Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[BornAgnMusician]

They make wall socket testers to check if they are wired correctly or if there is a problem with the ground. Go to Lowes or HomeDepot in the electrical section. I think every musician should have one to check what they are plugging into. I use one all the time.

[BornAgnMusician]

Has anybody else tried the upgrade kit?

[delmar]

I bought a ground lifter from Fred Meyer (spared no expense; 2 for 1.99), but after reading about ground lift on the net I'm scared to try it. Will my house blow up if I just try it to see if the hum goes away?

Yeah, I'd like a wall socket tester, but I've spent almost two grand in the last month on music gear. I still want a better mixer and a couple of pedals! I quit my job in August and have been living on some dough I had stashed away.

I need to be adopted by a rich Italian supermodel.

 

Edit: Curiosity got the best of me. This rig with no hum is amazing. Guess I'll have to spring for the Ebtech hum eliminator.

[Joe Muscara]

Your house won't blow up, but you might.

[BornAgnMusician]

A plug checker will tell you what the problem is. The hot and neutral side could be reversed. The ground could be loose. The plug checker will tell you. They aren't expensive. You might even be able to pick one up at walmart. Lifting the ground doesn't always work. Just talking from experience.

[MathOfInsects]

Ebtech fixes the wrong hum. You want the one from Bbtech.

[BornAgnMusician]

I tested stacking spacestations. It doesn't sound very good, even with a subwoofer. They sound better by themselves.

 

Does the bass amp idea work better than the subwoofer? Or are they about the same? I have an old M-Audio BX sub. It's about 240w. It seems like a subwoofer might go too low and create unrealistic artifactes. I see from all the other posts that some like the bass amp and some the subwoofer. Is it because of cost? I mostly just use it as is, on its side, or stacked on an ELX115. I think they work good together.

[BornAgnMusician]

As far as the MKII upgrade. I just changed what Aspen calls the midrange horn from the APT50 to a Selenium Titanium driver that I had stored away, and it sounds much cleaner and more live even at higher volumes. I never have been a real fan of phenolic tweeters. I changed them in my Traynor K4 and it made a big difference. Now I've done it to my old MKII. It sounds better than the version 3. I don't want to open up my version 3, but I'm tempted.

 

Has anybody else tried upgrading their MKII?

[JPerry]

I recently got a bass amp to use with my SS on duo gigs where I am holding up the bass line. Haven't tried the subwoofer approach, but the bass amp works well. I just run a line from the sub out and use the eq on the bass amp to kill the higher frequencies. You don't have the advantage of a crossover this way of course - the subwoofer approach might be cleaner, but I like the results with the amp very much. I'm using the same amp as timwat - a Gallien Krueger MB112. $200 off Craigslist.

 

[Bill Spencer]

I just did an experiment- sent two completely different signals to the Left and Right inputs of my SS3. I thought that the forward facing (M of the M-S setup) received only information that was common to L&R, so I expected that nothing would come out of the main speaker, but actually, the center carried an even mix of the two signals- sounded like simple L+R. Turning up the Width just added the "3D" effect.

 

Did I misunderstand the explanation of the SS3's use of M-S concept?

[Danny Linguini]

I tested stacking spacestations. It doesn't sound very good, even with a subwoofer. They sound better by themselves.

 

Does the bass amp idea work better than the subwoofer? Or are they about the same? I have an old M-Audio BX sub. It's about 240w. It seems like a subwoofer might go too low and create unrealistic artifactes. I see from all the other posts that some like the bass amp and some the subwoofer. Is it because of cost? I mostly just use it as is, on its side, or stacked on an ELX115. I think they work good together.

 

A sub won't necessarily go lower than a bass amp, it just will not produce any high frequencies -- usually no higher then 150 hz. A sub will only sound crappy if it's turned up too much louder than your main (or if it's just a shitty sub). I haven't used a bass amp myself, but I would guess that you'd want to eq out the highs going into it to emulate what a sub adds to the SS3. I do have the Seismic Audio really mini tremor that is perfect for my needs (CP4, drum machine and vocals, solo in small-medium venues), but a small bass amp might have worked just as well.

