OT: Heavy Drinkers Outlive Nondrinkers

[Steve Force]

I think each person has their own story. Genetics, learned behavior, chemical imbalances, stress, and many other things interact. And then there's the unavoidable personal responsibility for our actions and their effects.

 

 

[Magpel]

Coupla thoughts...

 

I must admit I CHEERED aloud a few years when I read a medical report that suggested the astringency of coffee did much to counteract the effects of alcohol on the liver. What a perfect, perfect universe, I thought...

 

It is medical fact that alcohol is good for the heart. People usually add "in moderation," but the doctor who authored the Mediterranean diet says, no, more is better for the heart...HOWEVER, at a certain point, alcohol's other deleterious effects outweigh the cardio benefit.

 

I drink a little too much for my own comfort. never having considered myself a "problem drinker," but always a drinker, I have noticed a tendency to lean on it in recent years, for a variety of reasons I won't go into.

 

Happy to report that, in my late forties, I am experiencing a gigging and all around musical personal renaissance--playing in three steadily working original bands, doing local session work, writing and recording songs, AND I never drink to cloudiness on a gig, or at least not until the second set of a shitty gig...

[Cygnus64]

I think each person has their own story. Genetics, learned behavior, chemical imbalances, stress, and many other things interact. And then there's the unavoidable personal responsibility for our actions and their effects.

 

 

 

 

That's actually a pretty fascinating thing for me. My family has the "gene" (although my parents aren't drinkers), and many uncles, cousins, brother, me, etc. have had serious drinking problems. However, all of that really doesn't matter if you're not willing to be responsible for your actions. It took me a long time to learn that.

[Ian Benhamou]

After working 10 years in bars and restaurants as a waiter/bartender/manager I've built up quite a tolerance for alcohol.

 

Nevertheless, I've never been a problem drinker. I drink everyday, usually 1-2 glasses of wine with my dinner. For special dinners I'll have a cocktail beforehand and a liqueur after my espresso.

 

On a bar gig, I typically drink 2-3 pints of beer the whole night, that includes setup and tear-down time, so over the course of 5-6 hours.

 

Any coroporate events gig, musical theater or live venue type gig I don't touch alcohol until the gig is over. For that I want to be as lucid as possible and need complete focus and attention.

[Marzzz]

I can't drink too much- after two I usually fall asleep!

[Eric Iverson]

And falling asleep on gigs is frowned upon!

Hopefully the AUDIENCE doesn't fall asleep.....

[NewImprov]

I'm a moderate drinker, outside of gigging, I will have a beer maybe every other day, wine with dinner occasionally, that sort of thing. A couple of years ago, I started paying serious attention to my drinking behavior on gigs, and cut back considerably. The impetus for this largely came from one gig when my band was on the road in a small town in California. On our first set, the club was pretty empty, and one patron, trying to ingratiate himself with the band, sent up several rounds of shots. Needles to say, we were pretty loaded by the second set. By then, the club had really filled up, and we had a great audience, but I could tell that we were playing sloppy. Ever since then I have limited myself to one beer on gigs, and drinking a lot of water to stay hydrated.

 

I began to really pay attention to how my band members playing was affected by alcohol over the course of the night, and I really didn't like what I was seeing/hearing. I really worry about the road that some of them are on. I recently left that band, after 8 years of pretty intense gigging and touring, and this was a factor in the decision, though not the only one. Also, I have gotten pretty fed up with the alcoholic culture that you see so much of from playing in bars. At the end of the gig, when I'm done playing and can relax and socialize for a bit, the only people left in the bar are drunk, and, when you are relatively sober, there are few things as uninteresting as drunken conversation.

 

 

[Adan]

If I'm playing any kind of important gig with a band, I'll have at most a couple drinks over the course of the evening. Most corporate gigs, you're not supposed to drink at all, and I don't have a problem with that.

