Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[drawback]

The video seems to show the CPS being laid on the amp stand with the magnet side down. I have been doing the opposite.

 

Bernie

 

Depends on the environment. The idea is to have the side speaker aiming at the most reflective surface available. So on a carpeted stage you'll want to point the side speaker facing up toward the ceiling, into a corner or toward a back wall; on a wood/concrete or similarly reflective stage surface, aim the speaker down.

 

 

[Bernie9]

Thanks for the reply. I always have a reflective underneath, so I am okay.

[Aspen]

The video seems to show the CPS being laid on the amp stand with the magnet side down. I have been doing the opposite.

 

Bernie

 

Depends on the environment. The idea is to have the side speaker aiming at the most reflective surface available. So on a carpeted stage you'll want to point the side speaker facing up toward the ceiling, into a corner or toward a back wall; on a wood/concrete or similarly reflective stage surface, aim the speaker down.

 

Yes, Drawback is spot on here, excellent observation (proving someone has been reading this thread!).

 

In retrospect perhaps I should have shown it both ways in the video, and mentioned that. Frankly, I don't stage or write these videos, I kinda wing it (drives Brian crazy). So as I set it up the cables were running stage left. So the natural way to place it on it's side, and later on the the stand, was magnet down in this demo. While it is true there are some differences in frequency response depending on which way the Side speaker is pointing (but very little difference in "energy"), it is not as much as you may imagine.

 

The SS3 side speaker design is far more balanced front to back than you might expect, and much more so than other conventional speaker designs. It is also arranged in an "open baffle board" design which is more neutral front to back, and finally...it was computer modeled to compensate for all that.

 

Additionally, the specially designed Eminence 6.5" speaker we chose has a 1" exit hole straight through to the voice coil (with a small screen to keep dust and debris out), and so it has an exceptionally good HF response off the rear as compared to other speakers. This "vented voice coil" magnet design also allows for higher power handling as it dissipates heat from the voice coil, which was the original intent of the design. It just worked our for us to be a happy accident that this vent allows foe some pretty good rear side HF response too!

[MathOfInsects]

I've been a bit skeptical of the sideways orientation. Logic says it will take that many more reflections to find a side wall and create the same immersive sound, which means losing energy along the way. Plus I don't feel like carting along anything additional (amp stand).

 

Anyway, I tried it at a rehearsal last week, since there was a spare amp stand, and I was closer to the SS than I wanted to be. Nice. It (indeed) softens the edges a bit on the fully bloomed sound, but it also warms the mids up, which (IMO) they benefit from. Overall I did feel I got a better than usual sense of the "real" sound of the box at the keys. Plus I didn't mind not having to worry that I was slicing anyone's scalp off with the side-firing signal. I'd do it again any time.

[cedar]

If I finally follow through and get a sub to pair with the SS, would I still want a stand? I'm assuming/hoping that the SS would be sitting atop the sub. I guess a stand could still be used, but that seems awkward.

[MathOfInsects]

If I finally follow through and get a sub to pair with the SS, would I still want a stand? I'm assuming/hoping that the SS would be sitting atop the sub. I guess a stand could still be used, but that seems awkward.

 

People seem to go through a fairly predictable path with this amp, and it's just like a relationship. First there's the Holy Shit stage, where you plug it in and the sound blows your pot-fogged mind. Then there's the Gotta Have More stage, where, because you can suddenly hear your sound so well, you can also hear what you're NOT hearing. (i.e., low end). So everyone goes out and buys a sub. Mixer too, to help with the other parts of the spectrum. Then there's the Honeymoon Is Over stage, where you start to notice little things that annoy you about the box. (For me, a big one is that the sound you're adjusting is not the sound other people are hearing.) Then finally, there's the Long-Term Commitment stage, where you realize that for this thing to work for you, you're going to have to get real about it. Most people stop bringing their sub at that point. Who wants to deal with a second box, when you just bought a tiny amp to use as your first one? Some try the sideways thing, to help with the "late-bloomer" issue. I've been doing more and more gigs without a mixer in the signal chain, whenever possible. Anything I can do to cut down cartage and set-up time, I tend to do.

 

So my answer to your amp-stand + sub question is...just wait it out. You're in the Gotta Have More stage. There is likely to come a time when the sub leaves the building, and then you're free to set the SS3 up however you'd like. It's the gear-based equivalent to the stage in your marriage when you figure you might as well get fat and keep those pizza crumbs on your shirt in case you get hungry for a snack later.

[cedar]

First of all, I enjoyed your "4 stages of SS ownership" analysis.

 

One thing you said caught my attention.

 

I've been doing more and more gigs without a mixer in the signal chain, whenever possible. Anything I can

do to cut down cartage and set-up time, I tend to do.