 

Edit: that Gallien Krueger MB112 Looks like an ideal supplement to the SS3. 220w should be plenty without worrying about overpowering the SS3. And can't argue with just 28lbs.

[jmolino]

Hi,

 

I'm looking for suggestions on the best way I might "Mic" my B3's 145 and get the best sound with my SSv3. My current mic'ing consists of 2 SM57s on the upper horns which are at a 45 degree in the corners of the back area of the leslie and a Beta 57a with a windshield on the rotor (both upper and lower panels's removed).

 

All 3 mic's are plugged into an A&H MixWizard 4. I currently have this chain:

 

Mixer L&R > SSv3, Separate "M" out to B1200D.

 

I'm unhappy with the sound (My HX3 sounds better than the Mic'd Leslie's do).

 

I'm not sure if it's my EQ'ing, or the sound chain itself. Here is a pic of my EQ settings (3&4 are horns, 5 is rotor): (Also I don't have a DI from the B3 yet).

 

Where I'm unhappy mostly is with my LHB sound...

 

http://www.888voip.com/downloads/MW4-Leslie.png

[Raymb1]

Got my Christmas present early. My wife got me a Casio PX 5s. Sounds great through the SSV3. Ray

[cphollis]

Sorry folks, this thread is not going to oblivion yet.

 

Played an interesting room today -- a school band rehearsal room. Tall ceiling, acoustically dampening carpet, and all sort of of sound panels on the room.

 

I was up against major guitar firepower, and I certainly held my own. Put the SSv3 on an amp stand (side-firing speaker facing down). Almost no EQ required, but did dial in a smoodge of reverb since the room was so dry.

 

Wished for a bit more bass presence, but not enough to haul a separate piece of gear. It's there if I want it; I just don't want it enough I guess.

 

Strange but true: I just don't bring other stuff along to gigs -- ore rehearsals -- anymore.

[Aspen]

I tested stacking spacestations. It doesn't sound very good, even with a subwoofer. They sound better by themselves.

 

Does the bass amp idea work better than the subwoofer? Or are they about the same? I have an old M-Audio BX sub. It's about 240w. It seems like a subwoofer might go too low and create unrealistic artifactes. I see from all the other posts that some like the bass amp and some the subwoofer. Is it because of cost? I mostly just use it as is, on its side, or stacked on an ELX115. I think they work good together.

 

My experience with using two SS3 stacked has also been underwhelming, although I have coached a few users in better ways to do that if you must (that was back in season 2, episode 4). Quickly on that, to review; space them WAY far apart. Best is front and rear of the room you are performing in...or in the case of a split room restaurant, using these 2 SS3 amps to cover those separated areas...and you can also better balance your levels that way, yet still preserve the 3D stereo effect.

 

The funny thing is, it's human nature to hear a good thing and just want "more", and of course when we are discussing stereo we THINK in duality. So naturally, the 2nd most commonly asked second question I get when demoing CPS for the first time is "wow, what would 2 of those sound like?". To which I reply, it is "less, not more". And then I describe in detail the "how and why" of CPS technology that revolves around providing a "center point source", and thereby curing all the historical evils of the conventional stereo speaker approach that produces a very small sweet spot, and far larger sour spot (unless you run them in mono, as we most often do).

 

(BTW, does anyone remember the Season 4 episode 2 contest for the "The 1st most commonly asked question" :>)

 

The simple beauty of Center Point Stereo is that it works best by itself, unless you want or need more "under 100Hz" support...then either a small (100wt+) sub or small bass combo might be very nice (but not often is one "necessary").

 

For example, I would almost never use a sub when doing a few vocals and acoustic guitars (a growing application I am noticing), just because there is not much happening under 100Hz in that situation...it just adds mud. Same for a solo KB/vocal in a small bar or club...you won't miss the sub at all. (the room being that small will multiply your sub harmonics with it's corner standing waves and you'll usually be just fine).

