Roland V-Combo VR-09

[franky64]

VR 'GM2' sound engine: worth to be used

 

during the work on ctrlr editor the 'internal GM2 engine' of VR came under heavy investigation
The GM2 engine is a sound engine independent from 'VR keyboard engine and can be played using an external key (e.g. master controller, keytar, ...)

The advantages might be:

- no risk of the external key 'messing up' the VR settings as the GM2 engine is independent from VR engine

- VR GM2 sounds can be assigned (layered) to various zones of an external key

- VR GM2 engine has own types of effects (different type of chorus, classic midi vibrato etc)

- VR GM2 engine has A LOT of sounds not available in VR engine, for example (complex) synth sounds or usuable 'CP 70' electric grands

- VR GM2 engine also has all 'synthesizer-sounds' of VR SYNTH section and the entire range of  'ATELIER' and 'Synth Legends Tones' of the VR-engine

 

 

 

=> how to find the GM2 sounds:

 

a) with the aid of ctrlr editor editor: it shows an overview of all (yet known) GM2 sounds and can (temporarily) load the GM2-sounds from GM2-engine into VR-engine for 'exploring' and 'testing'. If you found 'your sound', read "bank select + program change" numbers shown in editor and transfer them to the external (midi) keyboard.

 

b) by browsing program change 'ranges', examples:

 

msb    lsb    program

0-15     0       1-128    :  'Standard Roland GM2/GS' sound set like in HP and LX pianos

117        0      1-128    : VR synth sounds (all VA-synthesizable sounds from VR SYNTH and PIANO section)

117        1       1-128    : SLT (Synth Legend Tones)

80-95   0      1-128    : ATELIER soundset: get program changes from 'ATELIER organ midi implementation manual' and add '80' to the 'msb' values
120      0-1    1-128    : 'official' VR GM2 DRUMKITS (see Roland VR midi implementation manual)

121       0-1    1-128    : 'official' VR GM2 sounds (see Roland VR midi implementation manual)

 

=> midi 'effects' applyable to GM2:

VR GM2 engine accepts a number of classic midi effects like chorus, reverb, vibrato, portamento, expression/volume, transpose, filter, envelope, mono/poly ....  see 'List of classic ...':     https://v-combo.webspace.rocks/midi

 

 

[weegeebored]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:04 AM, franky64 said:

Hi,

news about VR:

* 'pishing warning'  of v-combo website: 'Big Brother' Google erratically put the webstite onto their 'black list' databases  After protest it was removed within a day 
 

FYI -- as of the time of this post, Malwarebytes still blocks the site. I have it whitelisted but I thought readers would like to know. Thanks for the incredible work you do @franky64.   I have just started to use the editor, and the VR-09 is like a brand new keyboard.

[franky64]

13 minutes ago, weegeebored said:

FYI -- as of the time of this post, Malwarebytes still blocks the site. I have it whitelisted but I thought readers would like to know. Thanks for the incredible work you do @franky64.   I have just started to use the editor, and the VR-09 is like a brand new keyboard.

ah ja, there've been 1 or 2 reports of antivirus software not loving the site. De facto there is no reason - the website only contains pure text and some jpegs  - no archives, no videos, no executables (which are anyway not allowed by the hoster), it does not ask for passwords nor credit card numbers ...
Editor: it's just a tool to access the 'VR hidden features',  the 'added value' comes from Roland (even if this was an unintentional 'accident'   ) - and yeah, without those hidden features I personally would have swapped from VR09 to Hammond SK1 (because of its by far better organ sound and more pleasant pianos)

 

[nadroj]

Reviving this behemoth thread to get some updated thoughts. 
 

