Yamaha CP4 - first impressions

[Danny Linguini]

Re-re-awakening this old thread (can we call it Lazarus yet?). It's taken me a few days, but I've gotten through the whole thing. Wow, what a learning experience. I am truly humbled at the depths some of you guys dive to. Very enlightening... and entertaining.

 

Anyway, as I'm very close to pulling the trigger on a new board, I'm curious to hear more feedback from guys who had recently bought a CP4 as of this threads last post, or if anyone else has taken the plunge since.

 

 

[WesG]

Hey, glad you dug this one up. I am also strongly considering a CP4. I need a new weighted 88. I played a CP4 in the store, side by side with a CP40, and for me there is no comparison. I started looking at CP4s when I played a CP5 last year. I just blown away by the action.

 

Wes

[JeffLearman]

I love mine.

 

If you want a great piano with a great action, great epianos, and a handful of other useful sounds, with easy-to-use split+layer, it's hard to beat. Its organs are useless.

 

If you want a 3- or 4-zone controller, look elsewhere, unless you plan to program all features using external software. On paper it has "4 zones" as a controller, but due to one glaring omission, using any more than 2 zones requires external processing & MIDI loopback. In that case, you get to use up to three internal sounds, each on a different MIDI channel.

 

Two differences between CP4 and CP40:

1) CP40 has two pianos, CP4 has three. The one missing from the CP40 is the best one, IMHO. I pretty much never use the other two. I might be happy with the second best, though; it's not bad.

 

2) The CP40 has split OR layer. The CP4 has split AND layer. That is, if you split, you can still layer the right side of the keyboard. (And if you're driving it from MIDI, CP40 has only two sounds, each on a different MIDI channel.)

 

I'm glad I got the CP4.

 

If anyone wants the zone feature fixed so you could (for example) set up 3 zones where two are internal and the third is external, without using MIDI loopback, go to yamahasynth.com's CP4/40 section, and add your voice to my feature request, which Bad Mister doesn't seem to think much of.

[Marko in Boston]

New CP4 review at SOS. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb15/articles/yamaha-cp4-stage.htm

 

 

[Dave Bryce]

Guys -

 

PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO SPAMMERS.

 

It makes it harder for me to find the posts and clean them up. Then, I have to manually delete yours as well....

 

dB

[WesG]

Jeff - I'd actually be happy with a DGX-620 that had a great action and a great rock piano. It's getting time to replace this one, I have about worn it out.

 

I went through the voice list of the CP4 and it seems like I should be able t get the sounds out of it I want. Mostly pianos and strings in a rock band context. Some brass, some new age 80s pads. I am not a real synthy guy, for sings that need synths in use a VR09. For organs I play wood.

 

"Fargo" is missing from the Cp4 patch list, though. That's too bad. I like its aggressive undulating nature.

 

Wes

[WesG]

SOS review is behind a paywall. Not sure I want to pony up for page 2, when page 1 has such a glaring error. The wood in the NW action is not a veneer! (Unless my understanding is way out to lunch?)

[Marko in Boston]

Guys -

 

PLEASE DO NOT RESPOND TO SPAMMERS.

 

It makes it harder for me to find the posts and clean them up. Then, I have to manually delete yours as well....

 

dB

 

 

My bad - sorry.

[Theo Verelst]

The Usb midi doesn't work on Linux, the standard sounds are often a bit lame, and Imo contain strange elements that might work good on certain two way speakers with a couple of chords.

 

But, just like solid and accurate keyboard suggests, there's serious musical power and strong sounds under the hood, also for lots of other sounds than nicely harmonically interpolated A & E piano's with up to stunning amp simulations (unlike most others I've heard these can work deep beyond the omnipresent standard crunch, and in line with pro studio norms). You need to experiment a bit though to get where most sounds become rich wide and very musical, by layering+eq-ing, changing chorus and reverb kind and accurately adjusting them, or take piano 9 like I did yesterday, adjust some resonance in the filter, a ticks cutoff down, few clicks of the envelope attack, dial in ample room effect, and add more than a snuff of phaser effect: play a classical Midi file on the machine, perhaps add some Lexicon and you're out of sample gloom and could swear you're listening to a grand piano (provided you have wide range and low distortion monitoring)!