 

I'm currently playing a weekly 5-hour piano gig in a bar that makes excellent cocktails, and free drinks are part of the deal. This is really challenging me, because I like to drink when I play those kinds of gigs. The challenge is how to pace myself so that I'm still lucid enough in hour #5. I put the tunes I'm still learning in my first set, and I know best in my last set, that helps.

 

I suppose, if I have a problem, it's as a social mini-binge drinker. I have alcohol in my home and I never touch it unless there's guests. I just don't feel the urge.

[Adan]

From the article:

 

controlling for nearly all imaginable variables

I'd like to see a list please.

 

For example, what if it turns out that most non-drinkers eat more sugar? Did they study that? I don't know; it didn't mention that in the article. But as we know, sugar has all sorts of health risks when consumed in high doses. Most people habitually eat some foods. What eating habits tend to develop in teetotalers?

 

Did the study follow people who abstain from alcohol but who practice other forms of stress reduction, such as meditation and self-hypnotism? If so, how did they fare?

 

Best,

 

Geoff

 

I had similar thoughts, because basically, I just can't buy into what this study is trying to conclude. But I don't have time to do a meta-analysis.

[Bill H.]

All I know is that if I hadn't stopped drinking I would be dead by now the way I was going at it.

 

I've got to say though, that of all the male musicians I've worked with over the years (and there have been well over 100) I can count on one hand the number who could drink responsibly (where it didn't noticeably affect their playing) if they were drinking on a regular basis at work.

 

The women on the other hand could pull it off. But they could all stop at one or at the most two - and spread out if two.

 

 

[JeffLearman]

The key to everything is moderation.

You'll have to amend that to "most things" if you want to be consistent. ;-)

[ITGITC]

The key to everything is moderation.

You'll have to amend that to "most things" if you want to be consistent. ;-)

 

THIS HAS LEARJEFF WRITTEN ALL OVER IT.

 

Thanks Jeff. That made me smile.

 

Tom

 

[JeffLearman]

The study only applies to heavy drinkers who first make it to the age of 55. My guess is that enough of the stupid drinkers are weeded out by that time! I'd be willing to bet that a full-life longitudinal study would not show a benefit to heavy drinking.

 

Interesting, in any case.

[JeffLearman]

Thanks Jeff. That made me smile.

My pleasure. :-D We're overdue for a drink! However, I'll be out of town next two weeks. I'll call you when I get back.

 

Maybe I can post a pic from the Eiffel Tower. Dunno how I might manage to get a keyboard to play up there ...

[Cygnus64]

The key to everything is moderation.

You'll have to amend that to "most things" if you want to be consistent. ;-)

 

1. I'm a really inconsistent person.

 

2. I'm not so sure that it needs amended. One can do anything too much: work too hard, exercise too much, make too much money. You might say that one can't love too much, but then you get all smothery.

[allan_evett]

 

.... and, when you are relatively sober, there are few things as uninteresting as drunken conversation.

 

 

Been at that table, after a gig, far too many times....

[marino]

A dear friend, exactly my age, died a few months ago, of liver cancer related mostly to drinking, plus occasional heavy drugs. It was so horrible to watch such a creative, intelligent and life-loving person fading away. He wasn't a 'loser' by any means... he had built, and sustained, *two* great families, a few houses, had been a musician, musical instrument maker, restaurant manager/owner, always ready to launch into new adventures with enthusiasm.

But the heavy drinking killed him. Really, no further comments are coming to mind right now.

 

As for me, I got duodenal ulcer at 21, mostly from drinking too much, eating too little, and generally abusing my body. Now that I'm middle aged and then some, I learned that it doesn't have to be one thing or another. A glass of wine here, a pint of beer there, or even some other recreational plants occasionally, are ok and can make life easier and funnier - unless you're ill, of course. But they're nothing more than this - something that makes you feel good for a little while, like a good joke, or a good song heard from the radio.

 

If you try to increase quantities of any external element in the hope to increase your pleasure or relief, it just doesn't work like that, and it starts to kill you.