I’ve no gigs until February, but after that we’re out almost every weekend until the end of the year, all over the country in new venues doing bigger shows, including a couple of fly ins/ferry trips to mainland Europe. We’re slowly adding new songs to the set to make the show better, and the Electro limitations are becoming more and more annoying with every added song (sampling individual sounds, then throwing them into the sample editor, assigning them across the keyboard and then not having velocity on them live, etc). The MODX isn’t coming with me on this gig, as I’d end up schlepping too much gear for the travelling (we’re an 8 piece) and it would simply be over kill for 90% of the setlist. Besides, as I’ve said several times: I don’t like playing it 🤓
 

I’ve had a couple of interested parties in the MODX, and the VR-730 is one of the few keyboards in my budget, assuming the Yamaha sells (or gets traded in). The Vox Continental is a contender too, and while it’s probably more “pristine” and maybe even more enjoyable to play, it’s very limited in its capabilities, especially when you throw Franks VR editor into the mix. I also think I prefer Roland’s organ/latest rotary sim to Korg’s CX-3, which is a sentence I can’t believe I just wrote. How times change. 
 

I’ve tried the VR-730 out in store and I was able get the organ to a sound I’d be happy-ish with live. There were a couple of frequencies I didn’t like, but I didn’t edit too deeply. The APs and EPs are more than ok for band work IMO (the “GrandV” Pianos played/felt much better than the original VR09 ones), and the TP-80 felt pretty much identical to the TP-80 in the Electro 4. However, the cherry on top is the CTRL Editor V-Synth capabilities, which, with the additional splits and layers, are what makes it stand out to me. I spent years programming it on the FA06 and know that system very well. I also love the Roland Synth sounds. With the added depth of Frank’s editor, I could easily programme an entire set on the VR alone, which would make it super flexible any time I wanted to take an extra corporate/wedding gig for the cash (times are tight here in the UK!). 
 

Anyone who still uses the VR09/VR730 - how does it hold up under heavy gigging? Is it still enjoyable to play? Any red flags to ward me away in 2022?

 

I swear by the FC-7 - am I right in saying that 2 paired Y-connectors will solve the issues the VR has with it? 
 

I know NAMM is round the corner, but realistically I can’t see anything coming out that would be in my limited budget. 

[AnotherScott]

3 hours ago, nadroj said:

I also think I prefer Roland’s organ/latest rotary sim to Korg’s CX-3, which is a sentence I can’t believe I just wrote. How times change. 

Yeah, I'd lean Roland over Vox for Hammond/Leslie emulation. Part of the issue is that the Vox does not have nearly all of the tweaking options the Kronos or actual CX3 did, and I don't think its at its best in the Vox incarnation.

 

3 hours ago, nadroj said:

I’ve tried the VR-730 out in store and I was able get the organ to a sound I’d be happy-ish with live. There were a couple of frequencies I didn’t like, but I didn’t edit too deeply. The APs and EPs are more than ok for band work IMO (the “GrandV” Pianos played/felt much better than the original VR09 ones),

I didn't think the VR-730 had any newer-than-original APs (though it does have some newer EPs). Maybe the difference is more how playable they are from the VR730 action compared to the VR09 action?

 

3 hours ago, nadroj said:

the cherry on top is the CTRL Editor V-Synth capabilities, which, with the additional splits and layers, are what makes it stand out to me. I spent years programming it on the FA06 and know that system very well. I also love the Roland Synth sounds. With the added depth of Frank’s editor, I could easily programme an entire set on the VR alone, which would make it super flexible any time I wanted to take an extra corporate/wedding gig

One other possible option could be the Fantom-07, which gives you full editing on board and a lot more flexibility overall. But there are trade-offs, notably 8 sliders vs 9 drawbars, and a lesser action. And I'm not sure exactly how the organ/leslie implementations compare sonically.

[stoken6]

9 hours ago, nadroj said:

sampling individual sounds

Do you need to be able to sample for the gigs you're lined up for? (Or was sampling a way round Electro's limited sound palette, or inflexibility on splits?)

 

Cheers, Mike.

[nadroj]

31 minutes ago, stoken6 said:

Do you need to be able to sample for the gigs you're lined up for? (Or was sampling a way round Electro's limited sound palette, or inflexibility on splits?)

