Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Doerfler]

I believe Aspen already answered this on page 85

 

He didn't want to make the SSv3 any heavier or bigger than what is the current version.

I have to admit I don't move my SS3 much. Carried it aways and down a flight of steps to a new location. It's much heavier than it looks. Not unmanageable, mind you, but I wouldn't want it any heavier myself.

[El Lobo]

I think the more helpful question/poll might be: of those who previously ordered a sub solely to pair with their SS3, who still uses it regularly.

 

(I don't.)

I'd be interested in answers to this question. Also, if you use a sub, are you playing LH bass? Are you using a sub when there's a bass player? Are you using a sub in larger group (5, 6, or more players)? In small clubs or large venues?

[Al Coda]

I just noticed the Behringer 1200 is XLR input and the CPS is 1/4" for the SUB OUT.

Does this cause any issues?

 

Not when you solder the right cable.

 

Going from SSv3 fullrange-mono out (that´s what it is,- not dedicated HP filtered sub-out) into the Behringer sub, you go into input "A" and you need a unbalanced cable w/ 1/4" T/S (2 poles: tip & sleeve) phones plug on one end and a unbalanced wired maleXLR plug on the other.

 

Disadvantage:

SSv3 8" woofer still has to handle all the low frequency load.

 

*********

 

Going w/ your keyboard-mixer into the Behringer sub 1st, simply requires 2 balanced fXLR > mXLR (or 1/4" TRS > mXLR) cables from balanced outputs of the mixer into inputs A & B of the sub.

THEN you go from both the HP-filtered balanced outputs (not THRU !) of the sub into the unbalanced inputs of the SSv3 which requires 2 fXLR >1/4"TS unbalanced wired cable.

I´d use quality balanced microphone cable and solder ground to the sleeve of the 1/4" TS plugs and both + & - to the tip.

 

Advantages:

 

a)

Balanced signal path between mixer and sub.

b)

SSv3 now works only above the frequency range of the sub, thus operating safer and cleaner w/ more headroom.

 

Disadvantage:

 

Behringer sub is reported to eat about 10dB of gain.

 

That´s why I posted the small footprint 10" RCF.

It has the same functionality the Behringer has.

RCF makes quality passive & active speakers and make their own speaker components as well !

It´s their smallest an cheapest subwoofer though, but all the others are overkill for the SSv3.

 

A.C.

 

 

[Aspen]

Aspen, I think SS owners are single-handedly responsible for purchasing 80% of the Behringer B1200D production. Rather than share the wealth with Behringer, perhaps you ought to build a Center Point sub in the same form factor as the SS. I'm sure you can find an 8" single purpose driver that will go down to 40hz, and I would expect 200 watts would be enough to complement the volume of the SS. If more cab sq inches are required to support the low end, then you could simply build the sub cab higher. Finally, a single-purpose crossover would ensure that the SS is seamless all the way down to 40 hz. What do you think?

 

As I have chimed in before, back in Season 2, episode 22...there are MANY better (read; larger) companies already making powered subs that work just fine, and for a very low cost. I simply do not care to compete in that crowded field, but rather want to focus my limited assets and resources on doing "The One Thing" nobody else can; Center Point Stereo.

 

And to address other recent and reoccurring comments here about a possible larger Spacestation; "IF" and when, I ever may make a larger SS version, then for sure it will go to 50Hz, get louder, and so not need a Sub. But as I have already mention several times already; today I am fully focused on making ever more SS3 amps to meet the growing demand you guys have blessed me with...for which I am SO very grateful!

 

FYI, and additionally, some of you may know I have also recently released a new version of my old TEC award winning Convertible mic, now called the DT1 (Dual Top condenser mic for stage and studio), a new tube based dual tube Pentode-Dual OD pedal called ther DuoTonic, and some magnetically attaching pop filters. So I have been REAL busy bringing all these new APD Products on line too.

 

And I would remind you in the Laws of Physics, that "bigger" means "bigger price and size"...and so not always "better" for many who have older backs and shrinking wallets. So, even if I were to release a larger version, it would have to be heavier, larger and much more expensive. And also there is NO WAY I would ever dream of replacing and/or discontinuing my most successful product EVER in 40+ years of developing products..the SS3 is here to stay as long as God gives me breath.