Tonight was another proof of that. I went to dinner to some friends' home, to watch the video of a show/concert that we did last month... well, I enjoyed a couple glasses of *excellent* wine while eating - but when after dinner everybody started with heavy alcholics, I had to stop after the first little sip.... the stuff was *great*, mean you, but it was just too much, and a bell rang in my head.

 

So I learned moderation; but I don't think I could ever be vegetarian, of live in any way within (self-)imposed limits. I like to be omnivore, in life and music as well.

 

 

[stevie b]

So I learned moderation; but I don't think I could ever be vegetarian, of live in any way within (self-)imposed limits. I like to be omnivore, in life and music as well.

 

Very estute statement. This should be my sig.

 

I like a deluxe pizza, but in moderation.

 

 

[Jim Alfredson]

I had half a Blue Moon yesterday and I was buzzed. Shows you what kind of "drinker" I am. That was the first beer I've had in probably a month or two.

 

My dad was an alcoholic. He died at the age of 67 of heart disease brought about by extreme alcoholism. I miss him every day.

[rod76]

I'm just glad I woke up out of it

 

Alleluia

[Dave Pierce]

Great discussion in this thread. It's a topic near and dear to my heart. My family is rife with alcoholism. I have watched many relatives die young, almost always due to alcohol (sometimes with other drugs thrown in as an accelerant). It's sad to watch.

 

Moderation is good for those who can do it. Some people simply can't handle alcohol at all. A drink starts the phenomenon of craving, and they are off to the races. For their friends and family it can be baffling and terrifying to watch.

 

At the age of 25 I concluded that I, like so many of my relatives, was one of those people. Because of this I don't drink at all.

 

As others have remarked, it's interesting being in bars at closing time as the only non-drinker. At times it's pretty amusing. Other times it's just tedious.

 

Lately I've been noticing the drinking of other musicians more and more, and it is getting harder and harder to tolerate for me. I really want to play with people who don't sully their experiences with excessive substances. I don't mind guys having a beer or two, that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about quantities that impair abilities. Not necessarily sloshing, stupid drunk; but drunk enough that the last set isn't as good as the first set.

 

It's frankly got me thinking about leaving my band right now. I'm only thinking about it at this stage. But I suppose all that is a topic for another thread.

 

--Dave

 

[Cliffk]

I really enjoy a glass or two of wine at the end of a week. On the several occasions I've overdone it, I've hated the effects of the day after enough to curb that kind of excess. There's nothing more wasteful than losing a full day to a hangover. Moderation's key.

[mcgoo]

There's a history of alchoholism on both sides of my family, and I always feel like I'm a binge away from headed down a crash course. I simply LOVE the taste of a good beer- it is my beverage of choice. I've found that I have to limit what I keep in the fridge. In the evening, if I open the fridge and there's a cold beer in there, chances are good that I'll grab it over a bottled water, a pop, a glass of milk or anything else. Therefore, I've learned not to keep beer in the fridge during the week and only 2 or 3 at a time on weekends.

 

I hope my college aged son, who is enjoying college life and all that goes with it, learns to accept this family trait & deal with it accordingly. Right now, he's far too much like I was at that age & it scares the heck out of me.

[Eric Iverson]

Quote from Dave Pierce:

 

Moderation is good for those who can do it. Some people simply can't handle alcohol at all. A drink starts the phenomenon of craving, and they are off to the races. For their friends and family it can be baffling and terrifying to watch.

---------------------------------

Eric here: why, oh why, can't we crave things that are good for us??

OK, maybe craving solitude isn't such a bad thing, now and then... just don't bring along a keg of beer!

[Bill H.]

Moderation is good for those who can do it. Some people simply can't handle alcohol at all. A drink starts the phenomenon of craving, and they are off to the races. For their friends and family it can be baffling and terrifying to watch.

 

Yeah for alcoholics like myself there is simply no such thing as moderation. I don't know what happens. I consider myself a reasonable guy who can exercise a considerable amount of control over just about everything except one - alcohol. If I take one drink I can't stop until I pass out.