 

T.V.

[Jazz+]

+1 on CP4 having the best key action/response AND tones for piano, and Rhodes sounds that sound very full bodied and present in live settings.

[Dana.]

New CP4 review at SOS. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb15/articles/yamaha-cp4-stage.htm

 

"my subjective impression is of a relatively shallow action"

 

I don't agree with this, especially compared to the CP1/CP5. Odd, considering Robin reviewed the CP1.

[CEB]

...

 

If you want a 3- or 4-zone controller, look elsewhere, unless you plan to program all features using external software. On paper it has "4 zones" as a controller, but due to one glaring omission, using any more than 2 zones requires external processing & MIDI loopback. In that case, you get to use up to three internal sounds, each on a different MIDI channel.

 

Two differences between CP4 and CP40:

1) CP40 has two pianos, CP4 has three. The one missing from the CP40 is the best one, IMHO. I pretty much never use the other two. I might be happy with the second best, though; it's not bad.

 

2) The CP40 has split OR layer. The CP4 has split AND layer. That is, if you split, you can still layer the right side of the keyboard. (And if you're driving it from MIDI, CP40 has only two sounds, each on a different MIDI channel.)

 

I'm glad I got the CP4.

 

If anyone wants the zone feature fixed so you could (for example) set up 3 zones where two are internal and the third is external, without using MIDI loopback, go to yamahasynth.com's CP4/40 section, and add your voice to my feature request, which Bad Mister doesn't seem to think much of.

 

Thanks a lot. This post helps me a lot I think. I read the manual and zones 2 and 3 seemed very restrictive in the documentation. One zone is for a layer tone and the other is for a split tone. And I was curious if you were truly locked into that.

 

I wanted 3-4 zones that are anything goes: internal-external- fully assignable range ranges ect... I was willing to sacrifice one zone for the Yamaha action and EPs. But you have helped me determine if I go with 2015 'Option B' I need to choose the MP7 over the CP4. But I love Yamaha EPs.

[JeffLearman]

The problem with more than two zones is that you can't set a zone to not send to the internal sound engine.

 

That is, you can set up the keyboard with a split, and with a layer on the top side of the split, three patches in all. That's fine.

 

But if you want to set up a third zone to play an external module and NOT play an internal sound, you can't. Well, you can, but the only way to do this is to put the whole keyboard in LOCAL OFF mode (so it ignores keyboard input) and have the external module figure out which MIDI events to echo back (and which MIDI channel to send them on: Main is always X, layer is always X+1, and split is always X+2. X is settable, defaults to 1.) LOCAL on/off is a global setting.

 

For this reason, when my soul band has a reunion gig in April, I'll be hauling out my trusty 1997 Ensoniq MR76, because I have two songs where I need 3 zones, and I don't want to have to do all the thinking and fiddling I'd have to do to get it to work on the CP4. If it had the ability to set local-off for zones, I'd use my laptop for the 3rd tier and be good.

 

Not that it's a fair comparison. The MR76 is a workstation; the CP4 is a stage piano. The controller feature isn't useless by any means, I have a number of setups where I layer on laptop, and I dig it. But I stick to a single split point.

 

[DaBous]

One workaround to this problem is to set the gain on the local sound to zero.

 

That effectively turns it off.

 

Then you can use that zone to control an external module without an internal sound triggering.

 

 

[Aidan]

One of the strongest points about the CP4 (apart from the great keyboard feel and relatively light weight) is three piano samples which not only sound acceptable, but actually very good in mono.