 

Cheers, Mike.

The latter. For a piano/organ split I have to sample the piano, then the organ, then assign them together in the Nord sample editor and load it in as a single sample. Bit of a PITA for something so basic, and as you can imagine the sampled organ usually sounds like ass. Ok in a mix though. 

[Mighty Motif Max]

6 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I didn't think the VR-730 had any newer-than-original APs (though it does have some newer EPs). Maybe the difference is more how playable they are from the VR730 action compared to the VR09 action?

 

One other possible option could be the Fantom-07, which gives you full editing on board and a lot more flexibility overall. But there are trade-offs, notably 8 sliders vs 9 drawbars, and a lesser action. And I'm not sure exactly how the organ/leslie implementations compare sonically.

The better AP’s were a big selling point when the VR-730 came out IIRC. It’s not just the same as the VR-09.

 

I agree that the Fantom-07 would be an excellent choice, provided the 8-drawbar limitation is acceptable. If that is, I’d say that’s easily the best choice in this situation. The VTW tonewheel engine should be the same as in my Fantom 7, which is really quite good, even in comparison to my SK Pro. Especially once you tweak the Leslie parameters a bit.

[stoken6]

15 hours ago, Mighty Motif Max said:

the Fantom-07 would be an excellent choice, provided the 8-drawbar limitation is acceptable

Has anyone established if the 9th drawbar can be assigned to the modulation wheel?

 

Cheers, Mike.

[AnotherScott]

1 hour ago, stoken6 said:

Has anyone established if the 9th drawbar can be assigned to the modulation wheel?

 

That's an interesting idea. I had looked into the idea of using the knob above the 8th slider, and I did come up with an awkward way that might work... I think you'd be able to program that knob to send a MIDI CC that corresponds to the 9th drawbar, and then send MIDI Out back to MIDI In, through an intermediate device (a MIDI Solutions box, iPad, etc.) that could filter out all the rest of the MIDI output so that all you'd be sending in would be that one CC (e.g. not echoing back all your other slider controls for the first 8 drawbars). I didn't look into what options may be available for the mod wheel, if that might provide a better way to go.

[brenner13]

On 10/10/2022 at 9:04 AM, franky64 said:

slow

As for durability, my VR09 has been gigging dirty biker bars, festivals, and pool parties two to three times per month for over NINE years. Aside from a pitch stick going wonky from my extensive abuse, the thing is still going strong. Syntaur fixed me up with a new pitch stick and the install was a breeze. 
 

I’ve tried to replace the board a couple of times with a Numa Compact 2X and a MODX7, but Roland’s little Swiss Army Knife is still my go-to for nearly every show. 
 

VR09 on top of MODX7 makes for a great sounding, lightweight gig rig. Both have crappy keybeds, but I got used to them and can really shred on both. The MODX7 actually has nice dynamics after practicing a bunch.

[stoken6]

3 hours ago, AnotherScott said:

I think you'd be able to program that knob to send a MIDI CC that corresponds to the 9th drawbar, and then send MIDI Out back to MIDI In, through an intermediate device (a MIDI Solutions box, iPad, etc.) that could filter out all the rest of the MIDI output so that all you'd be sending in would be that one CC (e.g. not echoing back all your other slider controls for the first 8 drawbars)

Yeah, I don't like that kind of solution - apart from the complexity, it occupies the MIDI In port, which means you can't plug in a MIDI controller. I was hoping that some kind of built-in modulation matrix capability would be able to solve this problem. (Kurzweil could do it...)

 

Cheers, Mike.

[roygBiv]

4 hours ago, brenner13 said:

As for durability, my VR09 has been gigging dirty biker bars, festivals, and pool parties two to three times per month for over NINE years. Aside from a pitch stick going wonky from my extensive abuse, the thing is still going strong. Syntaur fixed me up with a new pitch stick and the install was a breeze. 
 

