Craig MacDonald Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yes, you probably made a mistake. Well, perhaps. I have two Kronos 61s and a Kurzweil PC3K6. I love the sound of the Hammond, but I would only use it live to play Genesis stuff and I think I've got that covered with the CX-3 engine in the Kronos. I think I'd love to have a new toy, but it would mean carrying an extra keyboard, stand, pedals, power, etc. I think I'll call over there and see if it's still on the floor. Bill have you loaded the new OS and the free KRS-06 organs into your Kronos? If you haven't done that you should.. the new CX3 engine is much improved. It's like night and day when you compare the original Kronos organ patches (which I hated) with the new update and the KRS-06 organs. Hammonddave had some input on the new patches. Quote Craig MacDonald Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 @ Bill W, That's a lovely staysail schooner in your avatar, are you a sailor? I am not. I took that picture on my honeymoon in Greece. Quote Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 It is odd, in this day and age, that Hammond would only include a twerpy little 25M for its libraries! About half the new library voices will fit on at a time, I have found. "68K, that should be enough for ANYONE!" Steve Jobs, 1982 "25M, that's plenty of memory for voices!" Hammond/Susuki, 2011 No you can't load only a couple of instruments from a library or delete the ones you won't use. There are a couple of libraries that have smaller versions with only a couple of the instruments in them. It is my understanding that the original plan for the SK series was that it would be an organ/piano combination - AP, EP, Wurli and Rhodes and after it was technically designed someone in marketing said "You know what we should do? Add a bunch of other voices". The memory was enough for the original plan but not for adding a lot of libraries. One workaround would be to organize setups with patches that only use one or two libraries and save them as Whole setups. Small whole setup files don't take long to load. Also, System libraries can't be removed to make room for other user installed libraries. The system and user libraries aren't stored in the same memory block so clearing them out wouldn't make more room for user libraries anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Yes, you probably made a mistake. Well, perhaps. I have two Kronos 61s and a Kurzweil PC3K6. I love the sound of the Hammond, but I would only use it live to play Genesis stuff and I think I've got that covered with the CX-3 engine in the Kronos. I think I'd love to have a new toy, but it would mean carrying an extra keyboard, stand, pedals, power, etc. I think I'll call over there and see if it's still on the floor. Bill have you loaded the new OS and the free KRS-06 organs into your Kronos? If you haven't done that you should.. the new CX3 engine is much improved. It's like night and day when you compare the original Kronos organ patches (which I hated) with the new update and the KRS-06 organs. Hammonddave had some input on the new patches. Craig -- Yes, I have the new OS and KRS-06 loaded into both of my machines and it is a vast improvement. I don't think it's in the same league with the SK1, but that really depends on what it's being used for I guess. I've managed to dial in some decent sounds for most of the material we do, but it doesn't seem ballsy enough for other songs (like Watcher of the Skies). I swapped my PC3K6 for a PC3K7 (which arrives tomorrow), so I'll have to experiment with that as well. Quote Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Bill The Kronos CX-3 is NOWHERE NEAR the sound you get from an SK-1. You NEED this keyboard for Genesis sounds, believe me R Alan Gee, Thanks, Alan....you're not helping matters. Quote Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FJR Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Thanks for that clarity JMcS! Strange implementation, in my opinion. But maybe its an 'organ/clonewheel' thing. I've not paid too much attention to how drawbar info is sent, until now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 Thanks for that clarity JMcS! Strange implementation, in my opinion. But maybe its an 'organ/clonewheel' thing. I've not paid too much attention to how drawbar info is sent, until now. The way they do it greatly reduces the amount of MIDI data that is sent/received. Using one CC# per manual you can grab several drawbars and send at most a couple dozen data numbers over the course of a second or so. With the 1 CC 0 - 127 per drawbar method it is hundreds. When sending this along with note on/off and expression etc. data some instruments choke on it