HX3 MIDI expander module

[hammonitup]

hardware,

 

i have found that when i adjust the reverb amount in real time i don't hear the result but if i change the reverb type (to another setting and then back, i.e.: 1 to 2 to 1) then it will reconnect with the adjusted reverb amount that was previously changed and I will hear it.

 

perhaps other parameters don't get output until some "master control" using these values is changed and then it updates the related parts?

 

The stuck trim pot issue seems to be fixed with rev 3.841

 

Question for you- how are you able to assign MIDI CC#s like 7 and 11 ? it seems i can only move a knob or wheel or pedal and then assign it to one of the items listed in the remote application, and none of the choices are standard MIDI CC#s. am i missing something?

 

 

[hardware]

On the remote app I delete all default CCs.

Re assign drawbars first. Save. Send then go to the left column and click on CC7 or any CC for that matter.

Then find whatever parameter I want in the right column and darken its little circle.

This is in Custom CCs.

 

Odd that in 3.83 my trim pot is not frozen.

Only in 3.84 does it stay at 31 instead of 0-100.

 

The last couple of nights were so much fun.

I can glide and slap this module like an old B3.

DSP Plug ins like the B4 or VB3 really suck for glides and then poor volume levels on higher notes.

VB3 was OK for a plug in but a drag trying to use for live.

 

Volume is perfect with HX-3.

Even on a B3 I had to kick down the swell at the top of a glide ending on a sustained note.

HX-3 does this without babysitting a swell pedal.

Pressing more notes adds more drive but not volume too.

 

Each week this module impresses me and my bandmates even more.

 

One question though.

I was a kid with chops when I joined my first signed band.

So I never learned what foldback was. And management owned the gear. When I split only gear I owned came with me.

Dont know if it even works on the HX-3 as I hear no difference in the options of the HX-3.

 

Thanks

[Jazzmammal]

Don't worry, the foldback is there, every dedicated B3 clone from the last 20 years has it. Only some workstations without a dedicated organ section might not have it.

 

Foldback means a B3 doesn't take the highest drawbar, the 1 footer and have it sound up the scale through the top octave. It duplicates the second highest octave, ie it "foldsback" that 1' tone. I assume they thought it would sound too shrill. With all the control you have with this HX3, I'm sure you can change that if you wanted. You probably also know that the percussion turns off the 1' drawbar so if you're using percussion you would never notice the foldback.

 

And there's another trick of B3 playing. You can keep the 1' drawbar out all the time and control it with the percussion on/off switch like another preset.

 

Bob

[hardware]

Thanks Brotha' Man Jazzmammal.

 

I click off and on percussion only when I need the 1' drawbar.

Actually only during a Steve Miller song and on Caravan Sierra by Santana.

Those 2 players were really good examples of rock cats knowing their axe and being incredibly diverse.

 

I am having a blast kicking off and on a 24 Stage DSP Phaser for when I have those higher drawbars swelling.

This is what I love most about HX-3.

 

Years ago a Hammond player made some excellent recordings using the B3 but editing in SAW Studio with all sorts of external FX really got my attention.

I wonder if heard of the HX-3 yet....

 

Cheerz

[MoodyBluesKeys]

Too shrill, but the main reason was the considerable added cost and space for an extra octave of itty-bitty tonewheels in the mechanical generator on the original Hammond design. Largest generators had 91 tonewheels. Some of the really big organs like the E concert series had 32' pedals, but those were not mechanically generated. Some of the spinet models also used foldback on the low pitches to reduce the amount of space needed for the generator.

 

[Doerfler]

The 3.84 seems to be finished:

https://github.com/keyboardpartner/HX3/tree/master/LATEST

(new CV as stated and improved pedal tones)

 

finally got around to updating my unit last night. Damn, this thing sounds great. Using a Hammond XK3 now as a controller so it's just like having a single manual clonewheel (with a MIDI cable ).Huge shout out to brother M G for making that happen. I sold my XK3c Traditional system 3 years ago and I had forgotten how good the keys feel. Playing it through a SS3. It really does sound like a leslie in the room now, and yes, I currently own 2 Leslies and know about moving air.