I’ve tried to replace the board a couple of times with a Numa Compact 2X and a MODX7, but Roland’s little Swiss Army Knife is still my go-to for nearly every show. 
 

VR09 on top of MODX7 makes for a great sounding, lightweight gig rig. Both have crappy keybeds, but I got used to them and can really shred on both. The MODX7 actually has nice dynamics after practicing a bunch.

Werd.  Same story for mine over the past 8 or 9 years - only durability gripe I can say is the little slider knobs have come off a couple of times.

 

One other comment - I too have pondered replacing my VR09, mainly because of the keyboard feel. 

 

Haven't been able to, as it does just about everything I want, in a very inexpensive, lightweight package (~ 14 lbs). 

 

Side note - I recently went to see our sax-player's funk/jazz band - thought their keyboard player sounded great.  I was shocked to discover  he was playing a VR09 - really sounded good through the house PA.  Talked to him afterwards, and he said it was workign out better for him than his Nord.  Maybe Roland optimizes their boards to also sound great in a live context, who knows.

[franky64]

CTRLR Editor: important Bugfix Release v1.12.16 (please install)

 

VR09/730 EDITOR v1.12.16 adds 'virtual midi keyboard' + important bugfixes:

- added virtual midi keyboard (left main menu [V-KEY]-button)

- Bugfix UPG Editor : multi-select 'copy': fixed crashing when 'insert range' passes registration 25:4

- Bugfix SOUND-KBD Panel: fixed broken SLT sound load (myfault made it dysfunctional in previous release ;)) 

- Bugfix Sound-DIALs: fixed buggy 'patchlist refresh'  + optimised handling

- EDITOR Windows-Standalone ('exe'): fixed all heavy issues when initialising at EDITOR startup
(this release is 'quasi mandatory' for all users of the windows standalone )

 

https://v-combo.webspace.rocks/editor-vr09-730

[franky64]

On 12/15/2022 at 4:49 PM, AnotherScott said:

I didn't think the VR-730 had any newer-than-original APs

 

One other possible option could be the Fantom-07,[...] And I'm not sure exactly how the organ/leslie implementations compare sonically.

APs of 730 and 09: 
identical. The action makes a subtle difference (althought I tried VR09 with different midi-ed actions... famous VR700 Waterfall, SK-1 Waterfall, DP Hammer-Action ... well, don't expect wonders... a shitty Grand is a shitty Grand)
F-0X organ:
basically the same 'timbre'. Finer overtones on a very subtile level (headphones+careful A:B-ing). Rotary like VR09 + VK-8 style rotary MFX (which implies menu-diving)
(+): Roland fixed VR700/09/730 organ retrigger bug - as I'm obviously the only person in world who got grey hair about - forget it
(-) only one 'part': no upper-lower split, no (pedal)-bass. 

[franky64]

On 1/20/2023 at 4:48 AM, franky64 said:

 

TEASER editor v1.12.17 (soon to come....)

- integration of '(Gaia) Sound Designer' (the former CTRLR VR SYNTH panel) into standard ctrlr Editor: an upped GUI for manipulating 'VA-synth'.
- integration of new 'hidden sounds' from ATELIER Organ GS soundlist and Roland 'Sound-Canvas' (from Roland SC modules 8820/8850/D70) 
- bugfix of 'VA waves' in editors V-SYNTH (broken in a previous editor release)
- many bugfixes

 

Example: 'hidden' Sound Canvas sounds of VR  

 

[Paul Woodward]

Just got a VR as a practice board and I’m quite impressed, will be sure to have a play with this when it’s released. Thanks 

[Baggypants]

Well, that sounds nuts.

[To B3]

Anybody used the VR-09 to control the GSi Rotary on the iPad? Are the fast/slow controls of the app assignable to physical controls of the keyboard?