[Danny Linguini]

Zones and stuff are not an issue for me -- I use just the one keyboard, no MIDI (except for the very rare occasion that I drag along the harmonizer). I probably use my favorite grand piano alone about 80% of the time; a handful of songs I'll layer a string or string pad; a couple of songs I layer AP and a EP, and a couple of songs I layer an acoustic guitar over the piano. Another two or three songs I use just an EP. Only one custom program uses three layers -- I have two AP's, one an octave up but cut way down, and a pad (for Clocks - hey, there's only two of us, so I gotta fill it up any way I can, and it works). But I can probably easily get away with one bright AP or a good electric grand and a pad for that. I'm all for keeping it simple.

 

When I was in the 4-piece classic pop/rock band, I went a little nuts with the Korg M50 with all kinds of splits and layers and arpeggiators and stuff, but even then I didn't get much into MIDI-ing pieces. Too complicated for my simple brain to keep track of.

 

But I digest ... point is, for me, the simpler, the better. I don't care to go diving into the weeds -- I'm too old for that now!

[Dave Ferris]

After playing all the usual suspects at NAMM today- the CP4 imo is still at the top of the heap for portable stage pianos with regard to both sound and action.

 

The only thing that is superior is the MP11. And that's the action. Regarding the the sound-Kawai was "at it again" in using cheap phones for both the MP11 & 7.

They were Sennheisers , but a very low end model that did nothing for the sound except make it strident in different registers.. You really couldn't get an accurate sonic idea of what was going on.

 

Plus you had to play the MP11 & 7 standing up ?! It's not the GC. I mean c'mon Kawai, you guys are piano people, what's up with that ?

 

[dreamer65]

I'm in for a CP 400 with JUST these pianos + string resonance and sampled e-pianos on Kurz Forte Level and without any other extra stuff for 1800 $. Put a used NE4D on top and I''m good. Blind order, if it would exist. Anybody with me?

[Bobadohshe]

After playing all the usual suspects at NAMM today- the CP4 imo is still at the top of the heap for portable stage pianos with regard to both sound and action.

 

The only thing that is superior is the MP11. And that's the action. Regarding the the sound-Kawai was "at it again" in using cheap phones for both the MP11 & 7.

They were Sennheisers , but a very low end model that did nothing for the sound except make it strident in different registers.. You really couldn't get an accurate sonic idea of what was going on.

 

Plus you had to play the MP11 & 7 standing up ?! It's not the GC. I mean c'mon Kawai, you guys are piano people, what's up with that ?

 

Had 100% the same experience and impressions on Thursday at NAMM.

 

I was impressed as well with the extremely logical layout for the MP11. Three different dedicated sections for Piano, Pad/Strings and Electric piano, and you could layer all three.

[Danny Linguini]

Almost made a huge mistake -- an ad popped up on my fb page for the CP4 at zZounds. Click on the ad, page comes up, and I see $1,699.

I click on the 'Blemish' tab to make sure I'm not getting a blem, and price drops to $1,499. Check. Click back on 'New', back to $1,699. Complete the order, get the order confirmation email, and it's the CP40. It looks just like the CP4 (if you don't count the program buttons and EQ sliders), so idiot that I am I didn't bother to look at the actual model number. It also said there were only two left, so I figured that had something to do with the low price. Duh. Got right on the phone and (very politely) cancelled the order, which zZounds did promptly.

Boy do I feel dumb. And I have no idea why I feel compelled to share my stupidity, but there it is.

[Danny Linguini]

Part II: With zZounds sufficiently whetting my itch now, there was no turning back. So the quest continued. With the online dealers having the CP4 for the same price, I gave ebay a shot just for giggles. Found one that was used as a display unit at a trade show, never turned on, never touched by anyone other than the dealer who's selling it, like new and still with the 1-year factory warranty for $1,839.99.

It should be here by next Tuesday.

