BornAgnMusician

I've been using my SSv.3 on top of an ELX115 for almost a year. I agree it sounds better than the SS or the ELX by themselves. Everybody was talking about subs, but someone started talking about using a bass amp, so I thought 'how about on top of a powered speaker'. I tried it with crossovers and without. I like it best without. I also use a mixer to balance the levels between the two.

Hey Aspen, The SS v.3 subject is now on the Korg forums site for the Pa4X. All the usual questions. All the audio engineers come out with their opinions. People that actually use the SSv.3 with the Korg Pa4X are happy with it including me.

Worth -- I also use arrange keyboards from time to time. I have also found it hard to mix the accompaniment to sound good without a sub. I also tried using a full range powered speaker connected to the subout of the SS. It in someway sounded better than with the sub. I haven't tried it with a powered studio monitor but it might work especially if it's at low volume. I'm talking about something with maybe a 6 1/2 inch bass speaker. I bet it would sound pretty good. I've found not much bass is needed to round out the sound of the SS to make it sound good with an arranger. The Korg PA series is pretty awesome isn't it?

So you used L-R (differential amp) for the side speaker and desired the two sources to be out of phase to enhance a separation between front and side sound sources to create a 3-D effect. Am I close? Well it sure sounds real. I've found that it is easier to EQ any keyboard I have in any room with the SS. I was never really happy with the sound of my keyboards when playing live. I would have to spend a huge amount of time EQing my setup trying to eliminate the peaks of different frequencies. Now I just set everything close to 0 (I use a mixer and graphic EQ). Most of my adjustments are for taste and not to get rid of irritating peaks. It really is amazing.

Aspen -- I am sure you tried using two speakers (in phase) for the L-R part of the design. What happened? And why did you go with just one speaker (not talking about cost which is an obvious)? It's the engineering side of me that is curious. (I used to be an electronic/aerospace engineer.)

Ha, Ha, Ha !!!! That is so true.

I've also found a mixer helps with the overall sound quality of any keyboard amp or powered speaker. Never leave home without it.

Aspen -- I've heard on other blogs taking two monitors and facing them at each other sort of creates the effect of SS. It doesn't seem to ring true. The SS speakers are at 90 degrees to each other and the side speaker is L - R. The front of the side speaker is in phase and the back of the side is out of phase. The complexities happening are like trying to map the reverberations at each frequency against each wall over a 30 second time period. Definitely a chaotic equation. It seems the sound of two speakers facing each other would only push two in phase sound fronts at each other creating a directional figure eight pattern.

I told you I've tried the eminence coax speakers and they don't put out much bass no matter what the size. Parts express has 8 inch coax speakers that are better on the bass but they are pricey. My main point was the SS is about as good as it gets for its size. You are not going to find anything better -- this small. So if you can't find the space to add a small subwoofer. Good luck.

I don't know your confidence level with changing the internal speaker configuration. That is probably your only option to keeping the small size, sound quality, and increase in bass. If you are, go to parts express and look at the higher quality/price components. This is only a suggestion.

You are not going to find anything small like the spacestation that sounds as good. So if space is the issue.....it's gooding to a long road of experimentation. I'm also a guy who uses arranger keyboards and I sympathize. I have a Traynor k4 and I had to do a lot of modifications to make it sound really good for the arranger setup. Also I have to use a mixer with it to drive the input hard enough to get the volume I need. It is also twice the weight and size of the spacestation. I've tried many stereo speaker setups which always require much more setup time, size and weight. I finally settled for a small subwoofer (which is what the bass amp ends up being) because the SS doesn't really need a big sub to accomplish the bass issue. I'm using one that was meant to be used with small studio monitor speakers and it works great. There is very little more to set up the SS with a small subwoofer. There is a sub-out on the SS that goes to the input of the a sub, a power cord to the sub and you are up and running. I've experimented over a lot of years with coaxial speakers and specifically with the Eminence line and even the 12" doesn't put out much bass. The 8" Eminence is what is used in the SS.

I use a M-Audio BX sub. I think it works great. I use a Harrison Labs PFMod passive crossover between my keyboards and the SS+Sub. I set them up to cross at 100Hz as Aspen suggested. I get a much higher level of volume before funny noises start showing up. I've found if I'm only playing piano or organ with no real bass, no crossover is needed. But I set up with the crossover all the time anyway. It provides me more consistency in what I'm hearing.