[Delaware Dave]

I think (but not certain) that the rotary is controlled via CC#1 with data values:  0 for slow, 127 for fast, 64 for stop.  Does the VR09 send CC's or sys-ex?  I'm not sure that rotary sim accepts sys ex values for control purposes; you might need a midi solutions box or other alternative in order to convert the Roland  sys-ex to CC values if the VR09 sends sys-ex via midi.

[franky64]

On 3/29/2023 at 8:38 PM, Delaware Dave said:

I think (but not certain) that the rotary is controlled via CC#1 with data values:  0 for slow, 127 for fast, 64 for stop.  Does the VR09 send CC's or sys-ex?  I'm not sure that rotary sim accepts sys ex values for control purposes; you might need a midi solutions box or other alternative in order to convert the Roland  sys-ex to CC values if the VR09 sends sys-ex via midi.

No CC for rotary nor drawbars. There's a list which CCs the VR understands on the indicated website (scroll to 'classic midi signals').
solutions:
-  a 2nd app on ipad that translates VR sysex to GSI-CC (and vice versa),  like TB MidiStuff (5 bucks), keystage, lemur (+/- 20 bucks)
- Midi Solution box (for VR -> Ipad), 150-200 bucks

--
Apropos new Editor : sorry for the delay, yet another series of 'hidden' features saw the daylight and asked for being integrated (brand new from last 2 weeks is local control and bass-to-lower layering with some 'ATELIER bass note accompaniment' magic  )

--
https://v-combo.webspace.rocks/midi

[franky64]

On 4/30/2023 at 2:22 AM, franky64 said:

 

 

 

* update editor: local control was a shot in the foot - so no local control. Reworking of VA-synth still has not come to a satisfying result ...

* VR + 'realtime Arpeggiator' hack with VR09 + Windows laptop + 'BlueArp' VST + ELEMENT vst-host :  

 

[franky64]

Well, it's done.. 

 

CTRLR V-COMBO EDITOR v1.12.17 'Sound Designer' release:

 

Website, Download :   https://v-combo.webspace.rocks/editor-vr09-730

 

Major changes:

- V-SYNTH SOUND DESIGNER for Virtual-Analog synthesizer : the fomer (separate) 'GAIA-inspired' CTRLR SYNTH EDITOR has been integrated into the V-Combo editor

- Redesign of V-SYNTH workplace and workflow

- Fix of V-SYNTH 'PCM waveform'-list (which got 'damaged' in a former release): all 360 waves are working again

- HUNDRETS of new 'hidden' sounds in the GM2-engine: the complete Roland 'Sound Canvas' sound palette, ATELIER GS, all VR factory sounds...

 

ALL NEW FEATURES:

- V-SYNTH Sound Designer (VSSD)

VSSD is an 'extended' working area for the Virtual-Analog Synthesizer for big size/high resolution displays

Look&Feel is inspired by Roland Gaia Sound-Designer

To open V-SYNTH SOUND DESIGNER, load a synthesizable synth-sound, go to V-SYNTH and push the yellow [VSSD] button

- Redesign and simplification of KBD/V-SYNTH patch register

- New GM2 sounds: 'VR Keyboard' sounds, Atelier Organ GS soundset, complete soundset of Roland 'Sound Canvas' modules

- ZONES: new options: 'bass layered with lower' (Z4+3f , Z4+3^) as 'root bass' or 'leading bass'

- ZONES: is now responsive to VR registrations changes

- Harmony Intelligence: added HI-type 'COMBO'

- V-Piano: added 2nd voice and 'reso hall types'

- V-Organ: added indicators for 'organ octave shift'

- V-Organ: added preset for 'pure Twin Rotary' and matching rpm indicators for 'VR Rotary' or 'Pure Twin Rotary'

- FootPedal PK: new PK-footswitch-options 'Glide', 'Leading Bass', 'Fill-in'

- MidiMapper: added 'sysex-to-CC mapping' presets for Organ V/C, Perc, Leslie on/off

- 'pin' button to 'pin' the DIAL screens (like the VR 'transpose button' trick to pin VR LCD screen)

- 'Note Hold' button for V-KEY virtual keyboard

 

ALL BUGFIXES:

- Fixed corrupt PCM waveform list in V-SYNTH

- improved DIAL handling

- Many bugfixes and corrections

 

1) Roland Sound Canvas in VR-GM2-engine  2) 'Sound Designer' workplace for VR virtual analog synth

 

[stoken6]

@franky46 if InMusic come knocking to make you an offer - slam the door in their face! You're far too valuable to the community as an independent.