 

 

[hardware]

TrimPot setting is now unfrozen, so I got more tone again.

The CV is really adjustable in every manner too.

 

Can't wait for real time parameter modulations instead of storing presets for Reverb amount, Vib Age, Vib FreqMod, Chorus Mix, vibrato mix.

 

My last little wants and desires for otherwise a perfect clone.

 

If I had this in the 90s I could've been a contender.

[DiversiOrgan]

Don't worry, the foldback is there, every dedicated B3 clone from the last 20 years has it. Only some workstations without a dedicated organ section might not have it.

 

Foldback means a B3 doesn't take the highest drawbar, the 1 footer and have it sound up the scale through the top octave. It duplicates the second highest octave, ie it "foldsback" that 1' tone. I assume they thought it would sound too shrill. With all the control you have with this HX3, I'm sure you can change that if you wanted. You probably also know that the percussion turns off the 1' drawbar so if you're using percussion you would never notice the foldback.

 

And there's another trick of B3 playing. You can keep the 1' drawbar out all the time and control it with the percussion on/off switch like another preset.

 

Bob

Correction on the FoldBack... It effects the LAST or lowest octave. From the CV/BV/RT up into the B3/C3/A-100/RT3 and D-150 the 16ft or first brown drawbar that last octave folded back up and octave. Pre CV/BV/RT the lowest note with the 1st Drawbar out was F# in the lowest octave. Some first BC's and D's went ALL the way down the last octave as Hammond was using up the last of the A and BA TGs. So that is where NO or NONE Foldback stems from.

 

I was working for Hammond Suzuki when the XB2 project was started and I had a hand in the advanced features. I and along with Steven Eaklor requested that ability and it was assignable. We also asked for the adjustable keyclick, and even the drawbar voicing for those who thought that the Concord MMD organ drawbar voicing was cool, I wasn't fond of it. And to the best of my knowledge it was the first clone that had that ability. None of the other products we had then, did that. I know the home organs didn't have that.

 

The idea was to try and embody the variety of Tonewheel organs more from a historical stand point. Also, Steve and I where friendly with a few of the older pros like Jimmy McGriff, Shirley Scott, Jackie Davis, Eddy Layton (more of the popular organists.) One of the things that came up when talking with them was how many of them liked the lower end of the Model A... McGriff loved the A as he was a Bass Player before being an organ player so when he was playing the XB3 he had "no foldback."

 

Sorry, if someone thinks I am stepping on toes, as I don't mean to, but None or No Foldback is for the lowest octave or bass end. And yes ,the EARLY, EARLY model A's upper did go higher and those early A's higher octaves weren't tapered as they did that later. And on the very first model A's the pedal drawbars where on the left side of the drawbars.... Bass, Upper A#, Upper B, Lower A# and Lower B. Pipe organ lay out.

[hardware]

You're right and I have been using splits on a Physis K4.

For an old Argent tune I used lower manual for a low D drone.

The low D on the upper manual overwhelmed the High D sus with F# G trill.

Now I can see what foldback is.

Trimmed my 16' on the upper manual.

 

Thanks for the tip and knowledge.

Always regretted not learning more about the gear I got to use and record on back then.

Too young too many hormones flying around.

 

Have the HX3 folks acknowledged my findings yet?

Workarounds are cool but I have insane controller options with the Physis K4.

Cant wait to take the Hammond sound forward.

I grow weary emulating the Alexander Graham Bell era of the last century........

 

Actually I am a very satisfied customer.

Its in my nature to lean forward though.

[Jon May]

Forgive me for asking, but using the search function I am unable to find any posts by folk using this module with a Nord Electro (hx3+nord+electro returns 100 results containing any one of those terms). Would love to know if a NE (I have a 4) makes a useable controller paired with this module.

[Jon May]

Found 1 reference so far, on page 37 of this thread

[Al Quinn]

Forgive me for asking, but using the search function I am unable to find any posts by folk using this module with a Nord Electro (hx3+nord+electro returns 100 results containing any one of those terms). Would love to know if a NE (I have a 4) makes a useable controller paired with this module.