 

Lastly re: SS3+SUB; in gig reports from many SS3 users here, the SS3 stand alone has been quite enough for those smaller gigs! Even those who have bought a sub to extend the LF for those larger, louder rock gigs do not always bring the Sub for the medium and smaller gigs, especially when there is a bass player in the band occupying that territory.

 

Thanks again to all you SS# fans who've chipped so often, and so effectively, on these reoccurring questions and comments from the many potential and first time SS3 users. You guys here on this KC thread have been my best beta testing and customer service team a guy like me could ever dream of having! Someday I should throw a "CPS company picnic" and jam party here at APR studios, but I am not sure how many of you could actually make it. Still, it would be fun, and you are all most deserving!

[MathOfInsects]

Someday I should throw a "CPS company picnic" and jam party here at APR studios, but I am not sure how many of you could actually make it. Still, it would be fun, and you are all most deserving!

 

In!

[Al Quinn]

I believe Aspen already answered this on page 85

 

He didn't want to make the SSv3 any heavier or bigger than what is the current version.

I have to admit I don't move my SS3 much. Carried it aways and down a flight of steps to a new location. It's much heavier than it looks. Not unmanageable, mind you, but I wouldn't want it any heavier myself.

 

+1

 

The SS V3 is at about the max weight limit for my 57 year old body!

[rickp]

I think the more helpful question/poll might be: of those who previously ordered a sub solely to pair with their SS3, who still uses it regularly.

 

(I don't.)

I'd be interested in answers to this question. Also, if you use a sub, are you playing LH bass? Are you using a sub when there's a bass player? Are you using a sub in larger group (5, 6, or more players)? In small clubs or large venues?

An old law professor was fond of saying "'It depends' is almost always a correct answer;" I think it applies to all of your questions.

 

As for the LH bass question: I use bass amp instead of a sub playing LH bass, but depending on the setting, LH bass will usually be played on a board dedicated to bass or from a board split with aux outs for the bass, so the bass feed and amplification is wholly independent of keys fed to the SS3 - so SS3 alone is fine for the RH keys. When LH bass is being played from a single board setup with no aux outs (like a CP4), I'm using a bass amp from the SS3's sub-out instead of a sub, and the freqs seem to naturally crossover well.

 

As for when there is a bass player, if keys are running into FOH and circumstances aren't allowing me a stereo IEM feed, I'm using the SS3 onstage with a stereo keys feed to FOH (for me, staying out of the bass player's way avoids freqs that challenge the SS3 at volume and it handles everything just fine on its own) and plugging the SS3 sub-out jack with a simple 1/4 to RCA adapter plug to prevent it from farting. If keys are running through FOH and I can have a stereo IEM feed, I'm not using any onstage amplification at all (unless the mains are so high and/or wide that I feel like some near/center fill is needed - then may use the SS3 or 2 K8s depending on how much volume is needed). And this all applies regardless of size of group or venue.

 

Playing solo AP is when I always think I need a supplement to the SS3, and prefer a bass amp to a sub in that setting. Tweaking the EQ on the bass amp results in nice crossover between the units.

 

As good as the SS3 is for keyboard use, my very favorite SS3 usage is in a church or acoustic setting, using the SS3 center-front stage, tilted up and rear-firing back at the group with the FOH stereo feed (sans bass) . . . it's pure magic.

 

[Al Quinn]

So I went ahead and bought a used Behringer B1200D pro - my first sub ever - and realize I have a few basic questions:

 

Mostly, is there a particular "default" setting I should begin with on the "high cut" dial?

 

The "quick start" menu says to begin with this dial set all the way to the right (at 160), and then rotate it gradually until one hears the best sound balance. But I'm curious if there is a general rule of thumb where the best balance usually is (in conjunction with the SS). I imagine this might depend a lot on the room, among other things, but it would be useful to know what people generally do.

 

My primary use for this right now is playing a Mojo in a trio (guitar and drums) in relatively small clubs.

 

Edit: guess I'll add that I am also curious if those of you using a B1200 with the SS generally turn the "boost" switch on, and if so, what level you set that dial to.

 

I've been happy with the BD1200D-PRO settings at:

HIGH CUT at 10:00 (i.e., I think that equates to about 94 Hz)

BOOST switch on

HIGH BOOST just before noon (i..e, I think that's about 60 Hz)

LEVEL at full

 

I use this for playing jazz organ (w/LH bass) trio gigs. It's important to note that my setup is clone->SS V3->BD1200. I had initially tried organ->BD1200->SS V3 and didn't like it. The bass notes lacked definition of pitch and no amount of tweaking helped. For me, it was unplayable.