 

Recently, I've been using just one keyboard (Mojo) through the SS, but was using a small Yamaha mixer anyway. Somewhere along the line, I got the impression that a mixer can help enhance the signal.

 

Couple of days ago, I ditched the mixer and thought that the overall sound was a bit weaker/less full. I wonder if the mixer was the cause. It could be that I was just in a different room, with different (and somewhat louder) musicians.

[MathOfInsects]

The mixer does send cleaner gain to the SS3. And it's highly advantageous to be able to adjust stage levels independent of FOH.

 

I just sometimes decide that I can't be bothered with it. The downside is that you have to set a good stage level and then leave it. Not ideal. Upside, though, is supreme ease of set-up. One keyboard into the other (a single stereo cable for mine), LR to SS3, sub out to FOH.

 

Depends on the gig, of course. But the point is that I never used to free-ball like this when I first got the SS3. I always put a mixer in the signal path. Now...downgraded to "usually."

 

[Doug Robinson]

You just referred to the four stages of SS3 ownership--i hadn't seen anyone post theirs, but I'd been thinking about posting mine so here goes:

 

1. Yay! Got it and now I have to build a trifold to put behind it;

2. Trifold sounded good but a pain in the ass, now I'm just going to use it with a small bass amp or a sub;

3. Really don't need the sub or bass amp, but man it sounds great on the amp stand with the side speaker firing downward;

4. See #3

[Jazzmammal]

It's amazing how we all (especially me) just love to geek out about this stuff. We pick it apart mercilessly, oh, the treble isn't quite right, the bass isn't quite right, it's muddy, it doesn't have enough bottom, the side speaker is killing the drummers ears, the "bloom" isn't where I can hear it etc, etc.

 

Then we start with the changes, try this, try that blah blah but through it all we keep hearing from other players and people in various audiences how killer we sound. "I've never heard you sound that good before, is that your new amp? It's great!"

 

Once you've passed ahem "a certain age" done so many gigs you've lost count years ago, unless it's really something special you go, screw it, it's good enough by itself.

 

It's like me with my pretty cool wooden case I built for my SK1 and FA06. I set it all up, created a pedal board and a cable snake, got it so I can put the whole thing up in 20-30 minutes yet for the last few gigs in smaller places where absolutely nobody gives a flying crap except me, I just took the SK1 and the SS. Yes, playing my rig like a double manual organ is cool and all but...

 

Bob

[Doug Robinson]

Right on, though the 'side speaker is killing my drummer's ears' was an issue that didn't just resolve itself--it's why I still use it on a stand on its side.

[drawback]

Sorry to break it to you, Math, but my relationship with Relationship V.3 is about the same as with Spacestation V.3.

 

Still blooming.

 

 

[MathOfInsects]

I'm only on Marriage V.2. Maybe the next one will be the game-changer.

[HammondDave]

If I finally follow through and get a sub to pair with the SS, would I still want a stand? I'm assuming/hoping that the SS would be sitting atop the sub. I guess a stand could still be used, but that seems awkward.

 

People seem to go through a fairly predictable path with this amp, and it's just like a relationship. First there's the Holy Shit stage, where you plug it in and the sound blows your pot-fogged mind. Then there's the Gotta Have More stage, where, because you can suddenly hear your sound so well, you can also hear what you're NOT hearing. (i.e., low end). So everyone goes out and buys a sub. Mixer too, to help with the other parts of the spectrum. Then there's the Honeymoon Is Over stage, where you start to notice little things that annoy you about the box. (For me, a big one is that the sound you're adjusting is not the sound other people are hearing.) Then finally, there's the Long-Term Commitment stage, where you realize that for this thing to work for you, you're going to have to get real about it. Most people stop bringing their sub at that point. Who wants to deal with a second box, when you just bought a tiny amp to use as your first one? Some try the sideways thing, to help with the "late-bloomer" issue. I've been doing more and more gigs without a mixer in the signal chain, whenever possible. Anything I can do to cut down cartage and set-up time, I tend to do.

 

So my answer to your amp-stand + sub question is...just wait it out. You're in the Gotta Have More stage. There is likely to come a time when the sub leaves the building, and then you're free to set the SS3 up however you'd like. It's the gear-based equivalent to the stage in your marriage when you figure you might as well get fat and keep those pizza crumbs on your shirt in case you get hungry for a snack later.

 

I love this post! Maybe the funniest one I have read in years.

[Raymb1]

I've been a bit skeptical of the sideways orientation. Logic says it will take that many more reflections to find a side wall and create the same immersive sound, which means losing energy along the way. Plus I don't feel like carting along anything additional (amp stand).