 

I paired my Electro 4D with the HX3 module. They mostly work well together. Drawbars, vibrato/chorus, and rotary control mapped fine. Presets on the HX3 can be selected via program changes on the E4D. Percussion didn't map perfectly because the E4D doesn't have the four percussion buttons needed for an exact map.

[Jon May]

Cool... thanks Al. I wonder why the manufacturer didn't include a stock CC set for Nords the way they have for other clones? Too much variation between different Nord models perhaps?

[M_G]

 

Correct, Nord Stage is different than Nord Electro is different than C2....

 

The default Custom CC set is for the Nord C2. It's a good starting point to create an own CC set.

 

Its also a matter of memory. there is only a limited space for midi sets....

 

It's no problem for midi master controllers (like Kurzweil pc3 or others) where you can define the knobs or sliders with Midi CC#.....

 

[Bill R Adams]

I am using HX3 with Nord Stage and it works OK. Gotta get away from the weighted keys though. That will happen in a week or so. Is anyone with an HX3 living close to Martinsville, VA? I need to update and I have a Mac and even if I could run a windows program (Parallels or other) I don't have the expertise to trust myself not to screw up the HX3. I am at 3.822.

[Doerfler]

Is anyone with an HX3 living close to Martinsville, VA?

 

If you ever get up to DC I can help you out, although I know it's not exactly "close".

[Bill R Adams]

Thanks Dave. A little far but if I am up that way..... Anyone in NC? I am close to the border.

[Dave Osoff]

Hardware - I finally received my new HX3 Expander (had a damaged one that needed to be replaced) and I have experimented with the Reverb level control. The level changes are not real time - they do not take affect until you turn that reverb off and then on again. I'll post a note on the HX3 forum. Maybe Carsten can address this in a future firmware update.

 

I set up my DMC-122 controller so that I can turn on Reverb 1,2 and 3 with a button push and then adjust the levels with knobs. So it's almost real time ;-)

 

On another note, I just saw this post on the Keyboardpartner forum:

"The HX3 MIDI expander will support MIDI CC #64 (Hold) as well as MIDI CC #66 (Sostenuto) in the future. We expect to implement this feature in the next major revision. So there will be no need for an external box."

 

Good news - many folks have been requesting this feature for a long time. Some have been using Midi Solutions boxes as a roundabout solution.

[hardware]

Good, I know that I am running things right.

Appreciate your reply.

 

I am in heaven though.

Had a custom Drawbar controller made for me using 32bit MIDI, and incredibly precise controls over every drawbar movement.

 

Starting points lag times and destination on each drawbar is separate.

The LED on my HX-3 never gets a chance to default the look of a preset.

Im too busy modulating everything.

Leslie Throb is really fun to have maxxed out only when drawbars have been expanded by the expression Pedal.

I can get the exact awesome Gospel sound of Reverend Cleophus Robinsons Organist from the 70s. The guy had the most awesome fast rotor vibe going.

 

http://s2.postimg.org/7wul972yx/HX3.jpg

online photo storage

[analogholic]

On another note, I just saw this post on the Keyboardpartner forum:

"The HX3 MIDI expander will support MIDI CC #64 (Hold) as well as MIDI CC #66 (Sostenuto) in the future. We expect to implement this feature in the next major revision. So there will be no need for an external box."

 

Good news - many folks have been requesting this feature for a long time. Some have been using Midi Solutions boxes as a roundabout solution.

 

That is really good news!

For some live projects where I do lot´s of stuff, I really need it.

 

Btw, how can you get around this with Midi Solutions boxes?

[Kurt W]

It is not possible to use a Midi Solution midi event processor to obtain the sustain/hold function. Made a request to the manufacturer about it.

 

I am using a Voce Drawbar unit as controller for the expander which respond in realtime to adjustment of reverb level.

[Mr McRiff]

Both Hold and Sostenuto (sic) will be implemented with the next major firmware update, according to this info:

 

http://forum.keyboardpartner.de/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=460&start=30

[analogholic]

It is not possible to use a Midi Solution midi event processor to obtain the sustain/hold function. Made a request to the manufacturer about it.

