HX3 MIDI expander module

[Al Coda]

Studiologic should make a controller version of the Numa 2 with this fixed. I bet they could sell a few.

 

They better should bring a controller keyboard w/ 2 sets of drawbars + 2 pedal drawbars, high trigger point keybed, licence the HX3 board and throw it in.

Ditch the wheels too,- buttons for rotary slow/stop/fast instead.

 

A.C.

[hardware]

Everybody is looking at the HX-3 now.

Theres a lot of those dual manual Oberheims laying around @ Viscount.

Imagine that with thier Phys Mod the HX-3 and MIDI from the K4.

 

That Dog would Hunt....

[Dave Osoff]

Al - With the exception of the HX3 engine installed, the DMC-122 does all that!

[DiversiOrgan]

Finding the ToneWheel Ghost.

 

First the comments I am making below are not to be taken as me speaking for Carsten Meyer or Diversi but my own personal feelings. It is also not intended to start a flaming session or tick off anyone.

 

Again, some of you know I worked for Hammond Suzuki USA. I can tell you that when the XB2 was introduced the ONLY way to update it was via changing out two EPROMS and doing a hard reset. It wasn't simple. The same thing held true for XK2 update and in both cases you had to send the unit to a tech or HSU and they would update it.

 

I along with Steven Eaklor, at HSU, use to document in coming calls and emails when it came to customer requests for changes and features. We would send those to Japan and we NEVER knew what they would or wouldn't use. However, one of the often requested things, in those early years, was for software to make changes and updates. It just wasn't able to be done as everything was programed at machine level code or code that was compiled from another language.

 

Today USING a USB thumb drive is ok but it still doesn't give you the flexibility of "tweaking" things like you can with the HX3. The Remote Software isn't just for updating but for trying to find the Tonewheel Ghost. It must be clearly understood that the UPDATES are just part of what the Remote Software is for. And yes as a Mac User I would love to have it native to my Mac but thankfully having a Mac lets me run Windows at the same time.

 

I have said this before, The "Remote Software" is almost developer level. This again is rare to be able to do this with a product. Granted many people want plug and play. However, as I have seen time and again at some point many a user starts asking, "Is there a way to change XYZ or I don't like this percussion level as it goes up the keyboard or can I refine the upper horn rotation and so on. Factory settings and advanced features, in most of the clones, are not as detailed as you can get with the HX3's Remote Software as there are extra parameters in the Remote Software that aren't all available from the front panel of the HX3. This is the advantage of the HX3 in trying to find that Tonewheel Ghost.

 

I stress that if someone is technically challenged they shouldn't use the Remote Software. However, the world is going in this direction more and more and we either learn it or we learn to be content with what we know. I for one want to learn more and I love to refine things to my taste.

 

Also, I think everyone of us that have played the vintage tonewheel organ and rotary speaker rig will agree;

 

1. No two tonewheel organ setups are the same.

2. Some tonewheel organ setups are better then others.

3. We all know that the tonewheel organ rig that we have in our home or studio or in the basement is the BEST tonewheel organ ever and if only you would cloned it I just know EVERYONE else will love it. :-) (Except for that one person who says their rig is better.)

4. We are all chasing a ghost that is in our reach and if ONLY they (Fill in the blank) could just change this one thing I can catch my ToneWheel Ghost.

 

After being around this industry for over 4 decades from playing professionally, working for manufactures and having my own products I will say, as a user, that having the ability to change things is better and it is going to happen more and more. The other alternative is wait for the next new hardware based unit and find those little things I wish they would change on this new product. Then wait to the next new hardware gear comes out.

 

Again, I am not expressing anything on Carsten's behalf but this is my own feelings as a user of the product.

 

Also, it was inferred that "we or I" blow off comments. When someone takes the time to share their feelings or wishes, I do take notes and pass them on to Germany as does MG to Uhl and to Keyboard Partners. As to what and when Germany will do or released an update is up to Carsten. But we do know that things are changing.