 

Anyway, I tried it at a rehearsal last week, since there was a spare amp stand, and I was closer to the SS than I wanted to be. Nice. It (indeed) softens the edges a bit on the fully bloomed sound, but it also warms the mids up, which (IMO) they benefit from. Overall I did feel I got a better than usual sense of the "real" sound of the box at the keys. Plus I didn't mind not having to worry that I was slicing anyone's scalp off with the side-firing signal. I'd do it again any time.

 

+1 I use it sideways also. The sound is great. The only thing I have to worry about is the volume. The SS is louder than I think it is.

[MathOfInsects]

I love this post! Maybe the funniest one I have read in years.

 

Thanks. But don't encourage me, I'll just squander my potential.

[Aspen]

Count me +1 w/ Hammond Dave, you guys in "rare forum" tonight...I am having way too much fun reading these latest chapters.

 

I think it is true that you can use just the SS3 and a KB for many of those smaller gigs, but no doubt the gain management of a mixer between adds more headroom...I remain a fan of using a small mixer w/ just a touch of Hall Reverb on almost all the patches....unless of course your gig IS a Hall....

 

 

[Brettymike]

If I finally follow through and get a sub to pair with the SS, would I still want a stand? I'm assuming/hoping that the SS would be sitting atop the sub. I guess a stand could still be used, but that seems awkward.

 

People seem to go through a fairly predictable path with this amp, and it's just like a relationship. First there's the Holy Shit stage, where you plug it in and the sound blows your pot-fogged mind. Then there's the Gotta Have More stage, where, because you can suddenly hear your sound so well, you can also hear what you're NOT hearing. (i.e., low end). So everyone goes out and buys a sub. Mixer too, to help with the other parts of the spectrum. Then there's the Honeymoon Is Over stage, where you start to notice little things that annoy you about the box. (For me, a big one is that the sound you're adjusting is not the sound other people are hearing.) Then finally, there's the Long-Term Commitment stage, where you realize that for this thing to work for you, you're going to have to get real about it. Most people stop bringing their sub at that point. Who wants to deal with a second box, when you just bought a tiny amp to use as your first one? Some try the sideways thing, to help with the "late-bloomer" issue. I've been doing more and more gigs without a mixer in the signal chain, whenever possible. Anything I can do to cut down cartage and set-up time, I tend to do.

 

So my answer to your amp-stand + sub question is...just wait it out. You're in the Gotta Have More stage. There is likely to come a time when the sub leaves the building, and then you're free to set the SS3 up however you'd like. It's the gear-based equivalent to the stage in your marriage when you figure you might as well get fat and keep those pizza crumbs on your shirt in case you get hungry for a snack later.

 

I love this post! Maybe the funniest one I have read in years.

 

 

Ditto! LOL!! More please Insects

Brett

[Al Quinn]

If I finally follow through and get a sub to pair with the SS, would I still want a stand? I'm assuming/hoping that the SS would be sitting atop the sub. I guess a stand could still be used, but that seems awkward.

 

I only use the sub on jazz organ trio gigs where I'm playing LH bass. When I use the sub I place the SS on top of the sub -- no amp stand needed. Depending on the room and band setup I'll either place the SS vertical on the sub or horizontal. When I place it horizontal I use an otherwise unused sustain pedal that I have in my cable bag under the front of the SS to angle it up a bit which lets the SS side speaker reflect off the top of the sub.

[MotiDave]

If I finally follow through and get a sub to pair with the SS, would I still want a stand? I'm assuming/hoping that the SS would be sitting atop the sub. I guess a stand could still be used, but that seems awkward.

 

People seem to go through a fairly predictable path with this amp, and it's just like a relationship. First there's the Holy Shit stage, where you plug it in and the sound blows your pot-fogged mind. Then there's the Gotta Have More stage, where, because you can suddenly hear your sound so well, you can also hear what you're NOT hearing. (i.e., low end). So everyone goes out and buys a sub. Mixer too, to help with the other parts of the spectrum. Then there's the Honeymoon Is Over stage, where you start to notice little things that annoy you about the box. (For me, a big one is that the sound you're adjusting is not the sound other people are hearing.) Then finally, there's the Long-Term Commitment stage, where you realize that for this thing to work for you, you're going to have to get real about it. Most people stop bringing their sub at that point. Who wants to deal with a second box, when you just bought a tiny amp to use as your first one? Some try the sideways thing, to help with the "late-bloomer" issue. I've been doing more and more gigs without a mixer in the signal chain, whenever possible. Anything I can do to cut down cartage and set-up time, I tend to do.