and notes don't trigger when pressed or stay on after released, expression changes don't happen in sync with pedal movement etc. I had a Kurz. module that would do this. I think MIDI Solutions has a box that can be programmed to translate the 1 CC per manual method into the individual CCs if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig MacDonald Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Craig -- Yes, I have the new OS and KRS-06 loaded into both of my machines and it is a vast improvement. I don't think it's in the same league with the SK1, but that really depends on what it's being used for I guess. I've managed to dial in some decent sounds for most of the material we do, but it doesn't seem ballsy enough for other songs (like Watcher of the Skies). I swapped my PC3K6 for a PC3K7 (which arrives tomorrow), so I'll have to experiment with that as well. Bill, OK just wanted to make sure.. I agree that for traditional Hammond sounds, the SK is still takes it, but the gap has narrowed significantly with the new Kronos OS update. One other thing to keep in mind is that the Kronos has the unique ability to layer two separate CX3 engines in one program as well as the EX voices, and between that and the Kronos TFX/MFX, the Kronos/CX3 can go places that the SK will never get to. Personally, I find the Kronos to be excellent for achieving a lot of prog rock sounds. Good luck with your PC3K7! Quote Craig MacDonald Hammond BV, Franken-B (A100 in a BV cabinet), Leslies 122/147/44W, Crumar Mojo, HX3 module, Korg Kronos, VR-09, Roland GAIA, Burn, Ventilator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 All great points...thanks, Craig. I've decided to pass on the SK1 but hopefully it'll find a good home. The thing about Genesis is that Tony only used the Leslie at chorale speed. I haven't found a CX-3 setting that really shows off the sound of the horn at chorale or tremolo. It seems to get buried. I'll see what the Kurzweil has to offer and if I can't come up with something satisfying, I'll just grab another Vent (sold my first one). Quote Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losendoskeys Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Bill The Kronos CX-3 is NOWHERE NEAR the sound you get from an SK-1. You NEED this keyboard for Genesis sounds, believe me R Alan Gee, Thanks, Alan....you're not helping matters. We aim for the truth Quote Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB Dave Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 The way they do it greatly reduces the amount of MIDI data that is sent/received. Using one CC# per manual you can grab several drawbars and send at most a couple dozen data numbers over the course of a second or so. With the 1 CC 0 - 127 per drawbar method it is hundreds. This is only true if you send all 128 CC values, which isn't necessary for Hammond drawbars. The way everybody else handles this: map MIDI CC data values 0 thru 15 to Drawbar Position 0, 16 to 31 to Drawbar Position 1, and so on. You only need to send a new MIDI CC value when the drawbar moves from one drawbar position/zone to another. Never owned a Kurz, maybe they didn't get the memo? But Kurzweils certainly respond correctly when controlled in this manner. The Hammond-Suzuki method does not save any MIDI data at all, it just makes it more difficult to control their instruments with a standard controller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 The Hammonds do respond to the other method. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB Dave Posted January 7, 2014 Share Posted January 7, 2014 Oh is that so? Ha, so it is. I guess I'm the one that didn't get the memo. But I don't think this was true of the XK series so this is something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted January 7, 2014 Author Share Posted January 7, 2014 The XM-2 and XK-3c do. I don't remember if the XK-3 does. The XK-1 doesn't. I programmed a Peavey PC1600x to send both versions years ago but it always sent the whole 0 - 127 range when using the individual CC# method. I don't know if I could have programmed it to do differently. The Hammond method was easy enough to program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 I'll bite. Where? Bob I just saw a new "floor model" SK-1 on sale $999 at GC here in Vegas at the Town Center location. I would buy it in a New York second but I already have one (and I can't afford another divorce). Quote Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It would appear that any Guitar Center that has one is selling them for $999.97. The one I passed on is in Rockville, MD. Quote Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSS Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 