 

Personally, I think in the last 3 or 4 months Carsten has made leaps in doing things and that seems you can only get from a small guy who cares deeply about what he is doing. This is one of the reasons why we are representing his products here in the US.

 

With the utmost respect to everyone and thank you again for your purchased and to those who love their HX3.

 

Now back to chasing the ToneWheel Ghost. :-)

[Al Coda]

Al - With the exception of the HX3 engine installed, the DMC-122 does all that!

 

I agree, Dave, but I myself, I´m not after a MIDI organ controller, just only replied on the NUMA 2 controller idea.

I always hated the wheels and their position on the NUMA 1 and 2.

 

According to organ actions, ideally I´d prefer the original shape, size and fast triggering of Hammond-keys, may it be in a specialized MIDI organ-controller or an orgen itself.

 

Fatar TP-O 61 are full size keys and Hammond keys were smaller.

 

Everytime I look on the organ clones and controllers using Fatar TP-O, I have the feel something is wrong.

It´s just only a psychological, subconscious mind thing and the same when looking at dual manual organs w/ distance of upper/lower keybeds not being close enough together.

 

So, I´d wish we get Hammond size waterfall keys in organ clones and controllers one day.

 

B.tw., coming from Minimoog D which had smaller keys too, I feel the same for some synths, feeling a bit uncomfortable when a synth comes w/ full size non-weighted keys.

 

Back to organ clones, both, the HX3 and Crumar Mojo engines sound great.

When I had to make a decision between UHL and MOJO, for me UHL wins just because of the flat top supporting any other keyboard´s front,- it residing on a crossbar of the stand w/ it´s back.

It´s all about it fits better into my rig that way.

Direct purchase in germany vs shipment from italy is the other advantage for me.

 

A.C.

[M_G]

 

The 3.84 seems to be finished:

https://github.com/keyboardpartner/HX3/tree/master/LATEST

(new CV as stated and improved pedal tones)

 

Some interessting statements about the new CV by the

developer Carsten Meyer (aka bovist) - german only:

http://forum.keyboardpartner.de/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=466&sid=fed98d4f9f2720565e25b63af971583b

Interessting point (I tried to translate):

With the re-programming of the new CV (which improved especially

the vibrato settings) he got some more space in the FPGA.

So by time he will make new TGs 1-13 for better pedaltones, which was not possible because the lack of space on the fpga...

 

@A.C.

Crumar has now a german distributor, E.M.C. in Langenau...

But same as you stated, I love to have a flat top !

[Kurt W]

According to organ actions, ideally I´d prefer the original shape, size and fast triggering of Hammond-keys, may it be in a specialized MIDI organ-controller or an orgen itself.

 

Fatar TP-O 61 are full size keys and Hammond keys were smaller.

 

So, I´d wish we get Hammond size waterfall keys in organ clones and controllers one day.

Off topic but: I suppose you mean TP8O which is used in most clones. Just measured the keys on my Nord C2. Total width of 61 keys are 84.7 cm, checked against my B3 which is exactly the same. Distance from back of black key to front of white keys is 13.2 cm on both. Vertical distance between manuals are also identical. The only thing that differs is horizontal distance between front of keys of upper vs lower manuals, this is about 15 cm on B3 and about 6 mm shorter on the Nord.

 

I agree that the total length of the keys is the thing that should be increased, playing the inner parts of the keys is more challenging on the Nord than on the Hammond. Measurements is done with simple tool so please don't arrest me if some deviation from exact values.

[LX88]

I don't think the Numa should be made into a dual manual. I have appreciated the light weight and convenience of a single manual.

\

And I don 't think it should incorporate the HX3 engine either. I haven't heard this new CV update but it was very apparent to me that something needed to be addressed in that deparment. It amazed me that so many people seemed to be OK with it.