[Jazz+]

Go to the GC store head manager with hard cash in hand and and tell him this is what you will give him right now without any fuss to take it out the front door. Let him take care of the tax. They will usually go for it since it is a fast and easy transaction for cash.

[Suppport Guy]

We were very impressed by what this guy was able to program on his CP4.

 

 

 

[Bobadohshe]

We were very impressed by what this guy was able to program on his CP4.

 

 

 

Just watched all 16 min. Impressive - especially his use of dual volume pedals to control layer parts.

[WesG]

Suppport Guy === Bad Mister?

 

If so, tell your Yamaha overlords to start putting "Fargo" into higher end keyboards, okay? I'm serious, I keep thinking about getting another DGX because I love that stupid patch.

 

BTW great demo. Oooooh the GAS.... it is killing me!!

 

And how the hell did he do the vocals for Superstition on the CP4?? Is there a vocoder in there I didn't know about?

 

Are this guy's "new sounds" really new sounds, or just new performances?

[Danny Linguini]

Go to the GC store head manager with hard cash in hand and and tell him this is what you will give him right now without any fuss to take it out the front door. Let him take care of the tax. They will usually go for it since it is a fast and easy transaction for cash.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. But ... my local GC doesn't stock it, so I'd have to pay first, have it shipped to the store and pick it up there. The only benefit is that I can get it right there at the store and bring it back there if I have any issues. I'm not sure, however, if they'd go for it being that they'd have to ship from another store AND the price I'm quoting them is for an open box item. Ordinarily it sure couldn't hurt to ask; except that I've already paid for this one. Since it's only coming from Buffalo, there's a good chance it will be at my front door about the same time that GC would get it. (That is, as long as we don't get another snow storm the size of which the morons at the Weather Channel would feel compelled to give a name to. )

[Bobadohshe]

And how the hell did he do the vocals for Superstition on the CP4?? Is there a vocoder in there I didn't know about?

 

He can't have. He used lots of stuff from out of the box for his loops.

[Danny Linguini]

We were very impressed by what this guy was able to program on his CP4.

 

 

 

Thanks alot. I drooled all over my keyboard.

[Pa Gherkin]

Although I have it far easier logistically than many here, finding a CP4 in my area on which to form a first impression has proved a little difficult. My local GC (Orange,CT.) branch has none on display but can special order me one. Even old school stalwart Sam Ash in New Haven told me to go into Manhattan. One sales guy told me"Our typical customer doesn't come in here looking to buy a $2000 keyboard." I guess that's a situation they've decided to perpetuate. My,how things have changed. While understandable and not at all a surprise ,it's lamentable nonetheless.

 

As for online stores liberal return policies,the last Yamaha DP I bought from Sweetwater cost me $136 Fedex bucks to return because it wasn't defective. It just sounded lousy in mono. This was an under 30 pound instrument. When I told my "sales engineer" what it cost me to return my non defective,lousy in mono piano he just shrugged it off and asked if there was anything else with which he could help me. Lesson learned. No more untried larger size purchases online. Although Sweetwater has been quite good to deal with I learned that a 3 hour round trip into Manhattan or upstate N.Y. is well worth the time and effort. Despite the liberal return policy this was a somewhat pricey road test. I appreciate the opportunity to share the other side of the liberal return policy coin here. Hopefully someone else here might benefit from this little story.

 

Based on most of what I've read on this forum I may well want a CP4. As soon as I get the time in Manhattan or take a trip to Middletown N.Y.,Ill be glad to file first impressions of the CP4 here.

[LX88]

I also played the CP4 plus the Kawais and Rolands... I agree that the CP4 is the one to have , sound wise.

 

But I was also able to try the VI Labs Ravenscroft software. T really like what they are doing with this. It has some interesting features like mic placement and room distance that really set it apart.

 

The controller being used with this was a modified Kawai. With the modification it winds up being quite expensive ( 4k for the controller) but after playing that set up some very expensive boards paled in comparison.