 

However, I usually would recommend using a sub (or small bass combo...that can also work great) in the case your KB is providing LHB for the band (especially when there IS no bass player), and/or you are playing a larger big room or outdoor gig competing with a dueling stacks of Marshall Metal Meanies.

 

I also use a powered sub when reinforcing large ensembles mixed thru a mixer and when I take the KB and/or bass player direct to mix w/ acoustic electric guitar and vocals. If you guys haven't tried this yet, you are missing something really cool.

 

FYI, I have done gigs with up to 12 inputs mixed into a single SS3+sub (3 vocals, 2 stereo guitars, bass, 2x stereo KBs) and with a live drum kit (not mic'd) and it sounded AMAZING. Imagine, leaving all that extra PA, monitor and amp gear home, along with the van. Plus the load in and set up is quick, and you hear exactly what you heard at rehearsal...the mixer can be tweaked for the acoustics of the room with a single EQ...and you have a master level for the band (club owner's dream come true...although with CPS stereo club owners rarely ask you to turn down, because CPS allows for easy listening and normal conversation levels at the bar and tables despite a potential of 105dB SPL...yet another unique CPS advantage).

 

This is a perfect solution when playing a smaller restaurant or venue with a band of 5 or more and limited stage area. I also get really great performances, probably because every player can hear the same big wide stereo mix (the SS3 is also serves as the perfect monitor), so it's easy to "mix" their own levels by ear and thereby "form the pocket" with every other player. It sounds like a studio recording and the players KNOW what the audience is hearing too.

 

BTW, can also give you a great live recording of the gig by adding just a small MS mic overhead the drummer to feed to your monitor mix that would feed your recording device. It sounds awesome, very tight and clear with little audience or room effect (read; unwanted echos) except from the single drum mic and the vocal mics which retain the "live feel".

 

Lastly to your comments about subs vs. small bass amp combos; While I heartily support the many who have had good success using a small bass combo instead of a powered sub, I must also say, that my preference and 1st recommendation would be a small sub over a bass amp. This is especially true if you are planning a second purchase, and don't already HAVE a nice small bass combo collecting dust (in which case, use what you have and save the $$, and anyway as many have noted here....you'll probably not need it on all your gigs or rehearsals anyway).

 

My reasoning is two fold; 1) because using a "sub 100Hz amp/speaker" there is less interference above 100HZ for the SS3 to clash with. That clash can degrade the 3D effect we all know and love, and 2) there just isn't much NEEDED above 100-125Hz...so even if I roll the bass amp off w/ it's tone controls you really don't need much level. ALso, if I compare what a small powered sub costs, with a decent small bass combo...the bass amp is usually 2 to 3 times more expensive...and you won't need or use any of it's control features...except the level.

 

In my early years, I did full band reinforcement gigs with just a Best Buy $100 Hi Fi Sony 100watt powered sub w/ an 8" speaker. It was just enough...and no possibility of being "too much", which can ruin a good performance (as many have mentioned...too much sub can really suck!)

 

Sometimes, less is more...as with bass solos (apologies to Jaco).

[wineandkeyz]

I never have been a real fan of phenolic tweeters. I changed them in my Traynor K4 and it made a big difference.

 

Not to derail the thread, BornAgnMusician, but can you tell me what components you used to replace the phenolic tweeters in your K4? I'm thinking of doing the same to mine.

[BornAgnMusician]

I used these. http://www.parts-express.com/tymphany-h25tg05-08-1-titanium-dome-tweeter-with-waveguide-8-ohm--264-1381

They were not a direct size replacement. They were the closest I could find.

[BornAgnMusician]

So I guess nobody has upgraded their MKII. Aspen, how many of the MkII did you make?

[BornAgnMusician]

Aspen, thank you for the information. I read all that (I read the whole 146 pages). I'm just one that likes to experiment. Like I said, I was able to make it work with good success with an Electrovoice ELX115. I did notice a little loss of the stereo effect, but it sure livened up the ELX. I was using a graphics EQ to help the ELX, but when I put the spacestation version 3 on top I no longer needed the EQ. It's a strange thing.