 

As far as chasing ghosts, as I said... I was happy with the Key B engine the first time I heard it. I was glad that it became available in the Numa. Before that, I was pretty happy with the VK8m and still wish I had it. It had good CV and the best overdrive I have ever had.

 

My VK8m was not stock though. The previous owner had done a sysex modification to it and got it to perform like the Roland VK88.

 

I have quite a collection of Hammonds and I don't think any are "the greatest" but probably the most unique one I have is a 1973 B-3 with mylar caps. Just about everybody who has played it has commented on how lively it sounds.And I have had more than one major league player try to talk me into selling it.

 

When I heard the different variations on aged caps in the HX3 I didn't hear anything that made me think that they had captured that nuance. It's not a big deal though.

 

I think that clones do sound different than tonewheel organs but in some cases it is an advantage. Particularly in amplification options.

[mate stubb]

Just about everybody who has played it has commented on how lively it sounds.

 

I hear you. My Mojo has an aliveness that I don't hear from the HX-3.

[hardware]

Hey the new CV/PedalDB update somehow added new wideness to the Leslie emulation.

I now can drop the amount of Horn/Rotor balance to 80.

 

Who should I contact for some suggestions for real time parameter modulation questions.

Seems I can create presets from my controller by disabling prests in the remote application.

This is great for me.

I recall Scenes on the Physis K4, 4 for each performance.

Intro. Verse. Chorus. Solo.....perfect.

 

However these parameters are static.

While values can be seen changing on the HX3 LCD, they do not take effect unless done manually by the knob.

 

No biggie for the Reverb. I just automate my TC Fireworx.

Hopefully this can be addressed.

Same goes for Vibrato parameters. Off and On per preset.

Odd that Leslie Throb is fully automated.

Thats nice as its very noticable.

Also leads me to believe that other parameters can have similar real time capabilities.

 

No problem getting any tradional B3 sound on the HX3.

Very impressive module. Best I ever had and I owned several.

 

Its what the original B3s were incapable of doing that piques my interests.

 

 

[mafy.se]

[

Greetings from Sweden to all of you!

 

It's nice to see this many people discovering the outstanding qualities of the HX3 sound engine.

 

Best regards,

 

MAFY Hammond & Leslie Service, Sweden

 

Hejsan Mafy!

 

Bought my HX3 from you. Really dig its authentic sound!

 

Hälsningar från Götet

 

 

Nämen - hej!

 

Very nice to hear that you like the HX3!

 

From a Hammond musicians point of view I'd say this is something revolutionary, just like many of you have already said here and elsewhere. From a professional engineer and technicians point of view, I'd say it's about as good as it gets. We are thrilled and happy in our ears and in our mind!

 

Regards to you all,

 

MAFY

[hardware]

Just wanted to thank whoever assigned the DSP necessary to the Reverb to make Reverb 2 sound so damn nice.

I have A/B'd it next to my ancient DEP-5, Lexicon PCM70 and TC Fireworx.

 

This thing sounds great. Not just a tail maker, but actually pulls the Hammond tonewheel sound back into the mix as it wraps its wetness around the audio source.

 

Is there any way in the Advanced Section of the Editor one can manipulate the parameters slightly...?

 

Thanks Again.

[LX88]

I was also impressed with the HX3 reverb, as well as with the leslie sim. I am still curious how the HX3 CV update is panning out, though at this point I am waiting to see what might be happening with the Crumar Gemini.

[hardware]

The CV was cool, I was OK with what we already had but I did have to tweak it to taste. Now I have to back it down as it's really heavy at the max values.

 

The Reverb is begging for editing parameters.

It seems like it's a single algorithim, which basically just shortens the decay on 1/2 and 3 being the longer "Church".

 

I'd love to eliminate the Pre Delay since there aren't any noticeable early reflections, and then play with Room Size.

 

Listening to a buddy play the HX-3 I ran out front since we play through KW Series QSC PA in stereo.