By the way, I've found that the most objectionable noises coming from the Spacestation when trying to run too much bass thru it comes from the small bass reflex port on the front just behind the grill. I haven't noticed it from any connectors on the back.

I purchased this device which is a passive crossover used at the inputs of both the Spacestation and the subwoofer. It works beautifully. I purchased the double model which allows for many crossover points to both the highpass and lowpass filters.

Also can anyone tell me if the inputs are balanced (TRS)? One person on the first page of this thread lamented that they weren't, but the Keyboard review says they are. I can't find anything on the CPS site or Sweetwater. Aspen has mentioned it many times in this thread. They are TS. He says TRS is not better for the short lengths that are used from a keyboard to the amp or keyboard to mixer --- mixer to amp setup. I would have to agree. Balanced signals are only necessary for long lengths. If you have good shielded cables, TS is all any keyboard player really needs.

To your question of "how many" MK2 amps, I am really not sure. Unfortunately, all my production journals went to Fender when I sold GT back in '08. I recall we did 2 or 3 runs of 100 amps, then one last run up to 200. So, maybe 500 tops. Aspen, for my MKII what part of serial number says what unit I have. The last six digits are 347003.

Well we just got this upgrade kit going recently so I guess we've sold maybe 5 total MK2 upgrade kits so far. I think they have all been the full C kit w/ 3 main drivers replaced and the 2 L-pads....everyone seemed very happy. I had no idea so few MKII's were made. Too bad amps aren't like guitars. This is a short run product and with serial numbers. Ha ha

FYI, I have done gigs with up to 12 inputs mixed into a single SS3+sub (3 vocals, 2 stereo guitars, bass, 2x stereo KBs) and with a live drum kit (not mic'd) and it sounded AMAZING. Imagine, leaving all that extra PA, monitor and amp gear home, along with the van. Plus the load in and set up is quick, and you hear exactly what you heard at rehearsal...the mixer can be tweaked for the acoustics of the room with a single EQ...and you have a master level for the band (club owner's dream come true...although with CPS stereo club owners rarely ask you to turn down, because CPS allows for easy listening and normal conversation levels at the bar and tables despite a potential of 105dB SPL...yet another unique CPS advantage). That's nice if you can get the band to cooperate. That's not my situation. People are afraid of things they don't understand. They would rather have a blaring monitor that is almost at feedback than try something new. I think stage levels don't need to be so loud. The spacestation could help.

Aspen, thank you for the information. I read all that (I read the whole 146 pages). I'm just one that likes to experiment. Like I said, I was able to make it work with good success with an Electrovoice ELX115. I did notice a little loss of the stereo effect, but it sure livened up the ELX. I was using a graphics EQ to help the ELX, but when I put the spacestation version 3 on top I no longer needed the EQ. It's a strange thing.

So I guess nobody has upgraded their MKII. Aspen, how many of the MkII did you make?

I used these. http://www.parts-express.com/tymphany-h25tg05-08-1-titanium-dome-tweeter-with-waveguide-8-ohm--264-1381 They were not a direct size replacement. They were the closest I could find.

As far as the MKII upgrade. I just changed what Aspen calls the midrange horn from the APT50 to a Selenium Titanium driver that I had stored away, and it sounds much cleaner and more live even at higher volumes. I never have been a real fan of phenolic tweeters. I changed them in my Traynor K4 and it made a big difference. Now I've done it to my old MKII. It sounds better than the version 3. I don't want to open up my version 3, but I'm tempted. Has anybody else tried upgrading their MKII?

I tested stacking spacestations. It doesn't sound very good, even with a subwoofer. They sound better by themselves. Does the bass amp idea work better than the subwoofer? Or are they about the same? I have an old M-Audio BX sub. It's about 240w. It seems like a subwoofer might go too low and create unrealistic artifactes. I see from all the other posts that some like the bass amp and some the subwoofer. Is it because of cost? I mostly just use it as is, on its side, or stacked on an ELX115. I think they work good together.

A plug checker will tell you what the problem is. The hot and neutral side could be reversed. The ground could be loose. The plug checker will tell you. They aren't expensive. You might even be able to pick one up at walmart. Lifting the ground doesn't always work. Just talking from experience.

Has anybody else tried the upgrade kit?