[wineandkeyz]

I used these. http://www.parts-express.com/tymphany-h25tg05-08-1-titanium-dome-tweeter-with-waveguide-8-ohm--264-1381

They were not a direct size replacement. They were the closest I could find.

 

Thanks!

[BornAgnMusician]

FYI, I have done gigs with up to 12 inputs mixed into a single SS3+sub (3 vocals, 2 stereo guitars, bass, 2x stereo KBs) and with a live drum kit (not mic'd) and it sounded AMAZING. Imagine, leaving all that extra PA, monitor and amp gear home, along with the van. Plus the load in and set up is quick, and you hear exactly what you heard at rehearsal...the mixer can be tweaked for the acoustics of the room with a single EQ...and you have a master level for the band (club owner's dream come true...although with CPS stereo club owners rarely ask you to turn down, because CPS allows for easy listening and normal conversation levels at the bar and tables despite a potential of 105dB SPL...yet another unique CPS advantage).

 

That's nice if you can get the band to cooperate. That's not my situation. People are afraid of things they don't understand. They would rather have a blaring monitor that is almost at feedback than try something new. I think stage levels don't need to be so loud. The spacestation could help.

[Aspen]

So I guess nobody has upgraded their MKII. Aspen, how many of the MkII did you make?

 

Well we just got this upgrade kit going recently so I guess we've sold maybe 5 total MK2 upgrade kits so far. I think they have all been the full C kit w/ 3 main drivers replaced and the 2 L-pads....everyone seemed very happy.

 

But this is really for the DIY crowd, it's not for everybody. Also not something I am doing as a "business model", so I am not really "pushing it". It's just available to those who have an interest in modernizing their CPS amp with our new custom made drivers without having to buy a new SS3.

 

Also, I believe it is my personal responsibility to support a former Groove Tubes or current Aspen Pittman Designs customer as long as I draw breath, and no matter how long ago they purchased my design.

 

To your question of "how many" MK2 amps, I am really not sure. Unfortunately, all my production journals went to Fender when I sold GT back in '08. I recall we did 2 or 3 runs of 100 amps, then one last run up to 200. So, maybe 500 tops.

 

That last run went to Fender and mostly arrived after the sale. Since they had no plans to continue with the Spacestation, these were blown out below cost...I think many here may have bought them as low as $200 in that close out sale. So, spending another $200 to upgrade these older MK2 amps to a SS3 component level is actually not a bad deal in the end.

 

Of course that bad ending for the MK2 put a marketing challenge on me when I reintroduced the v.3, even 7 years later. But because of my single US dealer partner business model and no marketing expense (I am APD's only employee, and we do not advertise!), that keeps the street price much lower and gives a better value to the customer.

 

The good news is; the new Spacestation is doing VERY well. It is one of the best selling KB ever at Sweetwater (my only dealer outlet in the US, other than our website), and I am happy to report that we've made far more SS3 amps already in just these 12 months since it's release by many times than we ever sold MK2 amps.

 

Then also as you have witnessed, this mega thread here recently passing the "Million Views" threshold with 100s of positive gig reports from my early adopters here (THANK YOU ALL!) is really unprecedented for any amp, much less a keyboard amp!

 

Without today's web based forums like this, and my extremely cool dealer partners like Chuck Surack over at Sweetwater here in the US, and Hans Thomann from Thomann Music Haus in Germany who supplies all of Europe direct, and at comparable prices to our US MAP, this CPS "little big" amp would never have been.

 

So I am am more than happy, and very grateful this Christmas season. Many thanks again to all my SS3 user and dealer partners!

 

[Aspen]

I have an exciting announcement; I am "turning Japanese, I really think so". (apologies to the "other DB")

 

We have just shipped our first stocking order to our new Dealer Partner in Japan!

 

They are Sound House Music, and they are the "Sweetwater of Japan"; a single large location in Tokyo but a larger internet business presence that features a vast inventory of the coolest stuff and super savvy customer support throughout the country.