It sounded like a giant fuckin' Leslie as the stereo field got a huge boost even though it was a CV update.

 

Set my ramp downs for extra long as I love the old Steppenwolf "Pusher" length and the Dark Side of the Moon ramp down.

Love hearing that gurgling as the Doppler effect kicks in.

Rotor and Horn are wide and sound fantastic.

 

My SSv3 sounds good too, but the distance from the 3 way upper mains cabinets and probably some SSv3 bleeding out as I was only 25 feet away, was giving me Goose Bumps.

 

I know one thing folks in St.Louis and Nashville are talking about this. Most cats I work opposite of or hang with use real Hammond/Suzukis or vintage chopped mods, and custom chopped 147s mostly.

 

They got crews and management so they're fine with a real B but always want to have an all in 1 package for jamming at the hot spots after hours with friends.

 

This is definitely a 1 trick Pony.

 

 

[ob1]

I will send Diversi the CC sets I have made. I have the Nord Stage CC set and also one for the GSI DMC-122.

 

Dave - how do you like the DMC after having it for a while? Is it a really good match for the HX3? Are there gaps?

[Dave Osoff]

I haven't noticed any gaps. I think they are a great combo. The DMC can control more HX3 parameters than you'll really need. it has 2 sets of draw bars + 2 pedal draw bars, upper and lower CV controls, percussion, lots of extra knobs and buttons and nice smooth action. Another great thing is the DMC software is so easy to use that you really don't need to dig into the HX3 remote software if you don't want to. You could use it out of the box with the HX3 Hamichord CC set and then customize it from there. I used the NI b4 cc set and after some tweaking, have real time control over nearly everything: upper, lower DB, percussion, CV, plus Reverb 1,2 and 3, Ao28, key click, swell trim cap, tone cap... Audio Jack A/B switching... Pretty awesome...

[hardware]

Dave can you adjust Reverb parameters in real time..?

I can only get settings recalled.

Really hope I can have a knob adjust the amount on the fly.

Same with the CV amounts.

I get Throb and Perc. Mute to work like real time parameters, but the Vib Mix, Chor Mix and Vib age seem to only show the parameters are being moved., No difference in the sound.

 

Thanks

 

If you have succeeded in this I will assume I did not upgrade the AVF and firmware properly and will try again.

This would be the icing on the cake for me though.

 

Just trying to use MIDI Drawbars, no preset recall, and real time modulations for selected parameters.

 

Cheers

[Bill R Adams]

Hey Dave. Do you have any experience with Doepfer D3c and D3m with the HX3?

[Dave Osoff]

Hi Bill,

Re. the D3c, D3m: I do not have experience with those but there is a section in the midi controllers page on the HX3 Wiki pages dedicated to them. Here's the link:

 

http://wiki.keyboardpartner.de/index.php?title=Using_HX3_with_MIDI_controllers

[Dave Osoff]

Re. Reverb control:

Parameter #:

914= Reverb I on/off

915= Reverb II on/off

Reverb III is usually activated by engaging both I and II simultaneously

 

463=Reverb 1 Level

464=Reverb 2 Level

465=Reverb 3 Level

 

So, yes you can control the reverb levels by assigning any of these parameters to an available CC and writing it into the Custom CC file.

[hardware]

Dave if you get a chance could you confirm what I found that I mentioned above?

MIDI CCs can alter the settings but the changes made are inaudible.

Great for editing then storing as default then recalled.

But they do not respond in real time like Leslie Throb or Percussion Mute (db).

[Dave Osoff]

Hardware - I haven't experienced that problem with the parameters I've controlled with midi CC's, but I haven't tried it with the ones you mentioned. I'll set up the HX3 this weekend and test those out.

[Bill R Adams]

Thanks Dave for the info. Seems like the d3c would work.

[ob1]

With the new flash tool updating the HX3 is really no problem.