 

Yeah, I´m pretty sure I asked Midi Solutions about this a long time ago too...

 

Thought maybe they had come out with something new when I saw

Dave Osoff´s post...

[hardware]

I am using a Voce Drawbar unit as controller for the expander which respond in realtime to adjustment of reverb level.

 

Please explain what you mean by real time...

 

Just to make sure I mean I cannot adjust the settings from less to more, but can call up a preset where different levels have been previously stored.

 

I can watch the Organ Module LED and see that the settings are changing by using selected controller(s)...but the sound does not change until you manually move said parameters on the Organ Module interface.

 

Also agree there's no sustain capabilities.

I often need to sustain the lower/upper manual while physically doing a filter swep on Solaris Ribbon COntroller or even change a preset.

 

Solaris has a button for sustain which is nice, I plan on using buttons for the HX-3 sustain when it becomes available.

 

I am quite satisfied with the instrument.

I spend thousands on gear, sometimes have to save for months if it costs 5-6 large.

This is by far the best piece of under 1000 buck hardware I can remember purchasing since the BCF-2000.

[Kurt W]

Please explain what you mean by real time...

 

Just to make sure I mean I cannot adjust the settings from less to more, but can call up a preset where different levels have been previously stored.

By realtime I mean I can adjust the reverb level by turning a knob on the Voce Midi Drawbar continously from no reverb to max reverb without touching the HX3.

[Doerfler]

Please explain what you mean by real time...

 

By realtime I mean I can adjust the reverb level by turning a knob on the Voce Midi Drawbar continously from no reverb to max reverb without touching the HX3.

 

wish I could do that with my XK3 controller, maybe I can but don't know how? :idk

[hardware]

Please explain what you mean by real time...

 

Just to make sure I mean I cannot adjust the settings from less to more, but can call up a preset where different levels have been previously stored.

By realtime I mean I can adjust the reverb level by turning a knob on the Voce Midi Drawbar continously from no reverb to max reverb without touching the HX3.

 

Well that means Reverb 1/2/3 do not need to be fixed.

I just need to figure out why a clone can do something a Physis K4 or BCF 2000 cannot do.

On each unit I can use 7 bit 14 bit and no joy.

On the software side via MIDI Port 2 I have 24bit and 32bit MIDI and no joy.

 

Only difference I see is the final troubleshooting option of choices on the MIDI Page.

I assume you have keys into MIDI plus the Voce hardware using 2nd port (MIDI In).

 

Which of the 3 options are you using?

 

Thanks

[OB Dave]

Please explain what you mean by real time...

 

Just to make sure I mean I cannot adjust the settings from less to more, but can call up a preset where different levels have been previously stored.

 

Stated another way: if you map reverb level to a knob on your controller, and reverb on/off to a button, if you twist the knob you won't hear the new reverb setting until you turn reverb off and on again. No need to change presets. Not ideal but also not the end of the world. My understanding is that reverb was fairly recently added so hopefully this will be improved in a subsequent firmware release.

 

I'm a little late to the party but I finally got around to tinkering with the HX3 yesterday. I ended up mapping a bunch of controls on my Stage 2 to analogous functions on the HX3, and I'm enjoying it a lot. It's quite fun to play. The only thing I haven't wrapped my head around is: most clonewheels break overdrive, volume, and expression out into three separate controls. It seems the HX3 combines overdrive and volume into the 122_volume parameter. I'm looking forward to busting it out at tomorrow's gig and I'll have a better sense for how that plays out.

[hardware]

OK.

Makes even more sense to me now.

I had assumed somebody was having a better go of things.

I think I'll just stick to having a splash on for all sound.

Then just use realtime parameter modulation on the Fireworx Reverb Algo.

Really like having a different sound for percussive work (more verb) then dragging it back so the fast rotors and drawbars swelling are dryer.

What a picky little bitch I am 'eh..?

 

Cheerz

[OB Dave]

What a picky little bitch I am 'eh..?

We all are. It would certainly explain why a lot of us are on our eighth or tenth clone.