 

See the Google English translation of their website: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.soundhouse.co.jp/&prev=search

 

Selling in Japan is complicated. They have their own "UL" and stringent testing requirements...it is an lengthy and expensive process, and also we have to make a special "Japan only" power transformer to sell there. All this took me over a year to put in place, before I could even send a sample!

 

This complex challenge is largely due to Japanese AC wall voltage; AC current in Japan is 100VAC, with "Alternating Current" frequencies of 50Hz (in the West) and 6oHz (in the East).

 

FYI The US also had these 2 different AC distribution frequencies before it was finally standardized nationwide @ 60Hz in 1948 (So Cal Edison was the last hold out for 50Hz!).

 

But now the certification drama is over, and the CPS SS3 amps are on a container heading to Japan as I write this. So, "domo arigatou" to our newest Dealer Partner Sound House!

 

Now, on to the rest of the world; my next targets to find "Mr. Right" dealer partner (note; NOT a distributor who sells to dealers and thereby nearly doubles the street prices) are Australia, New Zealand, and Canada...where we already have dozens of SS3 users who bought directly from my A&A website or Sweetwater Sound.

 

FYI, we are currently "under consideration" at Long and McQuade in Canada, so I am hopeful we can start to supply Canada locally (call your store managers there!!). But sadly, I have no prospects "Down Under", yet. Hopefully we'll find a match at NAMM show next month.

 

If anyone is reading this from those countries, I would greatly appreciate any tips and/or help you could provide to that end...I want every musician on the world to have the opportunity to hear Center Point Stereo.

[Dave Bryce]

Played a gig with a new drummer last night. The brother would not stop talking about the SS - said he didn't remember the last time he had heard a keyboard player's parts so clearly, and couldn't believe how small it was considering how much sound it produced.

 

I am reminded every time I play out with mine how much I love it.

 

dB

[Al Quinn]

I filled in with a blues band last week that I hadn't played with in about a year. It was the first time they heard the SS V3. I received a lot of unsolicited positive feedback and questions regarding the sound of the amp. The guitarist and harmonica player each say they're going to buy one. Also, another keyboard player sat in for the few tunes which gave me a chance to hear it from the audience perspective. Wow, very impressive!

[drawback]

FYI, we are currently "under consideration" at Long and McQuade in Canada, so I am hopeful we can start to supply Canada locally (call your store managers there!!).

 

Aspen, the manager from the North Vancouver store heard mine when we did a gig together a few months ago. I'll certainly let him know you're talking to head office. Maybe one of their own voices chiming in will help Toronto "consider."

 

 

[Electro Fan]

Getting very close in pulling the trigger. I was surprised to find out that the price had increased by $20 since the last time I was on Sweetwater's site. Not a barrier to buying, but should have ordered a few weeks ago.

 

Bill

[Dave Bryce]

Getting very close in pulling the trigger. I was surprised to find out that the price had increased by $20 since the last time I was on Sweetwater's site. Not a barrier to buying, but should have ordered a few weeks ago.

It didn't exactly increase by $20 so much as that now the $39.99 cover is no longer an option.

 

dB

[Electro Fan]

Dave,

 

Thanks for clarifying. I now see this special pricing for the speaker and cover on Aspen's website, but I could not find any info about the cover being included on the Sweetwater page.

[hardware]

Happy for you Aspen.

 

Seems the Asian market is ripe for quality innovation.

You'd be surprised how many high end IEMs are sold there. Equal to the US Market on over 1k models.

 

Also anyone that has an analog synth using discrete audio will be quite happy with the sound of Eurorack or rackmounted Studio Electronics Code Omega or SE-1X.

Way too much low end on stereo cabs.

SSv3s Emminece 8 is tight.

The precision of discrete audio with that speaker is incredible.

 

You should let these Eurorack guys know about this.

I'm telling them.

Can't see buying stereo cabs after using this all year.

Each venue is always a pleasure.