"playing " wih the remote software or tapering tool is another story. Its more for freaks....the normal user has the display wifh a lot of parameters.

(not every word or excel user is a visual basic programmer...)

 

Yeah - I've now used the Flash updater a couple times and it could not have been easier. Unless something goes truly wrong (which I have not experienced) it has been a breeze for me. The key is to download and extract the whole upgrade folder to the local hard-drive and run the flash tool and HX3 Remote from within the new downloaded folder. EZ PZ.

 

Interesting comments on the C/V. I may be the only one that saw a noticeable improvement with the latest version. The new C/V is amazing. Maybe it is the speakers I'm using - M-Audio BX5's.

 

The only drawback of the HX3 for me so far is not having a dedicated volume control (either through a physical knob or an "overall level" parameter within the menu). I use a GSi BURN and about 3 or 4 versions versions ago it clipped the BURN's input, then an update fixed that and now it clips the BURN again. To control the issue I have to set A or B to Rotary L and then use the 122 level to bring it down - this works great with the internal rotary "parked" but it does color the sound. My only request is to add an "overall level" parameter to the menu and the HX3 rules like no other!

[M_G]

[quote=ob1

Interesting comments on the C/V. I may be the only one that saw a noticeable improvement with the latest version. The new C/V is amazing. Maybe it is the speakers I'm using - M-Audio BX5's.

 

No, you are not the only one ! ;-)

When I first listened over headphones and my small monitors I was sceptical if it's an improvement.

I tamed it a bit and over my Amps or Leslie - Killer !

 

[Gary75]

In the X3 organs, Wolfgang has his own taper settings. These are done with the editor I believe. Is this editing available to the end user and is Wolfgang's adjustments available to use outside of his own instruments for a fee?

 

I ask this as I think I am going to purchase a MAG C2 organ over the X3-2, primarily for the layout, metal drawbars, chunky switches in the right place that does not require finger point accuracy. Small buttons I grew tired of on the Nord C2D.

 

Can I put my own tapering in with the editor?

[Mitch Towne]

I think you might be able to, but it's witchcraft. You might have to sacrifice a goat or a couple chickens.

 

(Seriously, it isn't a user-friendly, straight-forward thing. No instructions for it, etc.)

[hardware]

I have overall volume using 3.84.

Physis K4 has 2 x Modulation wheels.

CC #11 overall volume

CC #7 122 Amp.

Occasionally when needing drawbars by hand do I assign an expression pedal.

For example on Fly Like An Eagle.

 

Left hand drawbar uses 16 full on an A Minor triad.

Push up 8 to full on a 2nd inversion D Major triad while drawing back CC#11 on expression pedal.

Push up 4 full drawing back 16 on 1st inversion D Minor Triad and exp CC #11.

Add an A Minor 1st inversion with full 5 1/3. full 8. full 4. No drawbar amount on 16.

All moves require overall volume decreases to mask drawbars swelling and collapsing.

 

I had to choose the parameter I wanted in Custom MIDI CCs.

IIRC theres 2. MIDI volume and swell. Both work.

Also nice to use 122 Amp for puely overdrive purposes.

[hardware]

However.

The 1st Trim pot is frozen at an amount of 31.

Use to go from 0 to 100.

Vibrato age. Vib mix. Chorus mix. Reverb level 2.

All static yet editable.

Trim pot is frozen.

 

By static I mean that do not adjust in real time like leslie throb or percussion mute do.

Those changes are heard via MIDI CC.

Other parameters move but no audible results.

I can get audible results only by physically turning the knob.

 

Since 3.84 is BETA I assume a fix for these minor issues are coming.

Until then store it as a preset.

[Gary75]

Looking at the firmware history, i see that 3.83c released 28/8/2015 has 'new optomized tapering for more punch less peaks'

 

I wonder if that makes it comparable to Wolfgang's tapering. I would be interested to here from the people with both the X3 and the module.