It would appear that any Guitar Center that has one is selling them for $999.97. The one I passed on is in Rockville, MD. Hmmm... I wonder if GC is clearing them out because they aren't able to sell them. Perhaps SK's are too much of a one-trick-pony for the typical GC cliental, even with their extra sounds. Quote Gigs: Nord 5D 73, Kurz PC4-7 & SP4-7, Hammond SK1, Yamaha MX88 & P121, Numa Compact 2x, Casio CGP700, QSC K12, Yamaha DBR10, JBL515xt(2). Alto TS310(2) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted January 8, 2014 Share Posted January 8, 2014 Hmmm... I wonder if GC is clearing them out because they aren't able to sell them. Perhaps SK's are too much of a one-trick-pony for the typical GC cliental, even with their extra sounds. That would be my guess. The salesman said this one has been there for as long as he could remember. There are some minor scratches on the ends, but it's in excellent shape otherwise. I may end up buying the damn thing yet. Quote Korg Kronos 61 (2); Kurzweil PC4, Roland Fantom-06, Casio PX-350M; 2015 Macbook Pro and 2012 Mac Mini (Logic Pro X and Mainstage), GigPerformer 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baD mR fRosTy Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 @ Bill W, That's a lovely staysail schooner in your avatar, are you a sailor? I am not. I took that picture on my honeymoon in Greece. ah...a traveller and a romantic. We'll make ye a honorary schoonerman! Tony banks only used the slow setting...that's interesting, because know that I think of it, you're right, I can't think of him usinging a fast setting. It reminds me of a little deep Purple band some fellow musos and I threw together for some fun, and to stretch our chops...sometimes even playing original composition, or studio sessions...doesn't "challenge: us in a way that learning some stuff from the masters does. I am, of course, a big Jon Lord fan, and when my band mates joked if I'd be bringing a Leslie; there were surprised when I said "why? the songs we are doing from the early Gillan/Blackmore/Paice/Glover/Lord line up, he didn't use one! I still the effect in though, because later he started using them live after about 1971 or so. I am curious about his pedal that everyone swears by...this ventilator. It strike me as odd when companies discontinue great products! But, being keyboard players, we have seen this time and again throughout the years *sigh*... I wonder if they're new, smaller version, probably meant for guitar, will sounds as good, on average? Anyone tried one? The "mini" I think they're calling it, is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losendoskeys Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 Hmmm... I wonder if GC is clearing them out because they aren't able to sell them. Perhaps SK's are too much of a one-trick-pony for the typical GC cliental, even with their extra sounds. That would be my guess. The salesman said this one has been there for as long as he could remember. There are some minor scratches on the ends, but it's in excellent shape otherwise. I may end up buying the damn thing yet. For Gods sake do it Bill - you KNOW you want to.... Quote Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losendoskeys Posted January 9, 2014 Share Posted January 9, 2014 @ Bill W, That's a lovely staysail schooner in your avatar, are you a sailor? I am not. I took that picture on my honeymoon in Greece. ah...a traveller and a romantic. We'll make ye a honorary schoonerman! Tony banks only used the slow setting...that's interesting, because know that I think of it, you're right, I can't think of him usinging a fast setting. There is a debate as to whether that is true. Listen to the play out of Battle of Epping Forest. I'm not sure if it is v/c or FAST........but it isn't SLOW on its' own. R Alan Quote Yamaha CP70B;Roland XP30/AXSynth/Fantom/FA76/XR;Hammond XK3C SK2; Korg Kronos 73;ProSoloist Rack+; ARP ProSoloist; Mellotron M4000D; GEM Promega2; Hohner Pianet N, Roland V-Grand,Voyager XL, RMI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixpickle Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Just got my SK1 and I have to concur with some of what's being said about the noisy Extra Voices from a few pages back. The piano samples definitely carry some noise in them and I wouldn't be using them in a solo studio recording. That U007 Respect Piano preset is a prime example, but after a little EQ to remove the overt top end, it's not too bad. In a live pop/rock band set-up I don't think anyone is gonna notice, especially when you have a couple of noisy guitar amps in the mix. From all the extra voices, my favourite has to be the Yamaha CP80 sample, though it could use another velocity