 

Cheers, Mike.

[Paul Woodward]

Had a VR09 and a Yamaha YC61. Didn’t need both and decided the Yamaha was a better long term keeper. VR is clearly less authentic in piano and organ sounds, but boy did it cut through in a band rehearsal, especially some of the synths. Kinda regret letting it go, especially when I see developments like this.

Very nice work sir 🙂

[franky64]

On 6/16/2023 at 1:37 PM, Paul Woodward said:

Had a VR09 and a Yamaha YC61. Didn’t need both and decided the Yamaha was a better long term keeper. VR is clearly less authentic in piano and organ sounds, but boy did it cut through in a band rehearsal, especially some of the synths. Kinda regret letting it go, especially when I see developments like this.

 

the 2000 (??? stopped counting...) GM/SoundCanvas sounds are cumbersome  to use (although there are very fine sounds as 'Suitcase', PhaseRhodes, all the vintage synth patches ...), but the extended 'VR registration savable' layering (and 4 zones split) are a big plus: recently layered 2 Alto Saxes from 'standard' soundset and hidden Atelier sounds  - much fatter and realistic (solo sax) sound than any 'single' patch.  In exchange one has to deal with bad Grands and a rather cheasy & buggy organ ....

[Baggypants]

I kind of love that cheesy buggy organ though. ☺️

[Keyboardbill]

I tried to get to "https://v-combo.webspace.rocks/organ-settings" and get an error message. Likewise on even the top page "https://v-combo.webspace.rocks".

 

Secure Connection Failed

An error occurred during a connection to v-combo.webspace.rocks. PR_END_OF_FILE_ERROR

Error code: PR_END_OF_FILE_ERROR

    The page you are trying to view cannot be shown because the authenticity of the received data could not be verified.
    Please contact the website owners to inform them of this problem.

 

I'm sure it's my laptop but can't figure out what to change so I can get to these sites.

 

Any help would be appreciated.

 

[franky64]

1 hour ago, Keyboardbill said:

I'm sure it's my laptop but can't figure out what to change so I can get to these sites.

 

it's your laptop 
there are sometimes problems either with fanaticised anti-virus software or with older Macbooks that do not handle up to date 'security certificates' anymore.
Your case seems to be firefox specific. Maybe try another browser or apply the 'fixes' mentionend on the website below.
If this does not help we can add a 'link' where at least you can download the editor software.

https://kinsta.com/knowledgebase/pr-end-of-file-error/

[franky64]

RELEASE: EDITOR v1.12.18 important hotfix

OVERVIEW:
A major bug has been fixed that opens a warn popups when a sound is loaded into solo, lower manual or bass voices
Minor bugfixes and improvements

ALL NEW FEATURES:
- VKEY: removed (x) 'close button' : VKEY closes now by pressing again the left menu [VKEY] button
- External Program launcher config: setting the 'path' for 'Windows Apps' (from MS store) massively simplified
- Added 'welcome' for new editor releases

ALL BUGFIXES:
- Fixed major bug that opens a warn popup when a sound is loaded into solo, lower manual or bass voices
- Fixed minor bug in MidiMapper 'V-organ' (missing 'rotary on/off' rule)

Download:
https://v-combo.webspace.rocks/editor-vr09-730

Direct download for those who have troubles to acces the webpage:https://drive.google.com/drive/u/1/folders/1_CJVGF0tACCxr1m0Y5yw7YLWEg1bvMF0