[Al Quinn]

I think the more helpful question/poll might be: of those who previously ordered a sub solely to pair with their SS3, who still uses it regularly.

 

(I don't.)

 

I always use the BD1200 for jazz organ trio gigs where I'm playing LH bass.

I never use it on any gig that has a bass player.

 

[drawback]

I sold my B1200D and bought a bass amp for the same reasons, and with the same results, as rickp.

 

I know bass players who love [url:http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/gallien-krueger-mb150e-112iii-150w-microbass-combo-amp]these little guys[/url] and they are perfect. Just very pricey new (remember this is Canada, $1100 here) and rarely parted with. Got a used one for 1/3 of that on Craigslist.

 

 

 

 

[MotiDave]

Aspen, I think SS owners are single-handedly responsible for purchasing 80% of the Behringer B1200D production. Rather than share the wealth with Behringer, perhaps you ought to build a Center Point sub in the same form factor as the SS. I'm sure you can find an 8" single purpose driver that will go down to 40hz, and I would expect 200 watts would be enough to complement the volume of the SS. If more cab sq inches are required to support the low end, then you could simply build the sub cab higher. Finally, a single-purpose crossover would ensure that the SS is seamless all the way down to 40 hz. What do you think?

 

As I have chimed in before, back in Season 2, episode 22...there are MANY better (read; larger) companies already making powered subs that work just fine, and for a very low cost. I simply do not care to compete in that crowded field, but rather want to focus my limited assets and resources on doing "The One Thing" nobody else can; Center Point Stereo.

 

And to address other recent and reoccurring comments here about a possible larger Spacestation; "IF" and when, I ever may make a larger SS version, then for sure it will go to 50Hz, get louder, and so not need a Sub. But as I have already mention several times already; today I am fully focused on making ever more SS3 amps to meet the growing demand you guys have blessed me with...for which I am SO very grateful!

 

FYI, and additionally, some of you may know I have also recently released a new version of my old TEC award winning Convertible mic, now called the DT1 (Dual Top condenser mic for stage and studio), a new tube based dual tube Pentode-Dual OD pedal called ther DuoTonic, and some magnetically attaching pop filters. So I have been REAL busy bringing all these new APD Products on line too.

 

And I would remind you in the Laws of Physics, that "bigger" means "bigger price and size"...and so not always "better" for many who have older backs and shrinking wallets. So, even if I were to release a larger version, it would have to be heavier, larger and much more expensive. And also there is NO WAY I would ever dream of replacing and/or discontinuing my most successful product EVER in 40+ years of developing products..the SS3 is here to stay as long as God gives me breath.

 

Lastly re: SS3+SUB; in gig reports from many SS3 users here, the SS3 stand alone has been quite enough for those smaller gigs! Even those who have bought a sub to extend the LF for those larger, louder rock gigs do not always bring the Sub for the medium and smaller gigs, especially when there is a bass player in the band occupying that territory.

 

Thanks again to all you SS# fans who've chipped so often, and so effectively, on these reoccurring questions and comments from the many potential and first time SS3 users. You guys here on this KC thread have been my best beta testing and customer service team a guy like me could ever dream of having! Someday I should throw a "CPS company picnic" and jam party here at APR studios, but I am not sure how many of you could actually make it. Still, it would be fun, and you are all most deserving!

 

all I got out of that was (and I paraphrase for brevity):

 

"I'm working on a larger kick-ass ss4 that will deliver superb LF down to 50 Hz and peel the paint off the biggest rock n roll venue walls you will ever find. I'll be announcing launch sometime in early 2016 ... "

 

 

[cedar]

I've been happy with the BD1200D-PRO settings at:

HIGH CUT at 10:00 (i.e., I think that equates to about 94 Hz)

BOOST switch on

HIGH BOOST just before noon (i..e, I think that's about 60 Hz)

LEVEL at full

 

This is helpful. Anyone else have any settings they generally like on the BD1200?

[BenWaB3]

When listening to the demo videos of the SpaceStation there often seems to be a phase shifted or chorused quality occurring in the sound. This could be particularly annoying in Acoustic Piano sounds. Do you actual owners experience that or is it just an artifact in the recording process? I'm being like Fox Mulder here, as in "I want to believe" but would hate it if that turns out to be the way this unit sounds. Thanks.