 

One of the hardest things to do in early sobriety was stop playing music. I had melded playing and drinking into one experience, and it took over a year of sobriety before I could safely play the keyboards again without wanting a drink at the same time. It was two years before I felt comfortable enough to play in lounges again. Fortunately I had the greatest sponsor I could have hoped for. He was watching me like a hawk.

 

As others have remarked, it's interesting being in bars at closing time as the only non-drinker. At times it's pretty amusing. Other times it's just tedious

 

You know you meet all kinds of drinkers when you are a musician. The blowhards are annoying to the max, but there are other types who are quite tolerable.

 

The women always get real flirty which can be fun. But you gotta watch out for the boyfriend around the corner.

[Cygnus64]

Eric here: why, oh why, can't we crave things that are good for us??

 

There is a theory that people like alcoholics are actually allergic to alcohol. I took an allergy test many years ago, and it came back that I was allergic to nightshades (Potatoes, Tobacco, tomatoes, cayenne pepper, etc) and alcohol. I LOVE those things. I have no idea if any of it is true, the doctor was a Kinesiologist, and those guys can be out there.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applied_kinesiology

[MAJUSCULE]

Being around drunks without being one is a real educational experience.

 

I am not yet legal, but I did bus tables in a mexican restaurant on the main drag for several months. It's the kind of place where people go to pre-drink, although they sometimes stay for the whole night. The signature drink is a shot of tequila with margarita mix, followed by a coronita tipped in. I made fantastic money (The tips are the best part of the drunks.) and worked with some great people, but the customers got to be too much. I ended up quitting because I just couldn't deal with the assholes and the late hours. Particularly my last night, the one table of jerks really justified my decision. Our waitress couldn't even walk down the row anymore, they were so abusive.

 

Eric here: why, oh why, can't we crave things that are good for us??

 

One of my best munchie sessions was at the Edmonton Folk Festival, alternating between almonds and grapes. Salty, sweet, salty, sweet... Very, very enjoyable, not to mention that I felt much better than if I had gone to 7-Eleven or McDonald's.

[Michelle ggurl]

1. So how many of you drink before (or during) a gig?

 

I generally don't. Often band members will get drink allowances/tickets, and in a pub I play on occasion I will use one ticket and drink one pint on break. At a wine bar I will drink a glass when I'm done for the night and tearing down. Other than that, I don't drink anything but water usually. If my husband or some friends come to see me play, I sometimes give my drink tickets away to them.

 

I hate being buzzed while playing because I get mad at myself for messing up or playing not as well. Playing great, to me, is a natural high better than any booze buzz. Doesn't mean I'm always feeling like I'm on it as much as I want to be when sober, but at least I have a shot at reaching that state. If I'm buzzed, mmm, pretty much guaranteed I won't get there.

 

On another note, it is always sad to hear of loss of life caused by substance abuse, and I'm sorry to hear about the recent losses some of you have experienced.

 

FWIW I grew up in an Italian-American family, and my grandparents were old-school. I was introduced to wine at dinner at a young age ... I even remember my great-grandmother (who lived to be 105) scolding us kids about drinking milk with pasta dinner, because, "milk ruins the sauce!" One of my cousins jokes that to this day she is "scarred" by that and must drink wine with tomato sauce. My family is fortunate enough to not have any known alcoholism in the family ... genetics and behavior both play a part, I am sure.

[ITGITC]

FWIW I grew up in an Italian-American family, and my grandparents were old-school. I was introduced to wine at dinner at a young age ... I even remember my great-grandmother (who lived to be 105) scolding us kids about drinking milk with pasta dinner, because, "milk ruins the sauce!" One of my cousins jokes that to this day she is "scarred" by that and must drink wine with tomato sauce.

 

What a great story!

 

That made my day - Thanks Michelle!

[Michelle ggurl]

The key to everything is moderation.

You'll have to amend that to "most things" if you want to be consistent. ;-)

 

"Everything in moderation ... including moderation," I've been saying that for decades. Great minds ...