layer, it sounds like it only has 2 at the moment. Just curious, is there a way to put the Spring reverb pre Leslie sim on the SK1? If not, this seems to be a major oversight for Hammond and something that needs to be addressed at the next firmware update. I find it more authentic sounding when the Spring reverb gets the Leslie treatment as well. Cheers! Quote Hammond: E311, Aurora Classic, SK1, XM2c Yamaha: MOTIF XF7, MOX6, PSRA300 Kawai: MP11 KORG: SV1-76 Casio: PX5S Alesis: Vortex Novation: Impulse 61 AKAI: SynthStation 49, 25 Behringer: UMX610 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 There is only one reverb for both the organ and EVs so it can only be post the digital Leslie. Which doesn't work out well for spring reverb. It can be before or after the digital Leslie in the XK-3c and XK-1c. I think there must be a technical reason it can't be done or it would be available. Probably they would need a separate reverb for the organ and EVs to do it and it would cause reverbs to start and fade at odd points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixpickle Posted January 14, 2014 Share Posted January 14, 2014 Hey JMcS thanks for the fast reply. Yeah I thought it was strange too because I also have an XM2c module which does allow you to pre the reverb/Leslie combo. Oh hey while I'm at it, I cannot for the life of me find the MIDI switch that stops the SK1 from accepting program changes from another keyboard. Is this feature available? Quote Hammond: E311, Aurora Classic, SK1, XM2c Yamaha: MOTIF XF7, MOX6, PSRA300 Kawai: MP11 KORG: SV1-76 Casio: PX5S Alesis: Vortex Novation: Impulse 61 AKAI: SynthStation 49, 25 Behringer: UMX610 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted January 14, 2014 Author Share Posted January 14, 2014 Try different Templates/MIDI In choices. I don't remember if mine ignores program changes or I catch them before they get to the SK-1. Everything I use to control/play the SK-1 runs through a computer/MIDI Mapper first. I may have that filter them out. I'll check later or tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMcS Posted January 15, 2014 Author Share Posted January 15, 2014 I have my MIDI In set on Upper. With MIDI Receive Upper (Pg. 114 #16) set to Off program changes sent from a Peavey PC1600x do not change the selected Patch on the SK-1. If I change that setting to Ch. 1 they do. I can send LM drawbar changes from the PC1600x either way. Also, with that set to off the system lower manual still plays the SK-1's Upper manual and it responds to MIDI Expression control from the XK-3c. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixpickle Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hey thanks man! I'm gonna run through these settings on my SK when I get home from work. Cheers!! Quote Hammond: E311, Aurora Classic, SK1, XM2c Yamaha: MOTIF XF7, MOX6, PSRA300 Kawai: MP11 KORG: SV1-76 Casio: PX5S Alesis: Vortex Novation: Impulse 61 AKAI: SynthStation 49, 25 Behringer: UMX610 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeplemouth Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Hi guys, great thread! I have a problem with my SK1 and wonder if anyone here has had a similar issue. Sometimes when scrolling through the presets, my display becomes corrupted and the preset names become strings of weird characters. If I continue scrolling, the display eventually goes blank. The sound remains fine but the display stays blank until I turn the machine off and then back on. Also, when I try to play music through it using the onboard music player, the music plays fine for a few seconds then starts distorting. Has anyone else experienced these issues? I have not updated the machine with any of the software updates so the operating system version is the one that came bundled with the machine. Thanks Steeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyMoe Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I would start with ensuring you have the latest version of software.... Quote Montage 7, Mojo 61, PC-3, XK-3c Pro, Kronos 88, Hammond SK-1, Motif XF- 7, Hammond SK-2, Roland FR-1, FR-18, Hammond B3 - Blond, Hammond BV -Cherry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steeplemouth Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Yes Keymoe, of course, but the question still stands; has anyone else experienced these problems? If so, did a system update fix the problem? I'm living in Perth, Australia and we're currently hitting temperatures of 40+ degrees. Could high temperatures have something to do with this issue? I.e. could my machine be overheating? Thanks Steeps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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