[Danny Linguini]

When listening to the demo videos of the SpaceStation there often seems to be a phase shifted or chorused quality occurring in the sound. This could be particularly annoying in Acoustic Piano sounds. Do you actual owners experience that or is it just an artifact in the recording process? I'm being like Fox Mulder here, as in "I want to believe" but would hate it if that turns out to be the way this unit sounds. Thanks.

I think it's just a product of the recording -- I don't have any of that effect at home or out live.

[BenWaB3]

Thanks, sleepingbear. That's good to know!

[MathOfInsects]

When listening to the demo videos of the SpaceStation there often seems to be a phase shifted or chorused quality occurring in the sound. This could be particularly annoying in Acoustic Piano sounds. Do you actual owners experience that or is it just an artifact in the recording process? I'm being like Fox Mulder here, as in "I want to believe" but would hate it if that turns out to be the way this unit sounds. Thanks.

I think it's just a product of the recording -- I don't have any of that effect at home or out live.

 

Strictly speaking, the amp literally works by phase shifting. But the effect is not at all chorusy, it's crisp and submersive.

[SteinwayB]

First gig last night with SS3 and Ashley stereo crossover (100Hz) with low signal sent to my FBT 4Max powered PA speaker (12 woofer with compression horn). The sound was excellent with powerful clean bass. Much better solution for me than purchasing a sub; crossover was $270. FBT is only 28lbs each.

[Aspen]

First gig last night with SS3 and Ashley stereo crossover (100Hz) with low signal sent to my FBT 4Max powered PA speaker (12 woofer with compression horn). The sound was excellent with powerful clean bass. Much better solution for me than purchasing a sub; crossover was $270. FBT is only 28lbs each.

 

Hmmm, I really LIKE that idea. It seems like a better "no gain loss" solution than using the B1200 pass thru 100Hz high pass filter that sucks like 10dB from the signal chain before the SS3 (which is why I use my B1200 "post SS3").

 

Any good active x-over should have a buffering stage and so offer an output with "unity gain" (no gain loss), which is the goal.

 

Then, any small bass amp or powered PA cab should more than suffice to carry the ultra LF while allowing the SS3 to get much louder because it doesn't do the heavy lifting in the under 100Hz region.

 

Thanks for the report SB...very creative!

[TimA]

Looks like that new Fender SFX amp is out now.

[Aspen]

Looks like that new Fender SFX amp is out now.

 

Thanks for the heads up Tim, I have known this amp was coming for a (way too) long time...so I was happy (but not surprised) to hear about it hear first.

 

FYI, this is Fender's 3rd generation of CPS licensed products, made under their trademark name of SFX (Stereo Field Expansion). We have granted Fender the exclusive license in this acoustic/electric category and are both proud and honored to have them as a CPS partner.

 

Frankly spoken, I am REALLY excited to see it's finally out, it;s been several years absent from their line up!

 

Their 1st generation SFX Acoustisonic guitar amp had a 42% market share and sold very well for several years. But I felt they missed the mark on their 2nd generation. Bu now it seems like they have really up their game on #3 (yes, another V.3!). I wish them even more success with this one. May it live long and prosper!

 

Hey, wouldn't it be great to see a club duo or an acoustic piano/guitar band playing w/ a SS3 KB amp AND a Fender SFX Acoustic amp! Maybe you might tell your guitar playing pals to step up and join the CPS family...this amp looks pretty cool!

 

I will have to make a call and get one to test. The video looks pretty good, very nice looking curved wood cabinet and they even spelled my name right in the credits! And just 26 pounds!

 

See: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/fender-acoustic-sfx-2-channel-160w-acoustic-guitar-stereo-amp

 

 

[zxcvbnm098]

It is a very nice looking cabinet if you ask me.........

[TimA]

I do play acoustic guitar, so if it's even remotely as good as the SSv3 I'll likely get one. Sweetwater is doing that 36 month financing again. (Darn that's hard to resist!)

[HAMEGZ]

Looks like that new Fender SFX amp is out now.

 

 

I will have to make a call and get one to test. The video looks pretty good, very nice looking curved wood cabinet and they even spelled my name right in the credits! And just 26 pounds!

 

See: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/fender-acoustic-sfx-2-channel-160w-acoustic-guitar-stereo-amp

 

 

If I were a millionaire rock star I would commission you to build a one off wood enclosure SS3 for me. That wood looks gorgeous .

