing a sub if you were using a drum machine or kicking bass all night. I still might pick up a used bass amp for fun.

[DanL]

I used my SS3 last weekend in a venue I normally use IEM's for. The only complaint I have is it just can't handle bass sounds that well. We do Uptown Funk and I have a bass vocal sound I used for the intro, and that low D just sounds like a puff of air. Not worth carrying a sub for that as I'm in the PA, and everything else sounds great thru the amp.

[m-organ]

Here is a funny shot from the Rocky Horror Show I just finished music directing. This is during the bows, when they shine a spotlight back there on the band.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag222/coralrama/Screen-Shot-2015-11-03-at-10.51_zpszlboxunv.jpg

[Doerfler]

@ m-organ

 

Nice gig rig!

[16251]

Here is a funny shot from the Rocky Horror Show I just finished music directing. This is during the bows, when they shine a spotlight back there on the band.

http://i1369.photobucket.com/albums/ag222/coralrama/Screen-Shot-2015-11-03-at-10.51_zpszlboxunv.jpg

 

Looks like they are praying to the SSv.3

[Bossbandbob]

I used my SS3 last weekend in a venue I normally use IEM's for. The only complaint I have is it just can't handle bass sounds that well. We do Uptown Funk and I have a bass vocal sound I used for the intro, and that low D just sounds like a puff of air. Not worth carrying a sub for that as I'm in the PA, and everything else sounds great thru the amp.

 

OK so that explains why I can't hear the low Cello part I play in Petty's "Don't Come Around Here No More" when using the SS.

Same thing.. not worth buying or hauling a bass component for just one song. Line out to PA sounds like a good idea for that one.

[Danny Linguini]

I used my SS3 last weekend in a venue I normally use IEM's for. The only complaint I have is it just can't handle bass sounds that well. We do Uptown Funk and I have a bass vocal sound I used for the intro, and that low D just sounds like a puff of air. Not worth carrying a sub for that as I'm in the PA, and everything else sounds great thru the amp.

 

OK so that explains why I can't hear the low Cello part I play in Petty's "Don't Come Around Here No More" when using the SS.

Same thing.. not worth buying or hauling a bass component for just one song. Line out to PA sounds like a good idea for that one.

 

This kinda surprises me, because cello should be well above the low frequency that the SS3 falls off at. Are you sure it isn't that you just have a mono patch that has no sideways 'blossom', so you don't hear at lit as well as other keyboard patches?

[Ledbetter]

The 100 MHz drop off is an octave and a half below Middle C.

[MotiDave]

The 100 MHz drop off is an octave and a half below Middle C.

 

is 100 Hz a measured inflection point/dropoff for ss3, or is that a swag? I've never seen a frequency response curve for the lil monster from the valley.

 

100 Hz sounds very low for a cello but I don't play cello so ... ?

[rockinredeye]

Didn't I read somewhere that the roll off for the SS3 is 3db per octave, starting at 100Hz? I have used my SS2 on some resonant stages that augmented the bass response considerably. Didn't sound like much of a roll off there.

 

Ledbetter is right. By the time you get to the lowest A on piano, bass response has rolled off by (only) 6db. Cello plays to C2, 65 Hz. I found a chart on the interwebs, so it must be true.

[Bossbandbob]

Sorry I was not more clear on that. As I play that part on the Vr-09 which does not have an actual Cello patch, I have been playing the "Cello part" on the bass side of the VR-09 (using the lowest A available) with a synth strings (2) patch, which at practice using an Alto 12' woofer powered speaker sounded fine. Maybe I need to experiment with some other patches for that on the VR for the SS or make a split on the PX-5s which has more strings choices. At least I think it is a Cello on that part of that song which had a lot of synth overdubbing on the original. It is the "Give it up, STOP" section I'm referring to. Ending this weekend, the band has played 5 straight weekends so the gig rig has not even come out of the cases during the week as I'm using other gear for home practice and we haven't needed band practice..

[Bill Spencer]

I, like many of you, am considering a second box to augment the low end of the SS3. I've looked at small powered subs and can't find one small enough. It needs to be no bigger than the SS's footprint, in at least one dimension, so 12" or so. I noticed the bass player last night had a small Gallien-Krueger Bass amp- he said it's a 150w 10", but I can only find 12" that looked like his, with the controls on the front. Any experience with these or any other tiny bass amp? it is worth investigating, or is something that small just not going to help enough?

 

Note that only one dimension needs to be less than 12, so even a 12" bass combo amp would work, if it's shallow, like his GK is.

 

Thanks