 

So my answer to your amp-stand + sub question is...just wait it out. You're in the Gotta Have More stage. There is likely to come a time when the sub leaves the building, and then you're free to set the SS3 up however you'd like. It's the gear-based equivalent to the stage in your marriage when you figure you might as well get fat and keep those pizza crumbs on your shirt in case you get hungry for a snack later.

Epic!

[zaphod betamax]

As someone who plays synth and not keyboards such as organ or electric piano, but rather the Blofeld digital VA, I like to tweak my settings slightly differently.

1)Volume at 12 o'clock (as per recommended)

2)Side Speaker amount at 12 o'clock (as per recommended)

3)MF at Full

4) HF at Full.

 

This really brings out the 3D effect of sound effects and alien jets sounds, and really adds punch to Wavetable manipulations!

 

There is no other 3D amplifier that can touch the Centre Point Stereo amplifier. I think it should be called the CP3D though!

 

Mark Pigott

[RandyFF]

I need to upgrade my mixer to something like this:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/UB1222FXPRO

Something with 4 mic channels, 2 aux busses, fx, small size, under $200.

 

In researching I noticed this model has a unique effect:

Breathtaking XPQ 3D stereo surround effect for more vitality and enhanced stereo image.

Sounds like just the thing for the SS. Anyone use it with this amp?

 

[Aspen]

Hey all, a little CPS announcement as promised.

 

Over the past few years I had upgraded a bunch of locally owned SS Mk2 amps with some (or all) of the new components we developed for the SS v.3. This "upgrade" also adds two passive L-pad so the Mid and HF components can be dialed back, as we can do in the active x-over v.3 design. Michael Boddicker had a pair of these "MK2.3" for about a year while we were working on the v.3 and before we released it.

 

This upgrade really makes a noticible improvement. Truth be told, it was a MK2 owner who made this upgrade himself and brought it in for me to hear a few years ago, and when we A/B'd this to my stock Mk2 I was blown away. Frankly that visit convinced me to redesign the Spacestation MK2 and led to the current V.3 design.

 

d always been in my mind to offer this upgrade in a DIY kit for my many CPS Spacestation MK2 owners. Now as the dust has settled and I have raped up V.3 production and caught up all the back orders...I have finally got around to it!

 

There are 3 kits; The "A" kit has just the USA made Eminence CX2008 8" woofer and the 2 L-pads, the "B" kit adds the Eminence APT mid range driver, and the "C" kit adds to those a new Eminence 6.5 high power Side speaker.

 

I have posted the DYI instructions and prices on the CPS website, you can see these here.

 

I have always felt it was my duty to make available to my end users all the on going improvements to my products, when ever possible. This took quite a while but I finally got it done.

 

See it here: http://www.centerpointstereo.com/news.php

[b3plyr]

 

The mixer does send cleaner gain to the SS3. And it's highly advantageous to be able to adjust stage levels independent of FOH.

 

Higher gain, not cleaner.

[MathOfInsects]

The mixer does send cleaner gain to the SS3. And it's highly advantageous to be able to adjust stage levels independent of FOH.

 

Higher gain, not cleaner.

 

Nope.

 

[b3plyr]

The signal from the keys has a fixed SNR (signal to noise ratio). Simply adding gain does not improve the SNR-it simply increases the signal level. As Aspen said, you can help the dynamic range. The only way you might get a cleaner signal is using EQ to filter out some of the noise-not always easy. Depends on whether you have noise within band limited segment(s) or is truly broadband noise across the bandwidth of the instrument output.

[MathOfInsects]

Strike two.

[b3plyr]

Strike two.

 

Well, if you are going to call strikes, at least explain your position. However, let me clarify. My statement in terms of a single gain block, amp or mixer, is correct. The out put will have a fixed SNR for a given signal at a particular level. Simply adding gain does not improve the signal. For example, if you turned the SpaceStation output to max and then simply added gain, it would not be a cleaner signal. Unfortunately I was not addressing your example.

 

However, in your case, you are correct. If you distribute the gain to optimize the SNRs of each block, in this case the SpaceStation and the mixer, you could get a better signal. We do this all the time in designing multistage amplifiers. The trick is getting the optimal gain for each stage or block. In general, you put the most gain where the least noise is. You are quite correct that the signal chain is critical.

 

If you disagree with this, please educate me.

[Bill Spencer]

Just removed the apostrophe in the heading.

 

Whew. That feels better.

[cedar]

Whether it is because of "higher" or "cleaner" gain is not really important to me (though I admit to a bit of intellectual curiosity). I just was checking to see whether I was correct that the volume may at least seem louder when using a mixer (even with just one keyboard).

 

I think that there is agreement on this point, right, even if there is a debate whether this is due to a "higher" or "cleaner" gain?