[16251]

Looks like that new Fender SFX amp is out now.

Wow $899.00 and only bi-amped. Seems like no licencing and going direct (sort of,) is/was the ticket.

[rockinredeye]

It would be interesting to know how the Fender amp treats the mono input. Does the stereo bloom only occur if the internal effects are used? Or, if the internal effects are off, does it still do something to the signal to make the wonderful SFX work? Not trying to be negative about this amp. I'm sure it sounds great and the cabinet is about the best looking guitar cab I've ever seen. Just technically curious.

[Aspen]

Looks like that new Fender SFX amp is out now.

Wow $899.00 and only bi-amped. Seems like no licencing and going direct (sort of,) is/was the ticket.

 

Yes, going direct with a single dealer partner has some cost advantages for the end user (Sweetwater and my Aspen & Associates website are the only USA vendors of the SS3...both of us selling at the same price of $749+cover, incl shipping).

 

However. Fender has cost reduction advantages too with their larger scale of manufacturing. Buying 1,000s of widgets at a time is way cheaper then me buying 100s of widgets.

 

And also I see other value added items that justify the higher price; this amp TWO channels that can accept mics or instruments and each with built in DSP stereo FX, so you can have hall reverb on vocals and Delay/Chorus on guitar...very cool...so you don't need a mixer.

 

Yes, the power is about half, with 2 amps instead of the SS V.3's 4 amp tri-amp Front design. But probably it is not "half as loud". In general rules of audio physics, doubling power only adds 3dB...barely noticible....and also speaker efficiency plays into the response and SPL as well. Fender usually has very competent designs in that department. I am anxious to try one out myself (they have promised to send me one so I will report back here with my detailed "review").

 

NOTE; even though it has a 2-way Front speaker w/ a passive x-over, their HF driver may extend further out than the coax Eminence APT driver we use in the SS3, so a super tweeter may not be necessary for this design...and/or also remember that an acoustic guitar doesn't have the bandwidth demand of a KB amp like our SS3....which had a design goal of a "stereo powered monitor" so it had to be ready to reproduce any stereo source...including full range backing tracks.

 

Plus it's got a trick wood cab and the whole package weighs in at 26 lbs...not to mention our "stereo everywhere" CPS technology! So I seems like it will be a very attractive amp for the electro-acoustic guitar player that sing and needs an all-in-one package for those small single gigs...it should be a great street musician amp.

 

As I said, I am looking forward to hearing a KB/guitar duo/trio with one of each on stage; a SS3 for the KB and and the new Fender SFX on guitar. Now that would be something to hear!

[Aspen]

It would be interesting to know how the Fender amp treats the mono input. Does the stereo bloom only occur if the internal effects are used? ...Just technically curious.

 

Well I haven't tried it to be certain, but if it's like the first two Fender SFX versions, the CPS encoding network would only be "activated" with a stereo signal, which would only be present if the stereo FX were brought into the mix. Otherwise all you will hear from is the Front speaker system.

 

In theory, you can't do much with a mono signal in the World of CPS technology, we require some stereo signal to wake up the Side speaker.

 

But it only takes a hair of stereo Hall reverb to make that amp come alive, so it's not like you'd need a heavy level of FX to get great dimension.

 

BTW, I just noticed one other thing about this new Fender SFX amp, it is a two channel MONO Input amo with stereo FX for each channel...but I see no way to use this for a L&R stereo KB amp as there are no stereo L&R inputs. Just "Chan 1 and Chan 2".

 

I was considering trying it on KBs...but I am not sure it could actually accept a stereo input...at least it does not appear to be able to do so. Understandable, as it was designed for guitar, which is almost always a mono source.

[Doug Robinson]

Sorry to go off topic here, but I played last night with my SK1 and my SS3 (no sub) with a loud blues band and loved it. I'm getting totally used to putting the amp on it's side, side-firing speaker aimed down, on an amp stand about 2 feet behind me. Most of the night I was able to visualize a Leslie sitting in the same spot.

 

My guitarist--who also has excellent ears--said to me later "What a cool amp--it fills up the room without being too loud."

[MotiDave]

you have a guitarist with excellent ears? (I jest, I jest ...)

[Doerfler]

 

My guitarist--who also has excellent ears--said to me later "What a cool amp--it fills up the room without being too loud."

 

now only if Aspen could develop something like this for guitar players.